Plasma, LCD, OLED, LED, best tv for next gen

lostsupper said:
Ease up on the hostility, brother.

Most plasmas don't do 4:4:4 chroma, so small text (like the kind in a lot of games) looks blurrier than it should.

Regarding image retention, it is still an issue. It goes away after a while, but that doesn't mean we should accept it. My point about competitive gaming stands. If you believe wholeheartedly that "plasmas are always better than lcd's," you should recognize the inconsistency with what professionals choose to use for games.

I see dithering on a 50" Panasonic ST50 set at seven feet. It's annoying. You not seeing it doesn't mean that I don't see it.

I'm trying to provide a counterpoint to plasma hype. If any of you are trying to decide on a new display, go look at a lot of them. That's the last I'll say here, since being older than most of you I don't appreciate being called a child or a fool.
Click to expand...

The plasma hyperbole on this forum is off the charts. Now to say one prefers plasma is one thing, but to say plasma just absolutely blows LCD/LED out of the water is a whole different issue altogether. I remember going into different stores years ago based off of the hype here and other forums expecting plasma to just annihilate LCD, but I actually came to refer to LCD. LCD is sharper with brighter whites and I don't have to worry about image retention. Guys will point out all the disadvantages of LCD, but ignore the fact that plasmas dim when the screen turn white or will have greyish whites when put next to an LCD, and like you said, the dithering, or the fact the whole screen washes out in daytime lighting. Now, for one to prefer plasma due to it's advantages is one thing, but to say plasma just annihilates LCD and the other hyperbole I hear on hear is ridiculous.
 
maneil99 said:
Was going to purchase that 42 inch Panny everyone was talking about here, went to the store and did a complete 180, the dimmness of the display is a huge turn off, and the text in news shows was hard to read, now I am looking at Samsungs LCD line, any recommendations around the 42 inch mark. Netflix is a must
Click to expand...


I actually had the same impression when I bought my television years ago. I went in expecting plasma to utterly annihilate LCD due to what I was reading on the forums, but I actually found I preferred LCD due to the brightness of the whites and sharpness. Go in and buy what pleases your eyes the most. The whole theory about it being due to the floodlights in the store is nonsense also. They had the television section with dimmed lighting and I still noticed the same thing. Ask for the remote and play around with the settings. I ended up buying the Samsung B750 and haven't looked back since.
 
kevm3 said:
The plasma hyperbole on this forum is off the charts. Now to say one prefers plasma is one thing, but to say plasma just absolutely blows LCD/LED out of the water is a whole different issue altogether. I remember going into different stores years ago based off of the hype here and other forums expecting plasma to just annihilate LCD, but I actually came to refer to LCD. LCD is sharper with brighter whites and I don't have to worry about image retention. Guys will point out all the disadvantages of LCD, but ignore the fact that plasmas dim when the screen turn white or will have greyish whites when put next to an LCD, and like you said, the dithering, or the fact the whole screen washes out in daytime lighting. Now, for one to prefer plasma due to it's advantages is one thing, but to say plasma just annihilates LCD and the other hyperbole I hear on hear is ridiculous.
Click to expand...

You went to stores to look at plasmas?
They have to be at home to be appreciated, where yes, they beat LCDs easily in color reproduction and gray scale.

Still, home environment is a big factor so if you have a bright room, then a quality LCD is better.
I personally have never seen a good plasma in the store except for a specialty home theater store that actually tuned their sets and rooms.
 
dallow_bg said:
You went to stores to look at plasmas?
They have to be at home to be appreciated, where yes, they beat LCDs easily in color reproduction and gray scale.

Still, home environment is a big factor so if you have a bright room, then a quality LCD is better.
I personally have never seen a good plasma in the store except for a specialty home theater store that actually tuned their sets and rooms.
Click to expand...

I advise people to go look at the sets for themselves. Plasmas may have better color reproduction and gray scales when doing strict accuracy measurements, but that may not be what a person's eye prefers when it comes down to it, just like how in the speaker world, one speaker measures way more neutral than the other and yet someone may easily prefer the speaker that doesn't measure up as well.

Plasmas are usually preferred by videophiles, especially for video watching and gaming to some extent, but whether someone would actually be better off with a plasma will come down to their personal needs and how their eyes react to the set. I went in expecting some plasma domination based upon what I was reading here. There's nothing magical that plasmas can do to transform when they are in the house compared to what I saw at stores given the stores had the televisions section dimmed and the things I disliked about plasmas couldn't be calibrated out. Now we can talk about television store 'torch mode' or whatever, but bottom line is just like plasmas have advantages with deeper and darker blacks on average, LCDs generally have brighter whites due to how the technology works. When sitting side by side, the difference is easily noticeable, as the plasma will usually have the 'dimmer' looking screen... just as how in some dark screens and when you are watching television in a dark room, plasmas generally have the deeper blacks. Plasmas handle motions better, but LCDs are sharper.

I can easily understand someone preferring plasma, but what I am going against is this hyperbole that plasmas just destroy LCDs and LEDs and that it's absolutely no comparison between the two technologies. They each have their advantages and disadvantages and certain factors like whether the set will be used as a monitor, whether it will be viewed in a light controlled environment or a bright environment, and other such factors have to be taken into account before we go out screaming "PANNY PLASMA! PANNY PLASMA!"
 
kevm3 said:
The plasma hyperbole on this forum is off the charts. Now to say one prefers plasma is one thing, but to say plasma just absolutely blows LCD/LED out of the water is a whole different issue altogether. I remember going into different stores years ago based off of the hype here and other forums expecting plasma to just annihilate LCD, but I actually came to refer to LCD. LCD is sharper with brighter whites and I don't have to worry about image retention. Guys will point out all the disadvantages of LCD, but ignore the fact that plasmas dim when the screen turn white or will have greyish whites when put next to an LCD, and like you said, the dithering, or the fact the whole screen washes out in daytime lighting. Now, for one to prefer plasma due to it's advantages is one thing, but to say plasma just annihilates LCD and the other hyperbole I hear on hear is ridiculous.
Click to expand...

I do agree one should get what is pleasing to their eye and plasma is not for everyone. Though In most cases, in terms of PQ, plasma does beat out LED/LCD 9/10 times. Exception being the Sharp Elite which was eclipsed by a plasma half the price the following year and a Sony HX929.

Color Accuracy, MLL, Motion, Contrast Ratio, viewing angle, etc All superior on plasma. The only things that LCD had going for it is brightness and lack of image retention....and in comes the Samsung 8500 so brightness yeah bye not an issue anymore. So really all that is left is image retention and dithering. Which IMHO is not that bad but that is subjective. bigger issue for some then others. Though you have those that can hear the plasma buzz etc so you will always have a things.

Though in terms or pur PQ LCD just doesn't cut it.

As for Whites. White is white It's the brightness of what that you are seeing. Ex. You take something that is say an 90% stimuli pattern and take something that is 100% stimuli pattern. (intensity) The 100% will appear more white because it's brighter. It doesn't make 90% any less white. Take out the 100%...guess what the new white is.

Also ideally nothing should appear sharper if set correct a all post processing image enhancement would ideally be off. The excepting I think is Samsung as I think they drive their panels different and it has some sort of processing.

Myself personally I just want the best PQ possible. If LCD gave that I would buy one in a heartbeat. I have owned some in the past. As at the time it gave me the best PQ for my viewing environment (full array only with local dimming anything else is meh)

In terms of PQ I would love to see a LED that blows away my 500M, hell or even my ZT60, simple fact is there isn't one that can.
 
kevm3 said:
I actually had the same impression when I bought my television years ago. I went in expecting plasma to utterly annihilate LCD due to what I was reading on the forums, but I actually found I preferred LCD due to the brightness of the whites and sharpness. Go in and buy what pleases your eyes the most. The whole theory about it being due to the floodlights in the store is nonsense also. They had the television section with dimmed lighting and I still noticed the same thing. Ask for the remote and play around with the settings. I ended up buying the Samsung B750 and haven't looked back since.
Click to expand...

Um, right. That's why any screen with a reflective surface appears dim when light is shined onto it... because it's being washed out. Like I said before...

NoLoveForFailWheelDrive said:
Ok first off, the way a TV looks in store is NOT how it looks in your house. Due to all the light etc in the store, it's going to wash out the display due to the reflectiveness of the screen. You know how your phone screen gets washed out in direct sunlight? Same concept. Also, at the store, those plasmas are only set to around 50% brightness. Calibrated you'll run it at 85-90% brightness. In your home they are VERY bright.
Click to expand...


If you disagree with the physics of how light works on reflective surfaces, please, do go on. And if you disagree with professionals who say that EVERY TV needs to be seen in your own home and calibrated, NOT seen in a store with questionable calibration, then please, enlighten us as to why seeing a TV in the store under non-ideal circumstances is the way to go.

kevm3 said:
I advise people to go look at the sets for themselves. Plasmas may have better color reproduction and gray scales when doing strict accuracy measurements, but that may not be what a person's eye prefers when it comes down to it, just like how in the speaker world, one speaker measures way more neutral than the other and yet someone may easily prefer the speaker that doesn't measure up as well.

Plasmas are usually preferred by videophiles, especially for video watching and gaming to some extent, but whether someone would actually be better off with a plasma will come down to their personal needs and how their eyes react to the set. I went in expecting some plasma domination based upon what I was reading here. There's nothing magical that plasmas can do to transform when they are in the house compared to what I saw at stores given the stores had the televisions section dimmed and the things I disliked about plasmas couldn't be calibrated out. Now we can talk about television store 'torch mode' or whatever, but bottom line is just like plasmas have advantages with deeper and darker blacks on average, LCDs generally have brighter whites due to how the technology works. When sitting side by side, the difference is easily noticeable, as the plasma will usually have the 'dimmer' looking screen... just as how in some dark screens and when you are watching television in a dark room, plasmas generally have the deeper blacks. Plasmas handle motions better, but LCDs are sharper.

I can easily understand someone preferring plasma, but what I am going against is this hyperbole that plasmas just destroy LCDs and LEDs and that it's absolutely no comparison between the two technologies. They each have their advantages and disadvantages and certain factors like whether the set will be used as a monitor, whether it will be viewed in a light controlled environment or a bright environment, and other such factors have to be taken into account before we go out screaming "PANNY PLASMA! PANNY PLASMA!"
Click to expand...

How many plasmas and how many LCD's do you own? How many plasmas and LCD's do you have in your home?

What I find funny is that the people that say 'plasma ain't that great' don't own plasmas and have only seen them in stores, which you kept referring to.
 
Me and my family just moved, Needed a new tv and got this Panasonic Plasma tv [Panasonic TC-P60VT60] . How did we do gaf lol.
87350.jpg
Click to expand...
Can't wait to see how ps4 games look on here. Ps3 games and movies already look amazing ! and in 3D *.*
 
chronos4590 said:
Me and my family just moved, Needed a new tv and got this Panasonic Plasma tv [Panasonic TC-P60VT60] . How did we do gaf lol.

Can't wait to see how ps4 games look on here. Ps3 games and movies already look amazing ! and in 3D *.*
Click to expand...

You did good, that will be my baby in the coming months.
 
Nuklear said:
If money isn't an issue OLED by far. It's insane how good the Vita's screen looks and I would love to have an OLED tv to play my PS3/360/WiiU games on.
Click to expand...

Oh my god. Imagine this. 1080p OLED. Couple that with a Game like Crysis 3 or Killzone 3. Truly fucking amazing.
 
FrankNitty said:
I do agree one should get what is pleasing to their eye and plasma is not for everyone. Though In most cases, in terms of PQ, plasma does beat out LED/LCD 9/10 times. Exception being the Sharp Elite which was eclipsed by a plasma half the price the following year and a Sony HX929.

Color Accuracy, MLL, Motion, Contrast Ratio, viewing angle, etc All superior on plasma. The only things that LCD had going for it is brightness and lack of image retention....and in comes the Samsung 8500 so brightness yeah bye not an issue anymore. So really all that is left is image retention and dithering. Which IMHO is not that bad but that is subjective. bigger issue for some then others. Though you have those that can hear the plasma buzz etc so you will always have a things.

Though in terms or pur PQ LCD just doesn't cut it.
Click to expand...

This type of hyperbole drove me away from plasma sets in the first place.
To this day, I have never seen any plasma outmatch a good LCD in a well lit room, PERIOD.
Not showroom lighting, but everyday daytime 9am - 5pm in my living room lighting or past sunset with all the living room lights on.
An LCD will display superior PQ, unless you start dimming the room or close curtains.

Color Accuracy is also something that can be calibrated.

Motion comparisons, again, phosphors lag caused me to abandon plasma. I honestly thought plasma would match my CRT & blow LCDs away the way people talked about their nigh perfect motion handling. I can't believe anyone who is bothered by LCD ghosting, not be bothered by phosphors lag.
 
Lima said:
Why would you watch anything in a well lit room?
Click to expand...

Because people don't understand how ambient lighting and screen reflections affect image quality on ALL HDTV's.

This is why these same people say 'LOL LCD LOOKS BETTER.' They don't care about image quality. It's the same kind of people that say 'you don't need 400-500 horsepower in a car' or 'you don't need a powerful GPU for antialiasing, higher resolutions or other fancy effects.'

If you're the kind of person that doesn't value high end image quality and making an effort to get it, buy an LCD. If you value high end image quality, buy a plasma and take the time to minimize glare and bright ambient lighting. Why do you think movie theaters have no ambient lighting when playing a movie?

See You Next Wednesday said:
This type of hyperbole drove me away from plasma sets in the first place.
To this day, I have never seen any plasma outmatch a good LCD in a well lit room, PERIOD.
Not showroom lighting, but everyday daytime 9am - 5pm in my living room lighting or past sunset with all the living room lights on.
An LCD will display superior PQ, unless you start dimming the room or close curtains.

Color Accuracy is also something that can be calibrated.

Motion comparisons, again, phosphors lag caused me to abandon plasma. I honestly thought plasma would match my CRT & blow LCDs away the way people talked about their nigh perfect motion handling. I can't believe anyone who is bothered by LCD ghosting, not be bothered by phosphors lag.
Click to expand...

No, it won't. My plasmas still blow away my LCD's with the lights on.

Also, only certain people perceive phosphors lag in plasmas.
 
another issue you may get with plasma is green/yellow flashes on high contrast scenes, to be honest the effect dies down as the plasma ages but its still there.
 
I know this is going to sound stupid, but I cant stand Plasma. Yes, the colors are nice! The geometry is perfect, and the contrast is fantastic! ....but I HATE seeing the individual pixel square outlines. It bothers me to no end.

I was always a proponent of DLP tech, but I dont think they are being made anymore. Loved my Samsung LED DLP
 
Anybody use their sets as pc monitors for gaming and web browsing? If yes, what model do you have and what's it like? I'm planning on getting a Samsung PN60F8500 LED plasma.
 
chronos4590 said:
Me and my family just moved, Needed a new tv and got this Panasonic Plasma tv [Panasonic TC-P60VT60] . How did we do gaf lol.

Can't wait to see how ps4 games look on here. Ps3 games and movies already look amazing ! and in 3D *.*
Click to expand...

Unfortunately you just purchased a tv with pretty bad input lag. For reference, your new Panny has lag 3x higher than the Sony 802a I just bought. Might want to think about that. Your PS4 games will surely look fantastic, but what is that worth when everything feels more sluggish when you're actually playing? This will actually make games more difficult and frustrating.

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57587317-221/game-mode-on-cnet-tests-tvs-for-input-lag/
 
See You Next Wednesday said:
This type of hyperbole drove me away from plasma sets in the first place.
To this day, I have never seen any plasma outmatch a good LCD in a well lit room, PERIOD.
Not showroom lighting, but everyday daytime 9am - 5pm in my living room lighting or past sunset with all the living room lights on.
An LCD will display superior PQ, unless you start dimming the room or close curtains.

Color Accuracy is also something that can be calibrated.

Motion comparisons, again, phosphors lag caused me to abandon plasma. I honestly thought plasma would match my CRT & blow LCDs away the way people talked about their nigh perfect motion handling. I can't believe anyone who is bothered by LCD ghosting, not be bothered by phosphors lag.
Click to expand...

What bothers some doesn't effect others. It's that simple. Do plasma's have dithering yes. Is it as prevalent as it was in the past no. My old 800U from years ago had it something fierce but I could handle that better then the motion issues and artifacts that LCD's at the time produced. It's like how some people can see the rainbows in DLP's and it effects them.

Color accuracy can be calibrated but it can only get so accurate. Really is going to depend on the display and it's limitations. A good example would be the Sharp Elites. You could calibrate them damn near perfect CIE chart looked on point. nice flat grayscale. Guess what? They messed up the color decoding and cyan is off even if calibrated perfectly. That is more of a manufacture issue and not the technology but it measure great. So calibration will only get you so far and even without bugs like that it can only get so close.

I'm not saying to people go out in buy plasma. I'm saying that plasma offers a better image overall. PERIOD. Factor in all of the items that make up PQ from a calibration standpoint (these ideally would be your top priority)

Black Level
Contrast Ratio
Color Accuracy and Grayscale
Motion Resolution and Image Resolution

I have not seen many LED's that have excelled past plasma in any of these areas, and if they have, they were bested with the next years offerings.

Really when buying a display the first thing someone should ask you is what's your viewing habits, day, night, evening? Where is the display going to be placed? Is it facing a window? Will you have a lot of ambient light on it? Will it be reflecting off the screen? Then comes in things like matte, glass, gloss? Sitting position. All sorts of things come into play buying a display. So if you came in here saying hey guys. I'm buying a new TV what should I get and didn't provide any of this info? No wonder you were steered wrong.

IMHO I do believe plasma best LED all day long. As for brightness and washing out. Thats where filters come into play. I have a nicely lit living room. My ZT60 is set at 33.4fL and I can see fine in the day. 1 I do not have direct light shining on it. I can watch TV though with sliding glass door open, windows and door and see the screen. If I get a reflection...no TV is going to kill a reflection straight out regardless of tech. My 500M is set at 39.7fL (I know because I set them there as I own multiple meters, calman, chromapure, controlcal, and multiple source and test disc. I really need a pattern generator though which is next on the list) I can see them all fine in the day. I would put my displays up against any LED any day of the week.

My question to you is how bright do you need your display? Do you know how bright it is set at? Is it calibrated? (not putting in other users settings, I mean really calibrated) Just curious how bright you need your display to be as I'm sure some plasma's can reach that.

Personally I don't know many people that are home watching TV from 9am to 5pm in the day. I don't think I start watching or do my gaming until like 6 at least in most cases but hey LED works for you. That's great. Curious did you come from an LCD prior to trying plasma?

In regards to hyperbole you might as well call out damn near every major audio video forum, and site such as CNET as it is a pretty universal consensus plasma is better
 
BruiserBear said:
Unfortunately you just purchased a tv with pretty bad input lag. For reference, your new Panny has lag 3x higher than the Sony 802a I just bought. Might want to think about that. Your PS4 games will surely look fantastic, but what is that worth when everything feels more sluggish when you're actually playing? This will actually make games more difficult and frustrating.

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57587317-221/game-mode-on-cnet-tests-tvs-for-input-lag/
Click to expand...

That input lag most likely won't be noticeable to him unless he's playing very competitive fighting games or twitch-based FPS like Counterstrike, and even then it might not be noticeable. I guarantee if I put you on a 17 ms input lag display vs a 45 ms input lag display, you couldn't tell the difference in a blind test.

His TV also has about 5x better picture quality than your Sony, so he has that going for him.

FrankNitty said:
What bothers some doesn't effect others. It's that simple. Do plasma's have dithering yes. Is it as prevalent as it was in the past no. My old 800U from years ago had it something fierce but I could handle that better then the motion issues and artifacts that LCD's at the time produced. It's like how some people can see the rainbows in DLP's and it effects them.

Color accuracy can be calibrated but it can only get so accurate. Really is going to depend on the display and it's limitations. A good example would be the Sharp Elites. You could calibrate them damn near perfect CIE chart looked on point. nice flat grayscale. Guess what? They messed up the color decoding and cyan is off even if calibrated perfectly. That is more of a manufacture issue and not the technology but it measure great. So calibration will only get you so far and even without bugs like that it can only get so close.

I'm not saying to people go out in buy plasma. I'm saying that plasma offers a better image overall. PERIOD. Factor in all of the items that make up PQ from a calibration standpoint (these ideally would be your top priority)

Black Level
Contrast Ratio
Color Accuracy and Grayscale
Motion Resolution and Image Resolution

I have not seen many LED's that have excelled past plasma in any of these areas, and if they have, they were bested with the next years offerings.

Really when buying a display the first thing someone should ask you is what's your viewing habits, day, night, evening? Where is the display going to be placed? Is it facing a window? Will you have a lot of ambient light on it? Will it be reflecting off the screen? Then comes in things like matte, glass, gloss? Sitting position. All sorts of things come into play buying a display. So if you came in here saying hey guys. I'm buying a new TV what should I get and didn't provide any of this info? No wonder you were steered wrong.

IMHO I do believe plasma best LED all day long. As for brightness and washing out. Thats where filters come into play. I have a nicely lit living room. My ZT60 is set at 33.4fL and I can see fine in the day. 1 I do not have direct light shining on it. I can watch TV though with sliding glass door open, windows and door and see the screen. If I get a reflection...no TV is going to kill a reflection straight out regardless of tech. My 500M is set at 39.7fL (I know because I set them there as I own multiple meters, calman, chromapure, controlcal, and multiple source and test disc. I really need a pattern generator though which is next on the list) I can see them all fine in the day. I would put my displays up against any LED any day of the week.

My question to you is how bright do you need your display? Do you know how bright it is set at? Is it calibrated? (not putting in other users settings, I mean really calibrated) Just curious how bright you need your display to be as I'm sure some plasma's can reach that.

Personally I don't know many people that are home watching TV from 9am to 5pm in the day. I don't think I start watching or do my gaming until like 6 at least in most cases but hey LED works for you. That's great. Curious did you come from an LCD prior to trying plasma?
Click to expand...

Awesome post, put it much better than I did.
 
I prefer Plasma over LCD.

To my eye LCD doesn't reproduce colour very well. The images always look 'cartoony' if that makes sense.

Plasma is a more faithful rendition of real colour.

When watching fast moving sports as well I don't like the blurriness of the LCD
 
Soooo much hyperbole in favor of plasma. Yeah... I don't trust the Internet when it comes to AV advice anymore.

Never buying a plasma again. And yes I have a 50GT30 in my living room.
 
I vastly prefer minimal input lag compared to big nice screens.

My friend has an awesome, huge, 3D enabled television, but the thing has noticeable input lag, that makes me want to put down the controller.

Rhythm games are impossible too.


Can anyone recommend a 30-50" television/monitor, with very very little input lag?
 
I do want to add this though. I'm just all for PQ. Plasma, LED, LCD be damned. I unfortunately do not have 15k to spend on OLED. Would I buy a LED if it excelled past plasma in the PQ items I listed. In a heart beat.

Just at this current moment in time LED is not on par in terms of PQ like plasma. I do have to say I'm kind of jealous of the size LED gets and at it's pricepoint.

I was that guy that upgraded his display every year (now I'm stretching it to every other year lol) going from LED full arrays to plasma. So I have no loyalty to any particular tech or manufacture etc. All about the PQ
 
FrankNitty said:
I do want to add this though. I'm just all for PQ. Plasma, LED, LCD be damned. I unfortunately do not have 15k to spend on OLED. Would I buy a LED if it excelled past plasma in the PQ items I listed. In a heart beat.

Just at this current moment in time LED is not on par in terms of PQ like plasma. I do have to say I'm kind of jealous of the size LED gets and at it's pricepoint.

I was that guy that upgraded his display every year (now I'm stretching it to every other year lol) going from LED full arrays to plasma. So I have no loyalty to any particular tech or manufacture etc. All about the PQ
Click to expand...
The Sony w900 is probably the only decent looking LED set Ive seen this year, but its only in a 55" size...
 
NoLoveForFailWheelDrive said:
That input lag most likely won't be noticeable to him unless he's playing very competitive fighting games or twitch-based FPS like Counterstrike, and even then it might not be noticeable. I guarantee if I put you on a 17 ms input lag display vs a 45 ms input lag display, you couldn't tell the difference in a blind test.

His TV also has about 5x better picture quality than your Sony, so he has that going for him.
Click to expand...

This suggestion that bad input lag is only noticeable in "twitch based shooters" is about as credible as burn in on plasmas being a thing of the past, which I had people on AVS forums telling me in 2003. It wasn't true then, and it's not true now.

You will notice input lag doing almost anything. The degree it affects you however will vary, but it's gonna be a problem for most games. The problem is the guy playing on the high input lag tv most likely won't even know it's his tv that is making that game a great deal more difficult.

I've got a friend who bought a Samsung LED a few years ago, and it had about 60ms of lag in game mode. I was attempting to clear this level in Killzone 3 (far from being a twitch shooter), and I was having a really hard time with the game, even though I had easily cleared the same section at my house. I then realized it was because I was having a hard timing keeping my aim on these enemies because they were always a split second ahead of me. The game was not unplayable, and I was able to finish that section of the game, but that TV absolutely made that game harder, and even frustrating, and I was lucky enough to know why that was. Most people would have just chalked it up to the game. More than 30ms of input lag and gaming are just a bad mix.
 
BruiserBear said:
More than 30ms of input lag and gaming are just a bad mix.
Click to expand...

Oh, great. -_-

According to that CNET article you posted, the Samsung F8500 that I'm interested in lags by 53.1ms. The guy who wrote up the piece qualifies the score as "average".


NoLoveForFailWheelDrive said:
I guarantee if I put you on a 17 ms input lag display vs a 45 ms input lag display, you couldn't tell the difference in a blind test.
Click to expand...

I sure hope so. Can't have it all, huh?
 
skee said:
I know this is going to sound stupid, but I cant stand Plasma. Yes, the colors are nice! The geometry is perfect, and the contrast is fantastic! ....but I HATE seeing the individual pixel square outlines. It bothers me to no end.
Click to expand...

Wat? Forever stuck in 2005?
 
I was looking in the "show us your gaming set up thread" and I noticed a lot of people have projectors. Are they good for console/ PC gaming? Can they even be used for PC gaming? I am looking to build my man cave and I will have a huge wall, so I am weighing my options. Thanks!
 
BruiserBear said:
This suggestion that bad input lag is only noticeable in "twitch based shooters" is about as credible as burn in on plasmas being a thing of the past, which I had people on AVS forums telling me in 2003. It wasn't true then, and it's not true now.

You will notice input lag doing almost anything. The degree it affects you however will vary, but it's gonna be a problem for most games. The problem is the guy playing on the high input lag tv most likely won't even know it's his tv that is making that game a great deal more difficult.

I've got a friend who bought a Samsung LED a few years ago, and it had about 60ms of lag in game mode. I was attempting to clear this level in Killzone 3 (far from being a twitch shooter), and I was having a really hard time with the game, even though I had easily cleared the same section at my house. I then realized it was because I was having a hard timing keeping my aim on these enemies because they were always a split second ahead of me. The game was not unplayable, and I was able to finish that section of the game, but that TV absolutely made that game harder, and even frustrating, and I was lucky enough to know why that was. Most people would have just chalked it up to the game. More than 30ms of input lag and gaming are just a bad mix.
Click to expand...

Isn't a problem for me. I play at 60 FPS. And 60ms of lag is a far cry from 30-45 ms, lol.
 
Lv99 Slacker said:
Oh, great. -_-

According to that CNET article you posted, the Samsung F8500 that I'm interested in lags by 53.1ms. The guy who wrote up the piece qualifies the score as "average".
Click to expand...

They may call it "average", but that's a scale they created on their own. I believe the average person can feel when input lag gets into the 40s. Personally things feel pretty much normal at 30ms or less, but any higher and I can tell.
 
BruiserBear said:
They may call it "average", but that's a scale they created on their own. I believe the average person can feel when input lag gets into the 40s. Personally things feel pretty much normal at 30ms or less, but any higher and I can tell.
Click to expand...

In this case it'd be better to go by DisplayLag.com's ratings. 30-40ms is actually fine for the vast majority of people (according to them). One of their top ranked gaming HDTVs for 2013 (Samsung UN55F7100) has a 40ms rating. They obviously balanced picture quality, features, and gaming performance.
 
dmr87 said:
Panasonic ST/GT60. The GT is a slight upgrade and it has lower input lag. (GT is only available at 50" in EU, afaik)

I don't know about the S60, might be worth looking at too, don't think it's available in EU.
Click to expand...

Sadly it doesnt seem like I can find a store that sells Panasonic here, is there a samsung or LG tv that would fit the criteria I mentioned?
 
I have been looking into upgrading my TV. I have a 52 inch Sony Bravia LCD from a few years ago. I was thinking about making the jump to plasma. I been trying to read up as much as I can. Is IR on plasmas still a real issue? Some people say its not bad and others say they have images stuck on their screens for hours. I watch a lot of sports, Blu-rays, TV in general and play video games. Will this be an issue for me? Is it not worth it to go to Plasma for that reason? Any information would help. Thanks in advance.
 
DomLando said:
I have been looking into upgrading my TV. I have a 52 inch Sony Bravia LCD from a few years ago. I was thinking about making the jump to plasma. I been trying to read up as much as I can. Is IR on plasmas still a real issue? Some people say its not bad and others say they have images stuck on their screens for hours. I watch a lot of sports, Blu-rays, TV in general and play video games. Will this be an issue for me? Is it not worth it to go to Plasma for that reason? Any information would help. Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

You're going to get a lot of people telling you that plasmas no longer have burn in problems. Even people who write for TV sites will tell you this.

However, go to any forum where people discuss plasmas and you'll find people talking about how they played too much of the new Madden, and now the scoreboard is burned in on their screen. The plasma fans will tell you "that's not real burn in", but they'll suggests that window to not be considered true burn in is a very long time. So yeah, some people have re-written the rules on what is truly burn in in hopes of minimizing it's seriousness.

Bottom line, yes, burn in is still a very real problem on 2013 plasmas. If you really take care to not play any particular game too much, or watch any particular TV channel too much, and babysit the TV in some manner, you might be OK. This can also vary by model year though, so someone with a 2011 Panasonic plasma might have less burn in issues than a 2013 model. It's kinda hard to pin this stuff down.

There is really only one 2013 plasma that has respectable input lag numbers, and that's the Panasonic S60 model.

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57587317-221/game-mode-on-cnet-tests-tvs-for-input-lag/

IMO input lag in the 30-40 millisecond range is doable, but I would never recommend going higher than that.
 
So I'm looking for a new television for my PS3 (and future PS4), but I don't really know what to look for. I do know I'm looking for something 40~42", but I don't need 3D. I rarely game in the dark, but I do sometimes leave my games on menus for extended periods of time to do other stuff. Price would ideally not exceed €800,- and would preferably sit more around €500,-.

What should I be looking for; LED or plasma? Should I be looking for certain manufacturers? Any specific recommendations? Help me, GAF!
 
What would be the best TV for movies/cable. Won't be playing games on TV, already got a beast Gaming PC/Monitor.

Would Plasma be more better for "movies/cable" or LED. Only time I'd watch cable is for sports or late night shows.
 
kakashi08 said:
What would be the best TV for movies/cable. Won't be playing games on TV, already got a beast Gaming PC/Monitor.

Would Plasma be more better for "movies/cable" or LED. Only time I'd watch cable is for sports or late night shows.
Click to expand...
Plasma. "led" tv's are just LCD tv's with a different light source. You still get the same pro's and con's from a normal LCD.

Plasma gives you amazing contract & colors. Perfect for movies. Take a look at the panasonic plasma's. The 2012 line is super "cheap" for amazing quality displays. I paid €1400 for a plasma with unbeatable performance in it's price range.
 
kakashi08 said:
What would be the best TV for movies/cable. Won't be playing games on TV, already got a beast Gaming PC/Monitor.

Would Plasma be more better for "movies/cable" or LED. Only time I'd watch cable is for sports or late night shows.
Click to expand...

People point out that the TC-P60ST60 is the best for the image quality and cost for 2013. If you are willing to spend about $1500 more the TC-P60VT60 looks slightly better. Don't bother playing games on them because of the lag. Here is an example of how bad it is on the TC-P60ST60 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXMsmQqV6zs

I'm getting a TC-P60S60 or TC-P65S60 (Its the striped down version of TC-P60ST60 but has less lag) I'm getting it because 1. I don't need or care about smart tv aps 2. I don't care about 3D and 3. I want to play games on it. Here is the same guy, he switched out the TC-P60ST60 for a TC-P60S60 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXMsmQqV6zs
 
What's the difference between the Panasonic ST60 and GT60? Only £100 between them on price but hard to tell what you get for that
 
kevm3 said:
The plasma hyperbole on this forum is off the charts. Now to say one prefers plasma is one thing, but to say plasma just absolutely blows LCD/LED out of the water is a whole different issue altogether. I remember going into different stores years ago based off of the hype here and other forums expecting plasma to just annihilate LCD, but I actually came to refer to LCD. LCD is sharper with brighter whites and I don't have to worry about image retention. Guys will point out all the disadvantages of LCD, but ignore the fact that plasmas dim when the screen turn white or will have greyish whites when put next to an LCD, and like you said, the dithering, or the fact the whole screen washes out in daytime lighting. Now, for one to prefer plasma due to it's advantages is one thing, but to say plasma just annihilates LCD and the other hyperbole I hear on hear is ridiculous.
Click to expand...

You don't see a problem here?


I like LCD btw. It really depends on its application (I feel its by far the superior tech for say, mobile devices rather than OLED), but your posts read like you have your fingers in your ears.
 
I purchased a 42" S60 Panasonic plasma a few weeks ago. I cannot begin to express how satisfied I am overall. I previously owned a Sony LCD television. Let me just say that having finally switched to plasma, I`m never going back. This set utterly destroys my old LCD in every category. The one factor that always made me hesitant to buy plasma is that I use my television as a PC monitor. When I got the S60, I broke it in for 100 hours with color slides and I have had ZERO image retention issues. Nothing. Nada. The S60 also has a setting for HDMI content called `Photo` which is ideal if you plan to use it as a PC monitor. I couldn`t be happier. I live in Toronto and I paid $840 tax in. For the image quality and black hole level blacks of this set, you could easily pay 2x or more in competing LED. Dollar for dollar, I think this is the best television on the market. Highly recommended.
 
TAS said:
I purchased a 42" S60 Panasonic plasma a few weeks ago. I cannot begin to express how satisfied I am overall. I previously owned a Sony LCD television. Let me just say that having finally switched to plasma, I`m never going back. This set utterly destroys my old LCD in every category. The one factor that always made me hesitant to buy plasma is that I use my television as a PC monitor. When I got the S60, I broke it in for 100 hours with color slides and I have had ZERO image retention issues. Nothing. Nada. The S60 also has a setting for HDMI content called `Photo` which is ideal if you plan to use it as a PC monitor. I couldn`t be happier. I live in Toronto and I paid $840 tax in. For the image quality and black hole level blacks of this set, you could easily pay 2x or more in competing LED. Dollar for dollar, I think this is the best television on the market. Highly recommended.
Click to expand...

The S60 is an excellent TV, I definitely agree. I have the 50" and am constantly blown away by The Last of Us, every time I fire it up. Black levels are just lovely, same with the colours and uniformity of the picture.
 
After 7 years I just bought a new tv, upgraded from a 21 inch LCD tv to a beasting 46 inch LED.

I'm blown away by the improvement in fidelity. I expected a bit of an upgrade but holy shit it looks so amazing. Immediately popped in my blu-ray of Drive, good lord it looks sexy. Tried Assassin's Creed III afterwards, the colors blew my mind. So rich and vibrant.

It just looks so much better, the difference is shocking. I'm rambling a bit but sheesh, so good.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Sony unveils next-gen RGB mini-LED TV Tech | "OLED Killer?"
2 3
118
7K
dave_d replied
  • Poll
hypothetical: 1080p 60hz OLED, or 4k 144hz LCD?
21
656
mèx replied
  • Poll
Switch 1 OLED or Switch 2 (LCD?) for a newcomer?
Poll Hardware  2 3
105
4K
Pandawan replied
OLED gaming tv recommendations
2
70
6K
ValiantInstance replied
Gaming TV that won't break the bank? Maybe an OLED?
43
1K
KungFucius replied
Top Bottom