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[Chairman Yang]

Did Sawyer agree with that point? Last I saw he defended RTwP on its own merits and said one isn't necessarily superior to the other. Tim Cain was the one I recall who really wanted turn-based, but maybe Sawyer's changed his mind since.

On the Something Awful forums, he said he preferred turn-based systems and would use one for his personal dream RPG (as opposed to Pillars, which was RTWP specifically to be like the Infinity Engine games). The SA search is weird at the moment, but I'll try to dig up the specific posts where he said so when it's back to normal.

 

[EndcatOmega]

On the Something Awful forums, he said he preferred turn-based systems and would use one for his personal dream RPG (as opposed to Pillars, which was RTWP specifically to be like the Infinity Engine games). The SA search is weird at the moment, but I'll try to dig up the specific posts where he said so when it's back to normal.

This is the best I can find:

 

[Almighty]

Not what I said at all, actually.

I'm sure there is a happy medium - that's why I said let's not pull a ME2 and just get rid of loot entirely, i.e. The extreme other end of the spectrum.

Guess I misunderstood this sentence

Which, frankly, I never understood all the complaints about the first games inventory - it's an RPG, what do you expect?

Anyway I liked the lack of loot in Mass Effect 2 and Shadowrun, but I would be happy with the compromise of keeping unique loot and dropping all the generic crap. If PoE did that we would still have dozens of unique weapons and armor and none of the boring busy work.

 

[decoyplatypus]

Did Sawyer agree with that point? Last I saw he defended RTwP on its own merits and said one isn't necessarily superior to the other. Tim Cain was the one I recall who really wanted turn-based, but maybe Sawyer's changed his mind since.

I have the same recollection. Sawyer has often expressed his desire to make a turn-based game, but he was quick to point out that most turn-based systems don't try to handle full-party, simultaneous actions like RTwP does.

This is why I would be interested in seeing more experimentation with something like this:

I would like a wrpg that adopted a turn based system similar to Frozen Synapse with a planning phase followed by a results phase in which all the plans for both sides (or however many sides there are) happen at the same time with the interactions between the units resolving automatically when they directly engage each other.

Earlier in the thread (or maybe it was the pre-release thread) I tried to think of turn-based games that dealt with simultaneous movement and actions. Maybe the closest would be something like Grandia, where you don't have fine control over positioning, but predicting movement does matter some when you're trying to cancel an enemy's attack. I'd love to see someone push the concept further -- even if it didn't work out in the end.

PoE had some good encounter design. Some of the bounties and fights against enemy adventuring parties, for example. Being turn-based would've made that obvious; as it is, they kind of went by too fast, even with slow mode and frequent pausing.

I think the bounty fights and the boss fights are good fun. But there are probably too many trash encounters in Eternity, even on hard mode.

 

[Blizzard]

This is the best I can find:

Well there's a line for the next OT I guess, lol.

 

[danthefan]

Do the choices you make in sidequests have lasting consequences? For example:

Spoiler

I decided to let Raedric live and I killed Kolsc instead.

I'm always afraid of fucking up choices in RPG.

 

[Nordicus]

This is the best I can find:

I would throw some money at Fuck You: Suck My Dick: Josh Sawyer's Personal Dream RPG Experience

 

[EndcatOmega]

Do the choices you make in sidequests have lasting consequences? For example:

Spoiler

I decided to let Raedric live and I killed Kolsc instead.

I'm always afraid of fucking up choices in RPG.

Not enough of them do, but that one does! Have fun!

 

[Zeliard]

Ah, cool. Yes, it does seem quite likely that the next Obsidian (non PoE-related) project will go turn-based, once they don't feel beholden to following a specific style.

My sense is that given the choice between the two, and without having to keep with any tradition, they'll invariably go with turn-based. Sawyer's made some arguments in favor of RTwP as a form of combat with its own positive qualities, but it's also hard to get away from the sense that the only real reason PoE isn't turn-based is that the IE games weren't. Certainly, that idea has come up very often.

Without those particular shackles, I'd be quite interested in what type of combat they'd go for.

Well there's a line for the next OT I guess, lol.

It's actually what the SA thread uses for its OT, heh.

 

[Sou Da]

I've played a Spiderweb Software game as a a kid, been trying to figure out what it was for awhile now.

 

[Truant]

PoE wouldn't work as is with a turn-based combat system. They would have to cut down a lot of the combat scenarios, they would take way too much time without the real-time elements.

I'd love to see a fully fledged Obsidian RPG with TB combat, though.

 

[Almighty]

Well Obsidian made me like RTwP more then any game i have yet played has, but if they went all Turn based for life that is fine by me. Also I hope when the do their next rumored(Avellone lead) kickstarter they just go all out and just go crazy making the RPG they said they always wanted to.

 

[HK-47]

PoE wouldn't work as is with a turn-based combat system. They would have to cut down a lot of the combat scenarios, they would take way too much time without the real-time elements.

I'd love to see a fully fledged Obsidian RPG with TB combat, though.

Cutting down on (trash mob) combat might be something they should have done.

 

[Hendrick's]

Ah, cool. Yes, it does seem quite likely that the next Obsidian (non PoE-related) project will go turn-based, once they don't feel beholden to following a specific style.

My sense is that given the choice between the two, and without having to keep with any tradition, they'll invariably go with turn-based. Sawyer's made some arguments in favor of RTwP as a form of combat with its own positive qualities, but it's also hard to get away from the sense that the only real reason PoE isn't turn-based is that the IE games weren't. Certainly, that idea has come up very often.

Without those particular shackles, I'd be quite interested in what type of combat they'd go for.



It's actually what the SA thread uses for its OT, heh.

Yeah, good that they are looking to move to a TB model. There is certainly room for innovation there that can massage away some of the rigidness that anti-TB folks dislike.

 

[danthefan]

Not enough of them do, but that one does! Have fun!

Hah thanks. I guess I shouldn't worry about it too much and just play the game.

 

[Labadal]

Today I started the game with the intention of reading up on lore books I have found. There were probably 15-20 new ones I hadn't read before, including notes.

After that, I completed level 6 and 7 of Od Nua. Those blights were a pain in the ass. Then I came to descended to level 8 and met those F devils. I've got almost all groups of enemies down except one. I will try that one tomorrow.

I have a question about the 7th level of Od Nua, spoilers follow:

Spoiler

I activated all the forges but do they actually do anything?

My party is going strong with the Priest and Chanter staying in mid range combat for their auras to be as effective as possible (and chanter summons help). The fighter, I just got a talent that reduces 20% of crits into hits. He's tanking along nicely. My monk is the one that sometime falls, but he punches stuff really hard. The cipher and wizard stay way back and do their thing. I still use mind blades a lot. Puppet master is also nice when it works.

 

[decoyplatypus]

PoE wouldn't work as is with a turn-based combat system. They would have to cut down a lot of the combat scenarios, they would take way too much time without the real-time elements.

That doesn't strike me as a negative. I'm always in favor of fewer, more meaningful battles. I think a 20% reduction in Eternity's planned encounters would not be unreasonable. However, I like a lot of things about Eternity's combat systems, so I'd also be okay with them improving rather than cutting some of the dull encounters.

I'd love to see a fully fledged Obsidian RPG with TB combat, though.

That, I can support without qualification.

 

[Brojito]

Guess I misunderstood this sentence

That is not an endorsement of ME1's loot system, just me not understanding why people hated it so much in particular considering it wasn't tnay much different than the average RPG loot system.

Anyway I liked the lack of loot in Mass Effect 2 and Shadowrun, but I would be happy with the compromise of keeping unique loot and dropping all the generic crap. If PoE did that we would still have dozens of unique weapons and armor and none of the boring busy work.

I'm not sure what you're suggesting - get rid of all non-unique loot entirely? As in no "fine greatsword" or "arbalest", only named unique items?

 

[Shake Appeal]

I think we can all agree that getting more CRPGs from the likes of Obsidian, Harebrained Schemes and inXile will be a good thing, whatever systems they employ.

 

[HK-47]

I think we can all agree that getting more CRPGs from the likes of Obsidian, Harebrained Schemes and inXile will be a good thing, whatever systems they employ.

I'm worried about Torment after Wasteland 2.

 

[EndcatOmega]

I'm worried about Torment after Wasteland 2.

Well, Ziets is on it, so at least the writing will be fine!

 

[vocab]

I'm worried about Torment after Wasteland 2.

Well i'm slightly less worried now that obsidian is sharing pillars tools with them. The combat could go either way.

 

[MartyStu]

I'm worried about Torment after Wasteland 2.

Was Wasteland 2 not any good? I was looking forward to picking it up.

 

[Shake Appeal]

I'm worried about Torment after Wasteland 2.

There are some things to be positive about! Combat doesn't matter as much in Torment games as it does in Wasteland games, so if it's bad, we can live with it! The writing team is excellent! They have Pillars tech, so maybe quests will be less buggy! They have lots of money and the experience of Wasteland 2 to draw on!

But yeah, I'm worried too.

Was Wasteland 2 not any good? I was looking forward to picking it up.

It is good. It's just badly balanced, has mediocre combat, and was riddled with scripting/quest bugs, especially in its second half.

And it's kinda ugly, but that shouldn't be an issue with Torment.

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

It's actually what the SA thread uses for its OT, heh.

I trust EviLore will do what is right and will allow that to be the OT title of the next Sawyer game

 

[Almighty]

I'm not sure what you're suggesting - get rid of all non-unique loot entirely? As in no "fine greatsword" or "arbalest", only named unique items?

Well if I was to say mod Pillars and not build it into the game from the start to have my preferred loot system then something like that. Vendors would sell the generic equipment like "fine greatsword" or "arbalest", when you loot enemies you get cash instead of generic or worthless shit like Xaurip Spear and/or make bounties/quest pay more to make up the difference, you will still be able to craft upgrades for equipment or buy better stuff from vendors, and powerful enemies or hard to reach chest contain unique loot. If done right loot well be less common, but be more meaningful when you find it. That is the rough idea I have in my head at least.

 

[Volodja]

Was Wasteland 2 not any good? I was looking forward to picking it up.

I enjoyed it a lot but it has quite a few issues.

 

[Haunted]

Automatic pre-endgame save in its own save slot right before the point of no return. That's how you know the game was made by people who love to play games themselves, good stuff. Off to tie up some loose ends, I liked the ending choices. Knew the variety of endings would probably be narrated pictures, so while I'm not a huge fan, it's not too bad.

Just shy of 30 hours.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Yeah, WL2 is a good game, and I'm the only one that seemed to think the combat was great.

The only problem with the combat is that the "battlegrounds" that you fight on are 80% of the time horribly designed. Especially the ones where the enemies are all above or below you at the start.

 

[Almighty]

Was Wasteland 2 not any good? I was looking forward to picking it up.

I really liked Wasteland 2, but Torment is such a high bar for a sequel to live up to that I don't know if inXile can hit it. Hell I don't think many developer around could live up to people expectations.

 

[Dresden]

If Torment has appropriately matching portraits for its npcs, it's already a better game than WL2. Or none at all.

Curiosity piqued by the prospect of seeing a Torment title set distant from Avellone's involvement as something more than a kickstarter tier. Immediate gut reaction is that in CRPGs - where the hand of the writer is more distinct than in any other genre of gaming - there's no way it can match PS:T's tone and depth. But if we get a good game out of it in the end, w/e I guess. Hope it turns out well.

 

[aravuus]

Well if I was to say mod Pillars and not build it into the game from the start to have my preferred loot system then something like that. Vendors would sell the generic equipment like "fine greatsword" or "arbalest", when you loot enemies you get cash instead of generic or worthless shit like Xaurip Spear and/or make bounties/quest pay more to make up the difference, you will still be able to craft upgrades for equipment or buy better stuff from vendors, and powerful enemies or hard to reach chest contain unique loot. If done right loot well be less common, but be more meaningful when you find it. That is the rough idea I have in my head at least.

This could be pretty awesome. I stopped looting enemies two thirds through cause all the generic pieces of armor and weapons were getting super boring. Only checked named characters and bosses I killed, but unfortunately more often than not their loot was pretty boring too.

I've always liked the way most JRPGs handle loot a lot more than how it's with most WRPGs. No trash items and almost every single piece of equipment you find is always an upgrade.

 

[Haunted]

Nevermind appropriately matching portraits for NPCs, how about matching portraits for the PCs!


I made a Female Moon Godlike Aumauaumaauauma Monk and almost none of the pictures fit the character. I ended up going with this one.

 

[Galileo]

Anyway I liked the lack of loot in Mass Effect 2 and Shadowrun

I think loot works quite differently in those games.
In Shadowrun you complete jobs, get paid and then spend your earnings to buy more advanced equipment (armors, weapons, explosives...) in preparation for your next mission. It's a relatively simple system that manages to captures the spirit of the setting (in which you are basically a mercenary) while still giving you a sense of progression.
ME2 on the other hand has close to no equipment at all, I distinclty remember finding the most powerful assault rifle just lying around in one of the main mission, making it basically impossible to miss.

 

[HK-47]

Nevermind appropriately matching portraits for NPCs, how about matching portraits for the PCs!


I made a Female Moon Godlike Aumauaumaauauma Monk and almost none of the pictures fit the character. I ended up picking this one.

Expecting matching portraits for all the godlike is impossible. But they definitely need more portraits. My system would be to make presets in the game and then make matching portraits for them (basically select portrait before the character builder) so if someone doesnt give a shit about customizing and just wants a character that looks like its portrait they have one.

 

[Almighty]

I think loot works quite differently in those games.
In Shadowrun you complete jobs, get paid and then spend your earnings to buy more advanced equipment (armors, weapons, explosives...) in preparation for your next mission. It's a relatively simple system that manages to captures the spirit of the setting (in which you are basically a mercenary) while still giving you a sense of progression.
ME2 on the other hand has close to no equipment at all, I distinclty remember finding the most powerful assault rifle just lying around in one of the main mission, making it basically impossible to miss.

I didn't mean to imply that the systems were similar, but that I enjoyed actually playing an RPG where you weren't tripping over loot for once.

 

[Chaos17]

Was Wasteland 2 not any good? I was looking forward to picking it up.

I just hope for you that you never played X-com, then.
If yes, then you've a chance to like the battle system which turned me off unfortunally.

I hope Tourment will be cool like Pillars of Eternity, we need more c-rpg in our life.

 

[HK-47]

This could be pretty awesome. I stopped looting enemies two thirds through cause all the generic pieces of armor and weapons were getting super boring. Only checked named characters and bosses I killed, but unfortunately more often than not their loot was pretty boring too.

I've always liked the way most JRPGs handle loot a lot more than how it's with most WRPGs. No trash items and almost every single piece of equipment you find is always an upgrade.

I dont agree with that system. In JRPGs the characters are mostly static in role and growth.

 

[Galileo]

I didn't mean to imply that the systems were similar, but that I enjoyed actually playing an RPG where you weren't tripping over loot for once.

Sure, I understand that sentiment, I was just pointing out that Shadowrun did it better in my opinion.
EIDT: Also, Vampire Bloodlines did this quite well too.

 

[Almighty]

This could be pretty awesome. I stopped looting enemies two thirds through cause all the generic pieces of armor and weapons were getting super boring. Only checked named characters and bosses I killed, but unfortunately more often than not their loot was pretty boring too.

I've always liked the way most JRPGs handle loot a lot more than how it's with most WRPGs. No trash items and almost every single piece of equipment you find is always an upgrade.

Yeah the system i am envisioning in my head would be somewhere between some JRPGs strictly controlled progression and WRPGs usual method of throwing everything at you including the kitchen sink.

Sure, I understand that sentiment, I was just pointing out that Shadowrun did it better in my opinion.
EIDT: Also, Vampire Bloodlines did this quite well too.

I will agree to that.

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

Nevermind appropriately matching portraits for NPCs, how about matching portraits for the PCs!


I made a Female Moon Godlike Aumauaumaauauma Monk and almost none of the pictures fit the character. I ended up going with this one.

It's spelled Luxury Yacht but it's pronounced Throat Warbler Mangrove

 

[vocab]

I've always liked the way most JRPGs handle loot a lot more than how it's with most WRPGs. No trash items and almost every single piece of equipment you find is always an upgrade.

lmao. What? What games are you playing? The last 3 jrpgs I played have played all had trash items, and all have new gear that is worse than what I already had. I can name countless examples across generations that do the same shit.

I can name Japanese made wrpgs that do even worse shit. Make you go through 40-50 mins worth of difficult content to pick up a fucking ANTIDOTE OR AN EMPTY CHEST FOR YOUR TROUBLES.

 

[aravuus]

lmao. What? What games are you playing? The last 3 jrpgs I played have played all had trash items, and all have new gear that is worse than what I already had. I can name countless examples across generations that do the same shit.

I dunno, good ones, I guess.

 

[vocab]

I dunno, good ones, I guess.

I searched amazon for "good ones". 0 matches found. Even the good jrpgs have loot that is pointless in some cases. I can't think of jrpg with an acutal inventory system where every item is not wasted.

 

[aravuus]

I searched amazon for "good ones". 0 matches found.

Uh... Nice try being funny, I suppose.

Anyway, I'm interested in hearing the countless examples. I'm having a hard time coming up with a JRPG I've played that threw tons of trash at you, equipment or items.

e: to clarify, with trash i mean actual shit that have absolutely no uses. like, you can't use them, you probably can't sell them for more than 1 gold piece.

You probably didn't play Xenoblade then.

Hah, dunno how that one slipped my mind

 

[Vamphuntr]

Uh... Nice try being funny, I suppose.

Anyway, I'm interested in hearing the countless examples. I'm having a hard time coming up with a JRPG I've played that threw tons of trash at you, equipment or items.

You probably didn't play Xenoblade then.

 

[Kyuur]

Am I not supposed to be able to open this door? There is just no way to click on it, from what I can see. Doesn't say anything about lockpicking or needing a special key or anything either. :/ It's in Raedric's Hold Dungeon.

 

[Blizzard]

Am I not supposed to be able to open this door? There is just no way to click on it, from what I can see. Doesn't say anything about lockpicking or needing a special key or anything either. :/ It's in Raedric's Hold Dungeon.

Known issue, I got stuck there as well, happens in several places.

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/73488-soloing-poe-sucess-so-far-hard-dificulty-expert-mode/page-26

I wanted to follow up on this. We looked at the problem over the weekend and already have a fix being tested so that we can quickly patch it up.

It should be ready to go really soon.

Thanks, everyone, for your patience with this issue.

Jorge

*edit* Workarounds include cheating using the command to disable fog of war, or sending your characters really close to the door from different angles and clicking a bunch until you get lucky.

 

[Kyuur]

Ah, thanks for the heads up. That really licks...

 

[bede-x]

I'm about ready to start Pillars, but just to prepare me, a few questions. If I start on hard is there a level cap or can I just grind away, if I get more trouble than I bargained for? Do enemies scale to your level?