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Pokémon Community Thread 3: "Soon, All of Hoenn Will Be Under Its Withering Glare…"

A

Atsumi

Member
DaBoss said:
Only under 2 months till X/Y release. Time flies by.
Someone needs to make a countdown thing.
Click to expand...

I have to attend a wedding in a different state the day it comes out. I'm debating on whether I should preorder at the nearest Game Stop, or just wing it and hope the game is in stock.
 
S

Seibmoz

Member
Firestorm said:
I'd just wait until XY to be honest unless you're looking to enter a tournament this fall or something. No use burning yourself out on Pokemon before the big release!
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I'm was just want to make sure I can trade up my pokemon from soulsliver/Platinum to x/y and I'm assuming that have to use a copy of black/white to do that. Have they talked about how transferring/trading old pokemon will work to X/Y?

I have to make sure my Arcanine from FireRed makes it into X/Y :)
 
F

Firestorm

Member
Seibmoz said:
I'm was just want to make sure I can trade up my pokemon from soulsliver/Platinum to x/y and I'm assuming that have to use a copy of black/white to do that. Have they talked about how transferring/trading old pokemon will work to X/Y?

I have to make sure my Arcanine from FireRed makes it into X/Y :)
Click to expand...
We don't even know if Pokemon will be trasferrable let alone how!
 
C

ColtraineGF

Member
Firestorm said:
We don't even know if Pokemon will be trasferrable let alone how!
Click to expand...
I think they will... at least, I hope so. Otherwise, why even bother doing a GameStop distribution of shiny Gen 4 legendaries so soon to launch if you couldn't even transfer them forward?

Mega Palkia, Mega Dialga, Mega Giratina
 
J

JoeM86

Member
So, they had a stronger hack check in the Global Showdown, testing their new system. They disqualified almost 2,000 players for using hacks.
9% of Masters players, 13% of Seniors and 9% of Juniors were disqualified. These were just the ones detectable, too... If they manage to track RNG manipulation, then the number would be much higher (though I don't want to get into the argument of whether or not RNG manipulation is cheating or not)
 
Cute Dragon Here

Cute Dragon Here

Member
JoeM86 said:
So, they had a stronger hack check in the Global Showdown, testing their new system. They disqualified almost 2,000 players for using hacks.
9% of Masters players, 13% of Seniors and 9% of Juniors were disqualified. These were just the ones detectable, too... If they manage to track RNG manipulation, then the number would be much higher (though I don't want to get into the argument of whether or not RNG manipulation is cheating or not)
Click to expand...

Hmm...

Speaking of hack checks, I wonder how strong it is now...
 
J

JoeM86

Member
Noivern said:
Hmm...

Speaking of hack checks, I wonder how strong it is now...
Click to expand...

Hopefully it just gets stronger.

One of the reasons I don't participate in anything competitive based is because of the sheer abundance of hacks and RNG abused Pokémon. It deviates from the entire point and ethos of Pokémon.

Yes, I know people are going to respond saying "It's the only way to get perfect Pokémon", but people forget that we're not meant to have perfect Pokémon.

If we were to want a "perfect" Pokémon off the bat, it's a 1 in 1,073,741,824 chance and that's not even including natures, abilities or shiny. Yet people all have "perfect" Pokémon with their perfect nature and usually shiny.

I know full well that if they could track it, they'd have banned RNG manipulation. Hell, TPC reps have been saying it's against the ethos of the game. They just can't track it so they can't ban it.

Can't wait for X & Y to come for this reason alone, but I know people are going to ruin it. Hopefully, they include the accelerometer or other features into the generator to make it near impossible to duplicate with a seed programme to manipulate
 
B

Bulbasaur

Banned
JoeM86 said:
So, they had a stronger hack check in the Global Showdown, testing their new system. They disqualified almost 2,000 players for using hacks.
9% of Masters players, 13% of Seniors and 9% of Juniors were disqualified. These were just the ones detectable, too... If they manage to track RNG manipulation, then the number would be much higher (though I don't want to get into the argument of whether or not RNG manipulation is cheating or not)
Click to expand...

I went in a comp once and got my ass handed to me in the second round by a high school kid and his Whimsicott. There were no checks or anything. As you just said theres a high amount of people using hacks or whatever. I never really considered it a possibility, I thought all hacks had chinese characters for names or something but I now feel better about losing. Whatever helps you sleep at night.
 
F

Firestorm

Member
JoeM86 said:
Hopefully it just gets stronger.

One of the reasons I don't participate in anything competitive based is because of the sheer abundance of hacks and RNG abused Pokémon. It deviates from the entire point and ethos of Pokémon.
Click to expand...
Nope but if you think Pokemon is all about being inherently better than others from birth and having no amount of work change that, then go on ahead.

PS: If you don't want to get into an argument, don't say stupid shit.
Boss Doggie said:
Better video of the 2vs2 battle

It's so fast that it makes me believe that the lagging/freezing issues are only found in the demo.
Click to expand...
Woah, that's awesome quality.
 
J

JoeM86

Member
Firestorm said:
Nope but if you think Pokemon is all about being inherently better than others from birth and having no amount of work change that, then go on ahead.

PS: If you don't want to get into an argument, don't say stupid shit.
Click to expand...

It's not "stupid shit". It's true. Just because you feel RNG manipulation is justified does not make it so.
 
F

Firestorm

Member
JoeM86 said:
It's not "stupid shit". It's true. Just because you feel RNG manipulation is justified does not make it so.
Click to expand...
Just because you think it's cheating doesn't make it so either. Now, if you didn't want an argument, why did you add "If they manage to track RNG manipulation, then the number would be much higher" to the end of your post?
 
J

JoeM86

Member
Firestorm said:
Just because you think it's cheating doesn't make it so either. Now, if you didn't want an argument, why did you add "If they manage to track RNG manipulation, then the number would be much higher" to the end of your post?
Click to expand...

You're right. Manipulating a game beyond the intent of the developers really isn't cheating. Them saying it's against the ethos of the game means it isn't cheating. Them putting in attempts to block it in B2W2 means it isn't cheating.
 
F

Firestorm

Member
JoeM86 said:
You're right. Manipulating a game beyond the intent of the developers really isn't cheating. Them saying it's against the ethos of the game means it isn't cheating. Them putting in attempts to block it in B2W2 means it isn't cheating.
Click to expand...
You quite clearly don't know what the word cheating means. Saying "them" without names also doesn't help your argument any.
 
Boss Doggie

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
This looks like it needs some captions

1377068890486tmjnr.gif
 
J

JoeM86

Member
Firestorm said:
You quite clearly don't know what the word cheating means. Saying "them" without names also doesn't help your argument any.
Click to expand...

Them is clearly The Pokémon Company and GameFreak. Now you're just clutching at straws to try and dismiss my argument.

Cheating refers to an immoral way of achieving a goal, such as cheating on an exam. It is generally used for the breaking of rules to gain unfair advantage in a competitive situation.
Click to expand...

Yep, seems like cheating to me.
 
A

Anura

Member
JoeM86 said:
You're right. Manipulating a game beyond the intent of the developers really isn't cheating. Them saying it's against the ethos of the game means it isn't cheating. Them putting in attempts to block it in B2W2 means it isn't cheating.
Click to expand...

Now we're getting into the whole "developers intent" argument and that's a zone we simply don't know what they are thinking especially considering a vast amount of people work on the game

Sorry but in games of competition the fields should be equal
if I get your queen into a spot where my rook can take her but can't because she has better defense stats or whatnot that's just dumb

Things like critical hits already do a number in that department

Raising pokemon and battling pokemon are two different things that might get two different crowds
 
F

Firestorm

Member
JoeM86 said:
Them is clearly The Pokémon Company and GameFreak. Now you're just clutching at straws to try and dismiss my argument.
Click to expand...
Those aren't people. Those are company names. If you can quote me what an actual person who has something to do with the game said, I'd love to hear that. If you want, PM me. Because the information I have on it is different.

Playing something in a way that developer did not intend is not cheating. You're whining because you find it "immoral." This immorality is based on nothing but whatever the hell you feel like doing.

Personally, I think the biggest positive that RNGing has brought (aside from decreasing the amount of people using external devices to create Pokemon for official competitions) is the rise of dedicated Pokemon breeders / trainers. I've found a lot of testing teams have the person who might not be as amazing at Pokemon battling (though I've found most of them are still great battlers) but specialize in Pokemon breeding. They know their way around the RNG. They know the breeding chains and move tutors. They do what Brock wishes he could!

Overall, I hope that the need for RNG manipulation will not be required in Generation 6. By that, I mean I hope they remove IVs and other unnecessary barriers to entry for newer players that adds no depth to the game. I believe in a more inclusive game and that's something this doesn't do -- even if it does give another niche for players to excel at, I think there can be other ways of doing that. I've always found that train of thought a bit disgusting.

As for currently? People who oppose the RNG seem to do so for selfish reasons -- because they found a shiny or something else and want to feel special and have something that nobody else does.
 
J

JoeM86

Member
Firestorm said:
Those aren't people. Those are company names. If you can quote me what an actual person who has something to do with the game said, I'd love to hear that. If you want, PM me. Because the information I have on it is different.

Playing something in a way that developer did not intend is not cheating. You're whining because you find it "immoral." This immorality is based on nothing but whatever the hell you feel like doing.

Personally, I think the biggest positive that RNGing has brought (aside from decreasing the amount of people using external devices to create Pokemon for official competitions) is the rise of dedicated Pokemon breeders / trainers. I've found a lot of testing teams have the person who might not be as amazing at Pokemon battling (though I've found most of them are still great battlers) but specialize in Pokemon breeding. They know their way around the RNG. They know the breeding chains and move tutors. They do what Brock wishes he could!

Overall, I hope that the need for RNG manipulation will not be required in Generation 6. By that, I mean I hope they remove IVs and other unnecessary barriers to entry for newer players that adds no depth to the game. I believe in a more inclusive game and that's something this doesn't do -- even if it does give another niche for players to excel at, I think there can be other ways of doing that. I've always found that train of thought a bit disgusting.

As for currently? People who oppose the RNG seem to do so for selfish reasons -- because they found a shiny or something else and want to feel special and have something that nobody else does.
Click to expand...

Please provide said information. Everyone I've spoken to has said it's wrong to do so. They put that weird block into the generation with n breeding in B2W2 to try and prevent it. It was not a glitch like people seem to think.

I too hope that it becomes un-necessary because it IS cheating. What I want them to do isn't remove IVs, because they promote genetic diversity and without that, every single Pokémon of the same species would be identical and that's ridiculous, but rather have a function that prevents the generation of perfect Pokémon. Make it so the IVs are still 0-31, but have it so the IVs can never add up to a value more than say 160.

I want rid of RNG manipulation because I want an even playingfield for all players. Everyone with the same chance of having Pokémon of certain strengths, manipulatable through natural selection in breeding.
 
Soodanim

Soodanim

Gold Member
Removing IVs would level the playing field so much, and I'd love it. With TMs and now EVs sorted, it's one of the last barriers of balance for competitive play.

Do we know more about mega evolutions yet? I'm planning on buying a 3DS XL (black, of course) with Pokemon X/Y, but my only real reason for jumping in day one is mega Blaziken. If there's some sort of negative point to it that makes it not really with doing, then I'll wait for a price drop or deal to pop up.
 
J

JoeM86

Member
SixFourMike said:
Removing IVs would level the playing field so much, and I'd love it. With TMs and now EVs sorted, it's one of the last barriers of balance for competitive play.

Do we know more about mega evolutions yet? I'm planning on buying a 3DS XL (black, of course) with Pokemon X/Y, but my only real reason for jumping in day one is mega Blaziken. If there's some sort of negative point to it that makes it not really with doing, then I'll wait for a price drop or deal to pop up.
Click to expand...

You can only have one Mega Evolution in your team. You have to have the Mega Stone for that Pokémon attached in order to Mega Evolve
 
F

Firestorm

Member
JoeM86 said:
Please provide said information. Everyone I've spoken to has said it's wrong to do so. They put that weird block into the generation with n breeding in B2W2 to try and prevent it. It was not a glitch like people seem to think.

I too hope that it becomes un-necessary because it IS cheating. What I want them to do isn't remove IVs, because they promote genetic diversity and without that, every single Pokémon of the same species would be identical and that's ridiculous, but rather have a function that prevents the generation of perfect Pokémon. Make it so the IVs are still 0-31, but have it so the IVs can never add up to a value more than say 160.

I want rid of RNG manipulation because I want an even playingfield for all players. Everyone with the same chance of having Pokémon of certain strengths, manipulatable through natural selection in breeding.
Click to expand...
I'm not an expert with RNG manipulation, but what they did was increase the number of possible seeds in BW2 making it much more time consuming than in BW (which was far easier than in 4th gen games due to how long you had to hit your seed).

In any case, I'm astounded at how short-sighted you are. There are ways of promoting diversity in Pokemon without neutering them for combat or saying that "this Pokemon is useless straight from birth so you should throw it away and create another one." Are you saying that's the ethos of Pokemon? Because that's pretty fucked up.

Also do you have a source on Mega Evolutions being 1 per team? Would love to see it because I've seen it quoted more than once but never seen a source.
 
J

JoeM86

Member
Firestorm said:
I'm not an expert with RNG manipulation, but what they did was increase the number of possible seeds in BW2 making it much more time consuming than in BW (which was far easier than in 4th gen games due to how long you had to hit your seed).

In any case, I'm astounded at how short-sighted you are. There are ways of promoting diversity in Pokemon without neutering them for combat or saying that "this Pokemon is useless straight from birth so you should throw it away and create another one." Are you saying that's the ethos of Pokemon? Because that's pretty fucked up.

Also do you have a source on Mega Evolutions being 1 per team? Would love to see it because I've seen it quoted more than once but never seen a source.
Click to expand...

They also have that weird thing with breeding where it essentially has a static variant for the first egg you receive when you load the game. Though I haven't kept up so I don't know if people have found a way around that yet.

It's not short-sighted, I'm just looking at the bigger picture. What you're wanting would make every single Pokémon identical which would kill the game. My idea of preventing perfect Pokémon is the best way to go about this.

The Mega Evolution bit comes from the official Japanese site. However, it is still up to interpretation a little. The statement is somewhat vague in that it says it is either one per team, or one per overall battle
 
F

Firestorm

Member
JoeM86 said:
They also have that weird thing with breeding where it essentially has a static variant for the first egg you receive when you load the game. Though I haven't kept up so I don't know if people have found a way around that yet.

It's not short-sighted, I'm just looking at the bigger picture. What you're wanting would make every single Pokémon identical which would kill the game. My idea of preventing perfect Pokémon is the best way to go about this.
Click to expand...
"would kill the game" is the most overdramatic thing I've heard you say yet. That's ridiculous and you know it. It would do absolutely nothing to the game aside from lowering another barrier to entry for multiplayer. Players can have other customization options available that doesn't affect battles (ie. nicknames, accessories becoming visible could be cool now that they have trainer customization, stuff like spinda spots). Those are far more noticeable than small stat changes that casual players likely don't even know about.

The fact that you need some unique stats to have sentimental value for your Pokemon is also bullshit. My Slowking for example has perfect stats just like probably every other Slowking (31/x/31/31/31/0). Doesn't mean I don't friggin' love the guy as I've been using him for almost two full seasons now.

The Mega Evolution bit comes from the official Japanese site. However, it is still up to interpretation a little. The statement is somewhat vague in that it says it is either one per team, or one per overall battle
Click to expand...
Could you link to it please?

Edit: never mind, found it
 
Cute Dragon Here

Cute Dragon Here

Member
Speaking of the strong hack-checking in the last competition, I'd assume that the banned players were for Pokémon that were generated outside of the game, and hence have improper values in certain stuff, right?
 
J

JoeM86

Member
Firestorm said:
"would kill the game" is the most overdramatic thing I've heard you say yet. That's ridiculous and you know it. It would do absolutely nothing to the game aside from lowering another barrier to entry for multiplayer. Players can have other customization options available that doesn't affect battles (ie. nicknames, accessories becoming visible could be cool now that they have trainer customization, stuff like spinda spots). Those are far more noticeable than small stat changes that casual players likely don't even know about.

The fact that you need some unique stats to have sentimental value for your Pokemon is also bullshit. My Slowking for example has perfect stats just like probably every other Slowking (31/x/31/31/31/0). Doesn't mean I don't friggin' love the guy as I've been using him for almost two full seasons now.
Click to expand...

We're clearly not going to agree here.

Look at it like sports. You have say 10 runners in the competition. By your logic, the competition is only fair if the runners are essentially clones of eachother with the exact same training regime, but that's not how it works. You have runners of different heights, builds, mass, weight distribution, muscle tone etc. Does this make it unfair? No.

I think we should end this as we're just going to keep going in circles and clearly not agree. Let's just wait and see how they deal with things with XY.

Noivern said:
Speaking of the strong hack-checking in the last competition, I'd assume that the banned players were for Pokémon that were generated outside of the game, and hence have improper values in certain stuff, right?
Click to expand...

We're not sure. They have to get through the checks to even be registered first, so it must be stuff like PID, illegal movesets etc.
 
F

Firestorm

Member
JoeM86 said:
We're clearly not going to agree here.

Look at it like sports. You have say 10 runners in the competition. By your logic, the competition is only fair if the runners are essentially clones of eachother with the exact same training regime, but that's not how it works. You have runners of different heights, builds, mass, weight distribution, muscle tone etc. Does this make it unfair? No.

I think we should end this as we're just going to keep going in circles and clearly not agree. Let's just wait and see how they deal with things with XY.
Click to expand...
This is a video game. Not real life. Not to mention that Pokemon already have different characteristics and the training regiment (EVs) is not something I think should be the same. I'm saying instead of having to tell a hundred people that they're too slow to represent their country in the Olympics, I want to just train the one that's fast enough and not do the tryouts. That's unneeded effort in a video game with zero impact on the actual battle.

Noivern said:
Speaking of the strong hack-checking in the last competition, I'd assume that the banned players were for Pokémon that were generated outside of the game, and hence have improper values in certain stuff, right?
Click to expand...
Well, yes. If they weren't created with an external device they'd be legitimate after all. There's a lot that fanmade hack checks do that Pokemon still doesn't so what this might mean is that Pokemon improved their hack check a little bit to catch more things that they didn't used to.
 
Cute Dragon Here

Cute Dragon Here

Member
JoeM86 said:
We're not sure. They have to get through the checks to even be registered first, so it must be stuff like PID, illegal movesets etc.
Click to expand...

So, subtle to people and yet obviously wrong to a computer stuff when you think about it. I guess they probably thought that they could get away with things like that - things that don't seem to be obvious to a casual observer.

These Pokémon probably would cause any private battle battle video to be unuploadable, right?
 
J

JoeM86

Member
Firestorm said:
This is a video game. Not real life. Not to mention that Pokemon already have different characteristics and the training regiment (EVs) is not something I think should be the same. I'm saying instead of having to tell a hundred people that they're too slow to represent their country in the Olympics, I want to just train the one that's fast enough and not do the tryouts. That's unneeded effort in a video game with zero impact on the actual battle.
Click to expand...

It's not just training though when it comes to sports. It's natural talent brought on by their genetics, which have then been honed by training. It's EXACTLY the same as the situation in Pokémon.

Noivern said:
So, subtle to people and yet obviously wrong to a computer stuff when you think about it. I guess they probably thought that they could get away with things like that - things that don't seem to be obvious to a casual observer.

These Pokémon probably would cause any private battle battle video to be unuploadable, right?
Click to expand...

Not quite. Those Pokémon will be listed as being unable to be registered in the first place. The checks that went on through this went even deeper.
 
F

Firestorm

Member
JoeM86 said:
It's not just training though when it comes to sports. It's natural talent brought on by their genetics, which have then been honed by training. It's EXACTLY the same as the situation in Pokémon.
Click to expand...
And why the hell would I want to deal with that in Pokemon?
 
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