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[TrutaS]

Love the PE updates, I kickstarted a few games already but they don't do updates like these guys. Too bad next week there will be none.

 

[Violet_0]

this is really shaping up to be the true Baldur's Gate successor, looks terrific so far

 

[Patryn]

I have to say that Obsidian is showing how these Kickstarter projects should be done with their updates.

I can't wait to get my hands on the finished game.

 

[SquiddyCracker]

I am so giddy for this :3

 

[AstroZombie]

Sawyer has been answering questions on the Obsidian forums: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/63696-update-51-prototype-2-update/

Edit: See if this works, it should redirect to Sawyer's posting history: http://tinyurl.com/b2gkxjb

 

[Labadal]

Sawyer has been answering questions on the Obsidian forums: http://forums.obsidian.net/index.ph...6874798a1c4d750de552faf2f4&search_app_filters[forums][searchInKey]=&userMode=content

I recommend reading his responses. I find them interesting and they haven't been posted in any update. I'd copy/paste but I'm on my phone.

 

[AstroZombie]

I completely butchered that link, lemme see if I can fix it.

 

[duckroll]

Try using something like http://tinyurl.com/

 

[AstroZombie]

Ziets was interviewed by RPGCodex, some choice quotes:

I’m not in charge of either project, so it probably won’t be me who’s making those decisions on PE or T:TON. For example, if it was entirely up to me, we’d have turn-based combat… which in itself is something that a Kickstarter can do that most publisher-funded games currently cannot.

Baldur’s Gate 2 generally did this well. When I traveled to each of the major areas (Umar Hills, De’arnise Keep, etc.), I felt like I was entering a coherent side story – a self-contained D&D module - where all the dialogues and quests were focused on telling the area’s story and/or the player’s own. That’s what we tried to do on MotB, too.

I look at quests through a similar lens. Every quest is an opportunity to explore another facet of the narrative. We should use them to deepen the player’s experience of the area’s story and setting and explore how different people/factions would react to the same events. I don’t think we should ever have to resort to “generic” quests in a well-designed RPG.

And for those of you who didn't know, Obsidian was working on a Baldur's Gate 3 with Turn-based combat:

Turn-based combat, as mentioned above. When Obsidian was (briefly) working on Baldur’s Gate 3, the design team spent a couple days putting together a proposal for a turn-based combat system, but it was dead on arrival. It wasn’t considered viable for a mass market RPG.

http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=8952

 

[zkylon]

if you ask me real time with pause is flawed to the core

 

[rakhir]

if you ask me real time with pause is flawed to the core

Turn-based combat is one of the reasons i never finished Temple of Elemental Evil. Every encounter, even with easy skeletons, took ages to get through and was absolutely boring.
I know it was probably the most faithful rendition of D&D in games, but it just didn't work for me.

 

[zkylon]

Turn-based combat is one of the reasons i never finished Temple of Elemental Evil. Every encounter, even with easy skeletons, took ages to get through and was absolutely boring.
I know it was probably the most faithful rendition of D&D in games, but it just didn't work for me.

I'm not a fan of D&D at all, rtwp just has always been unfun for me, specially in the infinity engine games (dragon age is a recent example I found to be actually fun). too hectic, always a mess of unintelligible spells and colors, and very difficult to strategize in. I never feel like I'm really in control, it's always like I'm fighting the game.

haven't played toee in a while, but I'm sure you could add a button to speed up or skip animations and stuff and that'd be better

 

[Sentenza]

if you ask me real time with pause is flawed to the core

I don't think it is *intrinsically* flawed, generally speaking, but I'm going to pick a pure turn based combat over a RTWP at any moment, because given the same ruleset, there are far more chances to have a tactically interesting and well balanced combat with the former.

 

[AstroZombie]

What I do find interesting are all the tribes and factions – Great Khans, Twisted Hairs, New Canaanites. Where did they come from, how do they survive, how do they relate to one another?

So if I could design another Fallout game… I might not design a traditional RPG at all. Instead, think of a strategy-RPG hybrid like King of Dragon Pass – set in the Fallout universe. You’re placed in the role of the tribe’s leaders, responsible for establishing a home base, keeping your people safe and fed, exploring the surrounding wasteland, and managing relations with other tribes and factions.

You’d mold the future of your tribe by plundering knowledge from Vaults and ruins and deciding whether to utilize that knowledge/technology or keep it hidden from your people. Revealing old world secrets would always have consequences, both positive (e.g., economic or military benefits) and negative (e.g., jealousy or fear from your neighbors). Unearthing stories from the old world might unlock opportunities to change the organization and personality of your tribe - think of how old-world stories opened possibilities for Caesar or the Three Families. You’d also choose how to feed and supply your people - by looting ruins, raiding other tribes, or trying to rediscover secrets of agriculture and animal husbandry from the Vaults. Ultimately, you’d have to decide how to survive in the face of external threats. Would you build a slave empire like Caesar, establish a democratic federation of tribes, or just turn to cannibalism and prey on your neighbors? It may or may not have mass market appeal… but I’d play that game.

I'd back the shit out of this game if he made a Kickstarter.

 

[Taruranto]

I just noticed Sawyer post about BG2, (haven't followed the project at all recently, i tried to stay away as much as possible) and i really can't agree with him at all.

- The fact that you had so many characters full of personality was one of the best aspect of the game. Sure, they don't have Dak'kon or Morte level of characterization, but in a game like SoA, you have to compromise. I think they did more than well for such a large cast of characters.

- You don't necessarily have to save Imoen. The game prompts you two dialogs option always. When a companion joins you, you can say you are after Irenicus.

The third point is kinda personal, so i'll leave it.

- Highly disagree with this point. I loved Athkatla, it felt alive, i loved how every building had a quest or a relevant NPC or a battle. The pacing was excellent and you could always skip them if you didn't like it.

It's easy to criticize the lack of depth in some parts of the game (the game doesn't have for example many stat checks) or how the game doesn't always let you do what you want to do, but considering how big it is and how much it offers not only in term of side-quests but also main quest (everything between Spellhold and Athkatla isn't very important in the grand scheme of thing, but it's the best part of the game imo) they did an excellent job. BG2 may not have Torment story, Mask of the Betrayer C&C or IWD battle system, but it's a perfect mix of them, and that's why it's imo the best wRPG.

 

[zkylon]

I don't think it is *intrinsically* flawed, generally speaking, but I'm going to pick a pure turn based combat over a RTWP at any moment, because given the same ruleset, there are far more chances to have a tactically interesting and well balanced combat with the former.

maybe someone may be able to pull it off but to me rtwp has been always flawed in that they never really made much compromise, it's just basically the mess that would happen if you took out turns from turn based and just made it real time.

and I liked icewind dale but never as much as xcom/fallout. it always felt like a struggle

 

[Emitan]

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/obsidian/project-eternity/posts/474740?ref=activity

But at the core of this class is a little rule about how monks take damage. You see, when a monk gets hit, only part of the damage is inflicted on him or her immediately. The rest is redirected to a Wound, which is an effect that causes damage over time (called a DoT effect) to the monk. That slowly-ticking Wound would only seem to be delaying the inevitable result except for one thing: the monk can get rid of that Wound by using special attacks.

 

[zkylon]

dem vailian afros

 

[Lissar]

Vailian ladies look badass.

 

[The Technomancer]

Monk sounds good. Too good. I really hope they balance it properly so its not incredibly underwhelming or overpowered

 

[inm8num2]

Just hook it in my veins!!!

Great update as usual. I fucking love this. 15 years ago you got a few magazine previews scattered in a period of 1.5 years during game development. Now you can interact directly with the developers and see weekly or biweekly updates.

 

[duckroll]

The Monk sounds fucking great. The gameplay design for Project Eternity is really exciting to read about in updates because it really sounds like they get it. It's not a soulless process of checking off points of what people want, but a lot of the stuff actually sounds original and fun. I can't wait!

 

[SquiddyCracker]

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/obsidian/project-eternity/posts/474740?ref=activity

dem vailian afros

I love this game.

 

[zkylon]

really love how creative they're being with the game design.

 

[peakish]

I love those Jxamitl clothes.

 

[Dresden]

Getting WoW flashbacks with the 'wound' mechanic for Monks. It's a nifty idea though.

 

[Kurtofan]

Liking those designs.

 

[Zeliard]

Still hard to imagine that a little over a year ago, games like Project Eternity and Torment 2 were total pipe dreams. I don't think I'll ever get over the fact that these games are actually being made.

As far as Eternity, what they've been doing with classes so far is enticing, and I'm growing more attracted to the art. The clothing in particular is very nice - the Jxamitl look beautiful. Each clothing style is both distinct and coherent with the other styles, both within a certain culture and overall.

 

[Sentenza]

Still hard to imagine that a little over a year ago, games like Project Eternity and Torment 2 were total pipe dreams. I don't think I'll ever get over the fact that these games are actually being made.

I'm feeling exactly the same.

 

[Anoregon]

Getting WoW flashbacks with the 'wound' mechanic for Monks. It's a nifty idea though.

Yeah, very similar to the Stagger mechanic of Bewmaster monks in WoW, except with the added functionality of turning that deferred damage into boosts to your own damage, which is very cool.

 

[Labadal]

Responses from J.E: Sawyer on the forum:

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. To clarify a few things:

* A percentage of damage done to the monk, after DT, is converted to Wound damage. If the monk gets hit for 100 points of damage, a big chunk of that is still sailing through.

* Wounds are "buckets" of damage, so the monk needs to have that amount filled before they gain the Wound resource.

* Monks start with a limited number of Wounds they can carry at one time. Once that limit is hit, additional damage goes straight through. This is one reason why wearing some amount of armor can be a wise strategic decision, even for a monk.

* Monks' unarmed damage does increase as part of their Transcendent Suffering class ability. This makes their attacks competitive with other fast melee weapons, but their raw damage is nowhere near as high as something like a longsword or a maul. When fighting heavily armored opponents, monks can benefit from using other melee weapons (their special attacks still work with them).

* While monks do have several active-use abilities, Turning Wheel exists to give the monk a passive bonus from fighting with Wounds. If you let a monk with Turning Wheel "ride" for a while, he or she will do additional fire damage on melee hits automatically.

We describe monks in a way that makes them sound powerful because we want you to look forward to playing them, but they are not invincible! They also can't do a lot of the things that other classes can. Their strengths are in mobility, status effects on hits, and resisting/confounding status effects on themselves. They're intended to be melee skirmishers, but they lack the raw damage output of rogues and barbarians, they cannot "hold" enemies like fighters can, and they don't have the command/targeted buff capabilities of paladins.

A passive monk ability

Monks have passive abilities as well. For example, Transcendent Suffering gives them unarmed damage and movement speed bonuses.

More:

Other than Wounds filling more slowly, there are no monk-specific negative effects from wearing heavier armor. Many of their special attacks last for a duration rather than a single attack, so if they're wearing heavy armor that decreases attack speed (or using a shield or two-handed weapon that attacks more slowly), they may have fewer applications of those special attacks. But if you need the shield for its Deflection bonus or a larger weapon for armor-penetrating capabilities, you can use them just fine.

 

[Labadal]

More responses from Sawyer:

You can't change armor during combat in PE.

Any lore specific reasons behind the existance of monks in the region/world?

are they a secluded order or do the go out and proselytize?

are they religious or philosophical monks? etc.

We'll probably do a lore update for them in the future, but here are the basics:

* Centuries ago, one man founded the fighting monastic disciplines. He was an old warrior who had knocked on death's door many times and had endured numerous periods of captivity and torture. He discovered a method of mentally focusing on his pain to invoke power from his soul. When he left the service of his lord, he devoted his time to developing these techniques and teaching them to other warriors (in this way, he can be seen as a sort of cross between Ignatius of Loyola and Suzuki Shōsan). He believed that mortification of the flesh not only made warriors more powerful, but that it strengthened the souls of its practitioners, making it more likely that their souls would remain intact (i.e., not fragment) when they died. He advocated fighting with bare fists and without armor to emphasize a fighting monk's personal suffering.

* Because the founder of these disciplines was old when he began teaching and died only a few decades later, there are now many different monastic orders. Some are more secluded, some are mendicant travelers, some are mercenaries. They all tend to believe, like their founder, that combat is the ideal path for pursuing their particular brand of mortification of the flesh. Some choose to pursue this in dedicated service, some become mercenaries or assassins, and others devote their lives to dangerous wandering and exploration. There are other groups that also practice mortification of the flesh, but they are not "fighting" monks.

* Monks believe in the fundamental philosophy of mortification of the flesh, but different orders and individuals have wildly different takes on it. Some monks (and entire orders) are very religious, but the founder was not religious and the discipline does not depend on religion. Most monks see the disciplines as a method of self-improvement that can co-exist with (or without) religious beliefs.

 

[Mister_Bubbles]

Thanks for copying over those updates Labadal, the lore stuff sounds great. I'm really liking the way souls tie into different aspects of the Eternity world.

 

[Froli]

I wish we can get more more in-game screenshots/mockups
tavern scenario, a weapon/item shop, a visit to the temple... ANYTHING!! lol

 

[duckroll]

I'll rather we get zero updates for long stretches of time while they actually work on the game. Unless they have something worthwhile to show, they shouldn't waste too much time just trying to have something to show to people just because it was crowdfunded. I believe the majority of people who funded this are patient and aren't stupid, so there's no need to pander to us.

 

[zkylon]

I wouldn't say no to more pandering

 

[TrutaS]

I'll rather we get zero updates for long stretches of time while they actually work on the game. Unless they have something worthwhile to show, they shouldn't waste too much time just trying to have something to show to people just because it was crowdfunded. I believe the majority of people who funded this are patient and aren't stupid, so there's no need to pander to us.

I disagree... I want updates and I don't believe they actually prevent anyone from working. They should be accepted as part of the crowd-funding movement.

 

[inm8num2]

I'm enjoying all the mini updates. I say keep them coming.

 

[subversus]

Yeah, I like updates too. Feels good to see how the game shapes up.

 

[inm8num2]

Giddy up. New update not on KS yet but on the Obsidian forum and PE tumblr.

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/63796-update-53-the-man-who-makes-monsters/

http://project-eternity.tumblr.com/post/50475202372/update-53-the-man-who-makes-monsters

 

[zkylon]

pretty pictures!

looks witchery

 

[duckroll]

I disagree... I want updates and I don't believe they actually prevent anyone from working. They should be accepted as part of the crowd-funding movement.

I was referring to the post which requested for more in-game screenshots/mockups though. They're still in a pre-production phase now, and taking time to specifically prepare those things just to create an update does take time away from the the actual iteration process they're going through now.

I would love to see more updates when they actually start working on the game and have stuff to update us on from the actual game development process. Right now, I want less because it's clear they're trying to find their footing with the prototypes and coming up with mock-up scenarios just to create an update is pointless.

 

[Trigger]

pretty pictures!



looks witchery

Reminds me of Japanese onryo with the way the hair falls over their face.

 

[SquiddyCracker]

Haha, that "head splitting" variant

 

[PFD]

pretty pictures!



looks witchery

Did they hire a new artist? These look very different from earlier art, and they're amazing.

 

[zkylon]

Did they hire a new artist? These look very different from earlier art, and they're amazing.

it's done by the same artist, it's just no WIP so people don't freak out for no reason :/

 

[Lancehead]

Heh, that's ironic because now is the time to nitpick and freak out.

 

[dude]

Polina is one of the best concept artists around. People were just freaking out over nothing.

 

[Labadal]

Blurry screen from the game? My mind tells me yes, my eyes remind me that I probably have the worst eyesight on neogaf.

 

[duckroll]

Blurry screen from the game? My mind tells me yes, my eyes remind me that I probably have the worst eyesight on neogaf.

That looks like the village they conceived for the new prototype being built in the Unity editor: