You are honestly saying that the console that restricts your rights, will raise the price of games and adds features that you as a gamer don't care about is better than a silly tablet? Really?
C'mon Jello. You're not this foolish... :\
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Persona Community Thread: The Butterfly Effect
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You are honestly saying that the console that restricts your rights, will raise the price of games and adds features that you as a gamer don't care about is better than a silly tablet? Really?
C'mon Jello. You're not this foolish... :\
Actually, I'd disagree. They're both equally unappealing.
I don't buy used that much so that doesn't impact me and I don't care what games Nintendo is offering.
If that makes me foolish, then so be it.
Well, XB1 DOES have Forza, so that kinda tilts things in that direction.
It's not merely about used games. It's about the right to own your game. The ability to resell your games. To make private trade. The advantages that a console offers.
Plus the fact that the Japanese market isn't gonna support such a system anyhow, so you won't see MegaTen games on it.
PS4 has Drive Club, which looks better than Forza at the moment. Maybe my opinion will change of Forza once they actually show some gameplay footage.
buddha0991
Member
I hate everything
I rarely trade/sell my games too and I agree it isn't the best, but like I said it won't impact me as much as others.
But that's OK, that's why I'd be getting a PS4 first.
Hah, true. Drive Club looks phenomenal.
Though, seriously, at this point, I might just be getting a PS4 and only a PS4. I barely have the time to play games anymore as it is.
SloaneRisette
Member
Hear, hear.
We know, Spooky Ghost Dad
Remember, just because you rarely sell or trade games doesn't mean it won't impact you. You'll be affected the moment the price of a game stays up new, or Microsoft does some crazy policy on a game.
In a way, it's like a Zero–sum game. Nobody is unaffected. Everyone has to win or lose to balance it out.
And I'm going to end the discussion at that and not reply to Inorigo below because there are already a million threads on this.
There are people these things virtually don't effect as they don't engage in them.
What's up with this insinuation that you're an idiot if you prefer the Xbox? Everything comes down to games. There are people that will buy this console and won't have an issue with how it works. Is that not their prerogative?
Fight the good fight for the consumer or GTFO? Really?
So I just started FES. Talked to Igor a bit, and now I want to start fusing but I'm afraid. Is it safe to just screw around and see what I get? Or will I fuse two personas that are absolutely essential and break the rest of the game?
Also, if I fuse like say pixie, and then later in the card mini game she comes up again, can I get her again?
Edit: Hah, for a second after seeing this psot go up and looking at the posts above it I thought I must have posted in the wrong thread!
Also, if I fuse like say pixie, and then later in the card mini game she comes up again, can I get her again?
Edit: Hah, for a second after seeing this psot go up and looking at the posts above it I thought I must have posted in the wrong thread!
buddha0991
Member
Isn't drive club not actually a sim at heart?
Once the compendium unlocks, you can register them in your Compendium and then you can rebuy them if you fuse or dismiss them.
Personally, I say just experiment. Enjoy yourself. GO KER-RAZY.
If you fuse/dismiss a persona you can always get that persona back via shuffle time or the compendium, which will unlock later on.
Drive Club is more like PGR, from what I've heard.
That's fine with me, I loved PGR.
You can always re-obtain a Persona.The vast majority of them are obtainable through Shuffle time, and the ones that aren't can be fused to.
Don't ever fear fusion. Go at it. Eventually you'll get the compendium and be able re-obtain any Persona you've previously had too.
And this is why I ended the conversation there.
It is to my understand a Semi-simulation game, the same as Forza.
buddha0991
Member
You can always re-obtain a Persona.The vast majority of them are obtainable through Shuffle time, and the ones that aren't can be fused to.
Don't ever fear fusion. Go at it. Eventually you'll get the compendium and be able re-obtain any Persona you've previously had too.
And this is why I ended the conversation there.
It is to my understand a Semi-Sim game, the same as Forza.
Forza Motorsport (the 5 game series) is a sim, PGR and Forza Horizon (The one spinoff) are not
Forza Motorsport is Semi-Simulation, leaning towards the realism end, which is what I'm referring to. Drive Club is also Semi-simulation, but leaning towards the arcade end like Project Gotham Racing and Dirt 2.
Thanks guys! I can now fuse without fear of any dire repercussions.
Also, just out of curiosity, did they make p3p a lot easier? I decided to play the first few hours of p3p and fes to decide which one I want to go with and picked fes, but in both got to the second night of tartarus (where she says go to the first block) and in fes I only made it the third floor before everyone was tired and I had to bail but in p3p I was I think on floor 5 or 6 and still no one was tired but I left because she started telling me the fights were getting too hard.
Also, just out of curiosity, did they make p3p a lot easier? I decided to play the first few hours of p3p and fes to decide which one I want to go with and picked fes, but in both got to the second night of tartarus (where she says go to the first block) and in fes I only made it the third floor before everyone was tired and I had to bail but in p3p I was I think on floor 5 or 6 and still no one was tired but I left because she started telling me the fights were getting too hard.
BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
Junior Member
I thought forza was a sim that's kinda aimed at casuals. It's no PGR of course but it looks like it isn't super hard core like GT.
P3P is easier, yeah. Thanks to some changed mechanics + full party control. Nobody gets tired in P3P while in Tartarus, they only get tired once you leave.
I'm leaning towards handhelds right now; if someone took away my PC, Wii U, and PS3 for a few months, I don't think I'd notice with the amount I have to play on my handhelds.
I have a Wii U, and I'm confident Nintendo's first party will give me something to do on the system, even if it doesn't save it in the long run. I feel similarly about the Vita. 3DS is doing okay, though, and it's getting some of the games I'm very interested in playing.
PS4 is an unknown to me. Sony need to flesh it out more. I'm not saying I will buy it, but I'm also not saying I won't either. I'm still worried Sony will pull a major dick move and put me off the system like Microsoft have. Speaking of MS...
Xbone is... blegh. I don't think I've ever seen a more unappealing console launch in my life. I mean, the TV/entertainment features they've added that weren't in the Xbox 360 are dumb and uninspired, but I don't really think that's an issue; I just don't think anyone who didn't plan to buy a console in the first place is going to give a shit, which means it's about a less useful an addition to the console then the Wii U GamePad is. I also don't think HDMI passthrough is a remotely compelling function for people who want to play games. I'm of the view that if you lack the knowledge to use the Input function on your TV, you're probably not going to be playing games.
And I expect Samsung and other TV manufacturers will rip the voice control function off by next year, coupling it with their Smart TV functionality in the process, thus rendering all the TV passthrough features of the Xbone a complete waste of money.
And the new features that do have a modicum of sense to them make more sense being done on a tablet while the TV carries on playing, or I pause it to chat on Skype with my brother (I've tried doing the whole TV + Skype thing and it was a disaster, so merging them together on the Xbone is super stupid).
But as I said above, even if those features are useless, it doesn't matter; you can still distill the Xbone down to the games and still find value in it, but as someone who isn't very sentimental about most games (I'm very particular in my tastes, which means I blow through a lot of games very quickly, and re-sell them when I can), I find the lack of private resale value on the games I do own to be shit. GAME's trade-in prices are usually awful after the first week of release, yet the inflated prices they re-sell those games at has allowed a healthy pre-owned market to form on online auction sites, where the sellers get more for their games than selling to GAME, whilst the customer simultaneously pays less than buying through GAME. Xbone ruins that market.
Couple that with my direct experiences of Microsoft's first party (or lack thereof), and I just don't feel the Xbone will be a good investment in the long term. It may start out great, but if I picked up an Xbox One at launch, by the second or third year they will have bored me into buying a PS4 anyway due to the lack of games.
Plus, as an aside, I just love sharing things I love with other people. That's not possible on Xbone. It's a selfish ecosystem that's only going to encourage a narrow mainstream gaming culture that, whilst big in appeal, lacks the granularity I desire. Developers will be more conservative because gamers will be more conservative, and gamers will be more conservative because they don't want to risk buying a $60 game that sucks (due to the massively diminished resale value), and won't be able to easily share the games they love (or be easily exposed to new games that others think they'll like) due to the DRM shackles imposed on the product.
That may come across as a bit airy fairy liberal or whatever, but I do genuinely think I'm a passionate evangelist for things I love, and the Xbox One is pretty much the selfish antithesis of the culture of sharing that I grew up with in gaming. It's pretty much destroyed the whole aspect of sharing in games, and given us nothing of worth in return.
At any rate, if you couldn't already tell, I'm super bummed about the home console space in general. Usually it's post-E3 blues where I feel the games industry has committed to another 12 months of dreadful products, but all these early next-gen reveals have totally bummed me out on the hobby before E3 has even begun. I'm actually dreading the show itself...
I have a Wii U, and I'm confident Nintendo's first party will give me something to do on the system, even if it doesn't save it in the long run. I feel similarly about the Vita. 3DS is doing okay, though, and it's getting some of the games I'm very interested in playing.
PS4 is an unknown to me. Sony need to flesh it out more. I'm not saying I will buy it, but I'm also not saying I won't either. I'm still worried Sony will pull a major dick move and put me off the system like Microsoft have. Speaking of MS...
Xbone is... blegh. I don't think I've ever seen a more unappealing console launch in my life. I mean, the TV/entertainment features they've added that weren't in the Xbox 360 are dumb and uninspired, but I don't really think that's an issue; I just don't think anyone who didn't plan to buy a console in the first place is going to give a shit, which means it's about a less useful an addition to the console then the Wii U GamePad is. I also don't think HDMI passthrough is a remotely compelling function for people who want to play games. I'm of the view that if you lack the knowledge to use the Input function on your TV, you're probably not going to be playing games.
And I expect Samsung and other TV manufacturers will rip the voice control function off by next year, coupling it with their Smart TV functionality in the process, thus rendering all the TV passthrough features of the Xbone a complete waste of money.
And the new features that do have a modicum of sense to them make more sense being done on a tablet while the TV carries on playing, or I pause it to chat on Skype with my brother (I've tried doing the whole TV + Skype thing and it was a disaster, so merging them together on the Xbone is super stupid).
But as I said above, even if those features are useless, it doesn't matter; you can still distill the Xbone down to the games and still find value in it, but as someone who isn't very sentimental about most games (I'm very particular in my tastes, which means I blow through a lot of games very quickly, and re-sell them when I can), I find the lack of private resale value on the games I do own to be shit. GAME's trade-in prices are usually awful after the first week of release, yet the inflated prices they re-sell those games at has allowed a healthy pre-owned market to form on online auction sites, where the sellers get more for their games than selling to GAME, whilst the customer simultaneously pays less than buying through GAME. Xbone ruins that market.
Couple that with my direct experiences of Microsoft's first party (or lack thereof), and I just don't feel the Xbone will be a good investment in the long term. It may start out great, but if I picked up an Xbox One at launch, by the second or third year they will have bored me into buying a PS4 anyway due to the lack of games.
Plus, as an aside, I just love sharing things I love with other people. That's not possible on Xbone. It's a selfish ecosystem that's only going to encourage a narrow mainstream gaming culture that, whilst big in appeal, lacks the granularity I desire. Developers will be more conservative because gamers will be more conservative, and gamers will be more conservative because they don't want to risk buying a $60 game that sucks (due to the massively diminished resale value), and won't be able to easily share the games they love (or be easily exposed to new games that others think they'll like) due to the DRM shackles imposed on the product.
That may come across as a bit airy fairy liberal or whatever, but I do genuinely think I'm a passionate evangelist for things I love, and the Xbox One is pretty much the selfish antithesis of the culture of sharing that I grew up with in gaming. It's pretty much destroyed the whole aspect of sharing in games, and given us nothing of worth in return.
At any rate, if you couldn't already tell, I'm super bummed about the home console space in general. Usually it's post-E3 blues where I feel the games industry has committed to another 12 months of dreadful products, but all these early next-gen reveals have totally bummed me out on the hobby before E3 has even begun. I'm actually dreading the show itself...
buddha0991
Member
"I just don't like all the viciousness. It's uncalled for and unnecessary."
^I agree with this man
so many xbone topics everywhere, this is how I react to each of them
^I agree with this man
so many xbone topics everywhere, this is how I react to each of them
For me for consoles, the Xbox One probably isn't something I'd plan on buying, just due to a lack of exclusives that interests me, a bunch of features I don't want, and having to pay to do anything online. These could all change by E3, but for right now, yeah no.
Playstation 4 will have the games that do interest me, and I will get one eventually. Thankfully, because they decided to not do backwards compatibility, my first priority is to get a new PS3 to replace my old phatty one(maybe putting in a decently sized HDD as well so I never need to worry about replacing it again). Only thing that would change this is Persona 5 as a launch title, about as likely as Xbox Live Gold being free next-gen.
Nintendo I kind of have had it with now. Lack of an account system still shows how behind the times they truly are, and again this new system looks to be another case of "Buy our 2-3 games a year!" A 3DS XL right now would be a smarter purchase for me, so long as I avoid digital(which is a shame as Animal Crossing is certainly a game meant for digital).
PC will probably still be my main platform I'm thinking. Lack of JRPGs hurts, but that's why I have consoles anyway. Any non-JRPG I care about almost always ends up on the PC in a superior version. And then there's Occulus Rift, the only thing I've seen thus far that actually feels "Next-gen" to me.
Playstation 4 will have the games that do interest me, and I will get one eventually. Thankfully, because they decided to not do backwards compatibility, my first priority is to get a new PS3 to replace my old phatty one(maybe putting in a decently sized HDD as well so I never need to worry about replacing it again). Only thing that would change this is Persona 5 as a launch title, about as likely as Xbox Live Gold being free next-gen.
Nintendo I kind of have had it with now. Lack of an account system still shows how behind the times they truly are, and again this new system looks to be another case of "Buy our 2-3 games a year!" A 3DS XL right now would be a smarter purchase for me, so long as I avoid digital(which is a shame as Animal Crossing is certainly a game meant for digital).
PC will probably still be my main platform I'm thinking. Lack of JRPGs hurts, but that's why I have consoles anyway. Any non-JRPG I care about almost always ends up on the PC in a superior version. And then there's Occulus Rift, the only thing I've seen thus far that actually feels "Next-gen" to me.
The silly part is that, GAF has always been primarily PC/Sony/Nintendo. Those are legacy systems, and the average GAFer grew up with games. Most of the people who are acting all offended about the X1 probably never would have touched the device in the first place.
That's where all the weird malicious stuff comes from. Not from people who actually are going to be affected by any of the actual changes. Just people who want to stir up the pot because they honestly believe that they are fighting some kind of "good fight" against a made up "enemy".
We're getting close to E3, and it's a generational-shift year. This is the kind of time where I just spend most of my time in community, and try to stay out of general gaming as much as possible.
That's where all the weird malicious stuff comes from. Not from people who actually are going to be affected by any of the actual changes. Just people who want to stir up the pot because they honestly believe that they are fighting some kind of "good fight" against a made up "enemy".
We're getting close to E3, and it's a generational-shift year. This is the kind of time where I just spend most of my time in community, and try to stay out of general gaming as much as possible.
Bullshit. Does Vita mocking, initial PS3 mocking and ongoing Wii U mocking no longer exist because of the Xbox One? This is straight up revisionist history crap.
W-what? The same exact thing happens with all the other consoles. I think you misunderstand me. I'm just saying that there's so much hate towards microsoft being spouted because there's a ton of people who were just waiting for something to pounce on.
It's no different than all the nintendo/vita/everything else hate. Just like how a lot of the vita hate threads are Nintendo fans who never would have bought a vita, and a lot of the wii u hate threads are sony fans that never would have touched a wii u. I think you just saw my first sentence and jumped to a conclusion. Not trying to imply that all of gaf hates microsoft. Please chill out.
buddha0991
Member
Woah now people, lets not attack each other, lets just drink and be chill
Alright, I apologize. There've been other people who claim that NeoGAF as a whole wouldn't have liked whatever Microsoft showed before the conference because they're a Sony centric forum—which is utter stupidity—and I interpreted your comment in that sense.
I think there are certain segments that are ready to hate any company for whatever they do regardless, though. So yes, I suppose people who are inherently PS4 biased and were ready to pounce on the Durango regardless of what happened before the conference were given more fuel to the fire because of how pathetic the event actually was. If Sony or Nintendo came out with something similar, other people with other biases would do the same, like you said.
For me, I had a 360 first before my PS3 (Wii before all of those). Paying for online multiplayer as well as practically no exclusives that I cared about at all soured me on the Xbox brand, so even though I was (and still am) ready for the Xbox One to impress me, I was going to be more interested in the PS4.
Yeah, there's already a contingency of people on GAF who have decided they don't like NS for whatever reason.
Being disappointed in the X1 when you were never going to give it a chance to start invalidates your opinion as far as I'm concerned. It's a slant. It's like anti-fanboyism.
I don't think anybody in here is like that, but you'd have to be blind to not see it on GAF.
I'm sorry guys, I didn't mean to imply anything like that. It was just a general statement about how silly GAF gets when a new system is announced, and why I prefer hanging out in threads like these.
So yeah... at least we can be rational here. I mean, we all agree that robot waifus were the best addition to persona, right? We can all agree there!
Nah, it's cool man. I honestly didn't mean to imply that everyone on GAF is a specific type of fanboy. I too dislike it when people say that. GAF is pretty much all over the place. All I was trying to say is that I think the xbox contingency is a little smaller here than other groups, and that's probably why we're seeing a tad more vitriolic hate than usual. I don't think it's to the extent of saying something like "IGN Boards are all Xbox fanboys!" or "GameFAQ's is Sony territory!".
That's pretty unfair. GAF is not a hivemind. There are just as many of us like myself who have been pretty fair Microsoft supporters until recently when they started going away from what made the Xbox so great in the first place: The games.
No, GAF's not a hivemind by any means. But there's definitely groups of people who are bound to hate on a specific system because they don't own it. This isn't even exclusive to NeoGAF.
Right. That's what I mean. If you want to call those groups out fine, but us here in the Persona thread and chat have been pretty reasonable about it until Jello's post.
Calling it a "contingency of people" is just doing a disservice to everyone. Not to mention it's a horrible misuse of the word "contingency."
Besides, there's a lot of legitimate things to dislike about the Xbox One, even if it weren't for the anti-used game features.
I didn't mean everybody. Sorry if that wasn't clear. Flux said what I meant better.
Sophia said:
I can respect that and I'd say the opposite is true as well. I'd ask that you respect that.
Right. That's what I mean. If you want to call those groups out fine, but us here in the Persona thread and chat have been pretty reasonable about it until Jello's post.
Calling it a "contingency of people" is just doing a disservice to everyone. Not to mention it's a horrible misuse of the word "contingency."
Besides, there's a lot of legitimate things to dislike about the Xbox One, even if it weren't for the anti-used game features.
I agree. I think my problem with General Gaming right now is not so much the threads calling out Microsoft for stupid things, it's the threads like "now that MS sucks, r u going with PS4".
Those are the threads I can do without. Plus, MS is going is probably going to announce some pretty great games that will settle down a lot of the more vocal microsoft fans at E3. I'm happy reserving judgement till then.
That's E3 for you. It's like this every year. Just be glad the moderation team is doing an excellent at keeping the truly inane comments out.
Fair enough, although only to some degree. My stance in regards to the legal aspects is completely unmovable as I don't believe Microsoft should be allowed to do as they please in ignoring the First Sale Doctrine on physical goods.
We talking about those next-gen systems here and if we'll buy them?! Guess I'll toss in my two cents:
XBone-Not a chance. I am either going to Japan or joining the military next year. If it's the former, I'll probably have spotty internet at best. If it's the latter, LOL at having a good internet connection (if I have one at all).
Wii U-Not enough games right now. I'll pick one up when Smash, Mario, and Zelda are all out.
PS4-The most likely next-gen system I will pick up, but I probably won't get one for the next few years because of money and moving around.
I am probably going to be super heavy on my handhelds (3DS and Vita) for the next few years starting in mid-2014.
Edit: I also have a fairly good PC, so that will probably hold out for one or two more years.
XBone-Not a chance. I am either going to Japan or joining the military next year. If it's the former, I'll probably have spotty internet at best. If it's the latter, LOL at having a good internet connection (if I have one at all).
Wii U-Not enough games right now. I'll pick one up when Smash, Mario, and Zelda are all out.
PS4-The most likely next-gen system I will pick up, but I probably won't get one for the next few years because of money and moving around.
I am probably going to be super heavy on my handhelds (3DS and Vita) for the next few years starting in mid-2014.
Edit: I also have a fairly good PC, so that will probably hold out for one or two more years.
Woah now people, lets not attack each other, lets just drink and be chill
I think I've played enough of Persona 2: EP(not much) to get an idea that this pic is wrong somehow.
I wouldn't expect otherwise.
I really just should've said "there's a group of Sony fans/loyalists", but that sounded a bit like a mass generalization. I apologize again.
I guess in my circle there's a nice group of people that already spent years finding anything about the 360 that they could hate. When those people try to show up to a discussion as though their opinions weren't colored beforehand, it's a little frustrating.
I'm not really having a good week with regards to the Internet.
No worries! I blame E3. It's hard to keep a cool head around the internet when everyone is acting like they are.
I used to be a pretty big supporter of the 360, but Microsoft's gradually moved away from what I liked about it. It's hard to care about TV functions when I don't watch TV, and harder to care about things like Skype integration when I'm sitting at my PC when I play.
buddha0991
Member
No worries PersonaGAF, this is a place of niceness and ballerness
You're more interested in talking about SMT IV and lusting over Persona 1/2....
... which isn't a bad idea honestly.
No worries! I blame E3. It's hard to keep a cool head around the internet when everyone is acting like they are.
I used to be a pretty big supporter of the 360, but Microsoft's gradually moved away from what I liked about it. It's hard to care about TV functions when I don't watch TV, and harder to care about things like Skype integration when I'm sitting at my PC when I play.
Yeah, I get that. That's what I keep telling people. I do watch a reasonable amount of TV, so of course I find that stuff appealing.
E3 has a sort of tragic irony to it. You'd think everybody would just be excited, not at each others throats.
It is
buddha0991
Member
You're more interested in talking about SMT IV and lusting over Persona 1/2....
... which isn't a bad idea honestly.
Be excellent to each other!
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