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Pokémon Community Thread 3: "Soon, All of Hoenn Will Be Under Its Withering Glare "
- Thread starter UltimateIke
- Start date
What difference does that make? I keep seeing this get repeated, yet notice every time that it fails to actually provide reasoning as to why the games shouldn't be remade again if it's needed.
It's like the "but you can get all the pokemon already!" logic used against RSE remakes before they were announced. Who cares?
Stardust_Comet
Neo Member
Don't see why that'd stop GameFreak. They get to push out another two games in order to get more cash out of us, and not have to come up with anything creative. Sounds like a win win situation for them.
Although, I am hoping that when the re-remake of gen 1 comes out, instead of making another FireRed and GreenLeaf, they'll do a remake of Yellow. Likewise with Crystal for gen 2, and Emerald with gen 3. It'd even explain what they're going to do with the BW and BW2 issue when it comes around for gen 5 to get a remake. They'll just do BW first, then when the next time comes to remake it, it'll be BW2's turn for it.
Stardust_Comet
Neo Member
It would really depend on how much time they're putting in between remakes.
So far, all the games they've remade had been at over ten years of being out of production. Ten years is also a lot of time to gain new fans who have never played these games before so for them, it's still considered brand new.
There is also the fact that there's enough nostalgic fanboys out there who'll pay through the nose to relive the "glory" days of pokemon as it were.
As long as they're being smart with how much time is acceptable to wait until remakes come out, then GameFreak really isn't likely to gain a loss here when you add up the willing buyers of nostaglic fanboys and new fans who weren't even old enough to play those games before.
Why would you think this? It's a fantastic way to bring tons of fans back into the fold, and has been employed with every game this generation from XY's callbacks to earlier generations, to ORAS obviously being a complete remake of earlier games. So how would another Gen I remake be the straw that broke the camel's back when we've already had countless callbacks and remakes before it, especially since it's still the most popular set of games in the series?
Anyways, they've been going back to the Gen I watering hole since... well... Gen II inclusion of Kanto. Call it a hunch, but I have a feeling that Gamefreak wouldn't keep doing it if it wasn't working.
I think straight remakes of games that already had remakes would push the edge of what is acceptable by the community, especially if it came out this generation. However, it could be interesting if they did revisit Kanto (and Johto) in a new game that wasn't just Red's adventures again. They can reuse the regions and Pokemon while giving us something new. But of course they wouldn't do that.
I think Kalos having such a strong Kanto Pokemon presence is exactly what diminishes the chance of retreading it again.
The Pokemon are so commonplace, and the story has already been revisited not only in games, but also the Pokemon Origins special just last year.
I really cannot see another Kanto trip being successful.
The Pokemon are so commonplace, and the story has already been revisited not only in games, but also the Pokemon Origins special just last year.
I really cannot see another Kanto trip being successful.
Now i'm really looking forward to the demo! Or hope they arent horrible enough not to give NA one.
I don't know.
No one suspected mainline games would ever get sequels either but look what happened.
Bingo
No offense, but they would almost certainly be more successful than the Hoenn remakes are going to be sales-wise unless they stuck them with some "exclusive to new 3DS" requirement. Not knocking Ruby/Sapphire or any of the other games, but RGBY are behemoths compared to what came afterwards in terms of the general public's interest. If anything, they're the one generation that has been shown to most reliably produce publicity in the franchise, which is probably why many of its Pokemon were pushed out in the forefront with XY.
For what it's worth, I'd much rather see a new game based in Kanto instead of a fourth remake but I'm trying to keep expectations grounded here lol. Honestly though, the plot in Red/Blue is vague enough that it could incorporate tons of stuff from Adventures, Origins and the Kanto anime saga without drastically changing how the game unfolds in terms of progression.
Stardust_Comet
Neo Member
I do see both of your points that one coming out this gen would be too soon and it'd get people complaining.
However, since the remakes have proven to be successful, I don't think GameFreak wouldn't try again in the future. Hell, their entire franchise is built on the fact that they'll send out two-three games that have the exact same characters, the exact same plot, the exact same region with probably at most having only one town being different, and the exact same pokemon barring maybe less than 20 differences, plus the main legendary. That's been going well for them for all these years. The community is honestly not doing enough to tell them "stop repeating your games" for them not to think of trying a re-remake.
We'll definitely at least get one re-remake of Gen 1. Whether that bombs or not will tell GameFreak whether or not it's safe to try doing the same for all the other gens that have had remakes though.
Although I do agree that it would be nice if they changed it so that we're not following Red's adventure and that we get a new plot instead.
However, since the remakes have proven to be successful, I don't think GameFreak wouldn't try again in the future. Hell, their entire franchise is built on the fact that they'll send out two-three games that have the exact same characters, the exact same plot, the exact same region with probably at most having only one town being different, and the exact same pokemon barring maybe less than 20 differences, plus the main legendary. That's been going well for them for all these years. The community is honestly not doing enough to tell them "stop repeating your games" for them not to think of trying a re-remake.
We'll definitely at least get one re-remake of Gen 1. Whether that bombs or not will tell GameFreak whether or not it's safe to try doing the same for all the other gens that have had remakes though.
Although I do agree that it would be nice if they changed it so that we're not following Red's adventure and that we get a new plot instead.
Stardust_Comet
Neo Member
I don't think so. I've heard that some people have been wanting it but so far it hasn't happened yet.
Exterminieren
Banned
I... can't actually believe people don't think X and Y will be patched with the new Megas.
You actually think you won't be able to see or use the new Megas in X and Y... Apart from Latios and Latias for whatever reason? No way in hell. Game Freak may be many things, but I can't see them being that unforgivably lazy.
You actually think you won't be able to see or use the new Megas in X and Y... Apart from Latios and Latias for whatever reason? No way in hell. Game Freak may be many things, but I can't see them being that unforgivably lazy.
ArchedThunder
Banned
What's the point of spending money on a patch when they likely already programmed the games to just put a Mega symbol next to the names of Mega Pokemon that aren't in XY.
Explain to me the difference between rebooting RBY and just remaking it. They basically sound the same thing in this case :x
ArchedThunder
Banned
Do completely new shit instead of a straight remake, just like any other reboot.
Exterminieren
Banned
OK. What happens when Mega Rayquaza uses Dragon Ascent in a match against someone with X and Y?
We've NEVER had entirely new moves introduced mid-gen before. Does this not suggest a patch is needed?
Also, I'm fairly certain we'd know if there was space allocated for changed Mega stat allocations. In times gone by, there'd be some rudimentary info programmed for Pokémon who'd later get different formes, but we haven't heard anything like that being included for Megas.
Reboots do not have to be set in the same Kanto (or in Kanto at all), and use the same Pokemon and characters. Also, it gives them a chance to rework evolutions, which are getting ridiculously unwieldy.
And you still can play FR/LG for all your nostalgia. I just don't want to play RBGY again.
I don't think rebooting Pokemon is even an option at this point, they've invested too much into all 700+ of those things over the course of how ever many years.
And what you suggests sounds like what they do now with every new gen. New region, new and old pokemon.
And it is an extreme hassle to move your pokemon up from the older gens to the current one. Once they update them to current levels, it'll be no problem :/
ArchedThunder
Banned
They likely planned ahead and it will probably use the animation of another attack, like Oblivion Wing.
That was when a select few Pokemon got new forms, plus I believe that a few B2W2 forms didn't have any data in BW. Any Pokémon can get a Mega, so it's likely programed into the game separate from the Pokemon themselves.
Even if they do do a compatibility patch I can assure you that you won't be able to get the new Megas in XY.
Exterminieren
Banned
This has never happened. If they had planned ahead to the degree that you think they did, they'd have included the attack in the files in the first place. That's what they did with Light of Ruin, Thousand Arrows and Thousand Waves.
Besides, what about the new abilities? They have effects that aren't programmed into X and Y. Are they just going to be ignored?
Maybe, maybe not. I'd personally be a bit surprised if you couldn't trade over ORAS Mega Stones and use them in X and Y in the eventuality of such a patch, but it's not inconceivable, I suppose.
There will be a compatibility patch, though. There's absolutely no reason for there not to be.
Can't the files be patched in with a new update like how that weird saving glitch that was fixed when X/Y launched?
Exterminieren
Banned
Well, yes. Such a patch was exactly what I was arguing for.
ArchedThunder's argument was that they wouldn't touch X and Y with any more patches, and all of ORAS's additions would be ignored. I don't see any evidence for that beyond what they've done on platforms where patching isn't possible, but whatever.
Don't see why they wouldn't at least patch some of the things into x/y now that it's possible to do so.
Also, don't know if it's not permitted but anybody in the US mind sending me a code for the shiny gengar event? I'm in Brazil and they haven't announced giving it away here :/
Also, don't know if it's not permitted but anybody in the US mind sending me a code for the shiny gengar event? I'm in Brazil and they haven't announced giving it away here :/
Honestly, I don't see how such a patch would require an extensive amount of work and resources devoted to it. The data's already there and the games run on the same engine, a modified and improved one perhaps, but does that take that much effort from GameFreak to build a compatibility patch?
Stardust_Comet
Neo Member
I mainly think of it as the reason that GameFreak won't want to set a precedent of patching in new pokemon/forms and attacks into old games.
Look, it's find and dandy for us to think "they only have to do it this one time" but then when Z/XY2 come out with new megas, those exact same people who wanted a patch for XY to include new megas are going to be demanding it again, this time with the crowd from ORAS wanting the same thing.
And then when a new gen comes out on the next handheld, do you think these people who have already come to expect new megas to be patched into their old games are going to just accept "it's a new gen so we have to move on"? It's not likely. The majority of people don't really know or care about the mechanics behind the game. They're just playing it for fun. So all they need to know here is "well GameFreak did it before, why can't they do it now? They're just being lazy!" without realising that all those new megas are on a different system that requires different codes, so making a patch for an older system means making different codes up.
Setting up a precedent then changing your mind and not doing it later on will piss people off far more than never delivering on that "change" in the first place. I just believe GameFreak has already talked this out, figured this is a very likely scenario to happen and decide it's safer to not set any expectations up.
Look, it's find and dandy for us to think "they only have to do it this one time" but then when Z/XY2 come out with new megas, those exact same people who wanted a patch for XY to include new megas are going to be demanding it again, this time with the crowd from ORAS wanting the same thing.
And then when a new gen comes out on the next handheld, do you think these people who have already come to expect new megas to be patched into their old games are going to just accept "it's a new gen so we have to move on"? It's not likely. The majority of people don't really know or care about the mechanics behind the game. They're just playing it for fun. So all they need to know here is "well GameFreak did it before, why can't they do it now? They're just being lazy!" without realising that all those new megas are on a different system that requires different codes, so making a patch for an older system means making different codes up.
Setting up a precedent then changing your mind and not doing it later on will piss people off far more than never delivering on that "change" in the first place. I just believe GameFreak has already talked this out, figured this is a very likely scenario to happen and decide it's safer to not set any expectations up.
Should that occur, I hope they expand more on the Sevii Island arch
Professor Beef
Banned
I seriously hated those islands. It felt like they just gave up around the 3rd or 4th island.
ugh the Sevii Islands were so lazy
Exterminieren
Banned
Did people seriously complain that Game Freak didn't let you battle between Gen IV and Gen V?
Game Freak already goes to great lengths to ensure that games are compatible within their generation. What they do not, and haven't done since Gold and Silver, is bend over backwards to allow people to freely trade and battle between generations. The next generation will almost certainly be on the next generation of hardware, and I honestly think people will accept limited compatibility between generations. They have up until this point, at least.
Stardust_Comet
Neo Member
Actually, there have been people that do make that complaint. There is always someone complaining that. It may not be on here, but I've seen the "why can't they make a patch so I can get pokemon from a new gen onto my old gen game" complaint on tumblr at least too many times to care to count.
It just depends where you look on the internet. There is always some aspect that someone is not happy about and on the internet, they'll band together and complain about it.
Exterminieren
Banned
I don't honestly think you can legislate for that. These people should have no part in Game Freak's thinking.
Stardust_Comet
Neo Member
But Game Freak does at least think of its fans to a degree. They wouldn't intentionally do something they believe would piss off the majority of the fanbase.
That's just how I think of it as their reasoning for why a patch to add new megas may not happen. You're free to believe that a patch will happen though.
ArchedThunder
Banned
"Why can't I battle between gens" has been a complaint since Gen III since Gen II let you battle with Gen I. I also remember plenty of people complaining that XY was on 3DS because we had two gens on DS. It's all about setting a precedent.
Anyways, I believe that they did go to great lengths during the development of XY to make sure it would be compatible with the changes made in future Gen VI games without a patch so that they wouldn't have to update it with each new release. The new Megas don't need to be in the game for it to be perfectly compatible with ORAS, and as for new attacks we've only seen them be used by the new forms of the 3 Legends so they probably don't exist outside of those forms and you will need a specific move on the Pokemon to get that move when they change form, similar to Rotom, and when using the attack on someone playing XY it would simply show the animation of the original attack. Abilities can't likely be fiddled with in a similar way too. It wouldn't be that hard to program it so that the proper text comes through either.
I'd like that too.
Exterminieren
Banned
If they'd planned so thoroughly ahead, why was data in X and Y for Mega Latia/os, and no one else? Surely they'd either include every new Mega, or no new Mega? Are you saying that these Megas will show up in X and Y battles, but every other new one won't?
Also, Rayquaza's other form is a Mega. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Megas haven't changed any other Pokémon's movesets, have they?
No text for the effect of the new Abilities exists in the game. Their effects are unique, and have not been found within X and Y. They can indeed programme it so that the proper text comes through, but as no such text exists in the X and Y data... it would require a patch.
Also, Rayquaza's other form is a Mega. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Megas haven't changed any other Pokémon's movesets, have they?
No text for the effect of the new Abilities exists in the game. Their effects are unique, and have not been found within X and Y. They can indeed programme it so that the proper text comes through, but as no such text exists in the X and Y data... it would require a patch.
ArchedThunder
Banned
It's as simple as them making the Mega during the development of XY, at one point they might have thought it would be cool to get them in XY and them trade them to ORAS.
Not yet, but that doesn't mean it can't ever happen.
Which is why it would have to be programmed to accept altered data from another piece of signed code, it's literally not that hard to do, the actual effects and text don't need to exist in XY, the games would just have to be made with that in mind.
Exterminieren
Banned
So, when battling with against a Mega Latios with X and Y, what happens? Do they just use the default Latios model, like every other ORAS Mega? If not, will that not be rather jarring?
So the original games will remain unpatched because that's the way that Game Freak's always done it, but a game mechanic will change just to fit this. Hmm.
Is there any evidence that X and Y were programmed in this way? If there is, I wonder why they never did it up until this point, and why they bothered programming in Thousand Arrows, Thousand Waves and Light of Ruin.
ArchedThunder
Banned
Probably the models that already exist in XY.
That's a completely different situation and you know it, extraneous development and the design behind game mechanics that already exist with other Pokemon are not even comparable.
We don't know and we likely won't know until November, as for the other moves it's probably because those are real moves that can sit on a Pokemon's move set instead of only existing in a battle only alternate form like a Mega.
Exterminieren
Banned
Isn't that a little bit inconsistent? People will be annoyed.
I disagree that the extraneous development will be any kind of taxing, and it's only now been possible.
We have no idea whether Precipice Blade, Origin Pulse and Dragon's Ascent are exclusive to the Megas/ Primals yet. They've only shown them off with those because, duh, no shit are they focusing on the new forms.
They most assuredly have data in the same way that the other unused moves do.
Stardust_Comet
Neo Member
Well, I'm going to be a douchebag and open this can of worms because I'm surprised this wasn't asked before.
Do we know for certain if megas will be allowed to battle pokemon from other "games"? And by that I mean, the "sets" like X and Y being basically the same game, and OR and AS being pretty much the same game too.
Do we know for certain if megas will be allowed to battle pokemon from other "games"? And by that I mean, the "sets" like X and Y being basically the same game, and OR and AS being pretty much the same game too.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Did people forget the three Kami forms as well as Fused Kyurem? Their data wasn't in the BW cartridge yet players can fight with them.
Also the "futureproofing" they mentioned was merely about Pokemon transferring.
As far as moveset go, the Pokemon are technically programmed to have all moves. It's more on whether the game allows the move to appear on the Pokemon's moveset.
Also the "futureproofing" they mentioned was merely about Pokemon transferring.
As far as moveset go, the Pokemon are technically programmed to have all moves. It's more on whether the game allows the move to appear on the Pokemon's moveset.