I feel like the Mood Matrix would make a lot more sense during investigation segments, rather than as another form of cross-examination. It always feels really forced when it comes up in the courtroom, but it would fit in a lot better out in the world.
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Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney - Spirit of Justice |OT| Khura'in, not Kurain
- Thread starter GSR
- Start date
I feel like the Mood Matrix would make a lot more sense during investigation segments, rather than as another form of cross-examination. It always feels really forced when it comes up in the courtroom, but it would fit in a lot better out in the world.
http://www.vice.com/read/phoenix-en...g-has-lasted-for-15-years-ace-attorney-capcom
nice piece on ace attorney in general with spoilers for case 1 of AA6.
nice piece on ace attorney in general with spoilers for case 1 of AA6.
Already Torn
Banned
I don't know how intentional this is, but I really like how this game exposes how over-reliance on religion can be used to commit acts of evil while also making it clear that the religion/spiritual aspects are real. It's nice and keeps the whole thing from being too mean spirited.
Nocturnowl
Member
Thinking about it, my AA5 positioning is mostly carried by the combo of Blackquill and Turnabout Reclaimed.
It could probably fall down the list.
AA4 in general has the odd distinction of best opener combined with absolute worst case (for me anyway) with 4-3.
Of course I also have to admit my mood was getting soured on Case 5 of AAI2 for one late chapter investigation segment with little thief stumping me for soooo long.
Rise from the Ashes is the truth.
It could probably fall down the list.
Looking back I find AA4's usage of rather uncooperative or tricky defendants to be a nice quirk in the formula, especially after a game like this one where you're not exactly going to doubt anything about Maya or Trucy for instance.
AA4 in general has the odd distinction of best opener combined with absolute worst case (for me anyway) with 4-3.
No game does the overarching plot better than AAI2, I just found the whole thing got a bit long in the tooth for each case though, as is my recurring trend with more recent AA games.
Of course I also have to admit my mood was getting soured on Case 5 of AAI2 for one late chapter investigation segment with little thief stumping me for soooo long.
Rise from the Ashes is the truth.
Just finished it (haven't bought the DLC yet). That last case was a ride and a half, but I'll leave that for the spoiler thread.
I really enjoyed it! Big step up from AA5, though I think the game's still a bit excessive in its handholding. What's the point of being able to squeeze extra testimony of out of three statements if your partner at the bench is gonna point out which one is the correct one? I don't understand why they're treating the player as an idiot when it's the sixth game in the main series. Wasn't quite as dumb as AA5 though where they'd straight out tell you the contradiction in some cases, but almost. Still, game managed to stump me a few times!
Game felt like a Apollo Justice 2 in a lot of ways which is a good thing, as I was more than a little bit disappointed with how they dropped most of AA4's universe and cast for AA5 and made Phoenix the main guy again. And yeah, he's not a terribly interesting character in this game either.
Character artwork was also pretty awesome, with some glaring exceptions like Phoenix's terrible model/"sprite".
Oh, and case 4 was pretty bad, with the exception of some fun characters. They really gave up when localizing that one, huh? I guess one just to have imagine the PW version of America is as big on Japanese culture as Japan is on theirs.
While I have no desire to get less value they could just as well have made it (free) DLC, as the main game is pretty lengthy as it is.
I'm terrible at ranking stuff, especially since I haven't played the originals in forever. But I'd say I'd make the top four AA1, AA3, AA4 and this in some order.
Did anyone go back and look at the episode selection artwork btw? It's simple 3D layering of flat images but it looks really cool for some reason.
I really enjoyed it! Big step up from AA5, though I think the game's still a bit excessive in its handholding. What's the point of being able to squeeze extra testimony of out of three statements if your partner at the bench is gonna point out which one is the correct one? I don't understand why they're treating the player as an idiot when it's the sixth game in the main series. Wasn't quite as dumb as AA5 though where they'd straight out tell you the contradiction in some cases, but almost. Still, game managed to stump me a few times!
Game felt like a Apollo Justice 2 in a lot of ways which is a good thing, as I was more than a little bit disappointed with how they dropped most of AA4's universe and cast for AA5 and made Phoenix the main guy again. And yeah, he's not a terribly interesting character in this game either.
Character artwork was also pretty awesome, with some glaring exceptions like Phoenix's terrible model/"sprite".
Oh, and case 4 was pretty bad, with the exception of some fun characters. They really gave up when localizing that one, huh? I guess one just to have imagine the PW version of America is as big on Japanese culture as Japan is on theirs.
While I have no desire to get less value they could just as well have made it (free) DLC, as the main game is pretty lengthy as it is.I'm terrible at ranking stuff, especially since I haven't played the originals in forever. But I'd say I'd make the top four AA1, AA3, AA4 and this in some order.
Did anyone go back and look at the episode selection artwork btw? It's simple 3D layering of flat images but it looks really cool for some reason.
Top Tier: AA3, AAI2, AA1, AA6
Middle Tier: AA4, AA5, PLvAA
Bottom Tier: AA2, AAI1, DGS
I can't do a more exact ranking and I actually enjoyed every single game, so even "bottom" tier is actually really good imho.
Hahaha I keep thinking this too
Just about to start the second trial of case 3. It's been fun so far, I really like
Datz's gigantic mouth and peeling apples with the big knife
The side characters in this game have been very endearing to me so far. Even Rayfa is growing on me since it seems like (case 3 behaviour)
she wants to show off in front of Phoenix and secretly cares what he thinks
Also generally, it feels SO good to wipe the smug smiles off the opponents' faces. Especially when Phoenix is in his DLC outfit!
Spinosaurus
Member
Case 5 day 1 investigation
Having Wright wear the Furio Tigre suit makes this so, so fitting.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Can we talk about how beautiful the Khura'in courtroom is? Especially in the key art, but also in-game. I love its more colorful atmosphere, and it feels like a holy place.
ActStriker
Member
Urgh, what's the name of the song that plays when Prosecutor Sahdmadhi reads from his scroll at the beginning of a trial? It plays during those opening arguments, as other times through the game I can't remember off the top of my head.
Two cases in and FUCK the prosecutors in this game.
Sort of enjoying that aspect of the plot and I'm curious to see where it goes.
Seriously murderous fuckers. Payne gloating so hard about sending two people to the chair, then Sahdmadhi being oh-so-righteous while doing the same thing even if by "mistake." Besides Manfred von Karma prosecutors haven't seemed this close to bad in the entire series.
While reading through the discussion on the last page or so, this is the thought that largely occurred to me as well. I personally think that the roles of the mood matrix and Apollo's perception should be swapped from their current positions.
I don't mind any of the different mechanics individually, but the way they've all been particularly implemented has been muddled a lot for the sake of streamlining the pace of the gameplay and that's something I'm less enamored with. Mood Matrix segments are at their most boring when at their most basic ("why did you feel happy when you saw the body?!"), but the twists they added to that formula, particularly in her dealing with "out of control" witnesses is at least a lot of fun thematically (dat music). Having her therapy sessions on-hand when trying to get information out of a neutral witness out in the field would be both useful as well as more thematically appropriate than side-tracking court proceedings like they currently do. Still I wouldn't want to throw it out entirely, because some of the revelations that have come from her talent have led to some of the best witness surprises in the series (for me, 5-3's
Robin
Uendo
On the flip side, I found Apollo's perception ability to be a really neat twist, and made more sense in the courtroom when the pressure of testifying made for more of a reason for witnesses to flub up or reveal tells. Having an entire testimony segment and being told "okay there's something to look for in here" forced a bit of actual logical work to be done on the part of the player, looking either for pieces of testimony that seemed suspicious but couldn't be immediately objected to, or even studying the shifts in witness animations between dialog-segments to see which actions or poses could most easily be singled-out to give a closer look to. As it stands now, they way they've appeared in this game and Dual Destinies, you're already flown to the one text-box worth of dialog to examine, not to mention that the tells in particular recently have all been really obvious. It was more challenging as a cross-examination tool rather than investigation, and I appreciated it more for that.
As for Psyche-locks, they've always felt like the weakest of the three since it just boils down to presenting evidence to a witness just like you always would already, but I agree with the folks that have mentioned the way that they no longer act as a real roadblock. Why bother locking the door when you know you'll already have the key?
I haven't finished the game yet so I don't know what the state of the Agency will be for a potential sequel, but running on the presumption that everyone's still around, I think I'd prefer the bulk of the next game or two focus on Apollo as the primary lead, with Athena acting as his assistant, and perhaps throw in a case or two where Athena leads and has Phoenix overseeing her, trying to grow her to the point where Apollo seems to be getting now, where both of them could act independently in the future. This game seems to be tying up a lot of Apollo's loose ends, so I could actually see the 7th game delving back into Athena and her development a bit more, perhaps introduce a case or two that deals with some of what happened while she studied abroad? That feels like one of the few threads left that could deliver some personal relevance to the three main attorneys and hasn't already been significantly touched-on.
Such a good track <3
WaterAstro
Member
The feature prosecutor has really been sucking the further we get from Miles Edgeworth being in court. The new guy just plain sucks at being prosecutor.
Yeah I know what's coming in Case 5.
Burning Justice
the superior princess
Now that I'm finished with Trails of Cold Steel II, gonna start this up today. Let's see how it goes!
Nocturnowl
Member
You're not alone.
For me It's decent, it's functional but lacking overall.
Of course others disagree.
The Bankslammer
Member
yeah i have to admit i'm not huge on this game's soundtrack compared to other recent AA games. i'm not sure if it's because iwadare isn't the sole composer or what, because i normally love his stuff. honestly, my favorite stuff this game were carryovers from AA5
i'm fine is still so fuckin good
i'm fine is still so fuckin good
Hcoregamer00
The 'H' stands for hentai.
The frustrating thing is that the best songs from AA6 is undoubtedly Iwadare, like the godly cross examination and allegro version of the cross examination song. I think seperating the music to Iwadare and two others did harm the overall quality of the soundtrack, since Iwadare has the best pieces of the soundtrack.
Daria Morgendorffer
Member
Most of the normal case music is good to me, but some tracks in the Khura'in sections are a bit, subpar, but those sections still have some good themes
Hcoregamer00
The 'H' stands for hentai.
You could tell Iwadare's work because his work has a "Jazzy" feel to it, and he loves using the electric guitar. Sorry I saw his concert in Japan Expo USA, and once you seen him perform, you could pick up his style pretty easily.
Of the trio of composers for AA6, his songs are the strongest and the most memorable ones.
Cross Examination tracks are great.
Investigation Core might be the best Investigation yet.
Apollo and Athena's Objection themes are better than ever. The remixes in general are on point.
I think a lot of the weaker tracks are individual character/area theme tracks. Anything Khu'rain themed is also a lot more chill than normal, which doesn't suit a game where the energy and emotion is almost entirely informed by the music as there's rarely voice acting. There's a weird mix of some tracks having the Eastern feel for Khu'rain and the others just having a synth sound like Pursuit for some reason.
Still great and noticeably better than most games.
Investigation Core might be the best Investigation yet.
Apollo and Athena's Objection themes are better than ever. The remixes in general are on point.
I think a lot of the weaker tracks are individual character/area theme tracks. Anything Khu'rain themed is also a lot more chill than normal, which doesn't suit a game where the energy and emotion is almost entirely informed by the music as there's rarely voice acting. There's a weird mix of some tracks having the Eastern feel for Khu'rain and the others just having a synth sound like Pursuit for some reason.
Still great and noticeably better than most games.
I think both DGS and Layton vs Wright soundtracks add the style/atmosphere of their worlds to their soundtrack better than AA6.
Aaron Strife
Banned
Honestly I've always had an issue with how the prosecutors in AA games get blatant favoritism and Sahdmadhi takes that up by a gazillion.
But I know that's kind of the point, as it's commentary on the Japanese court systems which are similarly slanted against defense attorneys. Still, Sahdmadhi tying that into his high and mighty bullshit somehow comes off as more frustrating than usual (really judge, you're just going to let him talk about the defense attorney burning in hell and everything? He acts like this in cases 2 and 4 too).
Case 4
the Judge letting Sahdmadhi bully Athena without any repercussion... blegh.
I was really hoping they were gonna pull a PWvsPL and have two entirely separate sets of court themes... but I guess the "Court Begins" and investigation themes are something, at least.
Love all three of the Objection! themes, though.
WaterAstro
Member
I had to skip the Case 4. I was falling asleep.
I didn't mind Case 2, but it still bothered me. These cases just have nothing to do with the main story and it just a bummer. And it's probably because Sahdmadhi is such a stupid prosecutor. Just spouts stupid religious hell nonsense at every turn he gets.
I didn't mind Case 2, but it still bothered me. These cases just have nothing to do with the main story and it just a bummer. And it's probably because Sahdmadhi is such a stupid prosecutor. Just spouts stupid religious hell nonsense at every turn he gets.
I like filler cases. If everything is informing some grand mastermind of a plot it feels like it's all way too big of a coincidence where it's all connected. For my liking there needs to be some well done justification for everything coming together - which AA5 lacked in places - whereas it's very easy for me to accept one off cases because that seems a lot more incidental to lawyer life. That the original trilogy's arc takes place over three games really helps.
And even Case 2 informs Trucy and Troupe Gramarye so it's certainly adding to the established world.
And even Case 2 informs Trucy and Troupe Gramarye so it's certainly adding to the established world.
Poltergust
Member
Who did Rayfa's theme? I'm not a fan of most of the Khura'inese tracks, but that one really stood out to me.
Also, what's the name of it?
WaterAstro
Member
I guess I really couldn't stand Case 4 was because there is a huge cliffhanger with Case 3 that I really couldn't care less about this random filler case. I really wanted to know what was going to happen next.
I think they took a gamble with this two country idea and it didn't fully pan out.
No doubt
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
The "filler" in this game was more enjoyable than the filler in most AA games, IMO. I was never a huge fan of AA3 or AA4's filler cases, and AA2's were almost outright bad. I realize this is probably a minority opinion.
Magnet_Man
Member
I don't really need that, but filler cases should add something. In 1-3,
it was the start of Edgeworth's transformation and also helped create a sense of normalcy so that 1-4's deviation from the formula sets the player off guard
the Edgeworth tease at the end
Godot can't see red on white surfaces and that his visor emits a light
The penultimate case should help structure your mindset and set the tone before going into the final case. 6-4 does none that.
It's a harmless and inoffensive case but I thought it was a massive detriment to the pacing of the game especially after the first two cases didn't catch my interest. And since it could've been cut with no impact to the overall narrative, I can't help but feel it was wasting my time. It would've been better if 6-4 was removed and offered as DLC and 6-5 being split into two episodes. It would've done it infinitely better than how 5-4 and 5-5 were handled.
Unyielding Medium Princess
WaterAstro
Member
Ah so there's only 5 episodes. I thought that there was going to be 6 since this 5th one doesn't seem like it's going to be
finishing where it started
D
Deleted member 465307
Unconfirmed Member
I've pondered this possibility, too. Perhaps they could have priced the game at $25 or something. But I've also wondered how potentially reordering the game would have worked. Say...
Put 6-4 first. Phoenix leaves for Khurai'in and Apollo is helping Trucy prepare for her first ever televised magic show and that's why Athena is handling it. We first meet the prosecutor and learn that something is weird about him. This would foreshadow the game's events.
Put 6-1 second. Make the case longer (two days). Have Payne handle the first day and then when he disappoints, have Sahdmahdi take over to show how it's really supposed to be done (he's just now returned from his stay in the US where he met Athena). We now see the prosecutor in his natural environment and understand more about him.
Put 6-2 third, basically unchanged, with 6-3 and 6-5 following as fourth and fifth. The first part of 6-5 kind of already serves as the slow down before the revolution really ramps up, giving you a break while still building towards the inevitable conclusion.
I think the one major issue with leading with a filler case could be that people could lose interest. One solution could be to add more intrigue to Sahdmahdi to make him the reason people keep playing. "Who was that guy?" If they'd played up the whole "he can see the future of the trial and manipulates you to achieve that" more, that might be compelling enough. I'd also propose trying out 6-1 followed by 6-4 and 6-2. You'd then not have to make the changes to 6-1 that I proposed.
Put 6-1 second. Make the case longer (two days). Have Payne handle the first day and then when he disappoints, have Sahdmahdi take over to show how it's really supposed to be done (he's just now returned from his stay in the US where he met Athena). We now see the prosecutor in his natural environment and understand more about him.
Put 6-2 third, basically unchanged, with 6-3 and 6-5 following as fourth and fifth. The first part of 6-5 kind of already serves as the slow down before the revolution really ramps up, giving you a break while still building towards the inevitable conclusion.
I think the one major issue with leading with a filler case could be that people could lose interest. One solution could be to add more intrigue to Sahdmahdi to make him the reason people keep playing. "Who was that guy?" If they'd played up the whole "he can see the future of the trial and manipulates you to achieve that" more, that might be compelling enough. I'd also propose trying out 6-1 followed by 6-4 and 6-2. You'd then not have to make the changes to 6-1 that I proposed.
Lumination
'enry 'ollins
Started first trial section of case 5.
WTFFFFFFFFFFF. Already a candidate for best case ever. Of course PW has some ulterior motive like to help AJ grow and simultaneously oust this mysterious benefactor. Still, this is like better than Red in Pokemon GS.
Already Torn
Banned
Case 2 gives some nice closure to Apollo Justice, I feel like the whole magic stuff was completely ignored in 5 when it was the focus of 4.
Silent_Ocarina
Member
Just started Case 4, and the main prosecutor is seriously grating now. I can't stand him!
In the middle of case 3 and I like it so far but it feels like Capcom went too far with the production values. I enjoy it but at the same time I wonder how much it cost and how much more the game must sell for the series to be considered viable. I really don't want them to stop making AA games because of needlessly inflated budgets; all I want is good cases, the bells and whistles are completely unnecessary.
Some more thoughts:
-Don't like how Khura'in is portrayed as barbaric with several foreigners just coming in and taking top positions.
-Way too many flashbacks. Was this game made for people with the memory capacity of a goldfish?
-It feels good that everyone treats Phoenix like dirt. His ascension to godhood in AA5 was unbearable and made no sense.
-The main prosecutor grates on my nerves but that makes defeating him all the more satisfying. However, his karmic philosophy or whatever needs a serious overhaul. "Hey, I almost convicted an innocent person, but you, the person who unveiled the truth and made sure justice will be served, will go to hell." Yeah... ok.
EDIT: One more thing. "Musically inclined" witnesses suck. That rapper in AA5 and now this guitarist... ugh. Their shtick gets old after a minute but they just keep going and going.
Some more thoughts:
-Don't like how Khura'in is portrayed as barbaric with several foreigners just coming in and taking top positions.
-Way too many flashbacks. Was this game made for people with the memory capacity of a goldfish?
-It feels good that everyone treats Phoenix like dirt. His ascension to godhood in AA5 was unbearable and made no sense.
-The main prosecutor grates on my nerves but that makes defeating him all the more satisfying. However, his karmic philosophy or whatever needs a serious overhaul. "Hey, I almost convicted an innocent person, but you, the person who unveiled the truth and made sure justice will be served, will go to hell." Yeah... ok.
EDIT: One more thing. "Musically inclined" witnesses suck. That rapper in AA5 and now this guitarist... ugh. Their shtick gets old after a minute but they just keep going and going.
Finished case 3 great story.
It was kinda clunky gameplay wise as in it really did want you to remember tiny details which sucks if you take a few days to do each case.
I totally guessed my way to that
Why not give me flashbacks for things like that?
I feel like they are trying to make this game harder each entry but the game falls apart if you make the present evidence too obtuse.
And am I crazy or is the court records navigation more of a pain in the 3ds games than in the past? I swear the ds games had more info on each screen. Was definitely 2 or so rows.
It was kinda clunky gameplay wise as in it really did want you to remember tiny details which sucks if you take a few days to do each case.
I totally guessed my way to that
peach tattoo thing. I don't even remember this being talked about.
Why not give me flashbacks for things like that?
I feel like they are trying to make this game harder each entry but the game falls apart if you make the present evidence too obtuse.
And am I crazy or is the court records navigation more of a pain in the 3ds games than in the past? I swear the ds games had more info on each screen. Was definitely 2 or so rows.
-Mutsukki-
Member
They definitely talk about it, and you have that information, though kinda random, at the priest's autopsy report about monk marks and stuff like that
Well he's in a foreign country so it makes sense, but he should be treated like the famous person he is back home. I would say AA5 did the exact opposite and voided his character development in AA4. 10 years is a really long time, 35 years old Phoenix shouldn't be a carbon copy of his 25 years old self
Nah, there were only one row at most. Although some of the previous games would allow you to present profiles as well.
At least on the versions I've played anyway.
Dang. I don't think I've ever opened that.
My blunder then. Bah.
3am. Guess I'll start case 4 in the morning.
-Mutsukki-
Member
For everyone that have finished the game already:
Am I the only one who thinks this game shouldn't have Phoenix's name in the title at all? It's really all about Apollo and his character development that got shelved in AA5. I hate how Capcom USA have to pander to his popularity, it's really unfair, AA shouldn't just be about Phoenix when it's not his time to shine anymore
oh shit you're right, totally forgot about the logo. That makes it even worse
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