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[gutshot]

I can't fucking believe I just read those 4 pages of GEN 2 pokemon stuff only to find out its a redditors fan theory.

The fact that it is a convoluted disaster as far as game and UI design goes didn't tip you off to that?

Oh wait...

 

[Duane Cunningham]

Which IV calculator is better, PA or Silph?

 

[NCR Redslayer]

I can't fucking believe I just read those 4 pages of GEN 2 pokemon stuff only to find out its a redditors fan theory.

Thats reddit for you.

 

[Yoshichan]

Game is unplayable for me now

Lagging like a mofo can't do shit

 

[Razmos]

Heh, I can still name all 151 OG pokemon from memory and spell them all Could before Go launched too. It's really obvious to me that I would have noticed ONE pokemon that wasn't on that list

Personally I'm not asking them to do that but I did offer my thoughts above, and I'll reiterate that it's simply a tricky balance for Niantic. The appeal of this individual game does extend way, way beyond diehard fans and frankly it's worth mentioning that this is actually the first experience a lot of people are having with the franchise.

Also holy hell at the bold. 70 (plus?) more than my guess.

Because it's a first experience that's even more reason to include further pokemon. Including more keeps interest in the game, introduces more pokemon to new fans and makes them more likely to actually buy mainline pokemon games.

The continued success of the pokemon franchise is more important than catering to genwunners who only want to see the original 151.
This game will be dead if they don't add new pokemon, it's inevitable.

And yes lol, the current count is 721, with at least 35 more coming in the new game

 

[Kid Ska]

The fact that it is a convoluted disaster as far as game and UI design goes didn't tip you off to that?

Oh wait...

Okay so this is a big exaggeration. It was actually pretty well thought out for what I assume was one guy and Photoshop.

 

[IXI FalcoN]

I'd also prefer if it was kept to the original 151 for at least the first year. The last game I played was Ruby when it came out and I have no memory of it whatsoever. Gen 2 was the last set of games I enjoyed. The original 151 I know by heart and I haven't touched those games in 15 years.

I would probably still play if they added in the gen 2 mons. 251 is still an attainable figure and I remember most of the gen 2 additions. The nostalgia and attachment just isn't there beyond that. Gen 3 took the count up to almost 400, who can even remember that many, let alone the 721 there is now and whatever Sun and Moon will take it to.

 

[Geminosity]

For those worried that capturing more than 151 is daunting, it's worth noting that later pokemon games started dividing the pokedex into regional pokedexs, that way it's less a case of collecting all 700+ and more broken down into more sane 'chunks' :3

If the concern is more a nostalgia/design one then all I have to say as someone who started back with pokemon red is...

Mawile isn't in gen 1 therefore it is imperative that they add the other gens

------

Which IV calculator is better, PA or Silph?

I like the silph one but getting the correct part on the arc is essential or you'll end up with incorrect results, therefore I prefer to use the PA one, the spreadsheet or either of these two.

 

[Hawkian]

I don't really feel the need to add Gen 2 Poke immediately (because god knows when I'll even hit 100 Pokes at the pace I'm going) but at this point I don't think the appeal is only on 'nostalgia'. I know there are a lot of people that go "oh there's Ice cream Pokémon now!!!" because of 'internet' memes but that haven't followed the series and don't see the good designs we get with each gen and it's kind of a bummer to shut the others out completely imo.

For those people (and the kids getting into Pokémon, friends getting into it because of friends) more Poke just mean more, fun designs (and learning the fun designs instead of thinking everything's a key ring) and more chances to go out. I agree with Hawkian 100% tho that the appeal is that 151 is not too far off - it's a pleasant number - which is why I'm hoping that down the road they do an actual Pokémon Game with the Best Pokes from each Region and limit at 200 tops (otherwise I fear I might drop Sun/Moon just like I dropped White 2 while getting through the fodder/obligatory harder to catch ones)

That's an interesting suggestion. It would be sort of exciting to see which ones "made the cut" of a 200 total limit, but I'm sure favorites from each gen would be getting the ax left and right, which isn't ideal.

I know plenty of people playing that had never played a Pokemon game before, or were only casually familiar with the originals enough to name Charmander, Pikachu and a few others. Including more Pokemon as time goes on from future generations will only further to increase their interest and way more Pokemon fans will prefer the additions of Gen II and beyond than would not. The '151 only' crowd existed way before GO and is very vocal.

I think this is sort of an oversimplification. I mean I hate to put it in these terms- and it may or may not be fair, since I don't really know much about the mechanical quality of the games after Gold/Silver except for Leaf Green and Fire Red- but the sales numbers for each main RPG almost completely follow a direct descent with each successive generation. I think the only exception is Black or White 2 selling less than X/Y? So clearly just adding new Pokemon isn't a recipe for furthering interest and arguably isn't correlated with it at all.

Let me ask it this way:

If 500 new Pokemon were added to the game tomorrow, I imagine that you would think that was great. But do you really think it would improve things for someone who just hit level 10, and is trying to "catch em all?"

If nothing else we should all be able to agree that it has to be handled with some planning.

I can't fucking believe I just read those 4 pages of GEN 2 pokemon stuff only to find out its a redditors fan theory.

It's not a theory, it's a suggestion. Though if you're saying it shouldn't have been posted here in full size without much context, I agree XD

 

[Meier]

I'd also prefer if it was kept to the original 151 for at least the first year.

This is a dream that has no basis in reality unfortunately. This game will die on the vine comparatively speaking if they don't regularly release new content. The second they notice a significant drop or even the hint of a drop more likely, they'll need to put out new Pokemon to re-hook people.

 

[Icyflamez96]

Eh. I know I am in a tiny minority here on GAF, but I think it was a masterstroke only including the Gen 1 Pokemon and a huge part of the game's appeal for me. I know for people who have stayed close to the franchise for the entirety of the last two decades it probably feels shallow and redundant to be catching this fraction of the total monsters yet again, but for me it's a thorough nostalgia-gasm as well as a very strong rekindling of that initial sense of potential accomplishment- that I could actually feasibly collect all 151.

I'll refrain completely any discussion of the actual quality of the Pokemon beyond Gen 1, not referring to that at all right here. But just the fact that there are more, and then more after that, makes the prospect of "catching em all" more daunting and less practical for me. Right now I am primarily excited about one day having "all" 151 Pokemon in my collection. If more are added before I've had the chance to even do that, it'll actually make things a lot less interesting for me. That's not even getting into the possibility of trying to keep up with/collect all... what are we up to now, 650?

Basically there are a lot of different kinds of players for a game like this. That fan concept for introducing Gen 2 was actually the first concept I'd seen that might actually make it enticing for someone like me. I can completely understand why a majority of people posting on this board would prefer that many more Pokemon are added, as much and as often as possible, but I did want to offer my perspective.

The only new Pokemon on the roster I actively want (i.e. would be completely okay with being added to the game 5 minutes from now) are the pre-evolutions and further evolvutions of the Gen 1 mons. People like me know Pichu and Scizor from Smash Bros and have seen that there are other cool evolutions for Eevee we never got to play with. At this moment I'm totally down for those. But the further we go into expanding the roster, the less appealing the entire proposition is to me personally. It's a tricky balance for Niantic.

I don't know if that many people necessarily argue that starting off only with gen 1 was a bad thing for the overall appeal of the game. I do think that decision also had a lot to do with just the fact that the game would take much longer to come out if they wanted to launch with multiple gens. And at some nearer rather than later point in the future, starting to add in pokemon from later gens will only be good for the game IMO. I'm personally at the point where I want more pokemon out there to collect.

 

[Kid Ska]

If the concern is more a nostalgia/design one then all I have to say as someone who started back with pokemon red is...

Mawile isn't in gen 1 therefore it is imperative that they add the other gens

Good taste.

 

[Waylon Drums]

Every time I build up a good stock of balls, every Pokemon I encounter suddenly has super strength. A berry, an ultra ball, and a great throw? No match for this Pigeotto!

 

[Icyflamez96]

Mawile isn't in gen 1 therefore it is imperative that they add the other gens

nor is ya boy buizel

 

[zroid]

if they include more gens then chances are are I'll stop seeing nothing but Drowzees and Zubats all day which is reason enough to increase the size of GO's Pokédex

Every time I build up a good stock of balls, every Pokemon I encounter suddenly has super strength. A berry, an ultra ball, and a great throw? No match for this Pigeotto!

you are describing my experience this morning with that fucking Wartortle which I didn't even end up catching. Sigh.

 

[PSFan]

Mawile isn't in gen 1 therefore it is imperative that they add the other gens

THIS!!! So much.

 

[Breakfast at Noon]

Can't get anything new to spawn.
Been everywhere i can in my area and tried everything

 

[sam777]

I can't wait till they add gen II, even though I have only caught 65, I am sick of seeing these Rattata's, Pidgey's, Weedle's and Drowzee's.

 

[Waylon Drums]

you are describing my experience this morning with that fucking Wartortle which I didn't even end up catching. Sigh.

It helps to vent haha.

 

[Skeletron]

I figure we'll be seeing pvp, trading, clan/community tools, more character customization, maybe an improved "nearby pokemon" thing, other features and plenty of bug fixes before Niantic feels any need to tap into the sequels.

 

[AdanVC]

Holy shit there's a Ninetales 5 streets from where I am right now but I can't go out to capture it cuz I'm stuck at work and it despawns in 7 minutes I want to cry!!

 

[gutshot]

Okay so this is a big exaggeration. It was actually pretty well thought out for what I assume was one guy and Photoshop.

I got lost on slide 2. Breeding, special items, baby Pokemons, special eggs; it all seems needlessly complex. Just add more Pokemon to the Pokedex.

 

[Firemind]

Up to gen 4 is fine. It's gen 5 and later that jumped the shark. Can you imagine having to find 200 candies to mega evolve your pokemon then get stuck with it? Or having to find that specific orb which might be even worse.

 

[Pop]

Can't get anything new to spawn.
Been everywhere i can in my area and tried everything

I haven't seen half the pokemon yet. There is no fire types in my town or surrounding areas.

 

[Geminosity]

Good taste.

THIS!!! So much.

if they include more gens then chances are are I'll stop seeing nothing but Drowzees and Zubats all day which is reason enough to increase the size of GO's Pokédex

Despite there actually being a really good spread of monsters here in Edinburgh I have to say I'm so sick of drowzees. They're ugly and they're everywhere. I can stomach zubats because I think they're oddly cute and I know how to catch them and pidgeys are great because they're fab xp fodder, but drowzees? I hope the ones here migrate when new invasive species from later gens appear ¬.¬

Can't get anything new to spawn.
Been everywhere i can in my area and tried everything

Thanks to the various maps/trackers I've noticed a lot of the rarer pokemon here seem to like spawning down bizarre little streets I'd normally never have a reason to investigate. Sometimes you just need to get a lil adventurous or travel further outside of your usual areas... then again, some people seem to be unlucky and live in really non-diverse places pokemon-wise :/

 

[Hawkian]

Because it's a first experience that's even more reason to include further pokemon. Including more keeps interest in the game, introduces more pokemon to new fans and makes them more likely to actually buy mainline pokemon games.

The continued success of the pokemon franchise is more important than catering to genwunners who only want to see the original 151.
This game will be dead if they don't add new pokemon, it's inevitable.

Again, I think this is a little more complicated than something that can be reduced to a truism. I think if it were the case that every successive generation adding new Pokemon were more successful than the one before it, it would make a lot more sense to tie the success of the franchise so intimately to the number of Pokemon available. But that hasn't been the case.

I want you to imagine the game an hour from now gets a patch adding in all the rest of the Pokemon. Hopefully you can perceive a potential problem with that approach as I can- so the only conclusion is that the right course of action is somewhere in the middle.

And yes lol, the current count is 721, with at least 35 more coming in the new game

That is a lot.

For those worried that capturing more than 151 is daunting, it's worth noting that later pokemon games started dividing the pokedex into regional pokedexs, that way it's less a case of collecting all 700+ and more broken down into more sane 'chunks' :3

I didn't know that. I'll have to ponder how it might translate to Go (obviously "region" won't quite pan out) but it is nicer to imagine that kind of organization versus the denominator suddenly being /500 or whatever.

I don't know if that many people necessarily argue that starting off only with gen 1 was a bad thing for the overall appeal of the game. I do think that decision also had a lot to do with just the fact that the game would take much longer to come out if they wanted to launch with multiple gens. And at some nearer rather than later point in the future, starting to add in pokemon from later gens will only be good for the game IMO. I'm personally at the point where I want more pokemon out there to collect.

I didn't mean to indicate that I thought people were saying it was a bad thing- just that my opinion was that it was an extremely smart, even critical move as far as making this the success, hell the phenomenon that it is. Regardless of when the game actually managed to launch.

I guess it's actually hard to explain to some extent! For me, catching all 151 (welllll I didn't get Mew "legit" ) Pokemon was a huge deal. So incredibly satisfying. When Gold/Silver came out (as much as I did enjoy Silver and played the crap out of it), that accomplishment was reduced a bit. Then after that point it was reduced further until the franchise just sort of lost me.

Now the original drive of accomplishing that same thing is back again. I mean it feels just like it did back then, despite all the mechanical differences. Exactly when and how to meddle with that sensation is going to be a substantial obstacle for Niantic to solve.

 

[number11]

When did gen 2 Pokemon start appearing in the animation? For some reason I remember Togepi pretty well thinking he/she was one of the original gen.

 

[Kid Ska]

I got lost on slide 2. Breeding, special items, baby Pokemons, special eggs; it all seems needlessly complex. Just add more Pokemon to the Pokedex.

Did you play anything past the first generation? It's all taken straight from the games. And this game could absolutely use a bit more complexity.

 

[Razmos]

When did gen 2 Pokemon start appearing in the animation? For some reason I remember Togepi pretty well thinking he/she was one of the original gen.

Togepi showed up very early on. In fact the earliest 2nd Gen pokemon was Ho-Oh in the very first episode of the anime.

Togepi showed up as an egg in the same episode Charmeleon evolved into Charizard. And then there were some Gen 2 pokemon like Donphan and Snubbul in the first movie, and then Marill joined the main group during the orange islands arc

 

[AdanVC]

Has someone captured a Gyarados on the wild or the only way to get one is through the 400 Magikarps?? Thank.

 

[SargerusBR]

When did gen 2 Pokemon start appearing in the animation? For some reason I remember Togepi pretty well thinking he/she was one of the original gen.

First episode.

 

[Geminosity]

nor is ya boy buizel

While I obviously have my favourites there are a lot of new pokemon they added over the various games I like :3

I figure we'll be seeing pvp, trading, clan/community tools, more character customization, maybe an improved "nearby pokemon" thing, other features and plenty of bug fixes before Niantic feels any need to tap into the sequels.

I believe Niantic said something to the effect of Trading being the first feature they intend on adding once the servers are dealt with.

Every time I build up a good stock of balls, every Pokemon I encounter suddenly has super strength. A berry, an ultra ball, and a great throw? No match for this Pigeotto!

Random is random. I often catch orange and red circle mons with a normal pokeball and no berry, but some people seem to just have more luck than others. Once had a friend who seemed to roll a probability-breaking amount of 1s on dice in any board game we played XD

 

[Kid Ska]

Has someone captured a Gyarados on the wild or the only way to get one is through the 400 Magikarps?? Thank.

They're in the wild. Had a cp1500 Gyarados run away from me.

 

[DeployThatPizza]

Has someone captured a Gyarados on the wild or the only way to get one is through the 400 Magikarps?? Thank.

Tons of people have caught a Gyarados in the wild.

 

[gutshot]

Did you play anything past the first generation? It's all taken straight from the games. And this game could absolutely use a bit more complexity.

I've never played any of the Pokemon games. So if it is confusing to me, it will likely be confusing to the millions of other Go players who've never played a traditional Pokemon game before.

I really think Niantic should keep things simple and well-polished with this game. They've got the simple part down with the current version. They need to polish it up. And then once they start adding more features, make sure they are released in an easily understood form.

 

[Lee Chaolan]

Went to Kissimmee Lake Front near Orlando and it was incredible. Caught like 100 uncommon/semi-rare Pokemon over 2 hours. No pidgeys, rattatas, or zubats in sight. Never gonna be able to go back to catching mon in my small town again

ya, it's really the best in the region.. really hard to go elsewhere, it's also hard on the balls (great / ultra) plus always get at least one cool thing. Parking, however, sucks.. be careful where you park cuz they do tow if you aren't parked properly. It does suck for XP farming tho.

Damn, how far from Disney Springs is that? Gonna be vacationing soon might try to make it there. xD

 

[Hawkian]

I totally remember thinking Togepi was obviously going to be Pokemon #152 due to the anime and then being very confused by the eventual listing

 

[Duane Cunningham]

------


I like the silph one but getting the correct part on the arc is essential or you'll end up with incorrect results, therefore I prefer to use the PA one, the spreadsheet or either of these two.

I see, so basically, you pretty much HAVE to power it up to the next stardust increase to see accurate results, no matter which one you use.

 

[Icyflamez96]

I guess it's actually hard to explain to some extent! For me, catching all 151 (welllll I didn't get Mew "legit" ) Pokemon was a huge deal. So incredibly satisfying. When Gold/Silver came out (as much as I did enjoy Silver and played the crap out of it), that accomplishment was reduced a bit. Then after that point it was reduced further until the franchise just sort of lost me.

Now the original drive of accomplishing that same thing is back again. I mean it feels just like it did back then, despite all the mechanical differences. Exactly when and how to meddle with that sensation is going to be a substantial obstacle for Niantic to solve.

I agree that when I played silver, I gave up any hope of even thinking about possibly completing the pokedex. Though it wasn't something I cared much about in blue version either, since those games were much more than just collecting to me. Considering this game is basically all about collecting (for me), I'd definitely like to see more pokemon being added to give me more incentive to keep searching.

You wouldn't want them to add pokemon at all after gen 1? I agree it's smart to not have overwhelmed people from the start, but I do think they could start trickling in new pokemon any time now ._.

 

[AdanVC]

They're in the wild. Had a cp1500 Gyarados run away from me.

Tons of people have caught a Gyarados in the wild.

Awesome, thanks! That's good news to me because there's barely any Magikarps on my zone. Now just waiting till a random Gyarados appears somewhere someday in here...

 

[Geminosity]

I've never played any of the Pokemon games. So if it is confusing to me, it will likely be confusing to the millions of other Go players who've never played a traditional Pokemon game before.

I really think Niantic should keep things simple and well-polished with this game. They've got the simple part down well with the current version. They need to polish it up. And then once they start adding more features, make sure they are released in an easily understood form.

So you'd be a fan of revamping the gym battle system then? ;D

Joking aside, I think a lot of people confuse complexity with depth. You can have very simple systems with surprising depth, but it's easier to give an 'impression' of depth with needless complexity without actually accomplishing much.

...seriously though, a gym battle revamp would be good by me. Especially one that doesn't do tap AND swipe gestures so that the game can confuse the two and isn't so vulnerable to falling apart when there's latency ¬.¬

 

[Kid Ska]

one that doesn't do tap AND swipe gestures so that the game can confuse the two

This is the most frustrating thing

 

[Geminosity]

I see, so basically, you pretty much HAVE to power it up to the next stardust increase to see accurate results, no matter which one you use.

Yup, unless you get really lucky you'll almost always end up with a range of possibilties on a freshly caught pokemon. That said, you can often narrow it a lot by evolving the pokemon then using the 'refine' or similar feature on any of those.

The only way to get a 100% accurate read without doing anything is using 'man in the middle' software which effectively gets your PC to sit between your phone and servers and read the data packets. I'm not sure that Niantic can actually detect you doing this (as you're only reading the data, not altering it) but I'm pretty sure it's against the Terms of Service so be warned if you go looking into it.

edit:

This is the most frustrating thing

I've genuinely lost count of how many times I've attempted to swipe to dodge and had the game somehow interpret it as a tap resulting in me taking full damage as my pokemon stands perfectly still to do it's attack instead :/

 

[BigJonsson]

The tracking tools need to come back online, I'm flying blind here

 

[Hawkian]

I agree that when I played silver, I gave up any hope of even thinking about possibly completing the pokedex. Though it wasn't something I cared much about in blue version either, since those games were much more than just collecting to me. Considering this game is basically all about collecting (for me), I'd definitely like to see more pokemon being added to give me more incentive to keep searching.

Interesting! I gave up on the notion during Silver too, but start to finish with Blue and my best friend playing Red, catchin' em all was first order of business.

You wouldn't want them to add pokemon at all after gen 1? I agree it's smart to not have overwhelmed people from the start, but I do think they could start trickling in new pokemon any time now ._.

It's really kinda two different questions, I think...

Personally, I wouldn't want them to EXCEPT for the pre-evolved and new evolved forms of Gen 1 Pokemon. I really want Scizor, Pichu, Steelix, the Eeeves whose names I don't know, etc. But outside of them- adding more, at least in theory, means adding Gen 2, and I liked way, way fewer of the Gen 2 mons than Gen 1 and can barely remember any except the really big ones. So that doesn't appeal, but that's just me. I have no idea if I might like a lot of the newer mons since I just didn't keep up with the series, maybe I would.

But as far as what Niantic should do with all players in mind, rather than catering just to me, I think they probably should add new batches, maybe every 6 months. To keep me invested at those points, I'd like there to be more to it than the number just increasing in the Pokedex apropos of nothing.

 

[gutshot]

So you'd be a fan of revamping the gym battle system then? ;D

Joking aside, I think a lot of people confuse complexity with depth. You can have very simple systems with surprising depth, but it's easier to give an 'impression' of depth with needless complexity without actually accomplishing much.

...seriously though, a gym battle revamp would be good by me. Especially one that doesn't do tap AND swipe gestures so that the game can confuse the two and isn't so vulnerable to falling apart when there's latency ¬.¬

The gym battle system absolutely needs a polish pass. It's pretty obvious that was the last thing they developed before releasing the full game. It barely works as-is. And the whole system is not explained well in game at all.

And I agree with you that complexity is often confused with depth. Just adding a convoluted breeding system isn't going to all of a sudden make the game deeper. But it might end up confusing and frustrating a large part of the player base. Like I said, Niantic needs to be very careful how they introduce new features to ensure inexperienced players aren't getting left behind.

 

[Fox Mulder]

I can't wait till they add gen II, even though I have only caught 65, I am sick of seeing these Rattata's, Pidgey's, Weedle's and Drowzee's.

adding another gen will just dilute the spawns and make it harder to evolve anything. Finding candy is already hard enough for some people and some pokemon need like 100 to evolve.

 

[Kid Ska]

adding another gen will just dilute the spawns and make it harder to evolve anything. Finding candy is already hard enough for some people and some pokemon need like 100 to evolve.

Yeah they absolutely need to add another way of getting candy if they push out more Pokemon.

 

[EL CUCO]

Been getting a ton of freezes today. Disabling battery saver seems to have helped.

 

[Icyflamez96]

Personally, I wouldn't want them to EXCEPT for the pre-evolved and new evolved forms of Gen 1 Pokemon. I really want Scizor, Pichu, Steelix, the Eeeves whose names I don't know, etc. But outside of them- adding more, at least in theory, means adding Gen 2, and I liked way, way fewer of the Gen 2 mons than Gen 1 and can barely remember any except the really big ones. So that doesn't appeal, but that's just me. I have no idea if I might like a lot of the newer mons since I just didn't keep up with the series, maybe I would.

Along with that, there are also evolutions to some gen 1 pokemon that don't come until gen 4. (Electabuzz, Rhydon, and Magmar) Would you personally mind if those were added as well?

One more question. This will decide on how I judge you as a human being, so answer wisely.

As a person who stopped following after hen 2 (presumably?) do you think buizel (gen 4) is a quality design