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[TMLT]

As a gamer in the 90s in the UK I fully relate to a lot of the stuff in your post OP.

Lol @ some folks here trying to discredit the PS1s role too. Did edgy games and adult gamers exist before the PS1? sure, but it wasnt the norm yet. If you were an adult gamer in 1991 people generally thought you were a nerd and weird. If you were an adult gamer in 1999 playing Resi or Tomb Raider or MGS or Gran Turismo you were considered cool and on the pulse. The PS1 was largely responsible for that.

I think a lot of people never got over the fact that they were stuck with a N64.

Yeah, I dont dislike the N64, its a solid console, but I always feel a little bemused by the retroactive praise it seems to get and wonder if it was more an American perspective or something. In the UK at that time it seemed pretty damn clear that the PS1 was kicking the shit out of it and pushing gaming forward much more. To be an N64 owner exclusively was to be left out in the cold.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

For crying out loud, my own father was the one who one evening came to me and said, “How about we get a PlayStation?”.

I recall going to my friend’s house (one of the few who had an N64) and his dad was sat in the living room playing Gran Turismo. “I didn’t know you had a PlayStation” I remarked, my friend replied “I don’t, it’s my dad’s”. Probably the first time I ever saw a grown man playing a video game on his own. His wife didn’t seem too impressed, mind.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Yeah, I dont dislike the N64, it’s a solid console, but I always feel a little bemused by the retroactive praise it seems to get and wonder if it was more an American perspective or something. In the UK at that time it seemed pretty damn clear that the PS1 was kicking the shit out of it and pushing gaming forward much more. To be an N64 owner exclusively was to be left out in the cold.

For those of you in America, here’s an illustration of how dominant PlayStation was in the 90s in the UK/Europe…

North America
PS - 40.7m
N64 - 20.6m
Sat - 1.8m
DC - 4.6m

Europe
PS - 40.1m
N64 - 4.5m
Sat - 1m
DC - 1.6m

Saturn had a similar disastrous launch to the US, only with 4 games instead of 6, also Virtua Fighter 2 and Sega Rally were nowhere to be seen come Christmas 95. After Christmas 96 shops like Virgin Megastores dropped the format.

N64 got delayed until March 97, as always Nintendo treated Europe like garbage. That video with the kids opening a present on Christmas morning shouting “Nintendo Sixty Fooouuurrr”… the UK equivalent were more likely unwrapping a PlayStation with Crash Bandicoot instead. There was to be no Sony vs Nintendo console war here

Dreamcast didn’t quite give Sega Europe the bounce back they received in the US either. SoulCalibur was absent from launch. Americans were treated to the NFL2K and NBA2K series while we didn’t get a single decent soccer game. We only got half the amount of online games too, complete with a much slower modem.

Safe to say PlayStation dominated the late 90s here in the UK and the rest of Europe, shops like GAME, HMV, EB and Virgin were mostly wall to wall PlayStation.

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

Did you just gloss over the part where I mention the Mega Drive/Genesis?

>197 million systems sold in the 5th generation, not even including arcade cabinets

>No maintstrean

Pick one.

In 10 years, PlayStation fanboys will start claiming they invented gaming.

Not my point, man.

You’re glossing over the very obvious fact that there was a lot of juxtaposition between the buyers of SNES, MD and GB. So that wasn’t 197 million people, far from that. It’d be also quite difficult to sustain the notion that Sega impacted on the post-teen audience anywhere near to the extent that the PS did, or that the Game Boy was seen as anything more than a cheap toy for kids, except for the commuting Japanese salaryman.

With the PS, working adults were buying and playing video games and starting to think that there was nothing wrong with it.
I remember a magazine featuring an article where UK salarymen told their tales of finding themselves playing Wipeout and Destruction Derby into the early hours, on a weekday. Imagine the same people willingly letting someone interview them, with full-face photographs, about doing the same with their Mega Drive, just two years prior.

PlayStation didn’t invent gaming. But it unquestionably changed forever the public image of video games, everywhere. I don’t see how this is debatable. Plus, if Sega really did it before, then an explanation is needed as to why Sega evaporated in little more than 5 years after PlayStation entered the scene.

PS1 is one of my favourite consoles and probably my favourite of the playstation consoles however i hated the angle they took with marketing with all the try hard, edgy grown up lads culture shit. It was everywhere and even back then it was cringy, kids desperate to be seen as grown up. Compre it to japan where it was marketed to everyone with silly & fun commercials as well as more adult ones, here in the uk nope just edgy teens and twentysomethings.

That’s marketing for you. And it worked wonders.
BTW, every video game company was full-on edgy in advertising in the first half of the 90s. We have a thread about that. Even Nintendo was doing ridiculously edgy ads for the agonizing Game Boy of all things. Sony went the extra mile though, and they proved they knew their target audience extremely well at the time.

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

For those of you in America, here’s an illustration of how dominant PlayStation was in the 90s in the UK/Europe…

North America
PS - 40.7m
N64 - 20.6m
Sat - 1.8m
DC - 4.6m

Europe
PS - 40.1m
N64 - 4.5m
Sat - 1m
DC - 1.6m

Saturn had a similar disastrous launch to the US, only with 4 games instead of 6, also Virtua Fighter 2 and Sega Rally were nowhere to be seen come Christmas 95. After Christmas 96 shops like Virgin Megastores dropped the format.

N64 got delayed until March 97, as always Nintendo treated Europe like garbage. That video with the kids opening a present on Christmas morning shouting “Nintendo Sixty Fooouuurrr”… the UK equivalent were more likely unwrapping a PlayStation with Crash Bandicoot instead. There was to be no Sony vs Nintendo console war here

Dreamcast didn’t quite give Sega Europe the bounce back they received in the US either. SoulCalibur was absent from launch. Americans were treated to the NFL2K and NBA2K series while we didn’t get a single decent soccer game. We only got half the amount of online games too, complete with a much slower modem.

Safe to say PlayStation dominated the late 90s here in the UK and the rest of Europe, shops like GAME, HMV, EB and Virgin were mostly wall to wall PlayStation.

Software prices and widespread piracy also helped PlayStation immensely. I literally didn’t know a single PS owner whose console wasn’t modded.
Conversely, N64 software was very expensive (like, 3x the price of a PlayStation Platinum-range game, which was another very clever idea from Sony), and only the most dedicated would find a way to pirate N64 games.

Anyway, the bottom line is that Nintendo was barely a blip on the radar in Europe before the Wii. If they didn’t have a handheld line, they’d probably have completely given up on the continent before that.

 

[skit_data]

Wipeout was probably the first time I’d heard real world music in a game before and it included some absolute bangers.

Apparently this was due to Sony having record rights with the likes of The Prodigy, Chemical Brothers etc

Sony UK’s decision to associate PlayStation with clubbing really paid off I think

Yeah, I realized a couple of years ago that much of my musical taste (jungle/DnB) probably stems from it being used frequently in PS1 games. I wasn't much of a music consumer as a kid but during the mid teenage years I "rediscovered" those genres. A bit funny to see Photek made tracks for Wipeout, arguably one of the artists that pioneered the particular sound I like within those genres.

 

[Gaiff]

Not my point, man.

You’re glossing over the very obvious fact that there was a lot of juxtaposition between the buyers of SNES, MD and GB. So that wasn’t 197 million people, far from that. It’d be also quite difficult to sustain the notion that Sega impacted on the post-teen audience anywhere near to the extent that the PS did, or that the Game Boy was seen as anything more than a cheap toy for kids, except for the commuting Japanese salaryman.

No amount of juxtaposition will make 197 million units go from mainstream to not mainstream. The post I quoted stated that PlayStation made gaming mainstream which is laughably false. Gaming was almost 20 years old by the time the PS1 hit the scene and hundreds of millions of systems were sold following the crash.

With the PS, working adults were buying and playing video games and starting to think that there was nothing wrong with it.
I remember a magazine featuring an article where UK salarymen told their tales of finding themselves playing Wipeout and Destruction Derby into the early hours, on a weekday. Imagine the same people willingly letting someone interview them, with full-face photographs, about doing the same with their Mega Drive, just two years prior.

Do you mean with games like Daytona, DOOM, Mortal Kombat, Killer Instinct, Fifa 93, Wolfenstein 3D, or the myriad of other "mature" games?

PlayStation didn’t invent gaming. But it unquestionably changed forever the public image of video games, everywhere. I don’t see how this is debatable. Plus, if Sega really did it before, then an explanation is needed as to why Sega evaporated in little more than 5 years after PlayStation entered the scene.

It's debatable because PlayStation didn't just change it overnight nor did it do it by itself. The younger audience that grew up with NES games naturally got older and so did the developers who made games for them. What PlayStation did was contribute to a trend that had already been going on for years prior to its introduction. The term "revolution" means a sudden and major change. You're postulating that it's all due to PlayStation and that the moment it hit the scene, boom, everything changed, and that's utterly false. Things continued changing and the pace increased even more with the PS1 but, it didn't invent a new current that overtook gaming by storm. The NES revolutionized gaming and licensing. Home systems revolutionized how games which were mainly restricted to arcades by getting them into people's living rooms. Hell, even Xbox Live revolutionized online console gaming (for better or for worse) These are rapid and major shifts that happened very quickly. What you're describing with PlayStation didn't. Sega was already pushing the angle that Nintendo was for children and that they had the stuff for teens and grown-ups. All these edgy ads they did with racers, sports games, and the like were well under way by the time we got the PS1.

You're attributing all those changes to PlayStation when it's provably false that they were the first doing it, let alone the only ones.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

With the PS, working adults were buying and playing video games and starting to think that there was nothing wrong with it.
I remember a magazine featuring an article where UK salarymen told their tales of finding themselves playing Wipeout and Destruction Derby into the early hours, on a weekday. Imagine the same people willingly letting someone interview them, with full-face photographs, about doing the same with their Mega Drive, just two years prior.

Yeah the official magazine was an important part of it, they did tours around the the universities in the UK promoting the game (again part of the “everyone wants to be 19” marketing). The demos really did a good job at promoting upcoming games too.

The Feb 1999 issue with the MgS demo outsold all the lad’s mags like FHM and Loaded that month, shame that by the mid 00s it had turned into Nuts.

Whoever gave Castlevania SOTN a 7 can f***ing do one though.

As for Sega Rally, to be fair it was the Saturn’s best selling game in the UK, bloody brilliant back in early 96.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Yeah, I realized a couple of years ago that much of my musical taste (jungle/DnB) probably stems from it being used frequently in PS1 games. I wasn't much of a music consumer as a kid but during the mid teenage years I "rediscovered" those genres. A bit funny to see Photek made tracks for Wipeout, arguably one of the artists that pioneered the particular sound I like within those genres.

That’s some gourmet shit right there my friend…




I’ll also credit the original Gran Turismo to me discovering a lovely little Scottish band called Garbage with this track…




F*** me do I miss the 90s

 

[skit_data]

That’s some gourmet shit right there my friend…




I’ll also credit the original Gran Turismo to me discovering a lovely little Scottish band called Garbage with this track…




F*** me do I miss the 90s

Yeah, I actually have a few Garbage songs in one of my spotify playlists! It's been a while since I last listened to them though, might have to go through their discography because I've pretty much only listened to Absolute Garbage which I assume is a greatest hits collection (or a genious album name). I really like the song "Push It" from the ones I've heard!

On the topic of great GT songs The Cardigans have really grown on me as I've gotten older. They were probably among swedens biggest bands when I was a kid and many of their songs were on repeat on the radio. As an adult I really miss the times there was decent music playing on radio stations,


Edit: It's actually pretty wierd they named the album Gran Turismo and that My Favourite Game is featured in GT2, must be some kind of story behind that whole thing xD

 

[RickMasters]

Playstation definitely slapped over here in the UK in terms of lad culture for all the reasons you mentioned.

I remember that whole lad culture era. Loaded magazine and max power….. loud exhausts on fiestas and Peugeots at car meets. 16 year olds doing burnouts on 50cc mopeds. Mens intrest magazines sticking Lara craft on their front covers like she was a real actual woman. Everybody wore reebok classics and stunk of versace blue jeans…. DnB raves and house n garage music was the shit. Manchester United was damn near unstoppable.


It’s just the U.K. youth culture in the 90s I guess But for sure Playstation hit all the right marketing notes and booths were at all the right places. Their marketing was impeccable at the time. You’d see PS game adds slapped on the sides of buses like it was movies or Levi’s.

 

[existensmaximum]

Eh, I was never impressed by the Playstation. To me it was a massive step down from the 8- and 16-bit consoles.

 

[CGNoire]

I think another overlooked aspect is the design of the console and just how futuristic it looked at the time.

While Sega and Nintendo went with black curves (which was ubiquitous with early 90s tech), Sony went with a light grey angular look to match their new WEGA TV sets (WEGA CRTs were the first TV sets that had a flat screen)

Apparently these TVs were grey/silver so that, when viewed at an angle, the flat edge of the screen would stand out. Eventually the rest of the industry would follow and light grey/silver would become synonymous with the "Y2K aesthetic", not just for televisions, but for consumer tech in general.

This resulted in PlayStation looking cool and modern while N64 and Saturn looked dated (oddly enough the Japanese Saturn was light grey and didn't date like the western version)

What game is that first pic?

 

[bosnianpie]

Funnily enough now I’ve got a kid I find myself playing a lot more Mario

Yeah man, nothing wrong with Mario at all but pretty hard to sell when talking to 15 year olds that just discovered GTA.

 

[Raven117]

As a kid who’s family didn’t have a ton of money to spend on entertainment, the choice of console was huge.

Making the decision to jump from SNES to PS was absolutely huge, and a huge risk. Only on the promise of those glossy magazine previews for FFVII did I take the leap.

We all know it all worked out, and I never looked back. I didn’t have a Nintendo console again until the Switch.

 

[SenkiDala]

Well no, it wasn't new. That's the point. You had more of them, but it is not as if they were non-existent. And this was a natural tendency anyway, SEGA have always been large supporters of RPGs and were releasing in the West a ton of them while Nintendo and other publishers weren't doing any effort. Not only were they releasing them, but they were behind the development/funding of a ton of them.

Sony or not, it would have evolved this way.

Well I know you love Sega, I love SEGA Mag too, no problem.

But it is noticable how Sony pushed the translation, making games "mainstream" was a good thing for the industry, building a console with the FIRST thing in mind "what do need the devs ?" and building the console around that question (that changed a lot with the PS2 and PS3), I know that there are many SEGA fans (I am one) who like to belittle Sony's impact in the world of video games (I am not one), out of a "revengeful" spirit of "you killed the Dreamcast, bastard", but we must recognize the colossal impact of Sony in video games, no one has had as much impact, not even Nintendo.

 

[Gaiff]

no one has had as much impact, not even Nintendo.

 

[SenkiDala]

I don't talk only about the games but about the popularity of gaming across all age groups.

 

[SweetTooth]

", but we must recognize the colossal impact of Sony in video games, no one has had as much impact, not even Nintendo

Ninty fans are still amazed by graphics from 2009. I wonder what will happen to them if they finally use proper voice chat online or see Raytraced Mario lol.

 

[cireza]

but we must recognize the colossal impact of Sony in video games

I have no issue recognizing their impact. Actually I would have preferred for them to not make such an impact.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

I assume you’re American.

Over here Nintendo just wasn’t that popular, during the 3rd and 4th generations SEGA ruled, the Master System outsold the NES and the MegaDrive outsold the SNES. Sonic and Alex Kidd were bigger than Mario.

SEGA put in the hard work and it paid off, Nintendo treated the UK and Europe as an afterthought and they suffered for it.

The N64 got delayed until March 97, missing the big Christmas 96 period and ended up flopping, same for the GameCube arriving late in 2002.

 

[SweetTooth]

I assume you’re American.

Over here Nintendo just wasn’t that popular, during the 3rd and 4th generations SEGA ruled, the Master System outsold the NES and the MegaDrive outsold the SNES. Sonic and Alex Kidd were bigger than Mario.

SEGA put in the hard work and it paid off, Nintendo treated the UK and Europe as an afterthought and they suffered for it.

The N64 got delayed until March 97, missing the big Christmas 96 period and ended up flopping, same for the GameCube arriving late in 2002.

This is Gaiff in a nutshell

 

[Gaiff]

I assume you’re American.

Over here Nintendo just wasn’t that popular, during the 3rd and 4th generations SEGA ruled, the Master System outsold the NES and the MegaDrive outsold the SNES. Sonic and Alex Kidd were bigger than Mario.

SEGA put in the hard work and it paid off, Nintendo treated the UK and Europe as an afterthought and they suffered for it.

The N64 got delayed until March 97, missing the big Christmas 96 period and ended up flopping, same for the GameCube arriving late in 2002.

I mention Sega several times in my other posts. It isn’t just about who’s more popular or who sold more consoles. Nintendo completely changed the game with the NES’ business model with game licensing, a model we still use today. Super Mario remains one of the most influential games of all time with design conventions that completely changed platformers. Never mind the classics that were born on the platform that then proceeded to become some of the most influential games ever. Hell, who inspired Sonic or the myriad of mascot platformers that dominated the 80s and 90s?

The most impactful video game system post-crash is bar none the NES, not the PlayStation. The way the current industry functions has a lot more to do with the NES than the PlayStation. PlayStation didn’t change the way things were done. It further popularized video games and also aimed its game at older audiences (that Sega and other devs already did before). It took what was already there and pushed it further.

This is Gaiff in a nutshell

Arcade is another thing I forgot. Thanks.

I know when I talk to Europeans who were kids in the 80s and 90s, a lot of them owned Sega. Apparently, the Mega Drive was bigger in the UK than the SNES? Not sure, but that's what I've heard.

I think North America, Japan/Asia, and Europe covers most of the big game markets.

 

[Team Andromeda]

Yep it made it 'cool" but it didn't improve the gameplay. It didn't even have analogue sticks to start. FMV's look pretty but only add to the spectacle not the substance. And the PC was already doing the same stuff but was obviously much more restrictive than a hot new console in the living room. Wipeout for example had licensed music that got new people to play it, but it was on PC at the same time.

"Nintendo & Sega are kiddie and lame, while Sony is adult and cool" is sadly something it's fans will never grow out of. For the rest of us it was just another console we owned alongside other game playing devices.

Nice points, but like I said 'Licenced' music was being done on systems long before the PS1. We had it on the Amiga, on the Mega-CD and with the PC one saw moves of getting bands to make music in the likes of Inferno and the same for the Mega CD with getting Mr Big frontman to make music for Spiderman , no doubt some PC Engine CD roms did it too and well MJ was going to the music for Sonic 3 at one point on a base Mega Drive.

SEGA was also trying to drop the kiddy image by allowing blood in Mortal Kombat looking to make Enteral Champions on the Mega CD one of the most violent games of all time and even making up a 'Deep Water' label for it, never mind some of the more adult Private TV paper ads, like pissing in the snow . SONY just built on that sort of work and took it too the next level.


People also look over the PS1 came at the time when many people who started gaming with the Atari 2600, Spectrum or NES were becoming adults themselves but were still playing video games (not growing out if it) so the market along with the user, was maturing and growing up.

That is one of the main reasons I was so pissed out with SEGA America and the bullshit from Tom.. Gamers were getting older, starting work and had the disposable income to buy new consoles, not to look to stick with out of date 16 bit systems a cheap shity 32bit add-on.

 

[Gaiff]

Nice points, but like I said 'Licenced' music was being done on systems long before the PS1. We had it on the Amiga, on the Mega-CD and with the PC one saw moves of getting bands to make music in the likes of Inferno and the same for the Mega CD with getting Mr Big frontman to make music for Spiderman , no doubt some PC Engine CD roms did it too and well MJ was going to the music for Sonic 3 at one point on a base Mega Drive.

SEGA was also trying to drop the kiddy image by allowing blood in Mortal Kombat looking to make Enteral Champions on the Mega CD one of the most violent games of all time and even making up a 'Deep Water' label for it, never mind some of the more adult Private TV paper ads, like pissing in the snow . SONY just built on that sort of work and took it too the next level.


People also look over the PS1 came at the time when many people who started gaming with the Atari 2600, Spectrum or NES were becoming adults themselves but were still playing video games (not growing out if it) so the market along with the user, was maturing and growing up.

That is one of the main reasons I was so pissed out with SEGA America and the bullshit from Tom.. Gamers were getting older, starting work and had the disposable income to buy new consoles, not to look to stick with out of date 16 bit systems a cheap shity 32bit add-on.

 

[ZehDon]

Nintendo had the child market on lockdown so Sony went after the teens - and they re-invented the medium. They walked in, kicked Nintendo in the teeth, and have been sitting on top ever since. I may not be terribly keen on their current stuff, but Sony earned their place on the throne.

Are you E?

 

[Madserb2023]

Nintendo had the child market on lockdown so Sony went after the teens - and they re-invented the medium. They walked in, kicked Nintendo in the teeth, and have been sitting on top ever since. I may not be terribly keen on their current stuff, but Sony earned their place on the throne.

Are you E?

While that is true, Sony's problem is that they are still targeting teens as to why they have pivoted so much to GAAS as that is all they play. Problem is teens don't have money so are mainly playing free to play games like fortnight.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

Wait the N64 European launch was in 1997?! Nintendo really didn't give a shit did they...

The mid to late 90s was a continent wide economic boom and Sony took advantage of it.

 

[Hookshot]

SEGA was also trying to drop the kiddy image by allowing blood in Mortal Kombat looking to make Enteral Champions on the Mega CD one of the most violent games of all time.

I remember being really confused when there was some worry from my Parents about me getting a second hand copy of one of the Splatterhouse games on my mega drive. To them it was violent and gory but to me it was just a game like any other. I wasn't aware of the shift in gaming at the time or that ratings were being created I just played whatever I could.

The mortal kombats back then are nothing like how brutal the cinematic versions of the old moves have become so I do agree with ages ratings but back then the low fidelity and sprite work made games seem more like cartoons I guess.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Nice points, but like I said 'Licenced' music was being done on systems long before the PS1. We had it on the Amiga, on the Mega-CD and with the PC one saw moves of getting bands to make music in the likes of Inferno and the same for the Mega CD with getting Mr Big frontman to make music for Spiderman , no doubt some PC Engine CD roms did it too and well MJ was going to the music for Sonic 3 at one point on a base Mega Drive.

SEGA was also trying to drop the kiddy image by allowing blood in Mortal Kombat looking to make Enteral Champions on the Mega CD one of the most violent games of all time and even making up a 'Deep Water' label for it, never mind some of the more adult Private TV paper ads, like pissing in the snow . SONY just built on that sort of work and took it too the next level.


People also look over the PS1 came at the time when many people who started gaming with the Atari 2600, Spectrum or NES were becoming adults themselves but were still playing video games (not growing out if it) so the market along with the user, was maturing and growing up.

That is one of the main reasons I was so pissed out with SEGA America and the bullshit from Tom.. Gamers were getting older, starting work and had the disposable income to buy new consoles, not to look to stick with out of date 16 bit systems a cheap shity 32bit add-on.

I agree with those points, yes SEGA did get the ball rolling (in a much smaller way). I certainly remember the “Cyber Razercut” adverts during the ITV WCW wresting on a Saturday afternoon.

I feel in comparison each company was marketing to different age groups back then…

Nintendo - 8yr olds
SEGA - 13yr olds
PlayStation - 19yr olds

Did SEGA increase the age of its marketing demographic with the Saturn? It’s hard to tell, the only time I saw Saturn TV adverts was via a VHS tape SEGA sent me around Jan 96, the adverts included a NiGHTS: into Dreams one with Japanese voice over with a translator saying that we Brits had some catching up to do.

Meanwhile Sony were absolutely bombarding us with TV adverts, I certainly remember the “shapes”, “double life” and “mental wealth” adverts repeatedly playing in the evenings during Champions League games, movie premieres and Channel 4’s 4Later (probably during Eurotrash). Being a Saturn owner in 1997 this became very annoying

 

[Team Andromeda]

I remember being really confused when there was some worry from my Parents about me getting a second hand copy of one of the Splatterhouse games on my mega drive. To them it was violent and gory but to me it was just a game like any other. I wasn't aware of the shift in gaming at the time or that ratings were being created I just played whatever I could.

The mortal kombats back then are nothing like how brutal the cinematic versions of the old moves have become so I do agree with ages ratings but back then the low fidelity and sprite work made games seem more like cartoons I guess.

Yeah, it's crazy when you look back. I remember a friend of mind needing to show ID when trying to buy Dracula Unleased on the Mega CD in Virgin Megastore LOL. Never mind how in the old days it would be the Japanese stuff that would be uncensored, while the Pal and USA versions would be cut even to the point of taking out cigarettes in games, now that's totally changed

I agree with those points, yes SEGA did get the ball rolling (in a much smaller way). I certainly remember the “Cyber Razercut” adverts during the ITV WCW wresting on a Saturday afternoon.

I feel in comparison each company was marketing to different age groups back then…

Nintendo - 8yr olds
SEGA - 13yr olds
PlayStation - 19yr olds

Did SEGA increase the age of its marketing demographic with the Saturn? It’s hard to tell, the only time I saw Saturn TV adverts was via a VHS tape SEGA sent me around Jan 96, the adverts included a NiGHTS: into Dreams one with Japanese voice over with a translator saying that we Brits had some catching up to do.

Meanwhile Sony were absolutely bombarding us with TV adverts, I certainly remember the “shapes”, “double life” and “mental wealth” adverts repeatedly playing in the evenings during Champions League games, movie premieres and Channel 4’s 4Later (probably during Eurotrash). Being a Saturn owner in 1997 this became very annoying

It wasn't just SEGA I could see a move to more mature gaming with the Amiga and ST too. SEGA were rubbish with the Saturn in Pal land though their launch advert for the Pa Saturn was for more mature than the child-like SAPS ads with SONY for the PS1 launch in Pal land.

It was with the Mega Drive that SEGA Europe really looked to appeal to the older gamer and move the console out of a child toy. Yeah ok Cathy Dennis's gigs with Mega Drive pods can be laughed at now, back in the early 90's it was a move along with looking to get more celebrities seen playing your games, a big push on sporting promotions and far more edgy more mature adverts. I began to see that with grown men talking about how great FIFA was on the Mega Drive: I was amazed to see that in the factory where I started as a service boy, to see men on my line, openly talking of playing Fifa on the MD and how amazing it was.

SONY to their credit built on that and took it to the next level and also expanded the market to women a lot more too. But people really overlook people who were gamers in the 70's and early 80s were becoming adults and having children and getting their children into gaming. So the market was not only growing up but expanding thanks to gamers of the days, brain washing their kids into videogames

 

[Team Andromeda]

Wait the N64 European launch was in 1997?! Nintendo really didn't give a shit did they...

The mid to late 90s was a continent wide economic boom and Sony took advantage of it.

There was no boom in the mid-90s. The UK was suffering one of the worst recessions on record and I don't think things were great in the USA.
Nintendo was going to come latter because the Snes launched 2 years after the Mega Drive and also because there was a delay in the N64 chipset, which is why it always make me laugh when people bring up Tom Kalinske old tosh of hanging on the 16 bit market and how SEGA should have gone with SGI

The N64 was years late, and the N64 chipset was not that great. If only SEGA Japan just sacked Tom and killed Mega Drive support in 1994 and moved on to the Saturn. Things would have been much better and SEGA would have been number 2 in the battle IMO

 

[Lionel Richie]

This thread is a perfect example of why I don't like Snoy's vision for gaming, which granted has been getting worse and worse since TLOU dropped and every game became a TLOU inspired walk 'em up. CTRL+F and you get only one result of someone talking about "gameplay". I like my games to be gameplay focused, so I don't share the excitement for "CD music" and great ads.

 

[Spooky Scary Skeleton]

The PS5 couldn't be more different from the Switch or anything Nintendo. The Dual Sense is nothing like any Nintendo controller. VR is something Nintendo doesn't do. Yup...they are practically twins.

?? Did someone mention ps5? Or are most of people voluntarily having a stroke to purposely forget that Sony tried to delve into handheld market after witnessing how much Nintendo was raking in Benjamin and failed miserably. Twice.

 

[kazuyamishima]

Sony tried to delve into handheld market after witnessing how much Nintendo was raking in Benjamin and failed miserably. Twice

But, did they failed with the PSP?

 

[RetroGamingUK]

The N64 was years late, and the N64 chipset was not that great. If only SEGA Japan just sacked Tom and killed Mega Drive support in 1994 and moved on to the Saturn. Things would have been much better and SEGA would have been number 2 in the battle IMO

SEGA were in a very healthy position in the UK in 1994, they were the most popular gaming brand and their demographics skewed older than Nintendo, while they were no Sony they were in the better position of the two to capitalise on upcoming the 18-30 market with disposable income.

They seemed so confident back then that they were even working on setting up a huge indoor theme park/arcade in London.

You’re right, Sega America’s 32X project did incredible damage to the brand, especially after the MegaCD flop.

Just think what could have been, had the Saturn been a huge success instead of Gran Turismo there could have been a huge driving sim based off Sega Rally and its engine.

Alas, by the time Sega World did open in September 96 (the day kids returned to school no less) the SEGA brand was completely in the toilet.

 

[Team Andromeda]

SEGA were in a very healthy position in the UK in 1994, they were the most popular gaming brand and their demographics skewed older than Nintendo, while they were no Sony they were in the better position of the two to capitalise on upcoming the 18-30 market with disposable income.

They seemed so confident back then that they were even working on setting up a huge indoor theme park/arcade in London.

You’re right, Sega America’s 32X project did incredible damage to the brand, especially after the MegaCD flop.

Just think what could have been, had the Saturn been a huge success instead of Gran Turismo there could have been a huge driving sim based off Sega Rally and its engine.

Alas, by the time Sega World did open in September 96 (the day kids returned to school no less) the SEGA brand was completely in the toilet.

Well Nintendo were bigger and had Billions more in the bank, but SEGA did have that cool and hip image going for it at the time and for me had the teenage male gaming market.

There was no way SEGA would have been able to take on and beat SONY, not when SONY had put $500 million into the PS project, but Nintendo was there for the taking and worst part was in Japan SEGA was able to beat Nintendo with the Saturn, only to see SEGA America and Europe mess it all up with hopeless calls and a silly believe that holding on the a declining 16-bit market was the way to win the 32/64 bit battle A SEGA focused on a single platform, could really have taken it to Nintendo with the mistakes they were making with the N64 .


This is also a true and pathetic story btw.

I remember phoning Emap/Sega Saturn Mag and asking to speak to Richard Leadbetter.... to his credit, he took the call, I then talked and said how upsetting it was Grandia was dropped by SEGA West and how SSM should start a campaign for SEGA West, to change their minds and bring the game over to the west, more so on the back of FF7 hype. Richard Leadbetter said that wouldn't happen as he was told (I guess by SEGA) the rights and translation costs of Gradina on the Saturn stood at $1.5 million and SEGA wouldn't spend that money on a dying market. I ever said and talked about how SEGA could find over $3 million for that Arcade park in London LOL

I even sent a letter to Working Designs in the USA typed out by Mum asking if was there any chance of a chance of heart over SEGA and if they be supporting the DC.
Those were the days

 

[freefornow]

This introduced me to music that i hadnt really been exposed to and became the foundation of my musical tastes for the rest of my life. I am forever greatful.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

?? Did someone mention ps5? Or are most of people voluntarily having a stroke to purposely forget that Sony tried to delve into handheld market after witnessing how much Nintendo was raking in Benjamin and failed miserably. Twice.

PSP sold over 80M units. That’s not “failing miserably “. The console was never considered a failure not even back then. That’s literally why the Vita exists. That one did fail miserably.

 

[cireza]

especially after the MegaCD flop

Mega-CD being a flop is a total stretch, and shit people keep repeating without anything to back it up.

It was definitely aimed at an older audience, with more buying power. It was never supposed to sell as much as the MegaDrive itself.
It was supported 6 years, had a hardware revision, and more than 200 hundred of games. A flop lol.

 

[Team Andromeda]

Mega-CD being a flop is a total stretch, and shit people keep repeating without anything to back it up.

It was definitely aimed at an older audience, with more buying power. It was never supposed to sell as much as the MegaDrive itself.
It was supported 6 years, had a hardware revision, and more than 200 hundred of games. A flop lol.

Well said, You have a look at the marketing SEGA did with the system in the UK and it was clear it was not being pushed for children, but teenagers. I remember my Uncle even fancying the bird seen in the Mean Machines launch video



At the end of the day, the Mega CD was an Add-on that sold in ok numbers around the 3 million mark and was supported for years. the biggest disappointment really was the number of games coming out for each month and how little the extra hardware was used. For me, it was very much like the PS4 VR. Hardly a major flop, but needed more games that used it

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Mega-CD being a flop is a total stretch, and shit people keep repeating without anything to back it up.

It was definitely aimed at an older audience, with more buying power. It was never supposed to sell as much as the MegaDrive itself.
It was supported 6 years, had a hardware revision, and more than 200 hundred of games. A flop lol.

 

[cireza]

Wikipedia is full of errors and incomplete data. This sales number is based on incomplete data.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Wikipedia is full of errors and incomplete data. This sales number is based on incomplete data.

Yeah right, probably doesn’t include the 3 people who bought the Multi-Mega.

Only ever saw one briefly in the window of HMV, admittedly I thought it looked rather slick at the time…

 

[cireza]

Yeah right, probably doesn’t include the 3 people who bought the Multi-Mega.

Only ever saw one briefly in the window of HMV, admittedly I thought it looked rather slick at the time…

When you are out of argument and ignorant, always resort to bad-faith.

Just to show you how dumb the Wikipedia pages can be. I have searched for the reference to their sales numbers, they actually put a link to this document :
link

Page 60 has the sales numbers :

In their very own page they have a link to a source saying 2,765 millions consoles sold in 1994.
So that's already more than what they put in the text of the wikipedia page, which comes from another source (Famitsu) that had incomplete numbers (only Japan + US).

Then this is only until 1994. We don't have the sales numbers for 1995 and 1996. We don't have the sales numbers for the variations of the console. We don't the sales numbers for the rest of the world.

Stop blindly believing what is written in wikipedia RetroGamingUK

As stated by Team Andromeda , it is much more likely to be 3 millions (and more) than the misinformation wikipedia gives us.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

When you are out of argument and ignorant, always resort to bad-faith.

Just to show you how dumb the Wikipedia pages can be. I have searched for the reference to their sales numbers, they actually put a link to this document :
link

Page 60 has the sales numbers :

In their very own page they have a link to a source saying 2,765 millions consoles sold in 1994.
So that's already more than what they put in the text of the wikipedia page, which comes from another source (Famitsu) that had incomplete numbers (only Japan + US).

Then this is only until 1994. We don't have the sales numbers for 1995 and 1996. We don't have the sales numbers for the variations of the console. We don't the sales numbers for the rest of the world.

Stop blindly believing what is written in wikipedia RetroGamingUK

As stated by Team Andromeda , it is much more likely to be 3 millions (and more) than the misinformation wikipedia gives us.

Thinking back I knew about 10 kids who had a MegaDrive and only 1 had a MegaCD (which was for Sonic CD).

Still stand by my opinion that these add-ons were mostly pointless and pissed off a decent amount of SEGA customers.

 

[cireza]

Still stand by my opinion that these add-ons were mostly pointless and pissed off a decent amount of SEGA customers.

Certainly not the Mega-CD. It was awesome, I had a friend that had one, he loved it and I wanted one too but just couldn't afford it. I played at his home. It was also plugged to an audio device, not sure how you call it in English, "home cinema" or whatever. It was glorious.

The setup was actually used by the parents to play music.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

The setup was actually used by the parents to play music.

I think doubling up as CD players certainly helped the PlayStation (and to a much lesser extent, the Saturn) find their way into people’s living rooms.

Saturn was my first ever CD player (though I got a Discman for my birthday the following year).