The Wii U was of my interest for a long time, The Wonderful 101, new Nintendo titles and etc., just needed a catalyst that would bring me over which became Bayonetta 2. For the X1, it needs a lot more than just a Platinum game (though I would absolutely hunt someone down who had one so I could play that game on his/her console) for me to consider getting one.
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PlatinumGames Community Thread | Platinum maintains its luster forever
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The Wii U was of my interest for a long time, The Wonderful 101, new Nintendo titles and etc., just needed a catalyst that would bring me over which became Bayonetta 2. For the X1, it needs a lot more than just a Platinum game (though I would absolutely hunt someone down who had one so I could play that game on his/her console) for me to consider getting one.
Short answer: Yes.
Long answer: i've been kinda hyped with Quantum Break for some time, Sunset Overdrive looks amazing and Halo 5 is giving me good vibes. I think it's pretty much certain that i'll get an X1 sooner or later. A P* game will just make me too hyped about getting it.
Also, yeah, i do buy consoles for one game, all the time. I bought a 360 to play the better version of Bayonetta anyway, even though i ended up getting other games too, like all the Cave shooters.
I will. I'm already considering it after they took off the Kinect and Halo 5 was announced, but this would make the decision for me.
Also PC gaming is good, but you gotta have the exclusives man, you just have to...
Weltall Zero
Member
It would be really painful if it was true, since I very much dislike Microsoft and I have zero (scratch that, negative) interest in an X1. I really hope the rumor is false, because it really doesn't make a lot of sense. At this point Sony should be moneyhatting the fuck out of Platinum.
Nope.
Awesome read, thanks a lot! Would you mind cross-posting it in the W101 thread? I'm sure the folks there would love to read it.
Yep. I'm currently holding off with a nextgen purchase because neither the X1 nor PS4 have any games that I'd consider system sellers. But there are some titles I'd like to see that, if announced, would seal the deal for me right away - anything coming from P*, for instance.
Though I wouldn't necessarily be there day 1 in such case, as I'm not exactly bathing in cash these days. The WiiU has a higher priority for me anyway, because W101 and Bayo2.
(and just to be clear, this isn't even blind fangirlism on my part - it's simply that I know I spend way more time on any P* release than pretty much any other game, and have more fun playing it to boot. I consider time and fun a much better measure of which system to invest in than the number of exclusives or raw computing power available.)
I wish I could, I really do, but I'm kinda low on budget. Consoles are SUPER expensive here where I live. My console of choice for this gen is PS4, because I really like Sony's first party games (I'm not a fanboy, I just like Sony's games more
) And I didn't even buy that yet. One console is expensive enough, so imagine having to buy 3 consoles to fully enjoy Platinum's titles and other games that I like, you'll see that things are pretty tough for a Platinum fan in my situation. Having all three console is awesome and you get to enjoy all the games and I don't have anything against any company or publisher, but... *sigh*I understand if you are low on budget, i know i'm being payed for shit so i know how it is.
What i do is trying to keep some money aside each month, it doesn't matter how little. You'll be surprised how much you'll have at the end of a console gen.
Anyway, i wish you luck and i suggest to wait until after E3 before you make any decision.
What i do is trying to keep some money aside each month, it doesn't matter how little. You'll be surprised how much you'll have at the end of a console gen.
Anyway, i wish you luck and i suggest to wait until after E3 before you make any decision.
Yeah I'm trying to save money. It wouldn't be enough for buying 3 consoles, but it may be enough for buying one of them.
;___;7 thanks man! Yup this E3 might change everything
I know i know, i planned to get consoles later on because i bought a WiiU recently and i am on low budget right now like Ushi
Yeah, i saw that, they will never learn
And if the X1 P* happens, nobody will complain.
This.
I wish I could, I really do, but I'm kinda low on budget. Consoles are SUPER expensive here where I live. My console of choice for this gen is PS4, because I really like Sony's first party games (I'm not a fanboy, I just like Sony's games more
Same here Ushi
Yeah, i saw that, they will never learn
And if the X1 P* happens, nobody will complain.
I'm sure some will.
It won't be on the levels of Bayonetta 2 though because "Nintendo is for teh babbies fuck you Wii U"
Couldn't have said it better.
I already have a Wii U because of TW101 & Bayo 2 (I also love Ninty's 1st party output) but I will eventually get all the systems so I'm not too concerned if a Platinum game will turn out an exclusive again. I'll probably get a Xbone this September at the EU tier 2 launch and the day Project Beast will arrive I'm getting a PS4.
In other words Platinum can release as many exclusive games as they want in the future because I'll be there day one.
InfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
In other words Platinum can release as many exclusive games as they want in the future because I'll be there day one.
Well I'm not too happy with it but the only one I'm missing is the Xbone right now so I won't have to buy anything for future games if I get that.
Yup. Platinum is currently my only system seller dev.In other words Platinum can release as many exclusive games as they want in the future because I'll be there day one.
Supermanisdead
Member
If the next Platinum game was for XB1, I would trade my PS4 in immediately. I'm already annoyed that I'm missing Titanfall and Sunset Overdrive.
And they are right tbh. Spending 500$ on an underperforming console for 1 P* game is perfectly fine, but spending 250$ on an underperforming console for 2 P* games is outrageous.
...oh wait...
Oh man, now my dream is the "Platinum Box"XD
Haha, this is me. At the very least the X1 is getting a price drop, but the X1 game would have to be Bayonetta 3 or a W101 sequel for me to jump on it within the next two years.
I hope you already have a WiiU then, because if you don't but you are thinking of buying another console to play the sequels of games that already exist and you haven't played i swear my head will explode.
Hint: I'm buying an X1 too, but first things first man.
I was agreeing with the sarcasm. The Wii U for $250 with two Platinum games and some of Nintendo's hits was a steal for me. Getting the X1 for just one Platinum game is a crazy thought to me.
Crazy thought or not i'll be sold, and i know i'm a sad person XD
InfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
I'm not crazy! I wanna play D4 too.
Okay I know this is off topic, but why all the hate for Xbox One?
Everything's gotten so much better since the anouncement and I'm really pumped for E3. The Price is down, ( It doesn't really matter where Ushi and I live xD ). And they've got great games lined up. And with P* ecxlusive, I have no reason not to buy it.
Everything's gotten so much better since the anouncement and I'm really pumped for E3. The Price is down, ( It doesn't really matter where Ushi and I live xD ). And they've got great games lined up. And with P* ecxlusive, I have no reason not to buy it.
Well, AFAIK it's still less powerful than the PS4, so multiplatform titles will look and/or perform worse on it (like they already do), unless MS does some marvels with the firmware.
Like I said above, it's not the most important aspect for me, but assuming there were no kickass exclusives or vastly superior versions available for the X1, I would totally choose the PS4. Not to mention Sony did get a slightly warmer place in my heart after the whole DRM debacle last year
Weltall Zero
Member
Microsoft. That's all there it is to it. Well, that and being weaker. And less likely to get Japanese games/exclusives. And paying for online. And no PS+. And Kinect. And the whole DRM debacle.
So, um... several reasons, I guess? Let's not turn this into yet more console war crap. Those are most of the reasons, you might agree or not, but they're there. Let's move on.
Like I said above, it's not the most important aspect for me, but assuming there were no kickass exclusives or vastly superior versions available for the X1, I would totally choose the PS4. Not to mention Sony did get a slightly warmer place in my heart after the whole DRM debacle last year
Me too. I don't care about the differnces in performence either, and QB, Halo 5, the P* ecxlusive are enough reasons for me. I'll defenitly buy a PS4, just not this year.
Hence the P* exclusive. And probably more JRPGs in the future. FFXV is realeasing for XB1 too.
You need to pay for online on PS4 too. plus XBL on 360 was way better than PSN on PS3. IDK about the next gen.
Games With Gold.
Xbox One with no Kinect coming to stores near you in Summer.
What year is this? That shit was a looooong time ago.
Yeah of course I wanna move on. didn't want to submit the post in first place.
I'll let it go, but your reasons aren't really "reasons"
#1 Reason for me: Titanfall was the first and only game for the forseeable future coming out to the X1 that I was interested in, and that game also launched on PC. Last gen I got a 360 essentially for XBLA exclusives (all of which eventually got on PC or other consoles, so that was a wash). This gen I'll probably get a PS4 for stuff like FFXV and KH3, even if I don't pick up the console for another five years. X1 literally has nothing on the horizon.
Weltall Zero
Member
I apologize, apparently "let's not turn this into yet more console war crap" wasn't clear enough.
Your generosity is noted.
Part 2 of the interview with Saur is up: http://platinumgames.com/2014/05/23/interview-with-saurian-dash-part-2/
My neck hurts from nodding to each and every word of the first paragraphs. Well, maybe not literally, but what he said is exactly how I feel about the game industry these days, very well phrased and explained.
I wish the interview had more publicity, but alas.
You wish too much. The fact that P* even exists in this age is a paradox in itself.
Scythesurge
Member
The Saur interview is awesome, this man speaks my language!
Weltall Zero
Member
I really wish more people read this interview, although the cynic in me wonders if they'd change their mind about how they perceive games. Perhaps the prevalence of cinematic, challenge-less, shallow games over deeper, more demanding, more rewarding ones is simply an extension of how in the 80's and 90's, videogames (which were, as Saur points out, mostly of the "skill-based" variety) were widely secondary to TV and movies regarding entertainment. It's not so much that cinematic games have displaced skill-based games; it's that they're filling the much more mainstream niche that TV and other passive entertainment used to have. The really bad part is how most game studios go for this, larger cow, and even though the industry is larger than it's ever been, the number of skill-based games is smaller than ever.
I think this thread would be as good a place as any other to tell each other of reasonably recent, deeper, skill-based games we know and love. Admittedly, my list is pretty short and barely includes any non-indie game (I'm omitting P* games for redundancy), but hey, here it is:
I think this thread would be as good a place as any other to tell each other of reasonably recent, deeper, skill-based games we know and love. Admittedly, my list is pretty short and barely includes any non-indie game (I'm omitting P* games for redundancy), but hey, here it is:
- FTL (single game takes less than three hours, sunk over 100 hours).
- Spelunky (single game takes half an hour, sunk over 100 hours)
- Dark Souls series
- Maldita Castilla, Gaurodan and other games by Locomalito
- Luftrausers
- Soul Sacrifice
That is a very good idea. We can find more games that are closer to our tastes this way. And the list reminded me to play Luftrausers
My list isn't ready yet, but on the top of my head, I personally always found Street Fighter IV and its versions quite challenging and skill-based (I didn't play the other SF games as much so i don't know about them). Some may disagree, but I guess SFIV was the best and most balanced fighting game this gen.This also reminded me how much I want a fighting game by Platinum
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Thinking about the observations in Saur's interview... I'm reminded of the criticism numerous people make about Platinum games having "bad" stories, in that the stories are intentionally absurdist and refuse to strive for western style cinematic legitimacy. (As judged by the critics.)
Aside from the fact there are already so many video games trying to be "serious" that the audience is spoiled for choice, that perspective doesn't actually respect the story supporting the play mechanics of a game. (The emphasis today often seems on the game supporting the story instead.) A so-called serious style of storytelling would likely be ridiculous in the context of a Platinum game. It would be The Last of Us with combo meters and performance medals, and killing God at the end. I've never been bothered by Platinum's characters and stories. Not because the story presentation is irrelevant. Rather their stories do a good job of supporting the abstract mechanics and structure of the games. The mood set works with the gamelike experience, not against it.
But I think much of what Saur is talking about was pre-saged by the way video games expanded as entertainment starting with the Playstation era. Sony was cunning enough to recognize that to the average person, the arcade nature of the most visible video game products (Nintendo, Sega, arcades) wasn't interesting a wider mainstream. But audio-visual presentations that brought games closer to motion pictures and television could do the trick.
That the skill component was also de-emphasized as time went on and focus testing shaved off every sharp corner of big budget games could be more indicative of wider trends in culture though. It's not just entertainment. Plenty of people don't feel the need to engage in hobbies that involve growth or skill. Many think they're supposed to stop learning once they finish school and are "done with that". There's the infamous David Cage interview where he basically says grown-ups don't want to be challenged and learn, that's kiddie stuff.
It's kind of funny, but in an expanding landscape what was once the primary definition of a video game is now "inner city" and a bit poverty, while the suburbs have become something else.
Edit: though as one other thought, the growing popularity of 'e-sports' type gaming could eventually shift perceptions again. People at least understand sports and while many don't take it seriously yet because LOL nerds, it is still spreading the notion once again that computer games can be primarily contests of skill.
Aside from the fact there are already so many video games trying to be "serious" that the audience is spoiled for choice, that perspective doesn't actually respect the story supporting the play mechanics of a game. (The emphasis today often seems on the game supporting the story instead.) A so-called serious style of storytelling would likely be ridiculous in the context of a Platinum game. It would be The Last of Us with combo meters and performance medals, and killing God at the end. I've never been bothered by Platinum's characters and stories. Not because the story presentation is irrelevant. Rather their stories do a good job of supporting the abstract mechanics and structure of the games. The mood set works with the gamelike experience, not against it.
But I think much of what Saur is talking about was pre-saged by the way video games expanded as entertainment starting with the Playstation era. Sony was cunning enough to recognize that to the average person, the arcade nature of the most visible video game products (Nintendo, Sega, arcades) wasn't interesting a wider mainstream. But audio-visual presentations that brought games closer to motion pictures and television could do the trick.
That the skill component was also de-emphasized as time went on and focus testing shaved off every sharp corner of big budget games could be more indicative of wider trends in culture though. It's not just entertainment. Plenty of people don't feel the need to engage in hobbies that involve growth or skill. Many think they're supposed to stop learning once they finish school and are "done with that". There's the infamous David Cage interview where he basically says grown-ups don't want to be challenged and learn, that's kiddie stuff.
It's kind of funny, but in an expanding landscape what was once the primary definition of a video game is now "inner city" and a bit poverty, while the suburbs have become something else.
Edit: though as one other thought, the growing popularity of 'e-sports' type gaming could eventually shift perceptions again. People at least understand sports and while many don't take it seriously yet because LOL nerds, it is still spreading the notion once again that computer games can be primarily contests of skill.
Weltall Zero
Member
That is a very good idea. We can find more games that are closer to our tastes this way. And the list reminded me to play Luftrausers
This also reminded me how much I want a fighting game by Platinum
Oh yeah, SFIV is a favorite of mine; accessible yet deep. I keep coming back to it even though I want to learn other fighting games (especially now that PS+ is handing out quite a few of them). The biggest reason is that it's so damn pretty, attractive and playable, so most of my friends play it often.
Another fighting game that's close to my heart is Smash Bros. Much like many P* games, it's deceptively easy to learn the basics but surprisingly deep once you get serious. Really looking forward for Smash 4, and even though Wonder Red is pretty much deconfirmed, I'm still holding hope for Bayonetta.
Still, there's quite a few examples of deep games, not only within fighting games, but with multiplayer games at large. While they're, obviously, awesome, I was in a way more interested in single player games that fit the bill, since they're that much, much rarer.
While I understand what you say, there is a right and a wrong way to do it. The most important thing is that a story doesn't have to be serious to be good, that's a false dichotomy. The best examples for this are Bayonetta's story versus TW101's. Neither of them is particularly serious, but TW101 is definitely by far the most tongue-in-cheek. However, it's also by far the best, because it's coherent, it makes us care about its characters, develops them, and the over-the-topness works incredibly well in that context. Bayonetta's story is a mess. Stuff happens at random. Supposedly earth-shattering revelations (
Cereza being Bayonetta's past self
It's not like other Kamiya games don't have good stories, either. Resident Evil 2 was a masterclass of intertwining stories and an amazing improvement over RE1, and Okami's story is delightful in the way it merges together so much Japanese folklore and mythology.
This, however, is spot on; I admit I'm addicted to learning. I get sidetracked time and again by stuff I didn't know about (Wikipedia is dangerous). I have so many hobbies I'd need ten lifetimes, and another ten for the ones I would like to have as well. This extends to videogames, which again is why roguelikes are so fascinating to me: they FORCE you to learn because that's all the progression you get.
I keep forgetting and relearning that not everyone is like that, or that even those that are, tend to have a rather more restricted field of interest than I do, even within a single hobby. I try to come to terms with that fact but I guess my mind finds it so fundamentally sad that it just can't. :/
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Bear in mind I only refer to the attitude that Platinum stories are bad because they aren't serious and grown up tone and subject matter, full stop. I would be the first to agree Bayonetta's script at the very least badly needed more editing. And TW101 is remarkably well done considering how many characters, plot twists, and genre conventions it crams together into a tangled ball.
Though maybe Kamiya and crew learned a lot from Bayonetta. TW101 shoots for the same kind of outrageous ever-escalating scope, framed by self-referential, often absurdist humor with hidden mature themes. Way tighter and more internally consistent however.
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
I've echoed some of these same sentiments before, and we just had yet another David Cage thread where I felt compelled to ramble pointlessly on that subject again, so I'm gonna refrain from saying anything else here.
I like this idea, sadly other than Platinum I can't think of other people making the same kinds of games really. Maybe Cave or Treasure in one direction, or Paradox in a different sense, but my experience with all of the above are embarrassingly limited, something I really should rectify. I mean, to some extent, there are many games you could commit to and experiment with and master, but unlike Ulililili-whatever I can't bring myself to play 5000 hours of Bubsy 3D. I have an oddly large amount of respect for him because of that though, tbh
I will say, this is good motivation to play more games focused on nurturing and requiring skill development rather than just bitching like I usually do.
Saur nailed it in the interview.
This is the constant conflict inside the gaming community and also this forum. It's an opinion war between people who maybe grew up in the arcades, maybe a bit older or maybe picked deep and challenging games from the begining and at the other hand the people who maybe because they picked up gaming later, maybe lazyness or just because they never were gamers but just were looking for a community to fit in formed the new generation of gamers.
We've seen it happening all the time here, and while it's stupid to claim knowledge of the single truth while the opposite side is inherently wrong, because let's face it, gaming is entertainment and everyone has the right to be entertained the way they want, we must make sure we are being supportive to the games and devs and publishers that share our tastes, so that this, one of the niche nowadays, branch of gaming, survives in the future.
I for one am happy to know other enthusiasts such as yourselves and i hope that only better days await.
This is the constant conflict inside the gaming community and also this forum. It's an opinion war between people who maybe grew up in the arcades, maybe a bit older or maybe picked deep and challenging games from the begining and at the other hand the people who maybe because they picked up gaming later, maybe lazyness or just because they never were gamers but just were looking for a community to fit in formed the new generation of gamers.
We've seen it happening all the time here, and while it's stupid to claim knowledge of the single truth while the opposite side is inherently wrong, because let's face it, gaming is entertainment and everyone has the right to be entertained the way they want, we must make sure we are being supportive to the games and devs and publishers that share our tastes, so that this, one of the niche nowadays, branch of gaming, survives in the future.
I for one am happy to know other enthusiasts such as yourselves and i hope that only better days await.
Weltall Zero
Member
By all means, neither of those two sides of gaming is "wrong" at all, not any more than films or TV as a medium are wrong. I think the biggest issue is how big of a skew there is currently against skill-based games. I mean, I make my post above hoping to learn of games in this style, or at the very least be reminded of games I had left out, but so far it seems that not many (any?) other games of this kind have come up! I would be lying if I said I didn't find that disappointing, and a harsh reminder of that reality...
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
I do find it interesting that so many indie game makers are interested in what could be seen as "hardcore" learning-based genres like roguelikes. There seems to have practically been a roguelike explosion in the last few years if indies are counted.
Being the Platinum thread, I have to wonder what a Platinum take on a rogue style game would be.
Being the Platinum thread, I have to wonder what a Platinum take on a rogue style game would be.
It's funny, but up until kinda recently, I was definitely in the category of cinematic gamer. I played games as a kid, but I think I went through a stretch of about 5 years where I just didn't game much, and then picked it up again when I bought the ps3 in 2008. And because of that, Uncharted and the like were the types of games that I bought, and I thought they were the best that games had to offer. It wasn't until I bought a Wii a couple years later that I discovered Super Mario Galaxy and DKCR that I started to consciously realise that gameplay driven games gave me more pleasure. After that the Souls games were further proof, and then I discovered Platinum, which was like being baptised. I think considering that, it's possible that more people could also find a passion for gameplay if they became exposed to it.
I liked Bayonetta's story and lore (as far as character action games go, it's probably the best I've seen), but I definitely didn't like how it was presented. I shouldn't have to watch all cutscenes twice to get a hang on what's going on.
That said, I'm generally OK with stories in Platinum games. I think I recall reading an interview with Kamiya long ago where he stated that he sees the role of a story in a videogame as a simple justification of why you're fighting the bad dudes, and little more - though I can't find this interview anywhere now - and I'm OK with this approach. One thing I'd want Platinum to stop doing in their stories is faking character deaths, though, it never comes up convincing and ends up creating eyerolling moments every time.
You know, this is a bit of a weird thing. I grew up in the 90s myself, but it wasn't until I played DMC3 that I realized that it's "getting gud" that I find the most fun in games, and if anything, I only grow more fundamentalist as I age But I know people who were into hardcore gaming before, playing lots of fighting games and such, who are now "well I have a job and shit, I'm not wasting my life on hard games anymore, it's all e-penis contest really". So I think it's hard to make a generalization like "most games are cinematic and shallow now because people who were not into games before created the market" or similar.
This, too, absolutely. I'm not saying that one way or the other is wrong or right. I'm all for diversity and everyone being able to play what they find fun - it's just that a part of me finds it kinda sad that some of the most successful games these days are those that basically play themselves, and that the market for challenge-heavy, deep games seems to be so tiny. I tried to come up with some non-Platinum games to list and I couldn't really think of anything, other than maybe Dungeons of Dredmor, but I'm not sure if it fits the bill.
I think that Saur's complaint about reviewers and gaming media is quite valid. I know bashing game journalists is not exactly a groundbreaking thing to do, but I'm sure the gaming press has its part in forming the market, and they consistently reward high production values over depth and high skill ceiling. I were positively surprised when Bayonetta got such an enthusiastic critical reception, but even as I read the reviews praising it I couldn't help but feel the reviewers didn't really understand the game they played. The only one that mentioned the hard mode and how the game handles difficulty levels was Edge, I think.
That said, I'm generally OK with stories in Platinum games. I think I recall reading an interview with Kamiya long ago where he stated that he sees the role of a story in a videogame as a simple justification of why you're fighting the bad dudes, and little more - though I can't find this interview anywhere now - and I'm OK with this approach. One thing I'd want Platinum to stop doing in their stories is faking character deaths, though, it never comes up convincing and ends up creating eyerolling moments every time.
You know, this is a bit of a weird thing. I grew up in the 90s myself, but it wasn't until I played DMC3 that I realized that it's "getting gud" that I find the most fun in games, and if anything, I only grow more fundamentalist as I age
But I know people who were into hardcore gaming before, playing lots of fighting games and such, who are now "well I have a job and shit, I'm not wasting my life on hard games anymore, it's all e-penis contest really". So I think it's hard to make a generalization like "most games are cinematic and shallow now because people who were not into games before created the market" or similar.This, too, absolutely. I'm not saying that one way or the other is wrong or right. I'm all for diversity and everyone being able to play what they find fun - it's just that a part of me finds it kinda sad that some of the most successful games these days are those that basically play themselves, and that the market for challenge-heavy, deep games seems to be so tiny. I tried to come up with some non-Platinum games to list and I couldn't really think of anything, other than maybe Dungeons of Dredmor, but I'm not sure if it fits the bill.
I think that Saur's complaint about reviewers and gaming media is quite valid. I know bashing game journalists is not exactly a groundbreaking thing to do, but I'm sure the gaming press has its part in forming the market, and they consistently reward high production values over depth and high skill ceiling. I were positively surprised when Bayonetta got such an enthusiastic critical reception, but even as I read the reviews praising it I couldn't help but feel the reviewers didn't really understand the game they played. The only one that mentioned the hard mode and how the game handles difficulty levels was Edge, I think.
You know, this is a bit of a weird thing. I grew up in the 90s myself, but it wasn't until I played DMC3 that I realized that it's "getting gud" that I find the most fun in games, and if anything, I only grow more fundamentalist as I age
I agree with your points, that's why there were so many 'maybes' in my post. I just can't label all gamers that play the same games as i do as having followed the same path in life as i did or vice versa, but i guess we can do some general observations.
And yea, i become more fundamentalist as you say it the more i age too. I also find myself feeling an unbearable loss of how things used to be and i'm terrified i'll end up being another old timer with a mind stuck to the past and little drive to try new things.
For the record i try new things all the time, or at least i'm trying to
Weltall Zero
Member
I'm probably the oldest gamer around here, being exposed to games as early as 1980, with the early 8-bit micros). Back then games (aside, obviously, from being very simple) were often insanely hard, as they had to last a long time using extremely limited assets and mechanics (development teams' headcounts rarely went into the double digits, sometimes being a single guy). Even games that pushed the envelope later on were almost invariably tough as nails, so in order to beat any of them, you had to be damn good (this was when I was a kid, of course, so that also adds up).
It's funny because most people remember the NES era as being really hard, while for me it was a revolutionary step on how much easier the games were. Of course it also came with a huge jump in game quality and length, so it worked out fine: for me this is about right as far as difficulty goes. Then each subsequent era has grown easier and easier as games became longer and longer, and based around different goals (being "cinematic", being addicting thanks to progression mechanics, rather than actual player skill progression, etc.). Again, you can easily see that progression within game series themselves, especially long runners like Mario and Final Fantasy.
I have a feeling faking character deaths is more of a nod to the shows they're affectionately parodying than any actual effort to convince the player they're dead. In other words, it's part of the deliberate cheese.
You know, this is a bit of a weird thing. I grew up in the 90s myself, but it wasn't until I played DMC3 that I realized that it's "getting gud" that I find the most fun in games, and if anything, I only grow more fundamentalist as I age
It's true that I know people (and NeoGAF is full of them) that played hard games when they were younger, but can't be bothered to do so anymore, often citing (understandably) tighter schedules due to work, family, etc. I find myself having the most satisfying, uninterrupted and guaranteed game time during my commutes to and from work, which is part of the reason the list of games I posted above includes a few Vita games. I still make a point to play games when I have free time at home, but it's true that it takes me quite a long time to extract all I want of a game (I've been playing W101 for a couple months now and I'm still missing several characters).
It fits the bill perfectly, being a "classic" roguelike. Pretty much any roguelike in that mold would fit, from the many ASCII-based ones on PC, to the Mystery Dungeon series (even if the latter make lots of concessions for the sake of accessibility, particularly the Chocobo ones).
Yeah, perhaps it's not realistic to expect a game journalist to devote a hundred hours to complete all of Bayonetta's difficulty levels and explore all the nuances of its combat system; they're probably not paid enough, and a review has to come out within a reasonable window around the game's release. In fact, it might be argued that it makes more sense to write a review based on a few dozen hours of play, as reviews are meant to be aimed at the general public, not necessarily the hardcore fans like us, who will probably have better information sources like NeoGAF itself.
I agree with your points, that's why there were so many 'maybes' in my post. I just can't label all gamers that play the same games as i do as having followed the same path in life as i did or vice versa, but i guess we can do some general observations.
And yea, i become more fundamentalist as you say it the more i age too. I also find myself feeling an unbearable loss of how things used to be and i'm terrified i'll end up being another old timer with a mind stuck to the past and little drive to try new things.
For the record i try new things all the time, or at least i'm trying to
I see myself reflected in this post completely, although I'm optimistic thanks to the amazing channel that is indie game development now. Have any of you guys/gals yet to try FTL and/or Spelunky? They're seriously pure gold.
Played Spelunky and while i wouldn't call it pure gold it's a great Vita time killer for me. I like it.
I completely agree. Platinum knows what they are doing with the story of their games. When the priority is the gameplay, everything should be at gameplay's service. For example, imagine slaying enemies as fast as lightning in MGR, but to know more about the "story", you are forced to stop and watch a 30 min long cut-scene every 10 minutes. It completely destroys what MGR is. Platinum titles not having a "serious" story/story telling is not a weakness. Its how it should be.
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P.S: Lernaean
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