It's weird when you say something sensible. It throws me off.
This is exactly what I'm expecting. I think people who are expecting Catherine-level cutscenes for everything are in for a nasty surprise.
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Persona Community Thread: The Butterfly Effect
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It's weird when you say something sensible. It throws me off.
This is exactly what I'm expecting. I think people who are expecting Catherine-level cutscenes for everything are in for a nasty surprise.
TurnipFritters
Member
P5 also needs to have actual dungeons with actual layouts instead of the hot mess in P3 and P4, because seriously. Also if you want to liven dungeons up figure out a way to do so that doesn't devolve into "GO FIND KEY."
Ideally demons instead of Shadows, but that won't be happening so: You should be able to see what a Shadow is outside of combat. Like instead of BLOB or FLOATING BLOB you should be able to see if it's one of those statue thingies or a tank or whatever. Maybe make it so they appear as BLOB or FLOATING BLOB until you've fought it a few times or had it properly analyzed and then you can see what it really is when you're running around the dungeon.
Get rid of the support unit because they're annoying and pointless (this won't happen because they've even added one in SMT4). I'd much rather have the active party commenting on the battle.
Also kill all robots, stop the dating sims, etc etc.
Ideally demons instead of Shadows, but that won't be happening so: You should be able to see what a Shadow is outside of combat. Like instead of BLOB or FLOATING BLOB you should be able to see if it's one of those statue thingies or a tank or whatever. Maybe make it so they appear as BLOB or FLOATING BLOB until you've fought it a few times or had it properly analyzed and then you can see what it really is when you're running around the dungeon.
Get rid of the support unit because they're annoying and pointless (this won't happen because they've even added one in SMT4). I'd much rather have the active party commenting on the battle.
Also kill all robots, stop the dating sims, etc etc.
buddha0991
Member
TurnipFritters
Member
No, not like that.
buddha0991
Member
Course not man.
I felt some dungeons in P1 and 2 were pretty ok, but fuck Kama/Karma Palace
TurnipFritters
Member
The Persona series has never had strong dungeon design, but I expect more from a game in 2013 (or 2015 when it is finally released) than ones from the late nineties.
buddha0991
Member
yet somehow games released in 2008 have much worse dungeon designs to games released in 1996
TurnipFritters
Member
Which games are these.
Supermanisdead
Member
buddha0991
Member
Persona 4 man.....at least 4 wasn't 3's dungeons, so damn bland.
Why do people want the return of demons in Persona 5? Thematically, what do they serve? One of the reasons I prefer Shadows to Demons is because they actually make sense in that world instead of having demons in places that make no sense in P2 like in the music store or the TV studio where they apparently roam around, and no one cares. In P1 maybe it felt a bit more like the town was actually being invaded with people going in hiding and stuff, but it was almost irrelevant in Persona 2 aside from a few passing mentions of "hey, there are demons now."
buddha0991
Member
Demon's are not visible to normal humans in Persona 2.
TurnipFritters
Member
If the random dungeon had been an optional thing, for fun (sort of like the Bomb Shelter/Factory/Ruins/Demon Mountain in older games), that would have been ok, but making it The Entire Game is super boring.
GameBryo isn't a stable engine. It was probably fine for Catherine because that game exists in a pretty fine bottle, but for something as lengthy and variable-focused as a Persona game they shouldn't want to use that and I'd be a bit sad to hear about it if they did.
Index licensed the PhyreEngine a couple of years ago. I'm pretty certain P5's engine is derived from that. Interesting note: That engine is for Sony hardware.
Hey, guys. I'm back
Are you sure? Because I can think of a few moments in P2 where people are clearly seeing them or running away from them.
Or maybe I'm actually thinking more of P1. Either way, I do not want the return of demons in Persona. There's Devil Survivor or the main SMT series for that.
TurnipFritters
Member
It's because Shadows, as they currently exist, put NES games to shame with their palette swapping. Also they're kind of boring?
You guys seem to be missing the point of Persona 3 and 4's dungeons.
The dungeons are there to break up the social segments, and vice-versa. Everything about them is meant to be accessible, quick, and reusable over the stretch of the game. SMT's dungeons have always been corridors, so they condensed it literally down to just that, which allowed them to stretch the dungeons to be a reasonable size, whilst putting the main focus on content that players would actually remember. It's not like DDS and Nocturne had amazing dungeon designs, and they were much more of a focal point in those games.
It's all about feasibility.
Also, you're wrong about Gamebryo. It's a perfectly stable engine. I think they just wanted something that they had built specifically for Persona.
The dungeons are there to break up the social segments, and vice-versa. Everything about them is meant to be accessible, quick, and reusable over the stretch of the game. SMT's dungeons have always been corridors, so they condensed it literally down to just that, which allowed them to stretch the dungeons to be a reasonable size, whilst putting the main focus on content that players would actually remember. It's not like DDS and Nocturne had amazing dungeon designs, and they were much more of a focal point in those games.
It's all about feasibility.
Hey, guys. I'm back
Also, you're wrong about Gamebryo. It's a perfectly stable engine. I think they just wanted something that they had built specifically for Persona.
I'll give you the fact that there's definitely a need for more variety in their designs. Then again, demons would just be Personas as enemies and that wouldn't be much better.
TurnipFritters
Member
Maybe people would find them more memorable if they weren't so dull.
TurnipFritters
Member
Guys. You're missing the point of the dungeons. They're just meant to pad out games that are already far too long, and no one gives a shit about them anyway, so why bother with actual good design?
buddha0991
Member
Flux I was thinking of Devil Summoner Raidou where the demons aren't visible to normal people. Thing is that Sumaru is already a crazy, twisted place, with rumors becoming real left and right and shit keeps going down.
TurnipFritters
Member
Demons being invisible was fine in Raidou 2, but in the first game you're constantly fighting enemies while you run around crowded streets and it's kind of dumb. But that's ok, Raidou 1 is kind of a bad game.
I love the long length of Persona games and I hope Persona 5 is an 80-100 hour experience. However, I also would want the dungeons to not feel like parts I need to slog my way through. I liked how in Tartarus the environment changed and the music was elevated for each passing section. The aesthetic design improved in Persona 4 with distinct themes and look based on the person's psyche as well as lines of dialogue as you climbed stairs to add a bit to the narrative. Persona 5 will no doubt improve things even further, and I hope to the point where I actively enjoy going through the dungeons instead of feeling like they're only a necessity for me to experience more of the story.
we.are.the.armada
Member
Yeah, my thoughts as well. I'm loving SJ right now and I want something between it and P4 with that rogue-like nature of Tartarus. Also, challenge dungeons would be pretty neat if they nail a perfect rogue-like set up.
TurnipFritters
Member
P5's dungeons will be Lolo-esque, mirroring the "puzzle dungeon" concept pioneered in Catherine.
The Medusa and Don Medusa enemies will be modeled after whichever SLinks you have reversed.
The Medusa and Don Medusa enemies will be modeled after whichever SLinks you have reversed.
Catherine looks good but I have no doubt they'll make P5 look even better. Catherine was just a test game after all.
My ideal graphical style would be the one closest to the pic I posted.
Also, do you guys think they'll get rid of portrait scenes (the standard talking scenes) in P5 entirely or will they mix portraits with real-time cutscenes?
They said they've developed a new in-house engine for P5.
I don't think they have a battle narrator/supporter in SMT4? Just the other characters can help you in battle sometimes I think. We don't know much about that aspect yet.
buddha0991
Member
Hey, guys. I'm back
Good to have you back dude!
Did they ever actually say this? All I remember is Hashino saying it was a small project so that the team didn't get burned out on Persona.
TurnipFritters
Member
It's almost guaranteed to be a mix. They might pull a Raidou and make the portraits high quality models that you only really see from the chest up through.
I don't know if she chats you up in battle, but Burroughs definitely talks to you in dungeons. We've seen her warning the hero about strong demons in the area in trailers.
They'll definitely keep portraits.
I want to say they did because that's what I noted to myself, but I can't actually find them saying this, so perhaps that's just our interpretation given that it was a project outside of Persona.
I'm not certain about portraits or not.
Probably won't respond much. I'm finally playing Rising (rented it) and having a blast.
That's why I'm saying half and half. Half randomized, half structured. Persona 4 kinda did that, but it arsed it pretty bad seeing as they removed a lot of the random elements that Persona 3 had and it's structured floors were too far and few.
Welcome back! Don't go getting banninated again this time. :|
That's why I'm saying half and half. Half randomized, half structured. Persona 4 kinda did that, but it arsed it pretty bad seeing as they removed a lot of the random elements that Persona 3 had and it's structured floors were too far and few.
Hey, guys. I'm back
Welcome back! Don't go getting banninated again this time. :|
There's this:
http://andriasang.com/como4z/flying_get/
Think I read some other stuff too. I'll see later but the way it's worded in that article makes it seem like they wanted to experiment first before P5. But Index did say they have future plans for Catherine so it should be its own thing too.
I don't take that at all from the article.
Rather, it sounds like they wanted to experiment but not as a way to serve Persona 5 directly.
Go with more animated portraits. They started having the lips move thing in Arena, which is ok, now put some more animations in it.
More expressive models than the p3 and p4 games had with this would be a great combo. Just more animations in general.
Used to like the idea of random generated dungeons. Still do, though they're the weakest parts of p3/4, so either revamp how they do them or just have set ones with good layouts.
More expressive models than the p3 and p4 games had with this would be a great combo. Just more animations in general.
Used to like the idea of random generated dungeons. Still do, though they're the weakest parts of p3/4, so either revamp how they do them or just have set ones with good layouts.
Yuck, nope. The Arena lip animations just look silly. I like the static shots much more.
That's not what I take from it. It doesn't look or feel like an experiment, and the only experience I can see it giving them is experience with superior animation rigs and possibly ZBrushing models for the artists, and coding better shaders for the programmers? I mean, in terms of mechanics, Catherine could be a PS2 game.
cj_iwakura
Member
I like P3's dungeon style for the most part, but because it works for that game. It'd never work for the likes of P2.
That said, P2's map-the-entire-dungeon quests are hell, but the rewards are so good.
That said, P2's map-the-entire-dungeon quests are hell, but the rewards are so good.
TurnipFritters
Member
Oh yeah, another thing:
Some sort of visible markers above a quest giver's head. I don't think P4 had this in it (IIRC the only markers were for SLinks), but it's something that's desperately needed. Ideally quests would also auto-resolve like in Xenoblade.
Some sort of visible markers above a quest giver's head. I don't think P4 had this in it (IIRC the only markers were for SLinks), but it's something that's desperately needed. Ideally quests would also auto-resolve like in Xenoblade.
It looked silly because it was just cardboard cutouts with motor-boat lips. Make them actually lip sync, and convey emotion in the face, not just the base portrait changing based on the emotion they're feeling. As in, animate them, not a very very small part of them in a meaningless fashion.
If they do that, and have models that move with how they should based on what's happening, you don't necessarily have to have models that look as good at Catherine's all the time in every scene.
If they do that, and have models that move with how they should based on what's happening, you don't necessarily have to have models that look as good at Catherine's all the time in every scene.
Completely infeasible.
Probably, but it's next gen, so why not?
I do wonder which would be more work: How I'm saying or animating everything like Catherine did. Catherine was a beauty of a game, but I worry that no game would be long enough with having it portrayed like Catherine was.
Haha, what does this even mean?
Either way, lip syncing every conversation with 2D animation would be an insane amount of work.
TurnipFritters
Member
Lip sync would not be economically feasible given the amount of dialogue in a Persona title. Actually animating the shifts in emotion would be ok though, rather than the portraits blinking out of existence for a second like they do now. I mean, N1 did it for D4, and those guys hate spending money on anything new.
It's not infeasible because of the technology, it's infeasible because of the sheer manpower it'd require to look good and not look like Toki Tori or whatever. >_>;
Static portraits please. It's isn't even a matter of whether moving mouths or more directed scenes with 3D models are harder - portraits with moving mouths looks tacky and defeats the very purpose of using portraits.
I hope they keep the portraits because it lets the voice work breathe; it moves at it's own pace because it doesn't need to sync to any sort of animation which almost automatically results in better acting across the board.
I hope they keep the portraits because it lets the voice work breathe; it moves at it's own pace because it doesn't need to sync to any sort of animation which almost automatically results in better acting across the board.
TurnipFritters
Member
Toki Tori is an awesome game about a platforming bird. You're thinking of Toki Towa, a game about hand drawn animes.
Oh, yup. I always get those two mixed up. Toki Towa is baaaad and it's developers should feel bad too.
TurnipFritters
Member
Haha oh my god look at that animation. e: I guess it's faithful to how low budget and choppy animation is in harem animes.
.gif)
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