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[Mammoth Jones]

People tend to lack basic consideration for others. Leaning a seat back 10 degrees to maybe slightly improve your odds of a nap at the expense of causing actual physical pain and discomfort to someone just follows that trend (and blows my mind). If I fly economy I never recline my seat unless I see a child or really small adult behind me.

Yes, the airlines are certainly culpable as they continue to shrink legroom and still offer seats that recline to cut into that legroom more but it really shouldn't be asking too much for people to be aware if they are causing someone else physical discomfort.

Just be considerate.

Yea people tend to forget that a reclining seat to the legs really physically hurts. A lot.

 

[maharg]

You can reverse that sentiment as well. An individual wishing to recline to gain more comfort should not do so out of consideration and instead sit in a state of discomfort?

Isn't that the same as the person in the back putting the cost of his comfort on the recliner?

Reality is that both passengers paid for a certain amount of space allowed. When you pay for that ticket, you are paying for the space that you occupy. You have a certain allotment of space under the seat, a certain allotment in the overheads, and a certain allotment in your luggage (and of course, if you have more luggage, you pay for it). As both passengers have paid a fare for their use of the space on the aircraft, it is absurd to say that because one individual happens to anatomically fill more of that volume of space, another individual should give up his or her right to use the space that has been paid for.

By virtue of the fact that the seat reclines, the passenger reclining has a right to that space as part of the fare paid. To ask the recliner to not recline is to ask the passenger to surrender some of the rights for which he or she has paid. Why should that be the case?

If a larger individual -- by either height or girth -- requires more space to be comfortable, the onus is on the individual to pay for more space and not on the other passengers, who have paid their fare, to accommodate the needs of those individuals who fall outside of mean in terms of the volume of space they require to be comfortable.

* Disclaimer: I am in the no-recline camp. I never recline but I don't have any hard feelings for those that do

This would be all well and good if the amount of space, given a reclined person in front of you, were reasonable. Yes, it is absolutely the airline's fault that they allow people to recline in ways that are dangerous to the person or objects behind them, but that means little when you're tens of thousands of feet in the air and you just want to eat/not splay your legs into your neighbour/damage your knees/be able to watch a video without the person in front of you shattering your laptop screen/etc.

At any rate, this argument doesn't wash. The only way it works is if either everyone or no one reclines (which is impossible as the back seats usually can't). If you do/can recline and the person behind you does/can not, you have subtracted from the space they paid for (since the default is up). You have taken space they paid for from them. And again, the fact that it was the airline that put you in this position is irrelevant to the immediate situation.

Unfortunately, this is a situation where it *is* zero sum. Your actions have consequences to your neighbour that are beyond their control. Thus, as with most things where this is the case, it is reasonable to expect you to ask them if it's ok before doing it, and not passively aggressively shoving into their space and daring them to challenge you on it.

And I'd reverse the paying extra, otherwise you're just still asking someone else to bear the cost of your choice in another way (with money). And it can be a *lot* of money. If you want to recline with no consequences, get business class or just choose a seat in front of one of the "Extra Space Economy" seats. You don't even get charged extra for that last option, btw.

The only reason I can think of to not ask (if we're assuming, as seems to be the case for the pro-reclining folks, that talking to people about confrontational things is super easy) is because you're literally afraid they'll say no. Otherwise, if it's so reasonable and everyone's ok with it by default, what's the harm in asking?

 

[darkazcura]

Just. Ask. What makes this dickish behaviour is the lack of consideration. You're putting the cost for your comfort on them, the VERY LEAST you can do is ask them if that's ok. Yes, the seats are designed to recline. But it has a very real impact on the person behind you whether they speak up or not, and you're the one making a choice here.

I don't understand this logic. You should be the one to speak up if you have an issue with it, not the other way around. I also have no issue with anyone reclining on me, and I am a frequent flyer. If someone is invading my space, I'll just tell them. Problem is usually solved. I'd be happy to move around and bring my seat up if someone asked me.

In the end, I usually only recline on overnight flights, but I still find it really odd to get angry at those people.

 

[CharlieDigital]

And I'd reverse the paying extra, otherwise you're just still asking someone else to bear the cost of your choice in another way (with money). And it can be a *lot* of money. If you want to recline with no consequences, get business class or just choose a seat in front of one of the "Extra Space Economy" seats. You don't even get charged extra for that last option, btw.

It's not the cost of the choice of the recliner; it is the cost of an individual that physically requires more volume to be comfortable. I'm sure you would agree that if a severely obese person requires two seats to be comfortable, that person should pay for two seats or pay for a more spacious seat instead of, for example, raising an armrest and spilling over to the neighboring passenger's seat.

It is the same case for an individual that is taller then average (5'10" or so) as it is the problem of the individual that he or she cannot fit comfortably into the volume that is allotted for a standard fare.

In other words, it is not the problem of the recliner that the passenger in the back is a 6'8" giant (for example). The recliner has paid a fare that includes the use of space that is gained by reclining (why else would the airlines include this feature in the seats?) and has full right to that space.

...what's the harm in asking?

There is an implication here that the passenger behind the recliner has any rights or say in this matter. He or she absolutely does not given that the airline gives the passenger the right to recline for the fare paid.

If I've paid for a first class ticket, should I be considerate of a passenger that is taller or wider and ask that person if it's OK that I take a first class seat? Of course, that makes no sense! A passenger that has paid a fare is entitled to a specific volume on the plane and because the seat reclines, the implication is that the passenger is entitled to use that space. If a passenger would like another to not use his or her allotted space, then it is up to that passenger to kindly ask.

In no circumstance should the onus be on the recliner to ask if it's OK to recline because it is the right granted by the fare. If a taller passenger in the back objects, he should ask the recliner if she would be so kind as to give up the use of space for which she has paid and has a right to use.

I don't understand this logic. You should be the one to speak up if you have an issue with it, not the other way around.

Exactly.

 

[terrisus]

In no circumstance should the onus be on the recliner to ask if it's OK to recline because it is the right granted by the fare.

How about if the person in back of them's legs are pressed up against the seat back and make it so they can't recline?

 

[retrogamer84]

Well considering my knees are firmly implanted in the seat in front of me when I sit in economy, it's not like they really have a choice. If they have a problem, they can change seats with me.

 

[CharlieDigital]

How about if the person in back of them's legs are pressed up against the seat back and make it so they can't recline?

That person is denying a the right of a passenger that has paid a full fare all of the rights of the use of the space granted by the full fare.

It is no better than the usage of these silly clips to block an individual from reclining.

It is not the right of this person to block the recliner from accessing space for which she has paid for.

 

[CapNBritain]

Just. Ask. What makes this dickish behaviour is the lack of consideration. You're putting the cost for your comfort on them, the VERY LEAST you can do is ask them if that's ok. Yes, the seats are designed to recline. But it has a very real impact on the person behind you whether they speak up or not, and you're the one making a choice here.

Whys is the burden on me? Should I ask for permission every time I do something that I consider innocuous? I am not being inconvenienced. And I do not consider what I am doing something that would inconvenience someone else. If it does, let me know and I'll change my behavior (within reason).

I don't understand this logic. You should be the one to speak up if you have an issue with it, not the other way around. I also have no issue with anyone reclining on me, and I am a frequent flyer. If someone is invading my space, I'll just tell them. Problem is usually solved. I'd be happy to move around and bring my seat up if someone asked me.

In the end, I usually only recline on overnight flights, but I still find it really odd to get angry at those people.

This guy gets it.

Why put the burden on the person with no problem? Don't be passive aggressive.

 

[CharlieDigital]

To put it another way, consider the situation with luggage.

Assume that for your fare, you are granted one piece of checked luggage that is 50lbs.

What if you have more than 50lbs? What if you have two pieces? You would pay the fee to obtain greater use of the volume of space on the plane's cargo hold, would you not? You would expect this to be the case, would you not?

It is no different, then, for a human being that requires more space. If you cannot comfortably fit into economy, you should pay for more space. If you are of larger girth and require two seats to be comfortable, you should pay for two seats.

With most airlines, upgrading to a more roomy "Economy Plus" type of seating is a matter of $50-150, which is hardly obscene.

 

[terrisus]

That person is denying a the right of a passenger that has paid a full fare all of the rights of the use of the space granted by the full fare.

The person in front is denying the human rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness :þ

 

[retrogamer84]

To put it another way, consider the situation with luggage.

Assume that for your fare, you are granted one piece of checked luggage that is 50lbs.

What if you have more than 50lbs? What if you have two pieces? You would pay the fee to obtain greater use of the volume of space on the plane's cargo hold, would you not? You would expect this to be the case, would you not?

It is no different, then, for a human being that requires more space. If you cannot comfortably fit into economy, you should pay for more space. If you are of larger girth and require two seats to be comfortable, you should pay for two seats.

With most airlines, upgrading to a more roomy "Economy Plus" type of seating is a matter of $50-150, which is hardly obscene.

The problem with those scenarios are they are all controllable for most of us. You can control how much you pack and most can control their weight. We have no control over how tall we are.

 

[CharlieDigital]

The problem with those scenarios are they are all controllable for most of us. You can control how much you pack and most can control their weight. We have no control over how tall we are.

It matters not.

In both cases, you are paying for a volume of space on a vehicle that is limited in volume. If you are too large to fit into that volume comfortably, that is your problem. If you need more volume, you have the option of paying for more volume.

 

[retrogamer84]

It matters not.

In both cases, you are paying for a volume of space on a vehicle that is limited in volume. If you are too large to fit into that volume comfortably, that is your problem. If you need more volume, you have the option of paying for more volume.

If someone wants to recline in front of me, then they can simply switch seats with me. Problem solved. It's not like I am pushing my knees against the seat, that is just where they wind up when I sit down.

 

[maharg]

It matters not.

In both cases, you are paying for a volume of space on a vehicle that is limited in volume. If you are too large to fit into that volume comfortably, that is your problem. If you need more volume, you have the option of paying for more volume.

You still haven't addressed the fact that when you recline you are actually reducing the volume of space the person behind you has paid for, which is the crux of this issue. You have both paid for that space between the reclined/not-reclined area, you can not both have it at once. And before you say it, saying the person behind should just recline if they want that space doesn't address the fact that this only helps if it's their upper body that's uncomfortable and the fact that it just cascades the problem to the back seats, which usually can't recline. Never mind that not everyone *wants* to be reclined the pointless extra inch or so.

 

[Lionel Mandrake]

Do seats recline on Mandrake Air?

Backwards? No.

 

[Dalek]

You still haven't addressed the fact that when you recline you are actually reducing the volume of space the person behind you has paid for, which is the crux of this issue. You have both paid for that space between the reclined/not-reclined area, you can not both have it at once. And before you say it, saying the person behind should just recline if they want that space doesn't address the fact that this only helps if it's their upper body that's uncomfortable and the fact that it just cascades the problem to the back seats, which usually can't recline.

I'm thinking we're never going to be able to convince short people of this.

Backwards? No.

I LOLed.

 

[CMojicaAce]

I recently flew from Mexico City to LA and had to get the emergency exit seat since it was the only one left. Man, all that leg room was amazing! Every other seat looked cramped as hell. I'll definitely be buying the emergency exit seats on future flights from now on.

 

[terrisus]

I recently flew from Mexico City to LA and had to get the emergency exit seat since it was the only one left. Man, all that leg room was amazing! Every other seat looked cramped as hell. I'll definitely be buying the emergency exit seats on future flights from now on.

Emergency Exit seats are the best.

 

[CapNBritain]

The problem with those scenarios are they are all controllable for most of us. You can control how much you pack and most can control their weight. We have no control over how tall we are.

Big people have to pay more for custom clothing. It's just a fact of life. It's not like being tall doesn't have a lot of other benefits.

You still haven't addressed the fact that when you recline you are actually reducing the volume of space the person behind you has paid for, which is the crux of this issue. You have both paid for that space between the reclined/not-reclined area, you can not both have it at once. And before you say it, saying the person behind should just recline if they want that space doesn't address the fact that this only helps if it's their upper body that's uncomfortable and the fact that it just cascades the problem to the back seats, which usually can't recline.

I would say that the person behind actually paid for Second Class access to that space, whereas the person in front paid for First Class access. Basically, if you are behind someone, you can use that space if they allow you to.

Now, imagine that everyone always had enough space. Like there was 10 feet between each seat. Does the person in front have to ask permission to encroach on the person behind's space? No, that's ridiculous. You are instead arguing that the space is not enough, which is the fault of the airline company.

Now, is the person in front being kind of a jerk if they recline after being told that they are causing the person behind them physical discomfort. Sure. But that's not people here are arguing.

 

[maharg]

I'm thinking we're never going to be able to convince short people of this.

I'm not even that tall! As I mentioned, I'm pretty much perfectly average.

That said, the plane I fly on the most is a fairly cramped United commuter jet, so that may have something to do with my vehemence on this issue. Even most of the plus seats (except the exit row/front seats) aren't all that great for legroom.

I would say that the person behind actually paid for Second Class access to that space, whereas the person in front paid for First Class access. Basically, if you are behind someone, you can use that space if they allow you to.

This is ridiculous. The vast majority of people on planes do not recline. So you're saying that almost everyone on almost every airplane is not using their seat to its fullest capacity, but can decide at any moment that the person behind them should not open their laptop fully whether or not they recline?

At any rate, this is still tacit admission that the recliner space is a kind of shared space that's subject to some kind of sharing protocol. Now tell me why your sharing protocol makes more sense than mine.

Now, imagine that everyone always had enough space. Like there was 10 feet between each seat. Does the person in front have to ask permission to encroach on the person behind's space? No, that's ridiculous. You are instead arguing that the space is not enough, which is the fault of the airline company.

Reductio ad absurdum is fun, isn't it? That aside, I agree it's the fault of the airline company. Again, that's pretty much irrelevant when you're tens of thousands of feet in the air and someone's just broken your laptop. The airlines should disable reclining on seats that are too close together, you'll get no argument from me there. Somehow I don't think that's what you're getting at, though.

 

[terrisus]

I would say that the person behind actually paid for Second Class access to that space, whereas the person in front paid for First Class access. Basically, if you are behind someone, you can use that space if they allow you to.

That choice is indicated nowhere when ordering the ticket, nor is it indicated anywhere on the ticket.

One could just as easily say the person in front has paid for Second Class access by choosing to sit in front of someone with long legs. They can only use that recline space if the person behind them folds themself into an awkward position.

 

[Dalek]

Emergency Exit seats are the best.

On Southwest it's a mad dash to get those seats. Everyone gives you the evil eye as they walk by.

 

[terrisus]

On Southwest it's a mad dash to get those seats. Everyone gives you the evil eye as they walk by.

Never flown Southwest, but I've heard of how they do things, and I definitely would never fly an airline that didn't at least allow you to pick a specific seat when booking.
If I don't at least have an aisle seat, I'm getting another flight :þ

 

[CapNBritain]

That choice is indicated nowhere when ordering the ticket, nor is it indicated anywhere on the ticket.

One could just as easily say the person in front has paid for Second Class access by choosing to sit in front of someone with long legs. They can only use that recline space if the person behind them folds themself into an awkward position.

Ah, very good point that I hadn't considered. But then, in this scenario, I would imagine that the person in front would try to recline, and cannot, which would then cause a conversation to start. Person behind will point out his long legs and ask person front not to recline, and person front agrees (or is a jerk and an argument ensues). In this scenario, I still don't see it being the responsibility of the person in front to ask permission. And it would be nice for the person behind to not be so passive aggressive and just speak up. Or do both, since I know blocking the recline is a self-preservation maneuver.

This is ridiculous. The vast majority of people on planes do not recline. So you're saying that almost everyone on almost every airplane is not using their seat to its fullest capacity, but can decide at any moment that the person behind them should not open their laptop fully whether or not they recline?

At any rate, this is still tacit admission that the recliner space is a kind of shared space that's subject to some kind of sharing protocol. Now tell me why your sharing protocol makes more sense than mine.

I have never had a problem using sitting or using a laptop or eating when being reclined into. I know some people are tall and do have these problems, but try not to make everyone out to be spider-legged freaks.

And I think my protocol makes more sense because I am using the seat as intended. I shouldn't have to ask permission to do use something as it was intended. Once again, if you have a problem, speak up and I'll stop doing it.

 

[Dalek]

Never flown Southwest, but I've heard of how they do things, and I definitely would never fly an airline that didn't at least allow you to pick a specific seat when booking.
If I don't at least have an aisle seat, I'm getting another flight :þ

I agree-I don't really recommend it. The only reason I fly them is that my wife and I fly to LA and Portland often, and from the Bay Area, it's a short flight and their fares are very reasonable.

 

[terrisus]

Ah, very good point that I hadn't considered. But then, in this scenario, I would imagine that the person in front would try to recline, and cannot, which would then cause a conversation to start. Person behind will point out his long legs and ask person front not to recline, and person front agrees (or is a jerk and an argument ensues). In this scenario, I still don't see it being the responsibility of the person in front to ask permission. And it would be nice for the person behind to not be so passive aggressive and just speak up. Or do both, since I know blocking the recline is a self-preservation maneuver.

Blocking recline isn't necessarily "a self-preservation maneuver," sometimes it's just "a result of how one is sitting."

When I get into most airline seats, my knees are by default against the seat in front of me, without me needing to actually go out of my way to do anything.

I figure it's generally a nice thing not to smash other people's knees. But, what do I know?

 

[maharg]

Ah, very good point that I hadn't considered. But then, in this scenario, I would imagine that the person in front would try to recline, and cannot, which would then cause a conversation to start. Person behind will point out his long legs and ask person front not to recline, and person front agrees (or is a jerk and an argument ensues). In this scenario, I still don't see it being the responsibility of the person in front to ask permission. And it would be nice for the person behind to not be so passive aggressive and just speak up. Or do both, since I know blocking the recline is a self-preservation maneuver.

You can't have this both ways. Not asking is just as passive-aggressive as not speaking up (I'd argue more, because it is inherently more aggressive, but I'll concede to equal for the sake of a sane argument). By not asking you're simply hoping for the person behind you to not react.

Asking is assertive. Not asking and doing it is passive-aggressive. Yes, not saying anything when someone does it to you is also passive-aggressive, but to be fair that person has literally not done anything to you and you seem to be completely unaware of their existence.

 

[CapNBritain]

Blocking recline isn't necessarily "a self-preservation maneuver," sometimes it's just "a result of how one is sitting."

When I get into most airline seats, my knees are by default against the seat in front of me, without me needing to actually go out of my way to do anything.

I figure it's generally a nice thing not to smash other people's knees. But, what do I know?

I do not check out people around me. I like to keep to myself. I would not notice you and your long legs behind me. If I recline and hit your knees, I will be apologetic and stop. In all my years of flying, I have never reclined and hit someone. I do not think I should have to ask permission in fear of something that is not common and that I have never experienced.

 

[phillipgessert]

I do not check out people around me. I like to keep to myself. I would not notice you and your long legs behind me. If I recline and hit your knees, I will be apologetic and stop. In all my years of flying, I have never reclined and hit someone. I do not think I should have to ask permission in fear of something that is not common and that I have never experienced.

Are you sure you've never hit anyone? As you say, you dont check out those around you. You may be squashing legs all day long and they just tolerate it. I don't consider myself all that tall (right around 6') and my knees are jammed against the seat ahead of me every time I fly.

 

[maharg]

I have never had a problem using sitting or using a laptop or eating when being reclined into. I know some people are tall and do have these problems, but try not to make everyone out to be spider-legged freaks.

Congratulations, you apparently fly on bigger and nicer planes than I usually do.

I do not check out people around me. I like to keep to myself. I would not notice you and your long legs behind me. If I recline and hit your knees, I will be apologetic and stop if I noticed. In all my years of flying, I have never reclined and hit someone that I know of. I do not think I should have to ask permission in fear of something that is probably more common than I think and that I have never noticed.

I fixed it for you.

 

[CapNBritain]

You can't have this both ways. Not asking is just as passive-aggressive as not speaking up (I'd argue more, because it is inherently more aggressive, but I'll concede to equal for the sake of a sane argument). By not asking you're simply hoping for the person behind you to not react.

Asking is assertive. Not asking and doing it is passive-aggressive. Yes, not saying anything when someone does it to you is also passive-aggressive, but to be fair that person has literally not done anything to you and you seem to be completely unaware of their existence.

It is not passive-aggressive to live my life. Reclining is not a passive-aggressive act. You can only be passive-aggressive if you have a problem. I do not have a problem when reclining.

Are you sure you've never hit anyone? As you say, you dont check out those around you. You may be squashing legs all day long and they just tolerate it. I don't consider myself all that tall (right around 6') and my knees are jammed against the seat ahead of me every time I fly.

This could also be true. Maybe I have inconvenienced someone. If I had, I wish they would've said something. I'd gladly unrecline. But I don't go through life worrying if mundane actions will inconvenience other people and asking permission. And regardless of what you guys say, reclining your seat is a pretty mundane action.

 

[Crisco]

Fuck tall people. You assholes have the advantage in every other walk of life, airplanes are where being short actually pays. Don't like having your knees crushed? Buy two seats or just,

 

[HammerOfThor]

Dude's a dick. Its not like he was doing it because he was too tall he just wanted to use his laptop.

 

[MicH]

God, I hate flying. I cannot afford anything else than Economony and being 6'3"... It's not fun. My knees are already crushed against the seat in front of me and it only gets worse if that person decides to recline their seat. It literally hurts because my knees are completely crushed. I really wish that feature would be taken out.

 

[terrisus]

But I don't go through life worrying if mundane actions will inconvenience other people and asking permission. And regardless of what you guys say, reclining your seat is a pretty mundane action.

People are telling you it significantly inconveniences, and possibly injures, other people.

If you choose to ignore that and continue to do so, it's obviously your choice.
But, it's definitely not "mundane."

 

[maharg]

People are telling you it significantly inconveniences, and possibly injures, other people.

If you choose to ignore that and continue to do so, it's obviously your choice.
But, it's definitely not "mundane."

No, see, it's never been a problem for him so it obviously isn't for anyone else. Only his lived experiences count.

Ignorance is a defence against the act being passive aggressive until you're told many times that your action, taken without consideration for anyone else (by your own explicit admission!), is probably inconveniencing them. Now you know.

 

[m3k]

I figure i only recline if someone in front of me reclines or am trying to sleep... I'm tall enough to be uncomfortable if people recline and if someone complains behind me im not changing shit unless the person in front is

this whole fight is retarded behaviour

 

[terrisus]

No, see, it's never been a problem for him so it obviously isn't for anyone else. Only his lived experiences count.

Clearly.

But not being able to recline one's seat - that's an affront to sensibilities!

 

[Discotheque]

um wtf my bad wrong thread lmao

 

[CapNBritain]

GAF back? Thread wasn't loading for a while.

People are telling you it significantly inconveniences, and possibly injures, other people.

If you choose to ignore that and continue to do so, it's obviously your choice.
But, it's definitely not "mundane."

Yes, a few people in a NeoGaf thread are telling me that having long legs makes THEM uncomfortable when I recline. My response to them is to let me know if that happens. I will fix it. Is that not good enough? You want me to go out of my way to maybe prevent you from having to speak up when something is a problem with YOU?

No, see, it's never been a problem for him so it obviously isn't for anyone else. Only his lived experiences count.

Ignorance is a defence against the act being passive aggressive until you're told many times that your action, taken without consideration for anyone else (by your own explicit admission!), is probably inconveniencing them. Now you know.

I'm sorry, but once again I have to say there is nothing passive-aggressive about living my life and going about my business. If you have a problem with what I'm doing, let me know. Don't put the onus on ME to prevent YOUR problems. I don't want to live in a world where I'm constantly tiptoeing around every situation because of the small possibility that it will inconvenience you.

If it bothers you, speak up. If you didn't speak up, why would I assume it bothers you? Obviously it didn't bother you enough. I'm not going to read your mind.

 

[phillipgessert]

I'm sorry, but once again I have to say there is nothing passive-aggressive about living my life

No, but 'is / isn't passive aggressive' isn't the only model for decent behavior. Reclining a seat in a plane with no care or concern for the person behind you is inconsiderate and oblivious.

 

[Chairmanchuck]

No, but 'is / isn't passive aggressive' isn't the only model for decent behavior. Reclining a seat in a plane with no care or concern for the person behind you is inconsiderate and oblivious.

I would say it depends how much they recline. Most of the people I see that recline during a flight dont recline all the way, but mostly about 30-40%.

 

[phillipgessert]

I would say it depends how much they recline. Most of the people I see that recline during a flight dont recline all the way, but mostly about 30-40%.

True, I forget that there are different degrees of reclining. I tend to assume the back is either 'up' or 'down'. Though it seems like the moment they adjust the seat at all, it is already rolling all over my knees.

 

[Cipherr]

I always recline because people in front of me always recline.. I thought that was the point ???
If everyone reclines, there won't be any problems

This is really only true for us shorter folks. I have flown with taller co-workers before, it really doesn't work the same for them. Its fucking inhuman IMO the way they have to deal with that shit. I never even noticed it being a short guy until I saw it inconvenience my friend.

 

[TCRS]

reclining in economy class should be banned. the space is ridiculously small already and then the fucking recliner takes away the last few cubic centimeters of space and dignity that you have.

 

[Calamari41]

Would some of you really tell the person behind you to "deal with it" if they told you that your attempts to recline were hurting them? Or are you just being tough online?

 

[Syriel]

Yup. those few centimeters are nothing for the person on the chair but can be a massive annoyance for the one behind.

Reclining a seat on a long flight means the difference between getting decent sleep or waking up with a sore neck and back. I always try to book seats in the Economy Plus section if possible as that offers up more space (34-36 inches on United vs 31-32 inches in a standard seat), but I'm not about to subject myself to unnecessary pain for no reason. Doubly so if I've paid extra for a seat with more room.

Most of these knee problems could be solved by taking out like a single row of seats in economy when designing these planes. They could just bump the prices up like 5% and let everyone have some breathing space.

United already did this. It's called Economy Plus. Guy was sitting in it, but still wanted to prevent the woman in front from reclining.

Yes, you pay more for Economy Plus (and yeah a lot of people don't like the idea of paying extra), but that extra space is noticeable.

You're describing "Economy Plus" variants. I am glad to pay more for one of those seats. It would be nice if there were a height restriction, though, since they tend to fill up quickly in my experience with short people. Exit rows, too.

Economy Plus is well worth the cost. You have to watch out with exit row seats though. On planes with dual exit rows, the seats in the first exit row don't recline. You don't want to be stuck in one of those on a long flight unless you have a back of steel.

My wife always request the aisle seat on a plane or in a theater and ask me to take the middle seat. Fine but it annoys me when I sit next to someone who is an arm rest grabber. Don't they know that the polite thing to do is to only grab half of it? So I have to sit there and wait for the arm to move off and then claim the rest.

Another option is to just book two aisle seats. You're still close enough to talk, but neither one has to get stuck with the middle.

 

[rykomatsu]

JAL's skyshell allows reclining without the seat physically intruding into passenger space. Kinda cool, and would resolve a lot of these issues imho.

 

[Calamari41]

Economy Plus is well worth the cost. You have to watch out with exit row seats though. On planes with dual exit rows, the seats in the first exit row don't recline. You don't want to be stuck in one of those on a long flight unless you have a back of steel.

This reminded me of a weird experience I had in an exit row recently. The seats in this one particular row were, like, ultra thin, and solid all the way up the sides. So no room between the arm rest and the seat to "spill out," as it were. It was really strange because I am tall, but slender, and I barely fit in them at all. Never seen seats like that before or since. This was on a United flight.

 

[Kenshin001]

reclining in economy class should be banned. the space is ridiculously small already and then the fucking recliner takes away the last few cubic centimeters of space and dignity that you have.

Yes, let's make economy even more unpleasant. I have a better idea. Special needs people fly business class and let us recliners have some comfort.