Support NeoGAF

[ClosingADoor]

nothing , it doesn't make sense, it's a exageration, the only real part of it is tha he talks. What do you think it means?

Since he featured it on his Twitter above all other posts, I see it as a clear response to people calling him racist or anti-semitic, by saying "well, I can't be, because look at this funny picture!" And then we go into some nonsense. I also don't get why it all mentions countries and then goes "black man." That is why it stands out to me, it's just strange and looks like a way to reinforce his "it's just a joke/ironic/outrageous" excuse like he does whenever he get criticism.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

nothing , it doesn't make sense, it's a exageration, the only real part of it is tha he talks.

An exaggeration of.... what, exactly?

You can't say "oh it's just an exaggeration" and then claim there's nothing there. An exaggeration is taking an attribute and emphasising it. Are you seriously saying that "talks like a black man" is an exaggeration of... someone talking? What?

What do you think it means?

We're asking you.

 

[L Thammy]

it is abviously exagerating the character, finding racist traits in anything posible about the character, the joke works because of this, add more text to it and it becomes even better as long as is something that it is there. Te more racist traits you add , the wronger the statement is.

It reminds me in how a "how to basic" video works.

Yes, it is associating Mario with racial stereotypes. But how is that doing anything except promoting the stereotypes? Where is the leap that says that the stereotypes are wrong?

If you don't believe that Jews are moneygrubbing, you see the joke and you go "oh, Mario does match up with that stereotype."
If you do believe that Jews are moneygrubbing, you see the joke and you go "oh, Mario is like a Jew."
There's absolutely no commentary there. It's mindless. It's just throwing the stereotype out there and getting you to laugh out of sheer familiarity.

This is one of the most pervasive ways of spreading racist ideas in modern Western culture. The ideas don't come out of the ground. We know that we aren't allowed to say these things in public, but we can spread them by the ways of jokes, so if someone calls you on them you can just say that you aren't serious. Either way, you've put the ideas out there. Then, when you're comfortable with the people around you, then you get to gradually open up about you believe there was truth to the things you've been saying all along.

 

[Quixzlizx]

Labelling yourself as a "Gamer" is stupid anyway. If someone introduces themselves to me as a "gearhead," I'm going to assume that person is really boring and never shuts up about cars. I wouldn't be embarrassed to introduce myself as a gamer because of a negative connotation to gamers in particular, I'd be embarrassed to introduce myself as a one-dimensional person.

To be more on-topic, fuck PDP and the weak-willed fanboys who continue to carry water for him.

 

[Lowmelody]

The thought of introducing myself as a gamer to someone literally makes my toes curl up and give me a goddamn charlie horse in my calf muscle.

 

[Keihart]

Yes, it is associating Mario with racial stereotypes. But how is that doing anything except promoting the stereotypes? Where is the leap that says that the stereotypes are wrong?

If you don't believe that Jews are moneygrubbing, you see the joke and you go "oh, Mario does match up with that stereotype."
If you do believe that Jews are moneygrubbing, you see the joke and you go "oh, Mario is like a Jew."
There's absolutely no commentary there. It's mindless. It's just throwing the stereotype out there and getting you to laugh out of sheer familiarity.

This is one of the most pervasive ways of spreading racist ideas in modern Western culture. We know that we aren't allowed to say these things in public, but we can spread them by the ways of jokes. Then, when you're comfortable with the people around you, then you get to gradually open up about you believe there was truth to the things you've been saying all along.

I understand what you are talking about, because that is something that does happen but not with this type of example. The punchline is "don't be racist". Jokes are usually twist on expectations, when you read don't be racist like mario you expect to not be racist than the twist happens where it can't (although it always can) get more racist. The spirit of the joke is debatable , but the expectation that is twisted is that how can mario be racist . TLDR: the jokes says to me, you can make even something as harmless as Mario as racist as you want, therefore racism is stupid.

 

[L Thammy]

I understand what you are talking about, because that is something that does happen but not with this type of example. The punchline is "don't be racist". Jokes are usually twist on expectations, when you read don't be racist like mario you expect to not be racist than the twist happens where it can't (although it always can) get more racist. The spirit of the joke is debatable , but the expectation that is twisted is that how can mario be racist .

The punchline isn't "don't be racist". If the punchline was racist, it would be at the bottom; that's how jokes are typically structured.

Don't be racist is at the top. It's the premise. Don't be racist is what is being subverted.

And, again, it's not commenting that Mario is racist stereotype, because Mario is an Italian and almost none of the things mentioned are stereotypes of Italians. It's the creator of the poster who is associating Mario with ethnic stereotypes that they introduce out of fucking nowhere.

 

[Keihart]

well i agree that is not comenting that Mario is a stereotype but instead that it can be turned into one as easy as just saying it is.

 

[L Thammy]

well i agree that is not comenting that Mario is a stereotype but instead that it can be turned into one as easy as just saying it is.

How is he being turned into a racial stereotype? It's saying that he steals coins like a Jew. Not like the image of a Jew, but like a Jew. According to the poster, stealing coins is what Jews do.

Where, outside of your assumption that the poster was designed in good intentions, is it actually opposing stereotypes?

 

[BrutishMrFish]

The thought of introducing myself as a gamer to someone literally makes my toes curl up and give me a goddamn charlie horse in my calf muscle.

The thought of a grown-ass man with kids doing it is even worse.

TLDR: the jokes says to me, you can make even something as harmless as Mario as racist as you want, therefore racism is stupid.

To me it says that a person can say racist things as long as they have some attributes vaguely related to people of different backgrounds. The joke is structured so as to say that Mario can't be racist because he has qualities that the creator of the image associates with other races.

Same with the PewDiePie image. It's saying that he can't be racist because he is Swedish, has an Italian girlfriend, likes Mexican candy, etc.

 

[Keihart]

How is he being turned into a racial stereotype? It's saying that he steals coins like a Jew. Not like the image of a Jew, but like a Jew. According to the poster, stealing coins is what Jews do.

Where, outside of your assumption that the poster was designed in good intentions, is it actually opposing stereotypes?

well that's racist. Isn't that the point?

 

[Man God]

How is he being turned into a racial stereotype? It's saying that he steals coins like a Jew. Not like the image of a Jew, but like a Jew. According to the poster, stealing coins is what Jews do.

Where, outside of your assumption that the poster was designed in good intentions, is it actually opposing stereotypes?

This is basically Borat level anti-Semitism.

 

[L Thammy]

This is basically Borat level anti-Semitism.

So this poster was made by a Jewish person to create an environment wherein people will be comfortable enough to expose their own prejudices?

 

[Budi]

I understand what you are talking about, because that is something that does happen but not with this type of example. The punchline is "don't be racist". Jokes are usually twist on expectations, when you read don't be racist like mario you expect to not be racist than the twist happens where it can't (although it always can) get more racist. The spirit of the joke is debatable , but the expectation that is twisted is that how can mario be racist . TLDR: the jokes says to me, you can make even something as harmless as Mario as racist as you want, therefore racism is stupid.

You've misread the picture. It's saying, Don't be a racist. Be like Mario

 

[Keihart]

You've misread the picture. It's saying, Don't be a racist. Be like Mario

I wrote that wrong, i'll fix that, the point only make sense with "be like mario"

 

[Budi]

I wrote that wrong, i'll fix that, the point only make sense with "be like mario"

Ah alright, thought it could be the case.

 

[Trident]

Laci Green has become a TERF. No one should really be defending her.

In what world is Laci Green a TERF? Good grief.

 

[Keihart]

so... on topic, why was Felix wrong on defending the old fart on that interview?

 

[BrutishMrFish]

In what world is Laci Green a TERF? Good grief.

This one where she incredulously questions why there are so many genders and this one where she says that both sides have a point when talking about things like transphobia.

 

[Trident]

so... on topic, why was Felix wrong on defending the old fart on that interview?

I think there are at least 2 substantial issues:
1. The claim that women are less intelligent than men is not supported, and even if intended as a descriptive analysis, it nonetheless justifies a pay differential.
2. The claim that the wage gap disappears once adjusted for job/age/seniority/etc is not supported, although I believe most studies agree that does narrow substantially.

 

[ClosingADoor]

so... on topic, why was Felix wrong on defending the old fart on that interview?

Because defending people who think women are less intelligent is kind of strange. At the least you give these people a platform, at worst you agree with their statement and put it out there to your audience of millions in a joking way.

Add this to his questionable history with the anti-semitic "jokes", his contact with alt-right figures and his attitude about how the "mainstream media" is out to get him shows a celebrity that has content aimed at kids getting far too tight with disgusting views and giving a platform to that.

 

[Trident]

This one where she incredulously questions why there are so many genders and this one where she says that both sides have a point when talking about things like transphobia.

I'm watching the second one now, but is there anything in particular in the first video you can point to? I'm not seeing any attacks on the legitimacy of trans people at all.

Edit: Finished watching the second video, and she doesn't seem to address the merits of transphobia at all. It mostly seems to be a meta discussion about threats of violence in pursuits of beliefs.

Is there any quote by her about how trans women/men aren't real women/men, or shouldn't get their pronouns, or shouldn't get to use the bathroom corresponding to their gender or anything?

 

[LinkAndEpona]

I await h3h3's defense video. I'd love to be proven wrong though.

I don't think it's be a straight up defense or against video, h3h3 doesn't really do that. He is one of the most rational people out there though, that's what I look forward too

 

[MUnited83]

Laci Green has become a TERF. No one should really be defending her.

It's really crazy how quickly she descended after getting a alt-right boyfriend. Bought right in to the fuckery.

 

[Trident]

It's really crazy how quickly she descended after getting a alt-right boyfriend. Bought right in to the fuckery.

What fuckery?

 

[Keihart]

I think there are at least 2 substantial issues:
1. The claim that women are less intelligent than men is not supported, and even if intended as a descriptive analysis, it nonetheless justifies a pay differential.
2. The claim that the wage gap disappears once adjusted for job/age/seniority/etc is not supported, although I believe most studies agree that does narrow substantially.

I don't think Felix reinforces the first point as far as i'm aware.
I felt outraged by the interviewer tho, that was ridiculous. The oldman might be very wrong about his "studies" explaining the paying gap, but on the interview you can't even know that because he hardly is able to explain himself nor the interviewer is capable to say why the oldman is wrong.

 

[Trident]

I don't think Felix reinforces the first point as far as i'm aware.
I felt outraged by the interviewer tho, that was ridiculous. The oldman might be very wrong about his "studies" explaining the paying gap, but on the interview you can't even know that because he hardly is able to explain himself nor the interviewer is capable to say why the oldman is wrong.

Well, Piers Morgan (the interviewer) is indeed so terrible that he could make basically anyone seem likable by comparison.

 

[ClosingADoor]

I don't think Felix reinforces the first point as far as i'm aware.
I felt outraged by the interviewer tho, that was ridiculous. The oldman might be very wrong about his "studies" explaining the paying gap, but on the interview you can't even know that because he hardly is able to explain himself nor the interviewer is capable to say why the oldman is wrong.

He does defend the dude for saying that women earn less because they are less intelligent. And then he goes that he doesn't know if there are statistics about it. Like... why even defend the dude for it then if you know you're talking shit?

Also, he himself says he is not the person to talk about this. So why talk about it? What is the use here to give this man and these ideas a platform? That is the problem.

And then we add the surrounding circumstances to this all that have been mentioned a few times, and we come to the conclusion that maybe PewDiePie has some questionable views and probably should not influence his mostly young viewers with that.

 

[Keihart]

quoting the OP, do you mean this? “I don’t know if there’s a statistic that shows that women in general are less intelligent than men, and if there is I’d say ‘what’s the f***ing point?'”

How is he saying that womans ARE less intelligent than man? if anything he is saying that he doesn't know if there are studies and that if there are they don't matter. Wich is kinda true since "intelligence" is already a nebulous thing to measure.

I'm honestly asking you here, i've watched the video.

 

[Maedhros]

He does defend the dude for saying that women earn less because they are less intelligent. And then he goes that he doesn't know if there are statistics about it. Like... why even defend the dude for it then if you know you're talking shit?

Also, he himself says he is not the person to talk about this. So why talk about it? What is the use here to give this man and these ideas a platform? That is the problem.

And then we add the surrounding circumstances to this all that have been mentioned a few times, and we come to the conclusion that maybe PewDiePie has some questionable views and probably should not influence his mostly young viewers with that.

Sorry, but I didn't really see him defending the guy at all...

He also never affirmed the bolded part.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Just looking forward to the future "former YouTube talking head indicted on counts" headline

 

[Liquid-San]

Sorry, but I didn't really see him defending the guy at all...

He also never affirmed the bolded part.

I'm going to back this up. I read the OP, but what it seems like is that PewDiePie misinterpreted this man's stance. Even if we go by the quote, PewDiePie himself comes up with a reason that wasn't even quoted by the Polish politician, which is women are being paid less than men because they're accepting lower pay, working less hours, etc. If anyone can point me to where he explicitly agrees with the statement that women are less intelligent than men, please feel free to do so. Until then, I'm going to say this is a thread with a clickbait title and as usual, many users on Gaf are just read to polish their pitchforks for a witch hunt on someone they dislike.

 

[ClosingADoor]

quoting the OP, do you mean this? "I don't know if there's a statistic that shows that women in general are less intelligent than men, and if there is I'd say ‘what's the f***ing point?'"

How is he saying that womans ARE less intelligent than man? if anything he is saying that he doesn't know if there are studies and that if there are they don't matter. Wich is kinda true since "intelligence" is already a nebulous thing to measure.

I'm honestly asking you here, i've watched the video.

The problem to me with a statement like that is, that he doesn't condemn the thought. Talking about measuring intelligence across groups is a very sensitive thing, and one that is pretty much tied to racism and sexism. There is good reason to not go into that direction, yet here is PewDiePie going: well, he might be right, I don't know!

How about, don't make a video then if you don't know. If you yourself say you are not the person to discuss this issue, then why do it.

The whole thing makes no sense, outside of making some clickbait that conveniently falls within alt-right talking points, complete with a clearly sexist politician which he is pretty much defending.

"I understand what he is trying to say. He is not saying women should earn less, he is saying they are because of these reasons. I don't know if there are statistics that show that women in general are less intelligent then men."

That to me reads like a pretty clear defense of that line of thought. After that he goes into his own reasons. But he leaves the option open that those differences might be there instead of saying: this is clearly bullshit.

And then again, we should not ignore the other issues surrounding this video which show some troubling things around him.

 

[Liquid-San]

"I understand what he is trying to say. He is not saying women should earn less, he is saying they are because of these reasons. I don't know if there are statistics that show that women in general are less intelligent then men."

Playing devil's advocate here, are you sure the emboldened part isn't him just stating that he isn't sure if there are statistics that exist to corroborate the politician's stance?

 

[Psychoward]

What fuckery?

fucking really?


https://www.themarysue.com/laci-green-terf-impression/


https://theestablishment.co/the-sad...ro-turned-anti-feminist-defender-322515344297

 

[MUnited83]

What fuckery?

Alt-right fuckery.

 

[LinkAndEpona]

I'm going to back this up. I read the OP, but what it seems like is that PewDiePie misinterpreted this man's stance. Even if we go by the quote, PewDiePie himself comes up with a reason that wasn't even quoted by the Polish politician, which is women are being paid less than men because they're accepting lower pay, working less hours, etc. If anyone can point me to where he explicitly agrees with the statement that women are less intelligent than men, please feel free to do so. Until then, I'm going to say this is a thread with a clickbait title and as usual, many users on Gaf are just read to polish their pitchforks for a witch hunt on someone they dislike.

Basically PDP shouldn't even have given this guy the time but yea, he was in no way actually agreeing with him.

Overreactions and misunderstandings are a huge problem we need to work on.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Playing devil's advocate here, are you sure the emboldened part isn't him just stating that he isn't sure if there are statistics that exist to corroborate the politician's stance?

I don't know. But it doesn't really matter. But to me he leaves the option open. And that is pretty much the way these kind of things work: lean into the issue so people are going "well, that might be right then" but don't actually say it.

You can read anything into it, depending on your standpoint. And then that can always be used as an excuse. I didn't explicitly say that, it was ironic, it was just a joke, you are reading things into it. Which is funny, since the dude made his career from presenting videos for over a decade, so you'd think he would be good by now in getting his points across without confusion and leaving so many questions open.

I just don't get why he felt the need to even give this guy a podium on his channel. It just seems strange and has too much overlap with questionable views to me to excuse him for it, also in light of his history and the company he keeps.

The worst part is the extent to which we'll go to badmouth people and drag their names through the mud, but we would never publicly apologize or anything. NeoGAF is meant to be one of the more progressive forums out there, but ever since this Trump Administration debacle, the way some of these users carry themselves behind a computer is downright embarrassing.

When celebrities with a lot of influence and reach do damaging things, I don't see an issue with calling them out for it.

 

[Mysterious]

This dude looks like he's been rejected by women all his life. Probably never even held hands with one because he's afraid their grip might be too strong for his weak little hands.

 

[Liquid-San]

Basically PDP shouldn't even have given this guy the time but yea, he was in no way actually agreeing with him.

Overreactions and misunderstandings are a huge problem we need to work on.

The worst part is the extent to which we'll go to badmouth people and drag their names through the mud, but we would never publicly apologize or anything. NeoGAF is meant to be one of the more progressive forums out there, but ever since this Trump Administration debacle, the way some of these users carry themselves behind a computer is downright embarrassing.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

The worst part is the extent to which we'll go to badmouth people and drag their names through the mud, but we would never publicly apologize or anything. NeoGAF is meant to be one of the more progressive forums out there, but ever since this Trump Administration debacle, the way some of these users carry themselves behind a computer is downright embarrassing.

Lol

Who is this performance for?

 

[Trident]

fucking really?


https://www.themarysue.com/laci-green-terf-impression/


https://theestablishment.co/the-sad...ro-turned-anti-feminist-defender-322515344297

All right, I just spent around 20 minutes watching 2 videos quoted by the person above me, neither of which seemed to contain any trans-exclusionary comments, and the first reference that second article has is to the same 2 videos for the exact same baseless accusations.

Are there any specific comments Laci has made recently that show an exclusion of trans people? E.g., trans women are not women, people should not have their pronouns, or use the bathroom of their gender, etc?

Am I missing the main thrust of this condemnation?

 

[Liquid-San]

I don't know. But it doesn't really matter. But to me he leaves the option open. And that is pretty much the way these kind of things work: lean into the issue so people are going "well, that might be right then" but don't actually say it.

You can read anything into it, depending on your standpoint. And then that can always be used as an excuse. I didn't explicitly say that, it was ironic, it was just a joke, you are reading things into it. Which is funny, since the dude made his career from presenting videos for over a decade, so you'd think he would be good by now in getting his points across without confusion and leaving so many questions open.

I just don't get why he felt the need to even give this guy a podium on his channel. It just seems strange and has too much overlap with questionable views to me to excuse him for it, also in light of his history and the company he keeps.

I understand your point of view as a poster, (and I agree with you as well that he shouldn't even have given this guy the time of day), but I think when the bigger issue here is when it comes to OPs we're being too lackadaisical as a community with what gets posted. PewDiePie didn't say anything inherently wrong, yet the OP is clearly bias in his standpoint of taking down this man's public persona. Then this is only further perpetuated because MANY users don't even fully read the OP, and sadly more misinformation is circulated around the internet.

Lol

Who is this performance for?

Thanks for your contribution to the discussion, we would've been lost without your wise words.

When celebrities with a lot of influence and reach do damaging things, I don't see an issue with calling them out for it.

I agree, but here we're running a false narrative.

 

[L Thammy]

The worst part is the extent to which we'll go to badmouth people and drag their names through the mud, but we would never publicly apologize or anything. NeoGAF is meant to be one of the more progressive forums out there, but ever since this Trump Administration debacle, the way some of these users carry themselves behind a computer is downright embarrassing.

It is pretty sad. I mean, it's not like PewDiePie, a wealthy white male, used this as an opportunity to tell other people that they aren't less privileged and that it's their own fault that they get paid less.

What they didn’t take into account was pretty much anything at all, like women working less hours, women choosing less high-paying jobs and so on

If you’re a female watching this, I want you to know that you are not what the media or politicians or people on Twitter try to tell you… or even what I am [trying to tell you]. You’re not weak, you are not less privileged, you are strong. I think it’s a real unhealthy way of looking at things. What happened to ‘I am a woman hear me roar?’ It’s become ‘I am a woman, I earn less than men'

Oh, wait, that's exactly what he did.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

I understand your point of view as a poster, (and I agree with you as well that he shouldn't even have given this guy the time of day), but I think when the bigger issue here is when it comes to OPs we're being too lackadaisical as a community with what gets posted. PewDiePie didn't say anything inherently wrong yet the OP is clearly bias in his standpoint of taking down this man's public persona. Then this is only further perpetuated because MANY users don't even fully read the OP, and sadly more misinformation is circulated around the internet.



Thanks for your contribution to the discussion, we would've been lost without your wise words.

Oh, so you are genuinely upset that some people don't just roll over for idiocy.

Well, good luck in the future

 

[Liquid-San]

Oh, so you are genuinely upset that some people don't just roll over for idiocy.

Well, good luck in the future

I'm not upset and I won't lose sleep over it. Just engaging in healthy discussion to understand the mindset of some of the users in the community I love.

It is pretty sad. I mean, it's not like PewDiePie, a wealthy white male, used this as an opportunity to tell other people that they aren't less privileged and that it's their own fault that they get paid less.

Oh, wait, that's exactly what he did.

This would've been a much better OP to expand upon, but from my perspective it seems the OP was to talk about how PewDiePie believes women are less intelligent than men.

 

[ClosingADoor]

I understand your point of view as a poster, (and I agree with you as well that he shouldn't even have given this guy the time of day), but I think when the bigger issue here is when it comes to OPs we're being too lackadaisical as a community with what gets posted. PewDiePie didn't say anything inherently wrong, yet the OP is clearly bias in his standpoint of taking down this man's public persona. Then this is only further perpetuated because MANY users don't even fully read the OP, and sadly more misinformation is circulated around the internet.

I agree, but here we're running a false narrative.

I don't see the false narrative. We are discussing the video. Someone wrote an article about it, the OP agrees with that article and posted it here for others to read. There are no lies in it.

Oh, wait, that's exactly what he did.

I still wonder at what point "women" got replaced by "female" in a lot of peoples vocabulary on the internet. It just sounds so... strange.

 

[L Thammy]

This would've been a much better OP to expand upon, but from my perspective it seems the OP was to talk about how PewDiePie believes women are less intelligent than men.

That's the context he did it in, though. He responded to someone who said that women are less intelligent then men by saying that they earn less because they've given up and should stop complaining about the issues they face.

 

[Liquid-San]

I don't see the false narrative. We are discussing the video. Someone wrote an article about it, the OP agrees with that article and posted it here for others to read. There are no lies in it.

My apologies, I didn't view the video so I only know as much as the OP goes on to show. And lol, I'm reaching in my responses to you and I'd hate to do that, but I guess I'm just triggered by the thread itself a bit - that's where I'm alluding to this false narrative being portrayed. If someone were to glimpse at just the responses, we would assume that PewDiePie does in fact believe women are inferior to men.

 

[Slayven]

Oh, so you are genuinely upset that some people don't just roll over for idiocy.

Well, good luck in the future

Tone Storm Trooping