Can I ask you something: how long have you been waiting for a game called "Persona 5?"
Persona Localization interview with Yu Namba
- Thread starter DNAbro
- Start date
TheMrPliskin
Member
It's easy to forget how long it's been since Persona 4 but it's actually been 7 years at this point, I feel for anyone who's been waiting for Persona 5 for that long.
Hysterical
Member
I've only been waiting since I beat P4G in 2012, but I feel for those who have been waiting longer. This is my most anticipated game at the moment, and I hope it does actually release this year.
Palette Swap
Member
55: buy $60 worth of PSN cards on Amazon, add them to your U.S. account, purchase and download on day one.
charlequin
Banned
No, but do I expect people to apply knowledge and understanding of situations to their commentary and when they disbelieve something, to do so based on some rational consideration rather than thoughtless copycatting. Mindless cynicism isn't a good look.
"Even though I demonstrably know nothing about software development or localization, there's no way Atlus puts that game out in 2015 LOLOLOL" is a bad, low-effort, zero-content post that makes the thread (and by extension, the forum) a worse place to have a serious conversation -- and this thread has far too many copies of that post. Far more so than comments on the actual interview, there's a litany of complaints about something that's largely invented -- this idea that there's "no way" this game could come out in 2015.
I want to be clear, there's nothing inherently wrong with being skeptical. If someone has a case to lay out, that's entirely reasonable -- that's why we have a discussion forum. But skepticism has to engage at least with the information that we have available -- that Atlus USA can't announce a release date before Japan gets one but have been consistently certain that they'll hit a 2015 date, that they've managed close releases before and have mentioned their intent to bring titles out sooner, or just that there's no obvious reason at all to lie about this when no one would really be unhappy with an honestly-stated "not until 2016."
marimorimo
Member
Not that long since I played my first Persona game (P4G) on the Vita back in 2013. I remember being a quarter into the game and thinking "I can't wait to play the next installment of this!"
The thing is, Atlus has satisfied my hunger for more Persona and fusions with the other games they released in the meantime, such as SMT IV, P4Q, Persona 4 Arena and Dancing All Night. Not to mention there is still this tremendous backlog of all SMT and spinoff games. I've been playing P3P on and off for half a year now.
I understand how people who have been really looking forward to this game for nearly a decade can't accept a release beyond 2015, but I can't bring myself to be upset with Atlus over a missed release date because I know they haven't been slacking and have been churning out a lot of pretty good games in the meantime. I was pretty impressed with their most recent P5 trailer and would willingly wait as long as I needed to if it meant I could play a well-polished game.
It's been 7 years for some people. More than 6 for me. The game's already been delayed once. I've been closely following this game for so many years; I remember how each year after Persona 4 came out, people would go "maybe Persona 5?" in TGS threads every single time.
I've played all of the spin-offs; they're good. I've watched the various anime series; they're bad to alright to good. I understand that mentality of having a game be delayed until it's good and not release it a poorer game than it could be. But, at some point, that mindset in regards to Persona 5 actually becomes ridiculous. Would you be willing to wait for the game to be released in 2018? Because that would be equivalent to the wait people have had ever since we started hearing about the game's development in 2010.
I just don't think you can have that perspective when you've only been waiting for 2 years. People who have waited since Persona 4 released, like me, have been waiting longer than people were waiting for The Last Guardian. I can easily accept a release outside of 2015, just as I did when I accepted it wasn't hitting in "Winter 2014." I could also easily accept it being delayed one other year to "2016," revealed at TGS just like last time... and then the same happening the next year. It doesn't mean that it isn't silly.
Either way, Persona 5 is coming out in 2015 in Japan. We know development's going smoothly and people are transitioning away from the project as their work on it is finishing. A delay for North America into 2016 would mean more time to try and avoid spoilers, I guess.
artsi
Member
Yeah that's how I feel, sure it's fine to polish a game but at this point as a fan I'm already GIVE IT TO ME DAMMIT, it's been so many years and I'm 100% sure it'll be great.
And for sure it's out in Japan this year. I mean they were already at a point where they could say it's coming out in 2014. It can't be in that bad state now.
semiconscious
Member
here's my post that you previously responded to:
where exactly have i said 'no way lol?'. all i have done is express my skepticism, based on the fact that 1) what's come before isn't always a reliable gauge of what's to come & 2) the self-defeating nature of not announcing a release date, or making available for pre-order a major title supposedly less than 6 months from release...
i'm sorry you see this as 'alarmist', or something. i'm genuinely looking forward to the game, & have been for a while. i'm simply personally doubtful that i'll be seeing it this year, for the reasons stated...
Dragon1893
Member
I don't expect to play it this year.
Best not to think about it.
Best not to think about it.
charlequin
Banned
This is the part that really gets me. What is it that you think is going on? The obvious explanation, to me, is that the Japanese branch is dragging its feet on announcing a final date for any number of possible reasons, which means Atlus USA is hamstrung from being any more precise than "2015" even if they have a locked date internally.
If that's not the situation, then what is the alternate explanation? What is the business purpose achieved by telling people 2015 if it's already logistically impossible to achieve that goal? What game do people think Atlus USA is trying to pull here? Why, as a general rule, not just tell people a date is TBD?
1. Corporate red tape. New P5 bonus being available for Japan users just slightly after E3.
2. Like it or not, P4Dance is their next upcoming Persona game. Sure, there's advertisement too, but new info will drive the attention away from the dancing game. Their focus is on pushing their more immediate titles. It's like saying, why would Square Enix bother marketing Dragon Quest Heroes when people are more interested in the next mainline Dragon Quest game?
semiconscious
Member
to be perfectly honest: i no longer have any idea whether you are agreeing or disagreeing with me at this point
...what i know's going on?: there's no release date. why, exactly, is that? what do i think is going on? i have no idea. none. could be any (as you say) of many reasons. all pure speculation...
so all i'm left with is what i know, for a fact: there is no release date. &, coming from the school of 'it ain't over till it's over', that's my personal line in the sand: give me a release date, & you get my eager anticipation. don't, & you get nothing (aka: 'skepticism'), because, given the choice, i'll always choose being delightfully surprised over being sorely disappointed...
& again, this's just my own personal take on the whole thing. i encourage no one to adopt my particular belief system, & would love to be wrong & playing p5 this christmas morning...
DQXI hasn't been officially announced and Heroes is gonna be on a relevant system in the US.
Makoto Yuki
Banned
Since the end of Persona 4, so about 7 years. The wait between 3 and 4 was almost non existent in retrospect. Honestly, I thought P5 was going to be the PS3 JRPG swansong, much like how P4 was for the PS2. Now that it's being released on PS3 and PS4, it's hard to call it a swansong when it's also being released on current hardware.
I can see where you're coming from.
From a console perspective their output hasn't been all that great. On the PS3/360 the only games they developed for those consoles were Catherine and P4A/P4AU (With ASW). They did publish a ton of fantastic games though. If you look back at the PS2 you had a much larger list of games they developed with P3(FES), P4, SMT: Nocturne, SMT: Digital Devil Saga 1/2, SMT: Devil Summoner 2: Raidou Kuzunoha vs. King Abaddon, and many others.
Now they are putting out great stuff on handhelds. They have basically moved much of their development to the 3DS with titles like SMT:IV, PQ, SMT
evil Surviver 1/2. So yes, I see why you would call them slacking since P4, but that's from a console perspective, they still manage to develop great games, but mostly on handhelds these days. It's another reason I'm excited for P5, a large scale Atlus developed console JRPG sounds amazing after waiting for another console JRPG since the PS2.
clay_ghost
Member
You must not have own a DS , PSP and 3DS err? Their output are still great, even better than PS2 era imo.
cj_iwakura
Member
That's a pretty ridiculous claim, they've been putting out pretty mediocre stuff over the last couple of years. Their licensing taste has been atrocious.
(I'm not counting first/second party, of course.)
StereoVsn
Gold Member
For me its Atlus Japan's misunderstanding of marketing games in the West is what's frustrating. P4D is going to sell in the West to only a limited Persona fanbase. It's not going to sell more or less whether they release more info about P5.
E3 and Gamescom are the two main venues they have to present their stuff to gaming audience outside the usual Atlus fanbase. They have failed at E3 and most likely will do the same at Gamescom.
Let's say they release in December 2015. Considering the glut of games in Q4 and lack of overall marketing hype / build up, its going to sell to the same fanbase as alwayd. Considering lack of RPGs on Playstation 4 (PS3 being irrelevant to majority of gaming public in the West), it would be a good opportunity to pitch outside the usual suspects (ie people reading specific gaming forums).
This is not happening and it will not happen. It's not a great business decision from Atlus Japan and will potentially bite them in the rear in the West. Pre-order, presentation s during major show, SEs, etc.. all help to build hype in the months before the release, and there isn't all that much time left in 2015. Unless Atlus J knows that this won't make it to the West till 2015 and is waiting till later in the year for that marketing push for Q1 2016 release.
Why is this restricted to the West when it's been the same way in Japan?
I'm not even bothered if the game releases on 2016 here since I waited for P5 for more than 6 years and can keep waiting a little more because I know than when I play it I'm going to get properly scalped by ATLUS.
BUT I have a feeling that the games is really going to release this year, I mean, people were doubting that FO4 was going to release this year =P
BUT I have a feeling that the games is really going to release this year, I mean, people were doubting that FO4 was going to release this year =P
orthodoxy1095
Banned
I agree that long, long periods aren't necessary, but I don't think doing something like a week or two is a good idea either. I mean, maybe it'd work because it's just so weird, but otherwise it sounds like a poor idea. I would have doubts about them even having enough stock if they tried to pull something like that. There's a reason that most companies take a few months to advertise, it's all based on getting effective frequency with your reach. You probably can't get the word out in only a week or two.
There's that famous humorous take on the subject by Thomas Smith:
I don't have any personal insight into the company culture at Atlus/SEGA, however from my personal experience in the corporate world there are a variety of reasons why a hypothetical company might act that way:
- They might be in denial about the 'logistical impossibility' or management may be out-of-touch and set an unrealistic target so employees have to toe the line.
- They might be worried about the reaction of shareholders to the delay of a big franchise.
- They might be worried about company morale.
- As long as they are targeting an aggressive release date, it is easier to get employees to put in crunch-time hours.
- There could be any number of internal political reasons people working on the project might want it to appear to be on schedule as long as possible (keep in mind that in this specific case this is a company that recently got acquired).
I'm not saying Atlus USA PR is lying to us; the people saying "2015" might be acting in good faith, but might not be getting accurate information from other parts of the company for any of the reasons listed above. It is correct to say that this is baseless speculation but the fact is that, in the gaming industry, having a few high profile projects get delayed from Q4 into the next year is about as dependable as death and taxes. People are going to remain skeptical until they see some more tangible evidence of progress (footage from different areas of the Japanese version than what we saw in the first trailer, in-game screenshots of the English version, details on the inevitable Limited Edition, etc.), and they have every right to be.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
P5's next trailer will be 20 pages (100pp) minimum on here. Just sayin'.
He has a point as they truly were in Install Mode from 2003-2008.
He has a point as they truly were in Install Mode from 2003-2008.
cj_iwakura
Member
No joke. Their licenses brought us Dark Spire, Eternal Poison(hey I liked it), Metal Saga, etc. I can't think of the last third party game they've localized I cared about. Code of Princess, maybe.
charlequin
Banned
There's a lot of this type of bargain offered up in these threads, and I guess that's really what drives these conversations -- it's not so much "I logically think the game is more likely to not be scheduled for this year" as an emotional response to radio silence.
But I don't see how that equation really affects Atlus either way? On one side you'll be enthusiastic about a game you are definitely going to buy, and on the other side you... won't be enthusiastic about a game in advance, but will still definitely buy it?
I think it's weird that you say this and yet cite as an example something like an E3 presentation that has basically zero effect on sales of a game like P5. Even the most optimistic possible market segment for this title is niche enough that stuff like front-page IGN coverage isn't really a factor in the buying decision, and that's all that an appearance on-stage at E3 really gets you. The other stuff isn't even really behind -- you only need 2-3 months to run a pre-order cycle, and there's plenty of time to do that for a late 2015 (which is what we'd be talking about) date.
I see what you're saying, but these reasons basically boil down to "the company is so fucked-up and incompetent that lying (to the public or to themselves) is more likely than offering a truthful date." That's definitely a scenario that happens, +but you'd generally look for something beyond one vague release date to theorize it about a long-running company.
We have a pretty decent amount of info about how Atlus USA operate -- they generally don't announce stuff far in advance, they hold off on announcements and dates for US releases of games that are 100% certain to come over, and they take a clearly subordinate position to the Japanese branch when it comes to promotion of any specific game, so their ability to announce dates or other key info is gated by what's been announced in Japan. "We don't have a JP date yet so Atlus USA has to sit on their hands for a while still" seems like an explanation that calls for far less speculation and assumption than "Atlus USA is engaged in an effort to mislead people about a release date due to disastrous internal politics." I think that's especially true when trying for a near-simultaneous launch while still being stuck behind Japan for promotion would have exactly this effect of leaving the US branch in a promotional holding pattern until pretty late in the game.
Last Remnant did it and so did Star Ocean The Last Hope (NA and JP). It can be done.
CertifiedFP
Member
CrimsonFist
Member
Maybe not a massive game, but for Atlus, Devil Survivor Overclocked, with the NA version releasing before the Japanese one.
Pokemon XY and ORAS were same-day.
cj_iwakura
Member
It did have a very large script and was almost fully dubbed, though, so that's a big one.
Why does it matter how many months in advance of release its available to preorder?
Most Square Enix rpgs are within a short three months, true, but Last Remnant and Star Ocean Last Hope were practically the same day. They haven't really done that since their whole "RPG for the World" experiment failed, but I can see them going back to that for Final Fantasy XV and Kingdom Hearts 3.
Dr. Kitty Muffins
Member
I just hope a solid effort is given to advertise the game to gamers beyond the core Persona fans.
It's interesting that they're both 360 games which probably meant that NA sales were a bigger share than they would normally be for a JRPG. Maybe it's less of a question of whether or not they can and more whether or not they value the other markets enough to do it. And that thought has me a little pessimistic because everything Atlus has done so far with P5 seems to be the usual JP-first, everyone else later.
That's an interesting one, though it's also one where most of the script was already done as it was a port. But it was also one that added voice acting. That one seems to be a reason to be optimistic.
I'm not sure I understand. What will have an effect on game sales for P5 and what sort of marketing will be a factor in the buying decision, then?
CrimsonFist
Member
I believe Atlus actually retranslated it. I know they did for Record Breaker, but I've seen mention that they did for Overclocked as well, so it being a port wouldn't have made as much of a difference.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
What exactly is this statement based on?
Honestly the way I see it on why the game barely needs a marketing budget is the following: this is a series with niche appeal but an extremely loyal fanbase. The game will sell truckloads on that fact alone and easily >90% of the sales at launchwill be to people already in the know of it.
That initial fanbase, after buying, will be very vocal and do great word of mouth that will guarantee sales from people not familiar with the franchise.
Is "niche appeal" and "sell truckloads" not an oxymoron?
Catherine didn't become the best selling game in the history of Atlus USA because it only appealed to an established fanbase; in fact, that game didn't have one as a new IP (and people are crazy if they think "P Studio" was a big factor at all in terms of the game's overall sales).
A series like the Souls games, for example, would not have grown as big if it was only up to a loyal fanbase spreading the word. Demon's Souls grew that way; everything after came from huge marketing pushes by Bandai Namco.
cj_iwakura
Member
Catherine's road to success was word of mouth, and it definitely helped that casual gamers latched onto it. People at work who don't play games were talking about Catherine.
So yeah, P5 being at E3 would certainly be good for the reputation. CNN talks about E3.
Is there any kind of info dump on P5 anywhere? Do we know how it's going to play, similarly to P4G? Is it set in a school again? (are all them them?)
Currently about 35 hours into P4G, I really like it. It is a long-ass game though seriously. I'm assuming it takes an in-game calendar year to finish, I've only done April - September so far, so not even half way through the calendar yet.
Currently about 35 hours into P4G, I really like it. It is a long-ass game though seriously. I'm assuming it takes an in-game calendar year to finish, I've only done April - September so far, so not even half way through the calendar yet.
TheMrPliskin
Member
Sure Persona 5 could certainly do well without needing a big marketing budget, but having a big marketing budget means that the game can be advertised to a wider audience and it also means that you're not leaving your advertising up to other people. Word of mouth can only get a series so far and I think Flux's example of the Soul series is a great point of reference, that series has grown far beyond where it was at with Demon Souls and that's likely because the marketing has grown bigger with each game.
cj_iwakura
Member
Yes, there's definitely a school life aspect, one of the early trailers shows him having chalk thrown at him. It's a bigger city, kind of like Shibuya(if not actually Shibuya).
CrimsonFist
Member
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oc_9r4wifFc trailer 1
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2vbo65 trailer 2
http://gematsu.com/2015/02/persona-5-protagonist-first-persona-detailed-famitsu
http://gematsu.com/2015/02/persona-5-director-discusses-characters-themes-development
http://gematsu.com/2015/02/persona-5-protagonist-first-persona-arsene
http://gematsu.com/2015/02/dengeki-playstation-shares-persona-5-details-full-scans
and a selection of articles talking about it. That should be most of what we know. It looks to have a school setting and to follow a similar ish structure to P4.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Makes me think of the Witcher games. The first two games sold something like 6 million copies in 8 years. The third game sold 4 million in two weeks. They built on a small, loyal fanbase by treating them well and encouraging good word of mouth for the first two installments. Then eventually they went on blitzing the world with an enormous amount of marketing. TW3 had fantastic marketing on one hand and a loving, loyal fanbase on the other hand backing up whatever CDPR was saying. It was a killer combo.
Obviously, not an analogous situation with different types of games, audience, levels of niceness, etc, but still. Games like Souls prove that marketing has some importance for seemingly niche titles. Persona 5 could do fine without a big marketing budget I guess. But why not give it a chance to be marketed well and expand the fanbase?
Thanks a million buddy, appreciate it!