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Playstation Plus Thread 2: How do I hold all these games?

1

1er tigre

Member
AndyD said:
Here's a solid list for NA that sadly ends in January of this year.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ohAjveInF7jeq0S0wV2MneUxhkS22BFKIuoweeW0trc/edit#gid=0
Click to expand...
Thanks for the link. It kinda proves my point: since the release of the PS4 and the fact that the PS+ is now mandatory to play online it is not as necessary as before to have a convincing offering of games to make people subscribe to the service.
On PS3, 47 retail games and 81 psn games.
On ps4, 1 retail game and 53 psn games.
You can easily see why the amount of retail games decreased: average value per ps3 retail game is 31$ and average value per ps4 psn game is 16$.
In addition, you can see that the average score of the games offered decreased: 82 for a ps3 retail game, 77 for a ps3 psn game and 73 for a ps4 psn game.(toythatkills that's for you)
 
A

AndyD

aka andydumi
1er tigre said:
Thanks for the link. It kinda proves my point: since the release of the PS4 and the fact that the PS+ is now mandatory to play online it is not as necessary as before to have a convincing offering of games to make people subscribe to the service.
On PS3, 47 retail games and 81 psn games.
On ps4, 1 retail game and 53 psn games.
You can easily see why the amount of retail games decreased: average value per ps3 retail game is 31$ and average value per ps4 psn game is 16$.
In addition, you can see that the average score of the games offered decreased: 82 for a ps3 retail game, 77 for a ps3 psn game and 73 for a ps4 psn game.(toythatkills that's for you)
Click to expand...

You have to take any math based on that list it with a grain of salt, because it ends 8 months ago (when the PS4 was barely a year old and the number of "old" retail games for it was very low) and we have gotten a ton more games since that change things significantly. And your numbers are for lifetime of the whole program until 8 months ago.

Maybe for a current PS4 only owner who suddenly threw away a PS3 the value went down on a per month basis, but for a PS3/4 owner the value went up. In other words + is a better value the more devices you own from them. But it's always been this way from day one due to PS3/Vita.

That said I wish I could find the author of the chart (its someone on GFAF) so it can be updated. I tired making a local copy but I don't think the macros carry over.
 
T

toythatkills

Member
1er tigre said:
You can easily see why the amount of retail games decreased: average value per ps3 retail game is 31$ and average value per ps4 psn game is 16$.
In addition, you can see that the average score of the games offered decreased: 82 for a ps3 retail game, 77 for a ps3 psn game and 73 for a ps4 psn game.(toythatkills that's for you)
Click to expand...

I am very confused, where exactly are you seeing that these figures have decreased? As far as I can tell they represent the average values for the entire lifetime of PS+ (until 8 months ago) so there's nothing for them to be decreased from or to.

This is what I mean about you being an unreliable source. Whether it's intentional or not, you're literally making stuff up.
 
R

redcrayon

Member
1er tigre said:
Thanks for the link. It kinda proves my point: since the release of the PS4 and the fact that the PS+ is now mandatory to play online it is not as necessary as before to have a convincing offering of games to make people subscribe to the service.
On PS3, 47 retail games and 81 psn games.
On ps4, 1 retail game and 53 psn games.
You can easily see why the amount of retail games decreased: average value per ps3 retail game is 31$ and average value per ps4 psn game is 16$.
In addition, you can see that the average score of the games offered decreased: 82 for a ps3 retail game, 77 for a ps3 psn game and 73 for a ps4 psn game.(toythatkills that's for you)
Click to expand...
If you buy a PS4 does your PS3 suddenly stop working or something?

You also haven't taken into account the way games are priced online- it's expensive compared to retail in most countries. I'd much rather play a new PSN game that isn't available for a fraction of the price in stores than a four-year-old retail title that I could get for a quarter of the listed online price in the bargain bin of my local shop. A game being £40 on PSN means nothing if you can pick it up for under a tenner on the high street depending on where you live.

This idea that price=quality is just rubbish, as is using metacritic when the outlets they take the numbers from all assign different values to the scores. A 6 from Edge or Eurogamer (back when they issued scores) meant something very different to a 6 from IGN.
 
J

Joni

Member
I'd find any list that includes a sport game 7 months after its release at $60 quite suspect. I can find NBA 2K15 for $25 at Amazon, in a similar timeframe that it lists NBA 2K14 at $60.
 
J

JonnyKong

Member
Finally started playing Sound shapes today. I think it's really great, surprised it's not more popular tbh. Darn tricky at times too.

Edit: holy shit these Beck levels are incredible!

Double edit: Death mode can go swivel!
 
1

1er tigre

Member
toythatkills said:
I am very confused, where exactly are you seeing that these figures have decreased? As far as I can tell they represent the average values for the entire lifetime of PS+ (until 8 months ago) so there's nothing for them to be decreased from or to.

This is what I mean about you being an unreliable source. Whether it's intentional or not, you're literally making stuff up.
Click to expand...
It is pretty clear, both the quality and the value decreased on ps4 compared to the PS3.
 
1

1er tigre

Member
redcrayon said:
If you buy a PS4 does your PS3 suddenly stop working or something?

You also haven't taken into account the way games are priced online- it's expensive compared to retail in most countries. I'd much rather play a new PSN game that isn't available for a fraction of the price in stores than a four-year-old retail title that I could get for a quarter of the listed online price in the bargain bin of my local shop. A game being £40 on PSN means nothing if you can pick it up for under a tenner on the high street depending on where you live.

This idea that price=quality is just rubbish, as is using metacritic when the outlets they take the numbers from all assign different values to the scores. A 6 from Edge or Eurogamer (back when they issued scores) meant something very different to a 6 from IGN.
Click to expand...
Most of the users don't use both PS3 and ps4. For many people, they just get rid of their previous console when buying a new one or at least the new one replace the old one under the tv and they don't bother to play again on the old console.
Regarding the price, the fact is that in the past, the retail games were only one year old and not four.

AndyD said:
You have to take any math based on that list it with a grain of salt, because it ends 8 months ago (when the PS4 was barely a year old and the number of "old" retail games for it was very low) and we have gotten a ton more games since that change things significantly. And your numbers are for lifetime of the whole program until 8 months ago.

Maybe for a current PS4 only owner who suddenly threw away a PS3 the value went down on a per month basis, but for a PS3/4 owner the value went up. In other words + is a better value the more devices you own from them. But it's always been this way from day one due to PS3/Vita.

That said I wish I could find the author of the chart (its someone on GFAF) so it can be updated. I tired making a local copy but I don't think the macros carry over.
Click to expand...
The 8 months didn't change much things since no other retail game have been added to the collection. And with games like entwined, Aaru's awakening and so on, I don't think the average score for ps4 games have improved a lot.
Lastly, since there are no more retail games on ps4, the diversity is lacking. The fact that the offer is slowly decreasing on PS3 is more understandable since a good fraction of games are now next gen only.
 
1

1er tigre

Member
Greddleok said:
Retail is synonymous with "good" right? That's the take home message from this for me.
Click to expand...

No, it means it is different. Should I feel crazy for enjoying having games like demon's souls, bioshock infinite, Batman ac or uncharted 3 on ps+ ?
It used to be the case on PS3 and it's not anymore on ps4. I just find it is a pity.
 
R

redcrayon

Member
1er tigre said:
Most of the users don't use both PS3 and ps4. For many people, they just get rid of their previous console when buying a new one or at least the new one replace the old one under the tv and they don't bother to play again on the old console.
Regarding the price, the fact is that in the past, the retail games were only one year old and not four.
Click to expand...
Citation needed. What data are you using to suggest that 'most' people immediately ditch their PS3? What about PSV? Some people have a combo of portable and old home console and new one too, and obviously get more value from it than people who immediately bin their old consoles when buying a new one.

Regarding price, even if games were only a year old, their high street value in some countries was still significantly less than it was on PSN at the time. In the UK a year is enough for some titles to be down to a third of the RRP. This idea that a year-or-two-old AAA game is worth more because it was once sold at £40 but is now widely available for a tenner, than a new game that released for a tenner that week, seems a bit silly to me.

I think we'll see more AAA stuff appearing on PS4 in the future, and agree a few less quirky platformers wouldn't hurt, but personally I just see them as games regardless of what price they were originally sold at. I've played shitty AAA games for a tenner and shitty indies for a tenner, but with the AAA stuff it's so heavily advertised and visable that I've usually played everything I'm interested in, whereas at least with the digital-only stuff it offers up more surprises than just last years reheated crop of shooters. To each their own though, if the original retail price implies quality to you, fair enough.
 
T

toythatkills

Member
1er tigre said:
It is pretty clear, both the quality and the value decreased on ps4 compared to the PS3.
Click to expand...

You're cherrypicking again!

You can't just look at ten numbers and choose the two which most suit you and then pretend the rest don't exist because they'd harm the point you're trying to make. Surely you know your argument holds no water and that's why you keep doing this?
 
1

1er tigre

Member
toythatkills said:
You're cherrypicking again!

You can't just look at ten numbers and choose the two which most suit you and then pretend the rest don't exist because they'd harm the point you're trying to make. Surely you know your argument holds no water and that's why you keep doing this?
Click to expand...
You gotta be kidding right ? Right ? If the PS4's average score is way below the ps3's average score, how do you think the overall average score will evolve ? Go up or go down ?
When you have answered this basic question (but I'm starting to doubt that you can) you will finally understand that the overall quality of the games have decreased since the release of the PS4.
 
T

toythatkills

Member
1er tigre said:
You gotta be kidding right ? Right ? If the PS4's average score is way below the ps3's average score, how do you think the overall average score will evolve ? Go up or go down ?
When you have answered this basic question (but I'm starting to doubt that you can) you will finally understand that the overall quality of the games have decreased since the release of the PS4.
Click to expand...

You understand what I mean by cherry picking?

You have not included various types of game in your figures. PSone, arcade, etc. you haven't taken into account cross-buy games, basically your figures are wrong because you are continually lazy about them. You're also comparing two entirely different systems with massively different libraries in quality and scope. You're comparing chalk and cheese and coming up with whatever conclusion you feel like based on nothing.

If you want to prove a point you have to work for it. If you don't care to make the effort then you shouldn't keep making the statements you make because you can never back them up.
 
I

ImboSlice

Member
Just finished Lara Croft and the Temple of Osiris. Well, dang! That was surprisingly fun and polished and filled with great ideas. The boss encounter design was very very solid. Great game, happy it was on PS+.
 
1

1er tigre

Member
toythatkills said:
You understand what I mean by cherry picking?

You have not included various types of game in your figures. PSone, arcade, etc. you haven't taken into account cross-buy games, basically your figures are wrong because you are continually lazy about them. You're also comparing two entirely different systems with massively different libraries in quality and scope. You're comparing chalk and cheese and coming up with whatever conclusion you feel like based on nothing.

If you want to prove a point you have to work for it. If you don't care to make the effort then you shouldn't keep making the statements you make because you can never back them up.
Click to expand...
Oh come on man ! Did you even take a look at the file ? Ps4 games have the lowest average score of all except arcade games which count for only 3 games that have been given ages ago before the revamping of the PS+. It means that the PS4 games are lowering the overall average score. The average score has decreased since the release of the PS4. It's a fact. Deal with it. Honestly, I'm done with you. You chose to ignore the facts, good for you.

So, we have less retail games (less diversity) and lower overall average score (less quality) and I can't say that I find the offer weaker than before ? I think it's a bit rough.
 
G

Greddleok

Member
1er tigre said:
No, it means it is different. Should I feel crazy for enjoying having games like demon's souls, bioshock infinite, Batman ac or uncharted 3 on ps+ ?
It used to be the case on PS3 and it's not anymore on ps4. I just find it is a pity.
Click to expand...

You're acting like the games on PS+ are all exactly the same (then putting some random argument in there which is completely irrelevant).

Don't Starve, Rocket League, Binding of Isaac, Styx. They're all massively different from each other. Not even close to being in the same genre. PS+ gives plenty of incredibly good and incredibly different games.

There's nothing wrong with liking bigger games (although seriously Batman and Uncharted 3 are you examples?) but not getting them doesn't detract from the fantastic games and the massive variety we already have.
 
Y

YianGaruga

Banned
1er tigre said:
Less diversity between "big" and "small" games. Don't you agree ?
Click to expand...

I'm going to say the diversity has increased thanks to the inclusion of less AAA retail games. "big" and "small" doesn't mean anything.

You want AAA retail games. You want third person shooters and open world tower climbing games. We get it.
Why not just go out and buy them?
 
J

Jedi2016

Member
1er tigre said:
Ok I get it. I'm wrong. The offer is better than ever. That's why nobody complains every month.
Click to expand...
People who complain are a bunch of whiny little bitches as far as I'm concerned. "Oh no, I didn't get what I want for free!" It's like those ungrateful little shits at birthday parties that pitch a fit when they don't get the presents they wanted.

If people really wanted these games so badly, they'd just go and buy them. Most of them are just a few bucks anyway. But no... that's the game I want, Sony, you need to give it to me for free.

Playstation Plus |OT3|: Knack coming next month!
 
A

AndyD

aka andydumi
YianGaruga said:
I'm going to say the diversity has increased thanks to the inclusion of less AAA retail games. "big" and "small" doesn't mean anything.

You want AAA retail games. You want third person shooters and open world tower climbing games. We get it.
Why not just go out and buy them?
Click to expand...

This. I'd rather have genre diversity than some arbitrary "size" diversity. Getting a full Assassin's Creed and a "small" Assassin's creed is less useful to me than getting two small games across different genres.

Some people want the AAA big games, and only those, even if they are all one third party action game after another, or shooter after shooter. It was like that since the beginning and never will change. And even when we get one, they complain why it wasn't some other one.

Some people with PS4 only may not see the value, but that large amount of gamers with more than one console get a pretty good deal.
 
I

I Wanna Be The Guy

U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!
How hyped are you guys for Green Arrow to wrestle at Summerslam? Amell is gonna kill it.

Please talk about something other than indie retail bullshit.
 
J

JonnyKong

Member
ImboSlice said:
Just finished Lara Croft and the Temple of Osiris. Well, dang! That was surprisingly fun and polished and filled with great ideas. The boss encounter design was very very solid. Great game, happy it was on PS+.
Click to expand...

I think I'm halfway through it, been playing it with my brother in co-op mode which I think helps make it more fun. The voice acting is SO terrible it's hilarious.

Anyway, I don't think we're actually allowed to talk about the ps+ games in this thread it seems. We'll probably be exterminated.
 
T

toythatkills

Member
1er tigre said:
Oh come on man ! Did you even take a look at the file ? Ps4 games have the lowest average score of all except arcade games which count for only 3 games that have been given ages ago before the revamping of the PS+. It means that the PS4 games are lowering the overall average score. The average score has decreased since the release of the PS4. It's a fact. Deal with it. Honestly, I'm done with you. You chose to ignore the facts, good for you.
Click to expand...

Oh God. You're just making me sad now =(

I don't even understand why you're doing this. Your point would be totally true if at the precise moment the PS4 came out there wasn't a single further PS3 game released on Plus, but that is not true. You're trying to say that PS+ is worse now because the PS4 games are critically worse than the PS3 games, but PS3 games are still being released.

How many times? You can't compare the PS4 catalogue to the PS3 catalogue unless you want to do so at similar points in each consoles lifecycle, or the amount of time they've been on Plus. Any other comparison you want to throw at me says nothing at all about how Plus is progressing. You might as well tell me PS+ is shit now because one PS3 game in 2012 has a better Metacritic than Aaru's Awakening. I mean, it's true, but it doesn't prove anything because the comparison is of two totally different things.
 
I

I Wanna Be The Guy

U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!
toythatkills said:
Oh God. You're just making me sad now =(

I don't even understand why you're doing this. Your point would be totally true if at the precise moment the PS4 came out there wasn't a single further PS3 game released on Plus, but that is not true. You're trying to say that PS+ is worse now because the PS4 games are critically worse than the PS3 games, but PS3 games are still being released.

How many times? You can't compare the PS4 catalogue to the PS3 catalogue unless you want to do so at similar points in each consoles lifecycle, or the amount of time they've been on Plus. Any other comparison you want to throw at me says nothing at all about how Plus is progressing. You might as well tell me PS+ is shit now because one PS3 game in 2012 has a better Metacritic than Aaru's Awakening. I mean, it's true, but it doesn't prove anything because the comparison is of two totally different things.
Click to expand...
Absolutely correct. We all know that Aaru's Awakening is great regardless of the metacritic score.
 
R

RK128

Member
I'm surprised that I stopped coming here for a month or two and things didn't change; people complaining about not getting retail games for PS4 and commenting on how interesting indie games aren't 'real games' :l....

I get it; PS3 Plus had retail games more frequently then the PS4 does and it is a shame that is the case for PS4-only owners.....but Plus is for more then PS4 owners, its for PS3 and PS Vita owners as well.

As a PS3 and PS Vita owner, I am happy every month due to always having SOMETHING to play with the service. July was great thanks to Geometry Wars 3, this month is nice with Stealth Inc. 2, and past months was great thanks to some real surprise gems popping up (Kick and Fennick for example).

And when I do get my PS4 this fall.....I will have well over 20-30+ games to play right out of the box thanks to 'buying' the free games when they go live. I can play Dust, the best version of Resogun, First Light, Injustice, Outlast and many, many more once I boot the thing up :D. That is awesome, as I don't have to buy anything for my console the moment I get it and people are complaining about having nothing to play?

Don't mean to sound mean with my statements before but I find the complaining really silly honestly :); we are getting some great games every month to pay to justify the costs of paying for online, which isn't bad at all to me honestly :).
 
1

1er tigre

Member
toythatkills said:
Oh God. You're just making me sad now =(

I don't even understand why you're doing this. Your point would be totally true if at the precise moment the PS4 came out there wasn't a single further PS3 game released on Plus, but that is not true. You're trying to say that PS+ is worse now because the PS4 games are critically worse than the PS3 games, but PS3 games are still being released.
Click to expand...
You would be right if the average score of ps3 games had increased to compensate the lower score of the PS4 games. But it's not the case. So, factually the average score is decreasing. You were asking for proofs, you have them.

toythatkills said:
How many times? You can't compare the PS4 catalogue to the PS3 catalogue unless you want to do so at similar points in each consoles lifecycle, or the amount of time they've been on Plus. Any other comparison you want to throw at me says nothing at all about how Plus is progressing. You might as well tell me PS+ is shit now because one PS3 game in 2012 has a better Metacritic than Aaru's Awakening. I mean, it's true, but it doesn't prove anything because the comparison is of two totally different things.
Click to expand...
What you are saying is that nothing can be compared, at all. It's very convenient.
 
T

toythatkills

Member
1er tigre said:
You would be right if the average score of ps3 games had increased to compensate the lower score of the PS4 games. But it's not the case. So, factually the average score is decreasing. You were asking for proofs, you have them.
Click to expand...

You haven't provided any proof to back that up whatsoever. You just keep saying it over and over again in the hope that by doing so it makes it true.

1er tigre said:
What you are saying is that nothing can be compared, at all. It's very convenient.
Click to expand...

I literally already made valid comparisons. The first year of PS3 on Plus vs. the first year of PS4 on Plus, the amount of retail games provided on PS3 over time not dropping significantly, that kind of thing.

I don't think we're ever going to get anywhere with this because you just don't seem able to understand what "proof" is. If you're ever able to provide it or anything like it to back up your claims, I'll reply to one of your posts. If not, I won't, we're done.
 
A

Anoregon

The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
My PS+ sub expired last week, and I just saw that there are $40 subs on ebay atm. Pretty good timing.
 
N

NullPointer

Member
Been really enjoying Limbo in a die-horribly-every-twenty-seconds kind of way. Never got too far into it on the 360 way back when, so its been nice to revisit it.

Already bought Lara Croft, and I think I prefer Guardian of Light at this point. This new title has more hitches and framerate problems. Nothing unplayable so far mind you, but definitely noticeable as a lack of polish. Still, I'll definitely go back to it from time to time.

Jedi2016 said:
People who complain are a bunch of whiny little bitches as far as I'm concerned. "Oh no, I didn't get what I want for free!"
Click to expand...
The games aren't free, and the IGC games are generally spoken of as the primary value of having PS+ (my anecdotal take from PS+ threads here) so if you're not looking for value there, where are you looking to find it? In the 1GB cloud storage? Service uptime? Stability? Bypassing an arbitrary multiplayer paywall? Discounts on games that hopefully line up with your tastes? We're all going to have opinions.
 
A

AndyD

aka andydumi
As much as it's going to add fire to the discussion, I figured out how to make updates to the spreadsheet since the author abandoned it. So I will work slowly on keeping it alive. I am still testing some things to make sure I break nothing, but I added a new row with Tomb Raider to test the waters and it seems to be working fine.

For those interested I also added a new breakdown by platform on which games are playable at the bottom. Can someone remind me: were all Minis, Arcade and Genesis playable on PS3 only? Or Minis on PSP and Vita as well?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fx1oxuMFjA-t49x1atX1RreUGdc_GZgmHyEuzm99rMQ/edit?usp=sharing
 
illusionary

illusionary

Member
AndyD said:
As much as it's going to add fire to the discussion, I figured out how to make updates to the spreadsheet since the author abandoned it. So I will work slowly on keeping it alive. I am still testing some things to make sure I break nothing, but I added a new row with Tomb Raider to test the waters and it seems to be working fine.

For those interested I also added a new breakdown by platform on which games are playable at the bottom. Can someone remind me: were all Minis, Arcade and Genesis playable on PS3 only? Or Minis on PSP and Vita as well?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fx1oxuMFjA-t49x1atX1RreUGdc_GZgmHyEuzm99rMQ/edit?usp=sharing
Click to expand...

All PS Minis are playable on PSP; many but not all on PS3 and/or PS Vita.

Clearly don't take it as Gospel, but there's a list on Wikipedia with compatibility details as a starting point: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_PlayStation_minis
 
1

1er tigre

Member
toythatkills said:
You haven't provided any proof to back that up whatsoever. You just keep saying it over and over again in the hope that by doing so it makes it true.
Click to expand...
If you can't read an Excel sheet or do basic maths, it's your problem, not mine. The proofs are there, you chose to ignore them. Fine. But don't act like they don't exist.

toythatkills said:
I literally already made valid comparisons. The first year of PS3 on Plus vs. the first year of PS4 on Plus, the amount of retail games provided on PS3 over time not dropping significantly, that kind of thing.

I don't think we're ever going to get anywhere with this because you just don't seem able to understand what "proof" is. If you're ever able to provide it or anything like it to back up your claims, I'll reply to one of your posts. If not, I won't, we're done.
Click to expand...
Mouahaha oh God lol. You ? Bringing proof ?
Oh Thanks. You made my day.
If you want to play the teacher's role, you have to be more rigorous. Can you define "significantly" ? It is pretty vague.which period ? Compared to when ?
Moreover, you seem to completely ignore that the PS+ had a big revamping in 2012. Before that, the service was quite different. It was a time when Sony was testing the market, trying to find a way to have the same revenues as xbox live gold. After a while they realized that it was hard to convince people to pay 50$|€ a year for mini, Genesis and old arcade games and they change the offer significantly.
Comparing the current offer to the offer before mid 2012 is ridiculous, really.
 
T

toythatkills

Member
I think I speak for everyone when I say I'm glad that's over.

We're approaching the second half of the month, surely it's time to start talking about Knack again now?
 
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