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[EviLore]

Yeah, it needs more variety in encounter design beyond just throwing a crapload of enemies at you. I think, mechanically, they had issues with escaping from this result since they clearly seemed to want to make stuff like crowd control spells always feel useful, so the result of that is being able to lock down *any* enemy in the game pretty trivially. The level 6 petrify spell was mentioned above, and...lol, yeah. When enemies are never immune or with high enough saves to avoid it outright, you lose out on cool duel potential with mages and legendary creatures and whatnot.

I mean, you can hard CC literally any boss in the game without even casting some sort of lower resistances/saves spell or stripping protections or anything like you'd have to in an infinity engine game. You can knockdown, confuse, sleep, stun, petrify, hobble, terrify...anyone.

Even relatively low level boss fights in BG2 would have, like, chain contingencies going off, immunity spells from magical weapons, from arrows, from spells, invisibility, duplications, spell reflection, etc. etc. etc.

There's also a lot more scary, dangerous, lethal stuff in the IE games. Getting level drained was *never* fun, especially before you had a party member who could remove it, but it was a crazy and hardcore mechanic that made the stakes seem really high, and that made it memorable and worthwhile. Same thing for disintegration, petrification (of the permanent kind), magical imprisonment, etc. etc. Yes, this maybe encouraged more save scumming, but it also made the enemies you were fighting seem incredibly dangerous, and coming out of the Underdark in one piece all the more satisfying.

 

[HK-47]

It'll be nice if the expansion adds a new class and four companions - rogue, barbarian, monk, and the new class.

I'm fine with taking that class and trading it for more reactivity to background choices and more portraits. Or on making classes like Paladin and Ranger more interesting.

 

[PetriP-TNT]

Took me 23 hours to figure out that DR's don't add up... boy I feel dumb, no wonder some fights I have prepared for felt so hard >_>

 

[Tash]

Took me 23 hours to figure out that DR's don't add up... boy I feel dumb, no wonder some fights I have prepared for felt so hard >_>

Same here, I finally noticed the "suppressed" thing in the character sheets.

 

[decoyplatypus]

I can think of two enemy abilities in Eternity that can blow up your game plan: teleportation and domination. But I'm not sure how many interesting responses there are to those problems. I think the priest spell to resist charm/dominate is a Level 12 ability. You can use other methods to buff your will, but in my experience dominate has good odds even against high-will characters. And because resisting the ability is so hard, knocking down or otherwise incapacitating a dominated party member is usually less helpful than continuing to attack the enemy spellcaster.

I'm fine with taking that class and trading it for more reactivity to background choices and more portraits. Or on making classes like Paladin and Ranger more interesting.

I'm with you. Not that Obsidian couldn't manage both, but I am far less interested in a 12th class than I am in seeing improvements to the 11 we already have. With Eternity's forgiving stat system, even adding a few more abilities for each class could go a long way toward diversifying build possibilities.

 

[Kinthalis]

Yeah I'd much rather another balancing pass not just to the existing classes, but to enemies and entire systems. Some improvements to the combat mechanics so that we DO have some type of hard counters blended in there organically. A beefing up of the enchanting system. More enemy variety. Stuff like that.

Coupled with maybe another large dungeon, a companion, and a few hours (4-6) of extra side quest for expansion part 1 would sound good to me, and would probably make the most difference to me, for a second playthrough.

 

[decoyplatypus]

Was anyone else disappointed that the "Sacrificial Bloodlines" sidequest in Elm's Reach

Spoiler

didn't allow you to turn Simoc into soul paste for someone to imbibe?

 

[EviLore]

I can think of two enemy abilities in Eternity that can blow up your game plan: teleportation and domination. But I'm not sure how many interesting responses there are to those problems. I think the priest spell to resist charm/dominate is a Level 12 ability. You can use other methods to buff your will, but in my experience dominate has good odds even against high-will characters. And because resisting the ability is so hard, knocking down or otherwise incapacitating a dominated party member is usually less helpful than continuing to attack the enemy spellcaster.

Yep, teleporting through your defensive line early game, permanent insect swarm in mid-game, and domination late game. But really just domination, and at level 12 you can shield yourself from it. Need more ways to be taken off guard and have to think on the fly, or find creative or tactical solutions for difficult battles.

I mean, the final battle....

Spoiler

I had my tank and off-tank engage the statues, petrified him with my mage, and then he exploded into gibs from my rogue's sneak attack backstab. That was it. On hard-expert. :/

 

[EndcatOmega]

I don't think BG's style of hard counters is particularly the solution- they're by default pretty binary and I they really don't add much tactically when there's one solution (same with stuff like bringing back immunity to non-magic weapons- when the solution is 'get a better weapon' it's not particularly interesting). Cutting down on hard CC options and/or restricting them to single target would probably be a start, at least on spellcasters- it makes the softer debuff spells more attractive on difficulties lower than Path of the Damned and makes targeting require a little more thought. Probably leave stuff like Clear Out untouched, though- lord knows Fighters don't need even less buttons to press.

Petrify probably needs a look at as well- 4x damage is hilariously over the top. Endgame:

Spoiler

did you know Thaos transfers his souls into statues if you get his health low? I didn't till someone else told me, Aloth turned him into a statue and then the Arquebus Line of Death took over

.

Edit: There's a few other balancing problems- dual wielding seems fairly underpowered for dudes aren't rogues thanks to the lack of low DR/high endurance enemies, fighters are simultaneously immortal gods and very, very boring to play as- but I think that stuff can be solved by number tweaking/expansion enemies.

 

[Labadal]

Unfortunately, Josh doesn't like hard counters or pre-combat buffs. Same goes for multiclassing.

 

[EndcatOmega]

Also what are Rangers for other than making me feel really bad for Sagani('s stats), what is their deal????

 

[Dresden]

As annoying as the shades are, more enemies that break up your engagement routines would be nice. Part of the repetition that sets in is how static encounters become once you've gotten used to the two tank/dps setup.

Not saying that enemies should teleport en masse to the wizard to give him a nap every battle, but more abilities that knock back, or otherwise rearrange your formations and forcing you to adapt, would shake things up quite a bit. It'd also counter the effectiveness of door camping.

---

I think the biggest problem (regarding class balancing and whatnot) is controlling the steep power curve of casters, wizards in particular. The game is basically at the cusp of turning them into Throne of Bhaal HLA gods already, and we're just at spell level 6.

Also what are Rangers for other than making me feel really bad for Sagani('s stats), what is their deal????

Triggering new lines for Eder?

 

[Ala Alba]

Edit: There's a few other balancing problems- dual wielding seems fairly underpowered for dudes aren't rogues thanks to the lack of low DR/high endurance enemies, fighters are simultaneously immortal gods and very, very boring to play as- but I think that stuff can be solved by number tweaking/expansion enemies.

A related problem is that there is no good alternative to a fighter. I mean, you might be able to kinda approximate a fighter + off-tank with two defensively spec'd Paladin/Chanters and a pet. Maybe. I'll probably end up trying that one a second run through, but I don't know how well it will work.

 

[The Illiterati]

I'm at 52 hrs, partway through Act 3. Ten floors of Od Nua done. I am still overstuffed with new quests from Twin Elms, and I can't believe some people are finishing this in 30 hrs. I assume they actually missed a majority of the sidequests/areas since there's no logical way you could complete all of these things that fast.

 

[Labadal]

A related problem is that there is no good alternative to a fighter. I mean, you might be able to kinda approximate a fighter + off-tank with two defensively spec'd Paladin/Chanters and a pet. Maybe. I'll probably end up trying that one a second run through, but I don't know how well it will work.

6 rangers with bear pets.

 

[Artanisix]

It'd be interesting if POTD threw out the bonus stats on mobs and instead gave mobs new abilities i.e. spell immunities, reflect, etc.

Also: finished Endless Paths on my solo hard playthrough. Now to finish the game.

 

[EndcatOmega]

Triggering new lines for Eder?

I've changed my mind, Rangers are OP, please nerf.

With regards to expansion level casters, I'm waiting for the cipher ability that paralyses someone, blows up their immediate family and then sets fire to their dog. At spell level VIII. From a different map.

 

[decoyplatypus]

Yep, teleporting through your defensive line early game, permanent insect swarm in mid-game, and domination late game. But really just domination, and at level 12 you can shield yourself from it. Need more ways to be taken off guard and have to think on the fly, or find creative or tactical solutions for difficult battles.

I mean, the final battle....

Spoiler

I had my tank and off-tank engage the statues, petrified him with my mage, and then he exploded into gibs from my rogue's sneak attack backstab. That was it. On hard-expert. :/

I thought the big fight in Act 1 was fun because you were almost certain to start with your squishy characters exposed and have to work your way out of that mess (likely without the benefit of multiple tanks capable of engaging the entire enemy force between them). But that sort of problem was all too rare. On the bright side, Obsidian clearly had some idea of what kind of enemy compositions made for fun battles, as evidenced by the bounties and "rival party" encounters. If they could combine those with some interesting conditions (hostages to protect, battlefield hazards, enemies that gain strength when acting within 2m of each other), they would have plenty of memorable encounters without even starting the hard work of re-evaluating abilities or the engagement system.

 

[Anoregon]

Unfortunately, Josh doesn't like hard counters or pre-combat buffs. Same goes for multiclassing.

I mentioned before that I really liked what multiclassing brought to the IE games, but since Pillars wasn't designed with it in mind and has more modern avenues for character customization, I don't really miss it. I mean, I like the idea of a Cipher/(anything), but this games lack of weapon/armor restrictions and lack of other things locked out of (or into) specific classes means that sort of thing doesn't really make sense.

You make a Kensai/Mage in BG2 so you can dual wield katanas and buff yourself to the gills with mage spells. In Pillars, you can instead just make a high might/con wizard and use whatever weapons you want. It's obviously not the same thing (and the latter isn't going to reach the overpowered roflcopter status of a proper kensai/mage) but it's cool that the game allows for that sort of character to exist without needing a specific multiclass mechanic.

I do miss pre-fight buffing, though.

 

[Labadal]

Multiclassing would be wasted in this system.

Kits could work.

 

[LurkerPrime]

I take back what I said the other day about the final boss.

In entirely unrelated news, petrify is whack. I don't know what Obsidian was thinking when they dreamed it up.

 

[Giever]

Verify cache integrity. Seems to be the culprit in a lot of Unity based games, don't know why. Some incompatability with Steam's download system?

Hmm, well I tried that, though it didn't find any files that needed to be re-downloaded. Guess I'll keep playing and see if it's improved anyway, thanks.

 

[Labadal]

Hmm, well I tried that, though it didn't find any files that needed to be re-downloaded. Guess I'll keep playing and see if it's improved anyway, thanks.

If that doesn't help, try contacting Obsidian on their forum. Their guys are fairly active now that PoE has released.

 

[Nordicus]

Multiclassing would be wasted in this system.

Hmm, well, this game has kind of done away with something that annoyed me greatly in D&D 3rd edition.

Dipping. I hate how one level gave you every single feature of a basic class when you invest just 1 level into it, no matter what your original class was, while prestige classes, from my experience with NWN games anyway, slowly mold your character into something new level by level because there are requirements to picking them.

PoE doesn't seem to throw a dozen feats on you when you pick your class. I suppose people might make everyone into a tanky melee class at first level and then go to their wanted classes afterwards if the leveling system is left as it is, but that can be tweaked.

 

[EndcatOmega]

I assume if they ever did add a multi-classing system, it'd be more like (non-human) 2e's than 3.5's anything goes, considering the BG influence.

 

[Anoregon]

Hmm, well, this game has kind of done away with something that annoyed me greatly in D&D 3rd edition.

Dipping. I hate how one level gave you every single feature of a basic class when you invest just 1 level into it, no matter what your original class was, while prestige classes, from my experience with NWN games anyway, slowly mold your character into something new level by level because there are requirements to picking them.

This is still an issue in Dungeons and Dragons Online, though it's referred to as "splashing." Pretty much every character in the game is made better by 2 levels of monk or rogue, for evasion, paladin, for charisma bonus added to saves, or fighter, just for the extra feats.

 

[garath]

So what's the new hotness for Wizard spells? Call to Slumber was one, I believe I remember reading there was another great one..

 

[decoyplatypus]

So what's the new hotness for Wizard spells? Call to Slumber was one, I believe I remember reading there was another great one..

In order of spell level, I'd say Slicken, Curse of Blackened Sight, Expose Vulnerabilities, Confusion, Call to Slumber (as you mentioned), and Gaze of the Adragan are all great spells. Some of them are just ridiculous. Call to Slumber and Confusion are so good that it's hard to find a situation where you're better off laying down a wall of force.

 

[Varna]

I wish this game had another difficulty option that let you buff the enemies on hard to PoTD level without all the extras running around. I also wish there was an Trial of Iron-lite setting... you can only save at inns.

 

[Anoregon]

I just went back to the Master Below and smoked it pretty quick this time.

lolpetrify

 

[LurkerPrime]

lolpetrify

Word(s) to live by in Eora.

 

[Spookie]

I just went back to the Master Below and smoked it pretty quick this time.

lolpetrify

Petrify is fairly broken. I finished the last boss in 20 seconds with it. :/

 

[duckroll]

Yeah, it needs more variety in encounter design beyond just throwing a crapload of enemies at you. I think, mechanically, they had issues with escaping from this result since they clearly seemed to want to make stuff like crowd control spells always feel useful, so the result of that is being able to lock down *any* enemy in the game pretty trivially. The level 6 petrify spell was mentioned above, and...lol, yeah. When enemies are never immune or with high enough saves to avoid it outright, you lose out on cool duel potential with mages and legendary creatures and whatnot.

Yeah I think I'm hitting the point now where I feel that there really isn't much "danger" in the game anymore even if I might die, it just means loading and just positioning people a little better and spamming the same strategy anyway. My party is lvl9 going on lvl10 now, and yesterday I completed the Cinders of Faith quest:

Spoiler

and I was really disappointed as to how trivial a battle with a ton of drakes, young drakes, and a named dragon in the cave at the end was. In fact, the cave design itself was disappointing because I basically drew the entire mob out to the chokepoint path leading into the big area, without going into it, and my tanks just blocked everyone (including the drakes and the dragon!) from engaging my party properly while my cipher, priest, and chanter just spammed AOE stuff to disable the enemies over and over. Also, why are drakes even vulnerable to stuff like Takedown? How does it make sense for a fox to be able to ram a drake and knock it over. Wtf?

The game gets a lot right, but making encounters which actually feel -dangerous- for higher levels needs to be one of the main things on their agenda for the expansion.

 

[Varna]

No, that's not accurate. This isn't Morrowind and cliff racers. You will be challenged, but you're not just whiffing on attacks until you get lucky.

I'm sure it will even out as I get better gear... but yeah, definitely a big difference in hit ratio going by the tutorial. I guess getting fine gear ASAP will be quiet necessary.

 

[LurkerPrime]

The game gets a lot right, but making encounters which actually feel -dangerous- for higher levels needs to be one of the main things on their agenda for the expansion.

I'm really curious how they'll balance the expansion content/endgame. Right now I feel like one or two spells decide the battle, and nothing short of disabling them would fix it. Increasing the level cap will only serve to further pigeonhole my party - into Tank, Destroyer, or Useless, and changing around the members won't really affect those roles.

 

[Varna]

I'm really curious how they'll balance the expansion content/endgame. Right now I feel like one or two spells decide the battle, and nothing short of disabling them would fix it. Increasing the level cap will only serve to further pigeonhole my party - into Tank, Destroyer, or Useless, and changing around the members won't really affect those roles.

Maybe they can introduce a magic plague into the lore...

EDIT: Maybe the expansion can involve some kind of crippling of the main character (in a completely different setting with new characters). I don't really how this game ends yet though.

 

[decoyplatypus]

Spoiler

Also, why are drakes even vulnerable to stuff like Takedown? How does it make sense for a fox to be able to ram a drake and knock it over. Wtf?

Spoiler

At least foxes can jump. Someone will have to explain to me how a flying creature is vulnerable to slicken. It seems trivial, but immunities like that would actually help force the player to come up with a plan B. Are constructs even immune to mind-affecting spells in Eternity? I can't remember confuse or sleep missing any group consistently, but I'll have to load an old save file and check.

 

[duckroll]

Spoiler

At least foxes can jump. Someone will have to explain to me how a flying creature is vulnerable to slicken. It seems trivial, but immunities like that would actually help force the player to come up with a plan B. Are constructs even immune to mind-affecting spells in Eternity? I can't remember confuse or sleep missing any group consistently, but I'll have to load an old save file and check.

Constructs are definitely vulnerable to some mind-affecting spells. Probably because stuff aren't flagged as "mental" attacks but rather as the status they inflict. My cipher's mental binding for example, always seems to work on anything. Just stops an enemy dead at their tracks while my tanks close in.

Then again, I guess it's not a stretch, since you're probably not attacking the "brain" so much as the "soul"? Maybe? I dunno...

I definitely agree that they should have put more immunities on higher level enemies or types of enemies to force players to try different things.

 

[Uthred]

Am I missing it or is there no way to sort your inventory/stash?

 

[Varna]

Am I missing it or is there no way to sort your inventory/stash?

Nope... yeah, I know.

 

[Diomedeskun]

Hmm, well, this game has kind of done away with something that annoyed me greatly in D&D 3rd edition.

Dipping. I hate how one level gave you every single feature of a basic class when you invest just 1 level into it, no matter what your original class was, while prestige classes, from my experience with NWN games anyway, slowly mold your character into something new level by level because there are requirements to picking them.

PoE doesn't seem to throw a dozen feats on you when you pick your class. I suppose people might make everyone into a tanky melee class at first level and then go to their wanted classes afterwards if the leveling system is left as it is, but that can be tweaked.

D&D has also done away with that in 5th edition, making it actually worthwhile to play any class from 1-20. The power of 1 level dips and most classes becoming useless after 5 levels were my biggest annoyances with 3.5. It's still not as freeform as PoE, but it is much friendlier and smoother than before. If Sword Coast Legends actually uses 5th edition fully, it could be pretty fun.

PoE does also seem to pick up on a few other elements of 4th and 5th, but most of them are probably more about overall playability rather than just outright borrowing.

 

[HK-47]

If that doesn't help, try contacting Obsidian on their forum. Their guys are fairly active now that PoE has released.

Unfortunately that means going on Obsidian's forums.

 

[wolfhowwl]

I was completing one of the

Spoiler

God Quests for Baerath

and unsurprisingly

Spoiler

the part at the Blood Sands turned into a complete bloodbath.

Does it come up later that

Spoiler

you massacred the entire Ethik Nol?

 

[Jawmuncher]

SO is there an average length if you're just doing the main missions.....on easy.

 

[hemtae]

I was completing one of the

Spoiler

God Quests for Baerath

and unsurprisingly

Spoiler

the part at the Blood Sands turned into a complete bloodbath.

Does it come up later that

Spoiler

you massacred the entire Ethik Nol?

Spoiler

Nope. But I don't know what happens if you haven't done the baby kidnapping quest or the Druid's quest.

 

[Last Baron]

SO is there an average length if you're just doing the main missions.....on easy.

http://howlongtobeat.com/game.php?id=13434

You'll probably want to be looking at the rushed category.

 

[texhnolyze]

http://howlongtobeat.com/game.php?id=13434

You'll probably want to be looking at the rushed category.

Wow, way longer than I expected.
I've just finished Act 2 and I've already burnt 30 hours into the game. I guess 60 hours is a safe bet.

 

[Ala Alba]

D&D has also done away with that in 5th edition, making it actually worthwhile to play any class from 1-20. The power of 1 level dips and most classes becoming useless after 5 levels were my biggest annoyances with 3.5. It's still not as freeform as PoE, but it is much friendlier and smoother than before. If Sword Coast Legends actually uses 5th edition fully, it could be pretty fun.

In general this might be true, but there are still more than a few classes where splashing a level or two of another class is strictly better than taking the class to 20 (Bards and Rangers in particular), and a few classes where only a few levels get some very worthwhile benefits.

But this is probably inescapable for any kind of multiclassing system.

 

[Dennis]

So after being stuck at the character generations screen for more than a week I finally had a chance to play the game and I have two questions.

1) I am playing on Hard difficulty but the first fights at the camp site were super easy. That can't really be representative, right?

2) Heodan

Spoiler

dies for me with no other options in the dialogue than to let him fend for himself. Was there any way to save him

?

 

[Lingitiz]

Wow, way longer than I expected.
I've just finished Act 2 and I've already burnt 30 hours into the game. I guess 60 hours is a safe bet.

FYI act 3 is pretty short and Twin Elms is nowhere near as meaty as Defiance Bay.