I have a question about its original discovery. From the OP images it just looks like another star in the skyscape. I assume the guy had a telecsope that obviously allowed him to see it better but how well was he actually able to see it to be able to define it as something other than a star?
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Pluto New Horizons |OT| New images. Pluto/Charon still geologically active
- Thread starter GK86
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That's not really how it works when finding planets. All the stars are so far away that relative to one another they stay in the same place in they sky. Hence why Orion always looks the same. Planets and comets move position relative to the stars which is how they are discovered.
titiklabingapat
Member
Planets have been known to do a loop-de-loop in the sky for at least a couple hundred years because of the nature of them revolving around the Sun and the Earth's own revolution. After discovering Pluto, it was just a matter of following it and seeing if it does the same loop-de-loop to confirm if it's a planet or not. Someone correct me if I'm wrong though
Planet literally means 'wanderer' in Greek because they seem to wander compared to stars which predictably stay in place. IIRC, this also lead to some people hypothesizing that the earth was not the center of the universe, but rather, the Sun is (the universe meaning just our solar system). Many people in ancient history already knew something was up with planets back then.
Basically. Yep.
To give the loop-de-loop the proper name.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apparent_retrograde_motion
NASA's own website is the best.
Press released images:
http://mars.nasa.gov/msl/multimedia/images/
Every raw image taken from every instrument:
http://mars.nasa.gov/msl/multimedia/raw/
Kind of. There were geocentric models (specifically the Ptolemaic model) that predicted the motion of the planets well. However they were not perfect and were highly complex. They often had to contain spheres inside of spheres inside of spheres all rotating to keep the earth in the center. The Copernican model was so much simpler, and Keppler's eliptical orbits were far more accurate, especially regarding Mars, a planet with an extremely eccentric orbit.
What I find amazing about every one of the probes and rovers we've sent to other planets is this. They run on a few hundred watts...they send back data with radio waves. Radio waves are just another spectrum of light. I mean, they are shining a light bulb at earth and we're fucking picking it up. Goddamn.
Also the ESA website. Images from Rosetta are spectacular.
http://www.esa.int/spaceinimages/Missions/Rosetta
Recent images of Comet 67P:
Rosetta's OSIRIS looking at Pluto just before the New Horizons flyby:
Dragon1893
Member
It's indeed a shame there isn't more public awareness.
Then you have the people who live in denial for some reason and like to pretend the incredible deeds performed by these brilliant human beings never happened.
A couple of days ago a co-worker was saying she doesn't believe we've been to the moon.
I was like "why?" and she says "the footage looks fake as hell" and then her argument was "well, why haven't we gone there again since?" to which I replied that we have and that we don't go more often because it's hard to justify the cost of a manned mission vs sending a probe (among other reasons).
I can't quite figure out what causes people to choose living with this mindset in this day and age. Do they want to be ignorant? Do they just don't care? Does it clash too much with their religious beliefs?
To see this come from a young, educated person really shocked me.
Then you have the people who live in denial for some reason and like to pretend the incredible deeds performed by these brilliant human beings never happened.
A couple of days ago a co-worker was saying she doesn't believe we've been to the moon.
I was like "why?" and she says "the footage looks fake as hell" and then her argument was "well, why haven't we gone there again since?" to which I replied that we have and that we don't go more often because it's hard to justify the cost of a manned mission vs sending a probe (among other reasons).
I can't quite figure out what causes people to choose living with this mindset in this day and age. Do they want to be ignorant? Do they just don't care? Does it clash too much with their religious beliefs?
To see this come from a young, educated person really shocked me.
There's ignorant people.
And then there's intelligent people who are so open minded, their brain falls out.
Rabbi_Vole
Banned
I do wonder if this is some millennial phenomena.. Like they're so far removed, it's easier to believe it didn't happen.
This is all very interesting, but makes me wonder when we will make the discovery that changes the course of the human race.
I think about this on almost a daily occurrence. With our current technology and scientific knowledge, this is about as good as it gets, an unmanned spacecraft traveling ten years to float by a planet gathering data. I wonder, what will be the catalyst that will lead to the jump in advancement as was seen with the introduction of the Internet and computing?
If in 1950 you told a person that in 65 years there would be a handheld device that could access limitless information in your pocket, it would be unbelievable. If in that amount of time we were able to advance computing technology to it's current state, when or what will lead us to the next evolution in medicine, travel, space exploration, etc.?
I feel like there is something and we are close, but perhaps our methods of discovery are too slow, because we cannot yet comprehend the thinking that will lead to the next great discovery.
Sorry to hijack the thread, and I probably sound like I'm rambling, but I just wanted to see if anyone else feels the same. Thanks GAF.
EDIT: if anyone has any info, thoughts or sites to share with me for reading on this sort of topic, it would be appreciated as well.
I think about this on almost a daily occurrence. With our current technology and scientific knowledge, this is about as good as it gets, an unmanned spacecraft traveling ten years to float by a planet gathering data. I wonder, what will be the catalyst that will lead to the jump in advancement as was seen with the introduction of the Internet and computing?
If in 1950 you told a person that in 65 years there would be a handheld device that could access limitless information in your pocket, it would be unbelievable. If in that amount of time we were able to advance computing technology to it's current state, when or what will lead us to the next evolution in medicine, travel, space exploration, etc.?
I feel like there is something and we are close, but perhaps our methods of discovery are too slow, because we cannot yet comprehend the thinking that will lead to the next great discovery.
Sorry to hijack the thread, and I probably sound like I'm rambling, but I just wanted to see if anyone else feels the same. Thanks GAF.
EDIT: if anyone has any info, thoughts or sites to share with me for reading on this sort of topic, it would be appreciated as well.
The breakthrough will come with an exponentially more efficient fuel/propulsion system. Space travel is just too damn slow as is.
It's pretty much stuck because of propulsion methods, we could go faster in terms of speed but not in terms of overall distance due to fuel limitations.
Just like we're stuck with shit batteries and are awaiting the next big thing that will allow us to have fully electric cars (that last longer than fuel-based ones and recharge in less than half a day that is..), weeks-lasting smartphones, etc, so is space travel in terms of ways of reaching distant objects in reasonable time frames.
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
With regards to the discovery that changes the course of human history, that would be finding life elsewhere in our own solar system. If we found life on Europa, that would be a game changer. If we then also found evidence of past life or even current life on Mars also, then that would make life MUCH more probable throughout the galaxy. A lot of human egotism is based on us and the Earth being "special" in that there is life here and here alone, but when life becomes something that is all throughout our solar system, well suddenly life becomes normal and probable, not unique and extraordinary.
No new images today? Looks like the release schedule changed. Pooh.
From yesterday:
This morning:
https://twitter.com/elakdawalla
From yesterday:
This morning:
https://twitter.com/elakdawalla
I personally think that as long as we continue on the path of fuel/propulsion, space travel will never advance. Unless I suppose propulsion could be though of in abstract ways. It sounds hokey, but I believe the only real logical explanation or way to advance in space exploration is through our understanding and eventual manipulation of time.? (this is both a statement and a question, because I have no idea what I am talking about)
Edit: I have no delusions or doubt, we are not alone. Perhaps though we have already encountered life, but it is totally unrecognizable, or indistinguishable to our limited thinking or comprehension.
Edit: I have no delusions or doubt, we are not alone. Perhaps though we have already encountered life, but it is totally unrecognizable, or indistinguishable to our limited thinking or comprehension.
E-Cat
Member
Where's the Jupiter gravity assist? I thought it was supposed to cut off like 4 years.A little off topic. This is from the Rosetta probe:
It's cool to see a flightpath visualized like that. I wonder how fast you could move through space just using gravity assists.
That graphic is of the Rosetta probe, which didn't use a Jupiter assist (3x Earth + 1 Mars). You can see Jupiter moving to the opposite side of the sun when Rosetta approaches its orbit. Confusing it with New Horizons?
It's nothing new. Just scepticism gone too far.
What we need are cheaper ways to get stuff in orbit. Reusable launch systems are clearly the way forward. My favorite is the British Skylon, which is coming along nicely.
Skylon is a spaceplane - it can go straight to orbit from a runway, has no expendable parts and can lift stuff to orbit every 2-3 days.
When we have something like Skylon, in maybe 10 years, then space tourism takes off and other types of private ventures start making sense, such as asteroid retrieval and mining.
We will build a permanent base on Moon and place an effective interplanetary launch system there (like a hyperloop) and use it to support operations elsewhere, such as the colony on Mars.
There's also the possibility that some exotic propellentless propulsion system pans out, such as the EM drive. Then we could go anywhere and do anything within the Solar System.
In any case, I expect there will be significant advancements in power sources for ion propulsion in the near future, or somebody will develop a fusion engine for direct propulsion. Such technologies would enable fast travel between planets.
I expect all of the above to happen by 2030.
Chiaroscuro
Member
Erasing the alien cities from the pictures takes time.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Damn, do Pluto and its moon have a sinister naming convention going on. If we find life, it's going to be there, and they're going to be like the fucking Vorcha from Mass Effect.
Well, that did start with Pluto itself, so it's probably better to keep with the spirit
Pandora012
Member
That'd pretty cool.
Since space travel is very expensive, I think the space age will kick off once a reliable way is found to monetize space travel (tourism, collecting resources). If you can make money from going to space there will be lots of companies looking to do it as cheap, quick and efficient as possible in order to cut costs more etc. Which means advancements in technology. Right now it seems space travel is too expensive and too risky. That's why there are so few companies outside of governments attempting it.
There is some promising stuff on the horizon however. If you've not heard of these before it might be the kind of things you'd be interested in. They won't enable "amazing" or "great" discoveries in and of themselves but they indicate that the "space exploration" ball is slowly rolling towards a tipping point, I feel, to where it gets to a whole new level and scale.
The ESA is looking to build a base on the moon. I don't think there is a time window of when they're going to try this though.
I read somewhere that China also wants to establish a lunar base (around 2050), and wants to mine for helium 3 there. This could be a very big deal. If it can be done cost effectively. Can't find a good source for this right now.
There is also the NASA Asteroid Redirect Mission. Where they plan to grab a multi-ton boulder from an asteroid and bring it into orbit around the moon. Then they will send astronauts to take sample from it. This could also set a precedent and be valuable steps for possible asteroid mining operations. This is set for somewhere in the 2020s
Then there's the manned mission to mars. Planned for the 2030s.
A manned base on the moon or people on mars might not seem as mind blowing as a super computer in your pocket, since a computer is more practical to the individual and tangible. But I think it is pretty amazing that we seem to be heading towards this direction. The technology required to establish a sustainable base on the moon would be pretty cool too I think.
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
My Dad is almost 80 and thought we'd be on Mars by the time he was 50. Now he won't live to see it. Cell phones aren't that impressive to him when he watched the moon landing and thought progress would be limitless. A personal portable communicator is probably the last thing from Star Trek he cared to see happen in his lifetime.
The only thing that will change the direction of human history would be the ability to reliably transfer resources between planets at a fast rate for a profit. Few mere revelations are enough to overcome human nature. If they were, we've had a million amazing discoveries that should inform and influence everyone's view of the world and each other, but instead it's something maybe 1% of the population thinks of more than once a week. Finding space squid on Europa is going to be a twitter sensation and may cause the inspiration necessary for kids to want to grow up to be astronauts again, and might cause a week or two of theological shenanigans before a way to explain it away is found and it's back to business as usual at least for the Abrahamic religions, but the immediate effects aren't going to be putting food on tables.
Don't misunderstand, I'm not one of those people who thinks we shouldn't spend money on space exploration when we have problems down here, but the majority of the world doesn't understand how much NASA has done for technological advancement. Hell, most people think NASA gets like 10% of their taxes instead of, what, 0.1%?
We are so far behind on space travel
Maybe we need a new cold war to get shit started again!
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
We are so far behind on space travel
Maybe we need a new cold war to get shit started again!
Lol I mean yeah, there are worse alternatives, but still I feel especially bad for my Dad.
Herb Alpert
Banned
Conspiracy theory is now mainstream. Everybody is like "hey, I'm not dumb like everyone, government won't fool me".
Your co-worker said that it looked fake as hell, probably because some internet sites said so. Instead of believing official history (which can be sometime deceptive indeed), she chose to believe underground History. Which in the end is kinda samey.
I consider these achievements (landing on the moon, exploration of the solar system) to be the most important and wonderful successes of Humanity.
I pity people believing that all of this is a lie.
The idea that the moon landing was faked, but the only people who know are these random conspiracy nuts is so hilarious. They never seem to consider that the USSR with its huge spy network and superpower resources, in the middle of a Cold War with the USA and would have benefited immensely from embarrassing the US by exposing such a hoax, could not find anything to indicate it was not real, and conceded they did go to the Moon. Or that the USSR and many other countries picked up the radio signals from the mission as it happened.
But yeah, "there's no stars!", "the flag is waving!" like the USA are apparently so haphazard and lazy in their national hoax watched by 600 million people, including their Cold War enemy that would have leaped at the chance to disprove it, that they couldn't be bothered to paint stars on a backdrop, or something.
As someone who has done a significant amount of astronomy outreach for over a decade, I can tell you that it's mostly "they just don't care". I'm always a little surprised at how many people aren't interested in looking through a telescope. That said, sometimes they just need a little bit of prodding and the right kind of exposure to get them interested.
One of my favourite examples of this was a time when I was helping out at an event in a campground. Our club (the RASC) brought out a few people and their telescopes to show people nebulae, planets, galaxies, etc. As is very typical, everyone wants to bring their kids out. I find this to be partly awesome, but also partly disappointing, because it implies that this is "something for the kids". And while I do love the reactions I get from kids looking at celestial bodies for the first time ... they're kids. They're filled with wonder and excitement about everything. They see Saturn and say: "Oh, wow! That's so cool!" and then they'll see a train go by and say: "Oh, wow! That's so cool!"
Anyway, a father had his two kids out, both maybe around the age of 10-12. I was showing them the globular cluster M13. The kids were amazed that they could resolve the little stars in the cluster so easily. They asked all sorts of great questions and then thanked me. Then the dad gave me a big thanks and they started to walk off. I was like: "... hey, did you want to have a look?" ... he kind of shrugged his shoulders and said: "Yeah, sure ... why not." ... he put his eye up to the eyepiece and let out a quiet, but audible holy shit. Following this, he asked a bunch of questions and then went back to look through all the telescopes that only his kids had looked through up until that point.
My Teacher didn't think the moon landing was real, He didn't believe in God or politics and got carried away with the whole 'everyone is lying to you' bit. I convinced him and one other guy who didn't buy it by addressing their questions since I had already looked at those moon consipracy myths before.
It really does! Why I didn't made that connection.
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
Hey now, when I see a globular cluster or a train I still say "that's so cool"
Who said that being filled with wonder and excitement about everything was bad?
Parallax Scroll
Banned
I'm continually surprised with how little most people know or care about space. I've spoken to college educated adults who are surprised to hear that other planets besides the earth also have moons. That seems crazy to me that someone could not know that. I learned about the solar system's moons in public elementary school. These people are the same age or younger than me, were they just not paying attention? Then I remember that most people just don't care.
Dragon1893
Member
Parallax Scroll
Banned
I should look in more telescopes. I think the only things I've ever looked at are Jupiter and Saturn.
You wont see any planets beyond that with any normal home telescope, just so you know.
Not in any detail at least.
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
I sent a picture of Pluto to everyone in the office the other day. The only response I got was one person asking me if this was a picture of the Moon. I think only one other person even knew this mission was taking place. I'm not making fun of people for being dumb or something, they just didn't know because most people really just don't care.
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