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[LaunchpadMcQ]

The person who didn't want a cop counter-claim was LaunchPadMcQ, which is the other reason for my current vote.

Two facts about this. I had a strong feeling you were telling the truth, and I didn't want to put a townie in danger. A neutral cop never crossed my mind.

 

[Darryl]

Would a supposed neutral cop lose anything from claiming at that point?

I mean they could get lynched because now they're a public cop. There's the scenario of, "okay I can counter-claim to get them to lynch hey_monkey, but what if they are town, then they'll come after me, but then scum will see this shitshow and know I'm a cop, so they'll try to night kill me too". Neutrals have to make it to the end of the game to win usually.

We have at least one fucking neutral somewhere. It's not me. I'm absolutely not a neutral. Any survivor neutrals care to counter-claim TTK and ride this game with town to victory?

 

[Sorian]

The problem with those posts is that they actually do both read as if they've come from a neutral cop. :/ My memory isn't too clear until I go back over things but I just remember some posts (that I think were from TTK) where I felt like someone was resisting the idea of a counter reveal and I remember I was wanting to really drive home the point to make sure they countered.

They also read as someone trying to throw shade after a teammate was red checked. There aren't two alignment cops. If Blarg actually came up with the plan (yeah, I see you Blarg, only you would plan this) to have a teammate "cop check" him and bus him then we still have to play it out, if monkey flips alignment cop, even "town-aligned" neutral, then monkey gets caught in the lie.

 

[Darryl]

The person who didn't want a cop counter-claim was LaunchPadMcQ, which is the other reason for my current vote.

I mean we all know Launch was, but TTK was too:

Palmer and burb are peas in a pod in this game so I don't take either seriously when they talk about the other.

Meanwhile, some want town cop to reveal, and others have said not to. I can totally see why a town cop shouldn't reveal right now, especially if they have shots left.

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

I mean they could get lynched because now they're a public cop. There's the scenario of, "okay I can counter-claim to get them to lynch hey_monkey, but what if they are town, then they'll come after me, but then scum will see this shitshow and know I'm a cop, so they'll try to night kill me too". Neutrals have to make it to the end of the game to win usually.

We have at least one fucking neutral somewhere. It's not me. I'm absolutely not a neutral. Any survivor neutrals care to counter-claim TTK and ride this game with town to victory?

What makes you so sure there's a neutral?

 

[Sorian]

What makes you so sure there's a neutral?

It's a gafia game

 

[Dr. Worm]

timetokill, you had suspicions about hey_monkey that you've aired publically - why wouldn't you have checked her?

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

It's a gafia game

I mean, I figure there's gotta be some kind of BS floating around, but where is the neutral action? It should be visible, somewhere, somehow, no?

 

[hey_monkey]

They also read as someone trying to throw shade after a teammate was red checked. There aren't two alignment cops. If Blarg actually came up with the plan (yeah, I see you Blarg, only you would plan this) to have a teammate "cop check" him and bus him then we still have to play it out, if monkey flips alignment cop, even "town-aligned" neutral, then monkey gets caught in the lie.

timetokill pushed hard against the Blarg lynch, claiming all day it was a mega conspiracy between me and SkyOdin and I desperately needed to be lynched before Blarg, just in case. It was the single scummiest thing that's happened all game, which is also why it seems a little suspect.

Is timetokill allowed to give her rolename also? I don't know if that counts as quoting. But I think that would help.

Here's what I'm seeing - I think it's possible that she's telling the truth. I can make a guess about her wincon but I don't want to float info in case she's lying and building a case from guesses, but if I'm checking town/not town and she's checking mafia/not mafia, we can draw some conclusions. But for her to have more shots than I have (though I'm guessing she can't use it every night?) but also but town-aligned seems suspect to me.

ASK FOR QUARTER sounds like she gets something if they are mafia, since she's only checked not-mafia, according to her, and is not meeting her wincon. And that too seems weird.

But here's the thing. If she's mafia, she's pulling the exact same thing Blarg did. No, guys, really I'm a neutral and I wanna work with town. Which seems like a bad strategy to pull. But it's extra weird then that she didn't go harder on Blarg when he did it because she had to know that would be her out if she was found out. So he took her strategy, but she was... cool with it?

The Vere check also sticks for me. Could the mafia have had two kills that night? If not, then mafia had to kill Burb and Burb had to kill Vere... unless there was another factor.

timetokill, do you have any other abilities?

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

Actually, wait lol

There might be a neutral, but TTK is not it. hey_monkey said she gets green for town and red for not town, right?

TTK says she gets Mafia and Not Mafia. Why the hell would Not Mafia be one of her outputs if she's the neutral?

 

[Darryl]

What makes you so sure there's a neutral?

I don't think I've ever played a game without a neutral and it's role madness, so. It seems pretty reasonable from my perspective, far more than the alternative

Natiko's role PM says that their results will return "guilty" to any "successful investigation attempt". TTK says they return "MAFIA or NOT MAFIA" and Hey_monkey claims, something different? "NOT TOWN"? It's really weird that their claims aren't similar, I don't know if there is anything there that condemns anyone though.

 

[Dr. Worm]

TTK says she gets Mafia and Not Mafia. Why the hell would Not Mafia be one of her outputs if she's the neutral?

there've been games before with multiple neutrals, IIRC

 

[hey_monkey]

Two facts about this. I had a strong feeling you were telling the truth, and I didn't want to put a townie in danger. A neutral cop never crossed my mind.

If you thought I was telling the truth, then a counterclaim probably would have been fake, wouldn't it?

I mean we all know Launch was, but TTK was too:

Yeah, I'm just wondering idly if she's neutral and has a partner.

timetokill, you had suspicions about hey_monkey that you've aired publically - why wouldn't you have checked her?

Yeah, I struggle with this a bit. Or Sky, but less desirable to repeat my check. She was quite willing to advocate for my lynch as scum, but never checked me?

 

[hey_monkey]

Actually, wait lol

There might be a neutral, but TTK is not it. hey_monkey said she gets green for town and red for not town, right?

TTK says she gets Mafia and Not Mafia. Why the hell would Not Mafia be one of her outputs if she's the neutral?

Not to lean on flavor, but to lean on flavor, I was very forthcoming about my entire role and which is more likely to be neutral: the person who defends pure authentic neapolitan pizza or the person who likes to play video games at pizza parlors?

Yes, it's weird that her checks would be mafia/not mafia - unless that's related to her wincon. Or if she's scum, that's really easy for her to just know and so makes a good cover.

I can see how it might be set up that there are two cops who have reads like this... but we need more info from ttk.

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

there've been games before with multiple neutrals, IIRC

That's the problem, though. Does this look like a game with multiple neutrals? We don't even have evidence of one existing.

If you thought I was telling the truth, then a counterclaim probably would have been fake, wouldn't it?



Yeah, I'm just wondering idly if she's neutral and has a partner.



Yeah, I struggle with this a bit. Or Sky, but less desirable to repeat my check. She was quite willing to advocate for my lynch as scum, but never checked me?

Well, to be frank, I didn't think of that and I just didn't want too much boat-rocking. I am easily confused.

 

[hey_monkey]

I don't think I've ever played a game without a neutral and it's role madness, so. It seems pretty reasonable from my perspective, far more than the alternative

Natiko's role PM says that their results will return "guilty" to any "successful investigation attempt". TTK says they return "MAFIA or NOT MAFIA" and Hey_monkey claims, something different? "NOT TOWN"? It's really weird that their claims aren't similar, I don't know if there is anything there that condemns anyone though.

my results for the two nights were aligned with the town/not aligned with the town.

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

Not to lean on flavor, but to lean on flavor, I was very forthcoming about my entire role and which is more likely to be neutral: the person who defends pure authentic neapolitan pizza or the person who likes to play video games at pizza parlors?

Yes, it's weird that her checks would be mafia/not mafia - unless that's related to her wincon. Or if she's scum, that's really easy for her to just know and so makes a good cover.

I can see how it might be set up that there are two cops who have reads like this... but we need more info from ttk.

I mean, there are two possibilities: one, she's lying and chose those words to mirror yours; two, there's a second neutral.

 

[Dr. Worm]

That's the problem, though. Does this look like a game with multiple neutrals? We don't even have evidence of one existing.

even if it's not one of those games, that wording can still be used to imply that there may be

 

[hey_monkey]

I mean, there are two possibilities: one, she's lying and chose those words to mirror yours; two, there's a second neutral.

There is a third possibility - that her role and wincon has something to do with the mafia (as above with her command) but it's all speculation until we see what she says.

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

even if it's not one of those games, that wording can still be used to imply that there may be

Yeah, of course. You always leave it up to town or mafia to guess on that sort of thing. But do you leave it to neutral to have to guess that, too?

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

There is a third possibility - that her role and wincon has something to do with the mafia (as above with her command) but it's all speculation until we see what she says.

I'm at the edge of my seat.

 

[Dr. Worm]

Yeah, of course. You always leave it up to town or mafia to guess on that sort of thing. But do you leave it to neutral to have to guess that, too?

maybe?

I don't see it as evidence one way or another

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

bleh fine

 

[Dr. Worm]

It's a day we risk being led astray by Godfathers, of which we can guarantee there to be one if there are two cops. [...] I highly doubt your reads (especially in a two cop, high likelihood of Godfather-fuckery scenario) will be that sick or vital to have been kept secret.

so there's definitely godfathers, right

 

[Darryl]

I think we should avoid over-speculation and leave some room for TTK to hang their own neck. If anyone is a neutral survivor, feel free to be opportunistic and counter-claim alignment. Meanwhile, we should wait for TTK. I think Launch said they're missing an investigation attempt(?).

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

I think we should avoid over-speculation and leave some room for TTK to hang their own neck. If anyone is a neutral survivor, feel free to be opportunistic and counter-claim alignment. Meanwhile, we should wait for TTK. I think Launch said they're missing an investigation attempt(?).

Two of them.

 

[Darryl]

so there's definitely godfathers, right

It's possible, ya. If TTK is telling the truth.

Now, I had always assumed Hey_Monkey was lying about their shot count. I thought that was an obvious lie that everyone would have picked up on. It doesn't appear to have been a lie. I have balance issues with this game if we had a miller, yet we only had a single cop with two shots. It's such an insignificant obstruction role (natiko being a miller), no? The odds of there being any obfuscation occurring is something like 1/12 game re-boots (even lower when you account for miller's who are forthright), which seems pretty low for role madness.

The primary reason for Natiko having been a miller would have been solitary, practically a moral dilemma, as to whether or not he'd come forward as the miller and how that'd make him look. The odds of it ever occurring are insignificant. It's very strange

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

It's possible, ya. If TTK is telling the truth.

Now, I had always assumed Hey_Monkey was lying about their shot count. I thought that was an obvious lie that everyone would have picked up on. It doesn't appear to have been a lie. I have balance issues with this game if we had a miller, yet we only had a single cop with two shots. It's such an insignificant obstruction role (natiko being a miller), no? The odds of there being any obfuscation occurring is something like 1/12 game re-boots (even lower when you account for miller's who are forthright), which seems pretty low for role madness.

The primary reason for Natiko having been a miller would have been solitary, practically a moral dilemma, as to whether or not he'd come forward as the miller and how that'd make him look. The odds of it ever occurring are insignificant. It's very strange

so... you're saying we should lynch Sophia?

 

[hey_monkey]

I also find it frustrating that I only have two shots and it's why I'm inclined to believe Sky. We have limited investigation. I know cops are out of favor in GAFia but that seems light.

 

[Darryl]

so... you're saying we should lynch Sophia?

what if we all have roles that are pretty much useless. millers when there are basically no cops. back-ups when there is nobody to backup. vanillas everywhere. defense roles everywhere to prolong the game. the entire game is like watching mice in a maze, told there is cheese but there is none. forced to be kept here by our mocking children overlords

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

what if we all have roles that are pretty much useless. millers when there are basically no cops. back-ups when there is nobody to backup. vanillas everywhere. defense roles everywhere to prolong the game. the entire game is like watching mice in a maze, told there is cheese but there is none. forced to be kept here by our mocking children overlords

then this really is role madness

 

[Dr. Worm]

"kafka-esque role horror"

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

If everything is a lie, then TTK's role can't exist

 

[Dr. Worm]

if the very fabric of reality is inscrutable and existence itself is unfathomable, we should lynch scum

 

[hey_monkey]

if the very fabric of reality is inscrutable and existence itself is unfathomable, we should lynch scum

agreed, but who the fuck are they in this endless cycle of death

 

[Dr. Worm]

so here's the current, living claims:

01. [m] isaacnukem - New - UTC+8 - commuter
02. [m] Moonkid - New - GMT+12 Replaced by [m] LaunchpadMcQ. - vanilla
03. [they] Darryl - EST - backup
04. [m] Lifeline - EST - innocent child
05. [m] SkyOdin - PDT - beloved princess
06. [f] hey_monkey - EST - cop
08. [m] Dr. Worm - EST - bulletproof
12. [m] 30yearsofhurt - GMT+10 Replaced by [f] timetokill - neutral cop
13. [m] oreomunsta - GMT Replaced by [m] Nomadic Sparks - doc
16. [m] acohrs - GMT - vanilla
20. [m] StanleyPalmtree - GMT+12 - lynchproof

versus our dead:

07. [m] SexyFish - EST - The Town Alternating-Day Doublevoter. Died on Night 1.
09. [m] Palmer_v1 - CST - The Vanilla Townie. Died on Night 5
10. [m] Blargonaut - GMT - The Mafia Strongman. Lynched on Day 3
11. [f] Sawneeks - PST Replaced by [m] Verelios - The ???. Died on Night 3.
14. [m] BlackBuzzard - CET - The Vanilla Townie. Lynched on Day 4.
15. [m] Burbeting - GMT+2 - The Town Vigilante. Died on Night 3.
17. [m] Natiko - EST - The Town Miller. Died on Night 2
18. [f] WhereAreMahDragonz - MST - The Vanilla Townie. Assassinated on Day 2.
19. [f] Swamped - EST - The Mafia Roleblocker. Lynched on Day 2.

so if we collate the lists, using bold for the living, grouped by role category

start with vanillas:

02. [m] Moonkid - New - GMT+12 Replaced by [m] LaunchpadMcQ. - vanilla
09. [m] Palmer_v1 - CST - The Vanilla Townie. Died on Night 5
14. [m] BlackBuzzard - CET - The Vanilla Townie. Lynched on Day 4.
16. [m] acohrs - GMT - vanilla
18. [f] WhereAreMahDragonz - MST - The Vanilla Townie. Assassinated on Day 2.

defensives:

01. [m] isaacnukem - New - UTC+8 - commuter
08. [m] Dr. Worm - EST - bulletproof
13. [m] oreomunsta - GMT Replaced by [m] Nomadic Sparks - doc
20. [m] StanleyPalmtree - GMT+12 - lynchproof

negative utility:

05. [m] SkyOdin - PDT - beloved princess
17. [m] Natiko - EST - The Town Miller. Died on Night 2

cops:

06. [f] hey_monkey - EST - cop
12. [m] 30yearsofhurt - GMT+10 Replaced by [f] timetokill - neutral cop

misc:

03. [they] Darryl - EST - backup
04. [m] Lifeline - EST - innocent child
07. [m] SexyFish - EST - The Town Alternating-Day Doublevoter. Died on Night 1.
11. [f] Sawneeks - PST Replaced by [m] Verelios - The ???. Died on Night 3.
15. [m] Burbeting - GMT+2 - The Town Vigilante. Died on Night 3.

confirmed scum:

10. [m] Blargonaut - GMT - The Mafia Strongman. Lynched on Day 3
19. [f] Swamped - EST - The Mafia Roleblocker. Lynched on Day 2.

 

[Dr. Worm]

fuck, I dunno what I'm doing or where i'm going

 

[SkyOdin]

It is useful information to compile. Now, I do have one question regarding timetokill: if ttk is actually scum, what use would scum have for an alignment cop? They already know who is scum or not. I am actually inclined to believe that ttk is actually neutral. What concerns me is her win condition and whether or not she is a threat to town.

 

[hey_monkey]

It is useful information to compile. Now, I do have one question regarding timetokill: if ttk is actually scum, what use would scum have for an alignment cop? They already know who is scum or not. I am actually inclined to believe that ttk is actually neutral. What concerns me is her win condition and whether or not she is a threat to town.

No use at all - but it's an easy thing to fake because scum already knows alignments.

 

[acohrs]

believe TTK

So, for meta reasons Stan is pretty much confirmed town.

Where to next? Kind if want to lynch skyodin as the longer they live, the more i doubt their claim as why haven't scum lynched them yet? Very suspicious

 

[hey_monkey]

Why do you believe ttk, acohrs? Why do you think SkyOdin is scum?

We cleared you and Nomadic, basically, only because you guys were the votes scum sat on. But you were easy lynches, too. Inactive. I'm inclined to believe that maybe it was just scum looking for townie points. Why would anyone defend you? Flipping Palmer makes the other vanilla claims seem more likely, so why not night kill him to get yourself a little extra safety?

 

[hey_monkey]

Yeah, fuck it. In lieu of anything else concrete, default to what you know. And what I know is this is acohr's scum MO: light posting, popping up here and there, scum team also voting for him.

vote: acohrs

I dunno about ttk, but my directive is to hunt scum and I think we've let acohrs chill for too long.

 

[Nomadic Sparks]

unvote: Stanley Palmtree

I have no idea who to trust

 

[Nomadic Sparks]

Vote: acohrs

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

Yeah, fuck it. In lieu of anything else concrete, default to what you know. And what I know is this is acohr's scum MO: light posting, popping up here and there, scum team also voting for him.

vote: acohrs

I dunno about ttk, but my directive is to hunt scum and I think we've let acohrs chill for too long.

I am believing that after TTK, our last scum (or remaining two) are acohrs and/or isaac, as well...

unvote: Stanley Palmtree

I have no idea who to trust

Reading the thread might give you a hint...

 

[Nomadic Sparks]

I'm going with hey_monkey until she;s proven wrong

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

I'm going with hey_monkey until she;s proven wrong

I don't think you're scum, but not paying attention or taking the time to read and make thoughtful posts is not a good way to play this game.

 

[Dr. Worm]

VOTE: timetokill

We need full info from her to properly assess her claim, and we need to lynch her if she doesn't comply

 

[hey_monkey]

I'm going with hey_monkey until she;s proven wrong

Welp, I was wrong about Swamped so uhhhhhhh

 

[acohrs]

Guess it's around that time again.

Rereading sky's claim again, don't know how scum haven't tried killing them.