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Persona Community Thread: The Butterfly Effect

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R

Risette

A Good Citizen
Inorigo said:
Oh, they've definitely been gearing up to do that, yeah. I genuinely think some of that stuff will get play, if not outright take-off though. Everybody loves to say, "Who watches TV?!" and it's like, gee I dunno, everybody keeping cable providers well-funded? I don't think TV is a gimmick like voice or notion control, but a mainstay, despite the rise of streaming services.

I don't agree with their connection policy and this awfully dream-y sounding cloud business, but the entertainment stuff is more than likely going to find an audience. I don't think that's any sort of bold claim.

Edit: For the record I don't like or agree with the vast majority of what they're saying and how the console functions. I've been excited for both and I'm leaning toward the PS4. What I'm not comfortable/ready to do is lambaste them and swear off the machine altogether in the first week when I really don't even know if there are games on it I want. I don't want E3 to come and change my tune in a way that isn't genuine. I don't want to be a hypocrite. I wanna know everything I can and be sure.

If they were both on the market today? I'd get a PS4 without question. As it stands, I can't imagine I'm not gonna get that one first, anyway. Just clarifying. There's s lot of vicious "Well, you're a corporate apologist!" flying around. I'm not. Jumping to conclusions online isn't my thing.
Click to expand...
I don't think there's a market for the media features. Microsoft put the cart before the horse.

The media features on 360 are only widely used because people already bought it as a gaming box. There is no market for a high-end media box, there are: a) people who want to play games and buy expensive hardware that ends up covering media features anyways, and b) people who do not want to play games and buy a media box that costs like $50-100.

There's an excellent post that Burai made recently, in addition to this excellent post from today:
Burai said:
It doesn't matter whether people are disconnecting or not. Remember when Nintendo was crowing about how awesome it is to play games and surf the web on the Wii U Gamepad whilst someone else watches TV in the same room, even though people had been doing these things for years on tablets, phones, laptops and Game Boys? Well Microsoft are selling you something even dumber.

They are selling you the ability to watch TV on your TV. And not some crazy, new fangled TV that will shake up the way we watch things and throw the cable and dish companies under the bus, but the cable TV that you already have, from the box that you already have.

When Apple released the iPod and the iTunes Music Store, they irreversibly changed the way we listen to, buy and store music. This TV function would be what would happen if the iPod was a way to keep playing your same CDs, but you had to already have a Discman to use as a source. The iPod would be a dumb terminal that did nothing but sit there, displaying ads and sending your listening habits back to their advertisers.

Cos that's really all this is. Microsoft want to know what you watch on cable because it's worth advertising revenue to them.
Click to expand...
That sort of sums it up.
 
Y

Young Magus

Junior Member
All dis talk bout Xbone, apathetic as a whole. Quit Xbox after 2nd RROD. :p

As for the name origins:
Magus= Chrono Trigger
Ken= Prefix of 1st name
 
S

Squire

Banned
Risette said:
I don't think there's a market for the media features. Microsoft put the cart before the horse.

The media features on 360 are only widely used because people already bought it as a gaming box. There is no market for a high-end media box, there are: a) people who want to play games and buy expensive hardware that ends up covering media features anyways, and b) people who do not want to play games and buy a media box that costs like $50-100.

There's an excellent post that Burai made recently, in addition to this excellent post from today:

That sort of sums it up.
Click to expand...

Good posts; fair enough.

I think a lot of kids will want it for games and families/parents will use the media stuff. Is that fair?
 
R

Risette

A Good Citizen
Inorigo said:
Good posts; fair enough.

I think a lot of kids will want it for games and families/parents will use the media stuff. Is that fair?
Click to expand...
Maybe. I think it'll be a cataclysmic failure with no market, but I am biased (because that is also what I'm hoping happens) and that is where our views differ. :p
 
M

Meia

Member
I still don't get making TV out to a big deal when there's tons of alternatives out there now.


You show off a console for the first time, yet don't talk about games. It's silly. Maybe that rumor of them being 6 months behind with them was on the mark?
 
J

Jintor

Member
They're saving the games blowout for E3, it's fair enough. Maybe not the best choice for a new console announcement though. But if they slam dunk the games, then the punters might change their minds.
 
S

Squire

Banned
Risette said:
Maybe. I think it'll be a cataclysmic failure with no market, but I am biased (because that is also what I'm hoping happens) and that is where our views differ. :p
Click to expand...

You're honest. I appreciate that.

That people that drive me up a wall are the ones that are already aggressively pro-Sony and were just laying in wait to hear something they can tear down. And acting like that isn't the case. They made their minds up before the console even entered the conversation.

Not that I suspect any of you guys in particular are like that.

Jintor said:
They're saving the games blowout for E3, it's fair enough. Maybe not the best choice for a new console announcement though. But if they slam dunk the games, then the punters might change their minds.
Click to expand...

Yeah, there was somebody in another thread who said debuting a game console and not centering on games is dumb marketing period. That's a great point. Doesn't really negate the fact that an expectation was set that the unveil wouldn't really be about games. Even if MS hadn't been saying that, the writing was on the wall: hour-long presentation broadcast on Spike TV. No, you definitely wouldn't see extremely core-focused things like JRPGs or whatever here. I would think that's common sense. It wasn't good, it was just obviously how things were going to go.
 
R

Risette

A Good Citizen
Inorigo said:
You're honest. I appreciate that.

That people that drive me up a wall are the ones that are already aggressively pro-Sony and were just laying in wait to hear something they can tear down. And acting like that isn't the case. They made their minds up before the console even entered the conversation.

Not that I suspect any of you guys in particular are like that.
Click to expand...
I think the whole console business is on the way out, so I'm definitely not pro-Sony. They're just the king of losers now. :>

The only company I'm a fan of is Apple.
 
J

jello44

Chie is the worst waifu
You had Sony's little conference and people complained WAR IS TEH CONZOLE ZONY OMG

Then Microsoft's little conference, where they show the console, with a few bells and whistles and people are like ;OMG WAR R TEH GAMEZ MS GOSH

Right now, for me, it's PS4 first. They've shown me games that I'm interested in.

XB1 has Forza, which I get a complete hard-on for Turn 10. I want to see what they have in store at e3.

Risette said:
The only company I'm a fan of is Apple.
Click to expand...

Shocking.
 
M

Meia

Member
I can understand saving games til later, but Microsoft doesn't realize apparently how damaging their last few E3 events were that did nothing but this entertainment/kinect garbage. All I saw that day was more of the same. :(


I don't want to see anyone fail, as competition is good. But sheesh.
 
S

Squire

Banned
I think everybody is PS4 first as Somy is putting gaming first; every facet of it.

I like my entertainment too though and I appreciate that functionality in my consoles. It's stuff I use. I'm open to hearing what MS has to say next and what games they have to show.
 
J

Jintor

Member
I'm a big fan of the idea that rampant speculation or reactions to these promo pieces isn't actually very important or meaningful.
 
cj_iwakura

cj_iwakura

Member
Inorigo said:
You're honest. I appreciate that.

That people that drive me up a wall are the ones that are already aggressively pro-Sony and were just laying in wait to hear something they can tear down. And acting like that isn't the case. They made their minds up before the console even entered the conversation.
Click to expand...

It's hard not to be in my shoes. Sony are the only developer that still creates region free consoles. It seems they're the most pro-consumer by a country mile.
 
S

Squire

Banned
Jintor said:
I'm a big fan of the idea that rampant speculation or reactions to these promo pieces isn't actually very important or meaningful.
Click to expand...

I'm a big fan of this post.

cj_iwakura said:
It's hard not to be in my shoes. Sony are the only developer that still creates region free consoles. It seems they're the most pro-consumer by a country mile.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, but you're kidding, right? The Vita is region-free on the most flimsy technicality possible. The PS4 is going to be region-locked. I'm not even entertaining the possibility of any other outcome.

You know Kyoufu? Yesterday he told me he tweeted Shu Yoshida about the PS4 being region-free a while back and Yoshida blocked him.
 
J

Jintor

Member
Venfayth said:
Reactions are important, otherwise how would you tell if someone is on your side?
Click to expand...

Well, it is fun as hell, I'll admit that. Love those Direct threads.

I just, well, I notice how much time I'm spending looking at these things when I could be reading more non-fiction or something because reading is rad
 
J

jello44

Chie is the worst waifu
Inorigo said:
I'm a big fan of this post.



I'm sorry, but you're kidding, right? The Vita is region-free on the most flimsy technicality possible. The PS4 is going to be region-locked. I'm not even entertaining the possibility of any other outcome.

You know Kyoufu? Yesterday he told me he tweeted Shu Yoshida about the PS4 being region-free a while back and Yoshida blocked him.
Click to expand...

haha really?

Ah well, no big deal. I don't import anyway, but that sucks for those that do, if it is region locked.
 
J

Jintor

Member
If I end up going to Japan next year with JET I'll end up getting the non region-locked console I guess.

of course I am talking about a PC

Think I can maintain PS+ in my region if I move?
 
C

CrazyTank940

Member
Inorigo said:
I'm a big fan of this post.



I'm sorry, but you're kidding, right? The Vita is region-free on the most flimsy technicality possible. The PS4 is going to be region-locked. I'm not even entertaining the possibility of any other outcome.

You know Kyoufu? Yesterday he told me he tweeted Shu Yoshida about the PS4 being region-free a while back and Yoshida blocked him.
Click to expand...

Eh, I've imported a game before (Max Anarchy), but Sega brought that upon themselves by delaying the game from july to Q1 2013 with no reason given. They forced my hand. That said, I doubt I'll have to import for the PS4 for reasons like that, so if it's region locked I won't mind.
 
R

Risette

A Good Citizen
Jintor said:
If I end up going to Japan next year with JET I'll end up getting the non region-locked console I guess.

of course I am talking about a PC

Think I can maintain PS+ in my region if I move?
Click to expand...
Why do you need a console or PC when you'll have arcades? Home platforms are D-rate gaming. They are only good for arcade ports.

Buy a handheld.
 
A

Astra

Member
Jintor said:
what's an arcade
Click to expand...

A relic of an age past where there were large machines on which to play Pac-Man. People would strive for the top score, so they could input their initials as ASS. Then some little kid would see that and it'd blow his mind.
 
D

Dantis

Member
My personal view is that what we've seen of the XBone sucks, and whilst it's all well and good people saying "Wait until E3! MS will blow us away!", I don't think they have the capacity to impress me with anything they could develop.
 
S

Squire

Banned
Dantis said:
My personal view is that what we've seen of the XBone sucks, and whilst it's all well and good people saying "Wait until E3! MS will blow us away!", I don't think they have the capacity to impress me with anything they could develop.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your mature insight. Really.
 
D

Dantis

Member
I'm kidding!

Here's my genuine opinion:

What they showed was terrible. No two ways about it. The features that they touted will go unnoticed by most players, I think. They can say "Plug your cable box into the back of your Xbox and switch between cable and games instantly!", but I just don't see it being useful unless you have a really short attention span. If I'm watching TV, I'm watching TV. I don't want to flick back and forth between Game of Thrones and Halo 5. Not to mention, if my cable box is plugged into my Xbox, the only way I can watch cable after that is through my Xbox.

PFFT. No chance.

I don't have any interest in voice commands, and I'd imagine most people will feel the same, particularly with some of the lovely accents you get in the UK. As far as surfing the web on my Xbox, I have a tablet. And a smartphone. And a laptop. I don't expect everyone to have all of these, but I feel like most people have at least one of them. I don't think I have a single friend who doesn't have a smartphone at the very least.

So then it comes down to the games. Most good games are multi-platform nowadays and the exclusives are generally coming from Sony and Nintendo. What MS could potentially show at E3 is a completely unknown quantity but those 15 exclusive titles they mentioned won't be 15 AAA games. We have Quantum Break and Forza, which honestly will probably be very good. Remedy are one of my favourite studios and Turn 10 are consistently strong. Then we have Ryse, which is Kinect enabled, so I feel like I can write that off. Kinect isn't for me and it never will be.

So that leaves us with twelve more unknown titles, but I cannot imagine what they could show that would impress me enough to overlook the other flaws with the system. This is Microsoft, and where Sony has Uncharted and God of war and Beyond, they have Gears of War and Halo and that's it and Halo won't be any time soon because Halo 4 was less than a year ago. To say that it's impossible for MS to impress someone like me at E3 is silly. To say it's even slightly likely is just as silly though. The products and services that they consistently put out don't align with my interests. I don't care for sports and I don't care for CoD. As someone who rents a lot of games also, their outrageous used games policy is an absolute killer. If I couldn't rent games, I'd be limited to like one game a month.

I don't think the Xbox One will fail. No chance. Various friends have already talked about how excited they were by the conference, so once Microsoft show something of actual substance, people are going to flip their shit.

But I don't think it will be the console for me. If they drop the forced Kinect usage, and drop their used games shit, then I could see myself buying one down the line. But until then, I'm out.
 
S

Squire

Banned
Well said.

I:

• Watch a reasonable amount of TV (so yes, I think that functionality is cool).
• Don't rent games
• Don't buy used games
• Like some MS IPs

I'll probably get a PS4 first. E3 could change things, but at this point everything big in year one (that's to my interest) will probably be multiplat and that's where most of my friends will be (like you guys).

But I'll have an XBO at some point. That's my realistic expectation.

Edit: I got that you were kidding, I was just kidding back! :p

Still, fair points; well said.
 
D

Dantis

Member
Inorigo said:
Edit: I got that you were kidding, I was just kidding back! :p

Still, fair points; well said.
Click to expand...

I figured, but I thought I should expand beyond my usual "This sucks, no explanation". People get passionate about these kinds of things and I like this thread and its users. I have no intention of actually upsetting anyone, particularly people I like. ;)
 
S

Squire

Banned
Dantis said:
I figured, but I thought I should expand beyond my usual "This sucks, no explanation". People get passionate about these kinds of things and I like this thread and its users. I have no intention of actually upsetting anyone, particularly people I like. ;)
Click to expand...

Thanks, man. I appreciate that. :)
 
M

Meia

Member
Dantis said:
I'm kidding!

Here's my genuine opinion:

What they showed was terrible. No two ways about it. The features that they touted will go unnoticed by most players, I think. They can say "Plug your cable box into the back of your Xbox and switch between cable and games instantly!", but I just don't see it being useful unless you have a really short attention span. If I'm watching TV, I'm watching TV. I don't want to flick back and forth between Game of Thrones and Halo 5. Not to mention, if my cable box is plugged into my Xbox, the only way I can watch cable after that is through my Xbox.

PFFT. No chance.

I don't have any interest in voice commands, and I'd imagine most people will feel the same, particularly with some of the lovely accents you get in the UK. As far as surfing the web on my Xbox, I have a tablet. And a smartphone. And a laptop. I don't expect everyone to have all of these, but I feel like most people have at least one of them. I don't think I have a single friend who doesn't have a smartphone at the very least.

So then it comes down to the games. Most good games are multi-platform nowadays and the exclusives are generally coming from Sony and Nintendo. What MS could potentially show at E3 is a completely unknown quantity but those 15 exclusive titles they mentioned won't be 15 AAA games. We have Quantum Break and Forza, which honestly will probably be very good. Remedy are one of my favourite studios and Turn 10 are consistently strong. Then we have Ryse, which is Kinect enabled, so I feel like I can write that off. Kinect isn't for me and it never will be.

So that leaves us with twelve more unknown titles, but I cannot imagine what they could show that would impress me enough to overlook the other flaws with the system. This is Microsoft, and where Sony has Uncharted and God of war and Beyond, they have Gears of War and Halo and that's it and Halo won't be any time soon because Halo 4 was less than a year ago. To say that it's impossible for MS to impress someone like me at E3 is silly. To say it's even slightly likely is just as silly though. The products and services that they consistently put out don't align with my interests. I don't care for sports and I don't care for CoD. As someone who rents a lot of games also, their outrageous used games policy is an absolute killer. If I couldn't rent games, I'd be limited to like one game a month.

I don't think the Xbox One will fail. No chance. Various friends have already talked about how excited they were by the conference, so once Microsoft show something of actual substance, people are going to flip their shit.

But I don't think it will be the console for me. If they drop the forced Kinect usage, and drop their used games shit, then I could see myself buying one down the line. But until then, I'm out.
Click to expand...


Not one thing here I disagree with. Throw in that the game Remedy showed wasn't Alan Wake 2, which to me is *almost* a system seller if it's truly exclusive this time, and yeah.


I bought a Vita strictly for Golden, I'm not against buying a system for a game or two. But they've shown no games, and they've had a history of doing this very thing for years now. That conference was a look at the inner workings of MS for me, where they still don't GET it. And now that it's time to pony up hundreds of dollars for support yeah no.


I'm a massive CoD player still, but that's only on PC where my guildmates all play, so xbox has no sway over me with that, and that's the only thing of "substance" they showed. Quotes because it had almost no gameplay, and had no point being shown in that early of a state. Maybe as a goof they could have shown Steel Battalion for Kinect, but that the new and improved Kinect actually made it work!
 
J

jello44

Chie is the worst waifu
And the funny thing is, despite of all the goofy things MS is doing with the Xbox One, it still sounds more appealing than a Wii U.
 
C

CrazyTank940

Member
jello44 said:
And the funny thing is, despite of all the goofy things MS is doing with the Xbox One, it still sounds more appealing than a Wii U.
Click to expand...

I dunno, I'd probably prefer a Wii U over the Microsoft TiVo. With 101, Bayonetta 2, and Smash, that's more appealing to me than any exclusive franchise Xbox has ever had.
 
S

Sophia

Member
jello44 said:
And the funny thing is, despite of all the goofy things MS is doing with the Xbox One, it still sounds more appealing than a Wii U.
Click to expand...

You can't possibly be fucking serious. This is a joke post right? Am I suppose to laugh?

I'm glad jello's just a joker and a comedian, I couldn't possibly believe there is someone in our community who'd take the rights-restricting Xbox One over The Wonderful 101, Smash Bros, Monolith Soft's X, and Mario.... You had me worried there for a second.
 
S

ShmeebAlina

Member
Deadpool940 said:
I dunno, I'd probably prefer a Wii U over the Microsoft TiVo. With 101, Bayonetta 2, and Smash, that's more appealing to me than any exclusive franchise Xbox has ever had.
Click to expand...

Same, it's all to do with taste in games. Add Monolith's new game, and the inevitable new 3D Mario and Zelda to that list and the Wii U's the one for me. With Playstation I'll do what I've done with every other gen and get a PS4 second hand in a few years time and catch up on the games I missed. Never been interested in Xbox *shrug*.
 
S

SloaneRisette

Member
jello44 said:
And the funny thing is, despite of all the goofy things MS is doing with the Xbox One, it still sounds more appealing than a Wii U.
Click to expand...

tumblr_ljqjh7kDjI1qbnmvx.gif


Are you alright Jello...?
 
J

jello44

Chie is the worst waifu
Sophia said:
You can't possibly be fucking serious. This is a joke post right? Am I suppose to laugh?

I'm glad jello's just a joker and a comedian, I couldn't possibly believe there is someone in our community who'd take the rights-restricting Xbox One over The Wonderful 101, Smash Bros, Monolith Soft's X, and Mario.... You had me worried there for a second.
Click to expand...

If they would get rid of that stupid tablet, then maybe I'd give it a second thought.

As of now, no, I'm not joking.
 
T

TWILT

Banned
Yeah, I prefer buying the console that doesn't force me to pay a fee whenever I want to borrow a friend's game or something.
 
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