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[Chumley]

People are dying since Trump's victory? When did this happen? History will see that we had the chance to stop him, but Hillary was the best they could come up with.

Off the top of my head, 4 trans people Ellen Page tweeted about committed suicide in response to the election. Widespread attacks/threats on LGBT, blacks, Muslims directly citing Trump. Chants of BUILD THE WALL in classrooms.

History will look at us as craven fools if we don't fight this with every fiber of our being.

 

[wanderingprostheyltite]

If you want to get rid of the electoral college, it would take a constitutional amendment to remove the electoral college, which would require the standard requirements for a constitutional amendment. This would not happen.

If you want to make the electoral college useless, there are two major pathways. One is to amend the constitution to grant control of elections to the federal government rather than the states, and have the federal government conduct the election in such a way that the electoral college outcome matches the national popular vote. This will also not happen.

The most plausible pathway is the NPVIC (National Popular Vote Interstate Compact). This is basically a contract between states to agree to give their electoral votes to the winner of the national popular vote. It's been signed by enough states for about 130 electoral votes of the 270 you need. The way it works is that as soon as enough states have signed in, the contract will go live. So right now California has signed in, but the contract isn't live, so California gives all its EVs to the state winner. But when enough states agree, all those states will switch overnight. So imagine that 280 EVs worth agree, and the other states don't. The other states will allocate their electoral votes based on state winners, but the states that agree will give all 280 EVs in a bloc to the national popular vote winner. So the states that don't agree no longer matter, and we effectively have a national popular vote election.

You can read about this here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact

I recently posted in PoliGaf a series of journal articles debating the merits of the proposal:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=223113199&postcount=16882

Of course even in that situation there could be faithless electors. As of right now, we depend on electors deferring to norms that ask that they obey their state's election results. That's how the American electoral system works.

Appreciate the rundown and links, thanks.

 

[Moosichu]

If you want to characterize it as rules and traditions, then only rules are legally binding, and traditions are what we make of them. I agree that not respecting the traditions could be the cause of significant protest (just as the EC and the popular vote splitting in 2000 was a cause of significant protest). I agree that in general the outcome that generates the least unrest is electors not being faithless. I just don't think there's anything inherently illegitimate with using powers you have under the election system, and it's weird to see people say "Respect the Electoral College Process... Except The Part Of The Process That You Shouldn't Respect".

This.

 

[Spiral Insanity]

People are dying since Trump's victory? When did this happen? History will see that we had the chance to stop him, but Hillary was the best they could come up with.

We will all die due to climate change denial. Science. So crazy.

 

[maxiell]

If voters and candidates knew going into the election that the popular vote would matter, it would completely change everything. Winning the popular vote under our current system is meaningless.

 

[whitehawk]

Remember, TRUMP DENIES CLIMATE CHANGE.

Just because he's elected, doesn't mean there shouldn't be an effort to stop him, because his presidency affects the future of the planet.

This is my biggest concern too. Most stuff can be overturned and fought back in time, but climate change needs to be dealt with now, or 20 years ago.

 

[Matt]

In 29 states, the rules are that either electors must vote for the popular vote winner from their state, or they can vote however they want but that vote doesn't count and someone else needs to cast the vote instead.

So yes, there is something more than tradition in a majority of states with regards to an elector's vote.

Donald Trumpnis going to be the next President of the United States of America, because he won. As awful as that is.

 

[Chakan]

So democracy isnt good anymore because Hillary lost? Are you fucking kidding me?

Trump won. Fair and square. Deal with it and move on with your life.

Btw he'll not do everything he promised during his campaign. Even he knows that.

 

[Dirca]

When Voter ID laws and other suppression efforts lowered turnout in key states like North Carolina and Michigan I wouldn't exactly call it fair.

I live in NC. Voter ID laws were thrown out. Durham even had a problem with the equipment and was granted extra time beyond normal hours on election night. I read a vast majority of NC news and didn't come across a single article or mention of any problems or suppression after the ID laws were tossed.

 

[Chumley]

Remember, TRUMP DENIES CLIMATE CHANGE.

Just because he's elected, doesn't mean there shouldn't be an effort to stop him, because his presidency affects the future of the planet.

Nah dude we just have to get over it and accept him. /s

 

[Laughing Banana]

All the "huehuehue I'll bet Trump will act like sore losers once this election is done" is quite ironic right now, isn't it.

 

[Fracas]

Even though every fiber of my being wants Clinton to be president, this should not happen. She lost. This would set an incredibly dangerous precedent and elections would become straight up pointless.

 

[faisal233]

Nah dude we just have to get over it and accept him. /s

No, quit doing silly shit like petitioning the EC.

The real work is rebuilding our party for 2018. So we can stop Trump's agenda. Hashtags, petition, even protests aren't going to do shit. Only voting will.

 

[Stumpokapow]

In 29 states, the rules are that either electors must vote for the popular vote winner from their state, or they can vote however they want but that vote doesn't count and someone else needs to cast the vote instead.

Yes, in those states. And in other states faithless electors are fined but counted. And in other states (including Texas, which has more EVs than the spread) there are no laws against faithless electors. And in the states with laws there are typically no efforts to actually enforce them, because most faithless electors have been accidents rather than intentional, and the intentional ones haven't swung an election.

But It is plainly true that the petition's proposed stategy--faithless electors should hand the election to Clinton--is "legal" (in the sense that it could be binding) and possible.

It's not going to happen, it's crazy, and it's clearly someone going into an anxiety-induced grief conniption... and I think it's quite unwise as I've said several times, but it is totally possible and legal. If that causes trouble for people they should probably move for more stringent faithless elector laws in more states.

 

[Chumley]

Even though every fiber of my being wants Clinton to be president, this should not happen. She lost. This would set an incredibly dangerous precedent and elections would become straight up pointless.

So you'd rather allow the planet to die than the nature of elections be changed? Just checking.

 

[MUnited83]

So democracy isnt good anymore because Hillary lost? Are you fucking kidding me?

Drumpf won. Fair and square. Deal with it and move on with your life.

Btw he'll not do everything he promised during his campaign. Even he knows that.

According to democracy, the person that has the most vote wins. Guess who got more votes? Clinton.


Also, the electors being able to elect Clinton is literally something that is allowed. It's literally written in law. If they did it, it would still be democracy. Shit, it would be much more of a democracy, as the EC would do that they fucking were made to do, and make sure the will of the people is heard.

 

[Exile20]

Actually it wouldn't really be against the will of the people as Hillary is winning the popular vote.

It was not overwhelming. This would do more harm that good. I hate that orange cunt more than anyone but this will not only undermine the democratic process but split the country even more. Yes, in my opinion, the electoral college is not a good system for current day.

It made sense in the 1900's - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVDvRQ4tVHQ

 

[faisal233]

All the "huehuehue I'll bet Trump will act like sore losers once this election is done" is quite ironic right now, isn't it.

Hillary didn't act like a sore loser, so I don't see the irony.

 

[Jarmel]

All the "huehuehue I'll bet Trump will act like sore losers once this election is done" is quite ironic right now, isn't it.

Difference is the candidate that one party chose is possibly putting in nutjobs, con-artists, and racists into positions of power.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Off the top of my head, 4 trans people Ellen Page tweeted about committed suicide in response to the election. Widespread attacks/threats on LGBT, blacks, Muslims directly citing Trump. Chants of BUILD THE WALL in classrooms.

History will look at us as craven fools if we don't fight this with every fiber of our being.

Then fight those individuals doing the terrible things. Fight by protecting those who are being attacked. Fight by getting active in politics and getting people to fucking vote.

 

[JaseMath]

I am as pissed as anybody else, but come on people, he won fair and square, let it go

On that topic, there is a whole subset of people who believe that Russia tampered with the election. There's a guy at work who won't let this idea go.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

I live in NC. Voter ID laws were thrown out. Durham even had a problem with the equipment and was granted extra time beyond normal hours on election night. I read a vast majority of NC news and didn't come across a single article or mention of any problems or suppression after the ID laws were tossed.

It was a constant struggle. There is no way that their efforts did not affect turnout.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/north-carolina-early-voting/506963/

The GOP in Ohio, Wisconsin, North Carolina, Michigan, and Florida all engage in voter suppression efforts. Most of which court decisions came too late to fix.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

this is horseshit... isn't the whole point of the electoral college to avoid electing demagogues like Trump?

Well, the initial point was to protect slavery, but yeah, that too.

 

[WiiredShawn]

I contributed. It's a longer shot than it should be, but fuck anyone who's like "oh, he won fair and square."

Voter suppression is not fair.

Getting your buddies in the FBI to reopen a case purely to create fear and doubt is not fair.

Using a campaign of hatred to discourage people from voting is not fair.

And Hillary won the popular vote. More people voted for her than Trump.

It doesn't matter that Congress would obstruct everything. At least we wouldn't move backwards.

 

[Fracas]

So you'd rather allow the planet to die than the nature of elections be changed? Just checking.

Please don't put words in my mouth.

I cried with my mother when it became official.

Literally rigging our system is not the way to fix this, despite the satisfaction I would personally get from it.

 

[Chumley]

No, quit doing silly shit like petitioning the EC.

The real work is rebuilding our party for 2018. So we can stop Trump's agenda. Hashtags, petition, even protests aren't going to do shit. Only voting will.

Do you know what happened in Ukraine? They deposed a despot through sacrifice, protest, and riots. Voting is not the only thing that works.

 

[Matt]

Yes, in those states. And in other states faithless electors are fined but counted. And in other states (including Texas, which has more EVs than the spread) there are no laws against faithless electors. And in the states with laws there are typically no efforts to actually enforce them, because most faithless electors have been accidents rather than intentional, and the intentional ones haven't swung an election.

But It is plainly true that the petition's proposed stategy--faithless electors should hand the election to Clinton--is "legal" (in the sense that it could be binding) and possible.

It's not going to happen, it's crazy, and it's clearly someone going into an anxiety-induced grief conniption... and I think it's quite unwise as I've said several times, but it is totally possible and legal. If that causes trouble for people they should probably move for more stringent faithless elector laws in more states.

Oh I know all the rules very well, and yes it is technically possible. I wasn't arguing otherwise. But as you said it just isn't going to happen for so many reasons that this just isn't healthy.

 

[Jombie]

So democracy isnt good anymore because Hillary lost? Are you fucking kidding me?

Trump won. Fair and square. Deal with it and move on with your life.

Btw he'll not do everything he promised during his campaign. Even he knows that.

He won't build a wall or ban Muslims, but he the Senate and house will obliterate the progress that's been made during Obama's tenure and will do absolutely nothing about climate change. It's worth worrying about.

 

[faisal233]

Do you know what happened in Ukraine? They deposed a despot through sacrifice, protest, and riots. Voting is not the only thing that works.

This isn't Ukraine. The American system will survive Trump.

 

[Jarmel]

Literally rigging our system is not the way to fix this, despite the satisfaction I would personally get from it.

This is a built-in failsafe that is inherently part of the system.

 

[madstarr12]

CNN projected Trump to win the popular vote today, but then took it down after her lead expanded a bit. She's over 300K ahead of him now. But if Trump ended up winning the popular vote in the end, this little "fight" would have been silly since it's fought under the premise that she'll win the popular vote for sure. Let's wait and see...

 

[Matt]

According to democracy, the person that has the most vote wins. Guess who got more votes? Clinton.


Also, the electors being able to elect Clinton is literally something that is allowed. It's literally written in law. If they did it, it would still be democracy. Shit, it would be much more of a democracy, as the EC would do that they fucking were made to do, and make sure the will of the people is heard.

The point of the EC was absolutely not to make sure that the will of the people was heard. It was created to be a check against the passions of the people.

 

[hateradio]

I would hope that they wouldn't cast their votes to him, but I don't think it'll happen. :/

The point of the EC was absolutely not to make sure that the will of the people was heard. It was created to be a check against the passions of the people.

Which is why they could theoretically keep those "deplorable" passions in check.

 

[Lonely1]

Can they elect a third perty? Serious question.

 

[Mikey Jr.]

good god @ the complacency in this thread.

"Trump won according to a broken ruleset that was devised to protect slaveholders? Well, better just accept it then, no choice."

So change the ruleset beforehand.


You can't have someone win, then say "Actually, you didn't win. We're changing the rules right now, the other person won because reasons"

 

[faisal233]

The point of the EC was absolutely not to make sure that the will of the people was heard. It was created to be a check against the passions of the people.

And it evolved, we are no longer in 1775. Quit this bullshit and put in real work with your local party.

 

[LincolnSixEcho]

I feel something like this would tear this country apart. I'm not for it. He won the election fair and square by the rules (despite his ridiculous rigged claims). Best we can do is advocate to get rid of the weird electoral college system.

 

[Fracas]

This is a built-in failsafe that is inherently part of the system.

Has this ever happened before? I feel like doing this would negate our entire electing process. Elections become wholly irrelevant when one group can change the outcome at will.

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

If this "happens", prepare for civil war.

This isn't hyperbole. We fucking made our bed with this bullshit and now we have to deal with it, as much as it hurts. We have to start planning for the future.

 

[Chumley]

This isn't Ukraine. The American system will survive Trump.

When it doesn't, I'll quote you and everyone else saying he "won't be that bad" and remind them about what he promised to do during the election.

 

[collige]

Yes, in those states. And in other states faithless electors are fined but counted. And in other states (including Texas, which has more EVs than the spread) there are no laws against faithless electors. And in the states with laws there are typically no efforts to actually enforce them, because most faithless electors have been accidents rather than intentional, and the intentional ones haven't swung an election.

But It is plainly true that the petition's proposed stategy--faithless electors should hand the election to Clinton--is "legal" (in the sense that it could be binding) and possible.

It's not going to happen, it's crazy, and it's clearly someone going into an anxiety-induced grief conniption... and I think it's quite unwise as I've said several times, but it is totally possible and legal. If that causes trouble for people they should probably move for more stringent faithless elector laws in more states.

Is there a theoretical cap on how harsh these penalties could be? Would captial punishment get struck down as violating the 8th.

 

[Jarmel]

Has this ever happened before? I feel like doing this would negate our entire electing process. Elections become wholly irrelevant when one group can change the outcome at will.

There have been faithless electors before. It would definitely cause riots but it was created to prevent demagogues like Trump from taking power.

 

[Gattsu25]

Never underestimate racial resentment in america. Trump is the reckoning America handed out after electing a minority president.

Just accept the loss.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

Is there a theoretical cap on how harsh these penalties could be? Would captial punishment get struck down as violating the 8th.

The penalties haven't been tested in court, so we don't even know if they are constitutional. They likely aren't.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

this would set a bad precedent i think and I as an african american am happy with Trump as president elect

...

 

[Matt]

And it evolved, we are no longer in 1775. Quit this bullshit and put in real work with your local party.

I have worked more then (probably) anyone else here for the Democratic party and for the nation. I understand the rules, I was only pointing out why the EC was created. It absolutely was not to make the will of the people heard.

 

[teruterubozu]

When it doesn't, I'll quote you and everyone else saying he "won't be that bad" and remind them about what he promised to do during the election.

Cool! Go get 'em!

 

[MUnited83]

Please don't put words in my mouth.

I cried with my mother when it became official.

Literally rigging our system is not the way to fix this, despite the satisfaction I would personally get from it.

This wouldn't be rigging the system, it would actually be using the system the way it was intended.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

All the "huehuehue I'll bet Trump will act like sore losers once this election is done" is quite ironic right now, isn't it.

Given that's not what's happening here, not at all.

 

[Jarmel]

Why even have a failsafe button if you're too afraid to use it?