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Plane diverted as passengers fight over seat reclining
- Thread starter caramac
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Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
User Name Here
Member
"If you two don't stop your fightin', I swear I'll turn this plane right back around!"
Not if they recline as well.
Again-reclining doesn't help when your knees are being crushed. That would be like putting a pillow under your head while I stepped on your nuts.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
He was talking about in general and mentioned the volume of space. If everyone reclines, the volume of space does not change.
What is the average height of passengers on a plane by the way? I doubt that very talk people make up the majority like this thread is making it out to be. Furthermore, the guy in this story did not use the device due to his knees. He had already paid extra for the extended cabin section and just wanted to use his laptop without any minor disturbance.
If you guys seriously have issues all you have to do is talk to the people in front of you.
Not if they recline as well.
Did you stop when you read the part you bolded? I literally addressed this two sentences later.
Everyone can't recline. The seats in the back don't, for one. For another, not everyone wants to recline. I don't find it any more comfortable (in fact, I find it hurts my neck because the headrest part of the seat is usually so terrible) to recline.
terrisus
Member
The chair reclining isn't affecting anyone's face, neck, shoulders, or torso.
"More space" there at the expense of less space on the lower third of one's body doesn't "solve" anything.
So saying "Just recline, problem solved!" is completely ignoring how chairs actually recline.
neogaffer1
Banned
Doesn't surprise me at all. That airline is by far the worst I've ever flown on. They even advertise not having complementary drinks on their flights as "saving you money."
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
Yes I did! The post was more tongue in cheek. I just find it so ridiculous how packed like sardines people have to be in order to fly.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
I know. The little smiley face at the end of my initial post was meant to show I was kinda joking. The volume doesn't change if everyone reclines! Of course not everyone reclines, for varying reasons, and it most certainly changes the dynamics of the space available to people.
I still think that people with issues can easily speak up. I don't think that people who recline are inconsiderate assholes, I just think they are not really aware that some people may have major issues with the recline.
Here's another one:
http://www.wptv.com/news/flight-to-pbia-diverted-due-to-fight-over-seat-recliner
http://www.wptv.com/news/flight-to-pbia-diverted-due-to-fight-over-seat-recliner
Now this was unfortunate. Lady in the front should've definitve tried to ask. In that case she would seem that Fine was sleeping.
The tandrum that Fine did was not ok too. I get that she was very emotional, but that wasn't the fault of anyone in that plane.
LaserBuddha
Member
She was sleeping on the tray table. A reclined seat doesn't affect you sleeping or hit you in the head if you sleep like a sane person.
The only nice way I can imagine to sleep on tray tables in a plane is with the head on your arms and I think ot can hit you when someones declines. Not violently of course, I think she was more startled than hurt.
Yeah, there's one perfect way to sleep and everyone sleeps that way.
Suddenly someone's right to sleep on the plane doesn't trump everyone else's right to a comfortable flight anymore.
Or if you want to recline your chair you could do the simple fucking curtesy of being aware of your surroundings and maybe asking the person who's space you're about to drop into. It's not that freakin' hard.
The problem wasn't who is worth more, the sleeper or the recliner, but about the tandrum of the sleeper. I mean it's one thing to angry, but screaming amd demanding to divert the plane is... not so nice.
Don't worry. They're working on it.
Is this some kind of sick joke? Also emergency landing on that seat would be unforgettable experience.
Never realized how many people responded to my post and completely misunderstood my point.
The point was that in no way was I disagreeing that recliners are often rude and inconsiderate people and are ethically at fault.
The point was though that ultimately criticism needs to be directed at the airlines and regulatory bodies that allow these cramped cabins in the first place.
Assholes are always going to exist. That's a given. People tend to be selfish way more then they are altruistic or empathetic. So until something is done to address the root cause which is the airlines and regulatory bodies the outrage at individuals committing these acts is ultimately pointless and achieves nothing.
LaserBuddha
Member
You guys are hilarious.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
The pitiful amount of recline an economy seat isn't even worth it. It's a sadistic joke by the airlines.
Which I'm about to experience
Which I'm about to experience
to the person reclining, the amount of comfort given is so minuscule it doesn't even really matter-but to the person with the chair in their face the amount of discomfort is greatly increased-knees bonked, and tray table rendered useless.
PK Strawstorm
Member
My knee defender is my knees. I hold firm right where they are when people start to recline - you can go as far as my knees are naturally positioned.
Yet people still keep slamming back as if they're hitting some unexplained lump behind them. "Wha.. Wha is this thing behind my seat that is stopping me from reclining? It's like there's an adult male back there or something??"
Yet people still keep slamming back as if they're hitting some unexplained lump behind them. "Wha.. Wha is this thing behind my seat that is stopping me from reclining? It's like there's an adult male back there or something??"
AstroNut325
Member
terrisus
Member
Exactly.
teruterubozu
Member
Elrond Hubbard
Neo Member
If I'm flying, I'm reclining once we reach cruising altitude. End of story. I paid for a seat that reclines, and that's all she wrote.
I never recline on flights because I don't really feel the need to. I generally have enough space for my needs unless the person in front of me reclines. The worst feeling is using the tray table and then having it jam into you.
We are all limited in space and the flight is only 2hrs. If you want to recline, move up to 1st class.
We are all limited in space and the flight is only 2hrs. If you want to recline, move up to 1st class.
Elrond Hubbard
Neo Member
The airlines are welcome to replace all economy seats with non-reclining versions if this is to be the norm.
Until that day, I'm going to avoid paying $10k for an airline ticket. Even a 2 hour flight is vastly more tolerable if I can get a decent nap in, which is only possible if I recline.
terrisus
Member
Good luck doing that if the knees of the person behind you are up against the seat.
Amazing how many people in here have no awareness at all of how space works.
joeyjoejoeshabadoo
Member
Don't worry. They're working on it.
Let me guess, Ryan Air and Spirit Air are going to be the first to sign up for these seats.
Elrond Hubbard
Neo Member
This is pretty rare in my experience. In the 100+ flights I've taken, this might have happened a handful of times.
Really? What if I've crossed eight time zones that day, I have a bunch of stuff to do when I land, and a 90 minute nap is the only way I'm going to be able to function? Say I've come from Asia, had a layover in San Francisco, and then a flight to Phoenix? I'm not going to recline, as is my right due to having paid for a reclining seat, so that you'll have more tray space? Nope.
I assume this is an issue that happens in low cost airlines. I don't remember having much issues with Easy Jet or Ryan air because the flights themselves are short so I don't give a shit if I have to sit upright or if the other person reclines, you can't recline much on those flights anyway.
But I also frequently fly airlines such as Emirates, Lufthansa and Virgin where even after the person in front of me reclining I still have enough room without having to extend my legs. I usually have very comfortable flights and I am 6 foot. Sometimes I'd just pull up the arm rest and bring my legs up and sit with the legs crossed and that's comfortable too, though usually it's because I manage to find a seat that has a vacant seat next to mine. I mean I am flying on an A380 in a few weeks and you get so much space in that plane that it's amazing. You never really have to ask the person behind you if you can recline when you are flying with these big airlines with big planes, I still do but all I get are surprised looks because no one expects me to ask them to recline.
But I also frequently fly airlines such as Emirates, Lufthansa and Virgin where even after the person in front of me reclining I still have enough room without having to extend my legs. I usually have very comfortable flights and I am 6 foot. Sometimes I'd just pull up the arm rest and bring my legs up and sit with the legs crossed and that's comfortable too, though usually it's because I manage to find a seat that has a vacant seat next to mine. I mean I am flying on an A380 in a few weeks and you get so much space in that plane that it's amazing. You never really have to ask the person behind you if you can recline when you are flying with these big airlines with big planes, I still do but all I get are surprised looks because no one expects me to ask them to recline.
Elrond Hubbard
Neo Member
The closest I ever came to starting a fight on an airline was when I had finally gotten to sleep on a trans-pacific flight, and the douche behind me woke me up to ask me to un-recline my seat. I refused, but I also couldn't get back to sleep and was a mess when I landed. I'd have knocked him out if there wouldn't have been repercussions.
terrisus
Member
And here we go as an example for all the people saying "Just ask the person in front of you."
Elrond Hubbard
Neo Member
I posit that waking someone up to ask them to un-recline their seat, unless meal service is going on, is one of the douchiest things you can do.
Elrond Hubbard
Neo Member
Yeah, that was a hyperbolic statement. I wouldn't actually punch a guy.
Don't worry. They're working on it.
Honestly, at least these seats are honest about how much space you have. On small commuter jets with too many seats, pretending what you have is a full seat is a joke and this might actually be more comfortable.
teruterubozu
Member
As long as nobody farts or eats garlic.
DEL BOCA VISTA!
I think it's fair that the person behind you has as much right the to the space as you do and is well within their right to ask you to un-recline. Sleeping isn't the trump card here that entitles any one person to more space over another.
My balls say otherwise.
CrashSimonFaye
Banned
Eh, overreaction but it seems like this is a case of two jerks.
If someone reclines in to me enough to bother me, I just give their chair a kick with my knee every few minutes. If I have to be uncomfortable, then they will have to suffer with me. Thankfully I'm only 6 feet tall so most of the flights I go on there is still enough leg room even if they person in front reclines, but it seems ever now and then I'm on a plane where the seat in front of me is somehow closer than normal or reclines more than it should.
Rodney McKay
Member
Nothing inherently douche-y about telling the person in front of you that they are bumping into your legs and if they'd be willing to un-recline a bit.
Also nothing inherently douche-y about actually reclining your seat.
I find the arguments about whose moral or ethical obligation it is to be the first on to broach the subject somewhat unproductive. No matter if there's any actual consensus reached on what the "proper" procedure is, there will always be those who don't know these procedures or know different ones altogether.
What matters is what is happening in the specific situation you find yourself in. Acting impolite on either end of that interaction is where the problems occur. Creating your own set of "proper" flight etiquette rules that not everyone knows about will not solve the problem, and using those rules to justify when you can act impolite in a situation is never the answer.
You'll find douchebags all over the world who, no matter how polite you act, will still only act in their best interests. There's not really anything to do in that case, trying to out douche the douchebag is just going to end up causing a situation like when an unstoppable force meets and unmoveable object (i.e. you cause the plane you're on to get diverted because you're both raging assholes and you need a time out).
Also nothing inherently douche-y about actually reclining your seat.
I find the arguments about whose moral or ethical obligation it is to be the first on to broach the subject somewhat unproductive. No matter if there's any actual consensus reached on what the "proper" procedure is, there will always be those who don't know these procedures or know different ones altogether.
What matters is what is happening in the specific situation you find yourself in. Acting impolite on either end of that interaction is where the problems occur. Creating your own set of "proper" flight etiquette rules that not everyone knows about will not solve the problem, and using those rules to justify when you can act impolite in a situation is never the answer.
You'll find douchebags all over the world who, no matter how polite you act, will still only act in their best interests. There's not really anything to do in that case, trying to out douche the douchebag is just going to end up causing a situation like when an unstoppable force meets and unmoveable object (i.e. you cause the plane you're on to get diverted because you're both raging assholes and you need a time out).
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