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[Lights and Waves]

A few questions about the Pokemon canon:

1. How does Nintendo explain the fact that two boys, both the same age, living in a tiny little town just so happen to be named after the colors Red and Blue? My head canon was always that their mothers were best friends who got pregnant around the same time and thought it'd be cute to name their kids this way.

2. Is Pokemon Yellow the canon game of R/B/FR/LG.Y? As in, Red receives a Pikachu and Blue receives an Eevee? Or am I messing this up with the anime?

3. Additionally, is Leaf canon in the Pokemon continuity, or is she just a female avatar for the sake of inclusion?

 

[Wiseblade]

1) The names are a minor coincidence. The bigger leap is how these two 10 year olds from the same sleepy town happen to be the two strongest trainers in the Kanto region.

2) Yellow is the Canonical Gen I game, kind of. Red's party in GSC and HGSS are made up of Gift Pokémon in Yellow and the Snorlax you have to encounter as part of the story.

3) Leaf is as canonical as any of the protagonists.

 

[Pop-O-Matic]

Red in GSC had all 4 starters pretty much so they wouldn't have to give him a "canon" starter.

 

[Parshias7]

Red in GSC had all 4 starters pretty much so they wouldn't have to give him a "canon" starter.

But that makes Yellow being canon more likely since that's the only game where you can get all four without trading.

 

[ZeroGravity]

RBY and FRLG are in two separate continuities. Yellow could be considered the canon game of Gen 1/2, but would have no relation to anything Gen 3 onward.

 

[Lights and Waves]

Red in GSC had all 4 starters pretty much so they wouldn't have to give him a "canon" starter.

Or it could be the Red from Pokemon Yellow, who acquired all the starters by other means.

 

[Zyrox]

I knew this was a Lights and Waves thread. Man, I spend too much time on GAF.

 

[Nintenleo]

Red in GSC had all 4 starters pretty much so they wouldn't have to give him a "canon" starter.

Red in GSC was definetely the one from Yellow

 

[KAL2006]

I don't think Nintendo knows or cares and so should you

 

[LegendofLex]

How does Nintendo explain the fact that two boys, both the same age, living in a tiny little town just so happen to be named after the colors Red and Blue? My head canon was always that their mothers were best friends who got pregnant around the same time and thought it'd be cute to name their kids this way.

Maybe you didn't notice, but every single town or city in Kanto is also named after colors.

Is Pokemon Yellow the canon game of R/B/FR/LG.Y? As in, Red receives a Pikachu and Blue receives an Eevee? Or am I messing this up with the anime?

Pokemon Generations depicts Red as having captured Pikachu in Viridian Forest.

Additionally, is Leaf canon in the Pokemon continuity, or is she just a female avatar for the sake of inclusion?

lol

 

[ZeroGravity]

I don't think Nintendo knows or cares and so should you

Game Freak went as far as to establish that OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire take place in a different dimension as to not conflict with the fact that Ruby and Sapphire are canon to the other timeline. They care.

 

[Forkball]

You're about to get into some deepest lore shit if you go to far, but here are my thoughts:

It's sort of ambiguous. One can assume Yellow would be canon since the third versions are typically the "ultimate" versions and Red's team in GSC has all the starters, of which are all obtainable in Yellow. Not to mention Pikachu is unevolved, with there being no real reason why this should be outside of Pikachu refusing to evolve in Yellow. But then you have FRLG, which doesn't contradict anything in RBY yet it kind of "overrides" that canon. Red actually had a slightly different team in HGSS, replacing his Espeon with a Lapras, but Lapras was also a gift Pokemon in Gen I.

As for Leaf, I mean I guess she's canon by default, but it comes off as more of an inclusion thing. Nowadays the other gendered protagonist plays some role in the story, but Leaf is never mentioned or heard from again (same with Lyra/Crystal from GSC and HGSS).

If you wanna get even DEEPER... we technically have no idea about the happenings in Kanto at all since Gen VI because the Gen VI games (XY and ORAS) take place in a different dimension/universe. One could assume Gen VII is in this same universe, however Oak is outright mentioned and with the Ultra Beast dimensional portal shenanigans, Gen VII could take place in the original universe.

 

[Sou Da]

You're about to get into some deepest lore shit if you go to far, but here are my thoughts:

It's sort of ambiguous. One can assume Yellow would be canon since the third versions are typically the "ultimate" versions and Red's team in GSC has all the starters, of which are all obtainable in Yellow. Not to mention Pikachu is unevolved, with there being no real reason why this should be outside of Pikachu refusing to evolve in Yellow. But then you have FRLG, which doesn't contradict anything in RBY yet it kind of "overrides" that canon. Red actually had a slightly different team in HGSS, replacing his Espeon with a Lapras, but Lapras was also a gift Pokemon in Gen I.

As for Leaf, I mean I guess she's canon by default, but it comes off as more of an inclusion thing. Nowadays the other gendered protagonist plays some role in the story, but Leaf is never mentioned or heard from again (same with Lyra/Crystal from GSC and HGSS).

If you wanna get even DEEPER... we technically have no idea about the happenings in Kanto at all since Gen VI because the Gen VI games (XY and ORAS) take place in a different dimension/universe. One could assume Gen VII is in this same universe, however Oak is outright mentioned and with the Ultra Beast dimensional portal shenanigans, Gen VII could take place in the original universe.

Considering that before ORAS was a thing and one of the writers laid out the timeline that included the other games AND XY in it, I'd say the smart move would be to either ignore ORAS or just pretend that it has it's own version XY that took place.

 

[Leafhopper]

I don't think Nintendo knows or cares and so should you

You're fun.

 

[Mr-Joker]

A few questions about the Pokemon canon:

1. How does Nintendo explain the fact that two boys, both the same age, living in a tiny little town just so happen to be named after the colors Red and Blue? My head canon was always that their mothers were best friends who got pregnant around the same time and thought it'd be cute to name their kids this way.

They don't as it doesn't really matter as you can name them whatever.

Plus Blue is called Green in Japan, Gary in the animé and Shigeru in the Japanese Animé.

2. Is Pokemon Yellow the canon game of R/B/FR/LG.Y? As in, Red receives a Pikachu and Blue receives an Eevee? Or am I messing this up with the anime?

Gary starter in the Animé was Squirtle.

As for what game is canon it would be the Kanto remake since they default to Red design from that game.

3. Additionally, is Leaf canon in the Pokemon continuity, or is she just a female avatar for the sake of inclusion?

She doesn't exist.

But that makes Yellow being canon more likely since that's the only game where you can get all four without trading.

Yes but Pikachu in yellow refused to go in a Pokéball, Red's Pikachu appears to have no trouble being in a Pokéball.

So Yellow is not the cannon game and it's the Kanto remake.

I don't think Nintendo knows or cares and so should you

They kinda do care a bit.

Considering that before ORAS was a thing and one of the writers laid out the timeline that included the other games AND XY in it, I'd say the smart move would be to either ignore ORAS or just pretend that it has it's own version XY that took place.

If you're referring to that tweet, it was promptly deleted and the Hoenn remake pretty much makes it clear that there are multiple universe and X and Y is part of the universe with Mega.

Though we will soon see with Sun and Moon in 2 months time.

 

[CloudWolf]

Official Pokémon lore exists? Does it explain how every few years hundreds of new Pokémon are discovered, yet the entire world acts like they have been there all along?

 

[Mr-Joker]

Official Pokémon lore exists?

Yes they do and it gets pretty deep.

Does it explain how every few years hundreds of new Pokémon are discovered, yet the entire world acts like they have been there all along?

Just that the world of Pokémon is deep and that there are unexplored area where Pokémon lurk.

 

[Greenzxy]

Does it explain how every few years hundreds of new Pokémon are discovered, yet the entire world acts like they have been there all along?

Yea, that's the part I never really understood

 

[Ushojax]

Game Freak went as far as to establish that OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire take place in a different dimension as to not conflict with the fact that Ruby and Sapphire are canon to the other timeline. They care.

They really didn't, they gave a tongue-in-cheek explanation for the major additions to the story that weren't in the original games. They didn't do a Star Trek 2009 and split the continuities.

Zinnia's dialogue in the Delta Episode is just vague musings on the concept of alternate dimensions, not a cast-iron plot point.

 

[Kyzer]

The only canonical anything is Reds team at the end of Gold/Silver. We don't know which starter he canonically chose.

If its not in the games its not canon. Undiscovered Pokemon...you just gotta roll with it , it'll never make sense.

They really didn't, they gave a tongue-in-cheek explanation for the major additions to the story that weren't in the original games. They didn't do a Star Trek 2009 and split the continuities.

Thats actually pretty much exactly what they did though. They created a whole other universe to explain why things are happening that werent there before.

 

[Ushojax]

Thats actually pretty much exactly what they did though. They created a whole other universe to explain why things are happening that werent there before.

In a very vague sense that has no consequences for the story, maybe. The Delta Episode gives a wink to the existence of the original games and that's it, it's not some grand revelation that forever alters the Pokemon canon.

 

[Kyzer]

In a very vague sense, yes. The Delta Episode gives a wink to the existence of the original games and that's it, it's not some grand revelation.

the real revelation is that they care enough to bother to explain it at all, imo

theres also the confusing fact that you are playing the GBA games at the beginning of ORAS in the moving truck. that was a megaton to me but then delta episode happens so idk what theyre going for really

 

[Mr-Joker]

They really didn't, they gave a tongue-in-cheek explanation for the major additions to the story that weren't in the original games. They didn't do a Star Trek 2009 and split the continuities.

Zinnia's dialogue in the Delta Episode is just vague musings on the concept of alternate dimensions, not a cast-iron plot point.

No they did, Game Freak make a big deal about continuity, canon and Pokémon lore.

So the Hoenn in the remake is not the same one that exist in the original and they straight up split the Pokémon universe into two, one were the Kalos death cannon was fired causing mega and infinity energy to exist and one where it wasn't fired thus mega and infinity energy didn't exist.

 

[Kyzer]

Pokemon is like Adventure Time. Theres some deep continuity if you look for it.

 

[NeonZ]

I don't think Leaf is really "canon". She basically replaces Red if you chose her, and there's no alternate role for an npc Leaf or Red. Considering how Red is the only one that appeared in HG/SS, it leaves no space for Leaf.

As for Yellow vs Red/Blue, I'd go with Red/Blue. The big thing is that Yellow replaces all policemen with Officer Jenny from the anime, which clearly didn't stand in the games going forward.

If you wanna get even DEEPER... we technically have no idea about the happenings in Kanto at all since Gen VI because the Gen VI games (XY and ORAS) take place in a different dimension/universe. One could assume Gen VII is in this same universe, however Oak is outright mentioned and with the Ultra Beast dimensional portal shenanigans, Gen VII could take place in the original universe.

We've already seen Sycamore's assistants and they seem to have Mega Rings.

 

[Gengahrrr]

Pokemon Generations depicts Red as having captured Pikachu in Viridian Forest.

Not Red, "Trainer". That was supposed to be the player adventuring around all the regions.

 

[Ushojax]

No they did, Game Freak make a big deal about continuity, canon and Pokémon lore.

So the Hoenn in the remake is not the same one that exist in the original and they straight up split the Pokémon universe into two, one were the Kalos death cannon was fired causing mega and infinity energy to exist and one where it wasn't fired thus mega and infinity energy didn't exist.

 

[Kyzer]

Not Red, "Trainer". That was supposed to be the player adventuring around all the regions.

according to what?

not that generations or origins or the anime or anything else is canon anyways

 

[Hot Coldman]

Red's canonical collection in the RSE - BW2 timeline (seeing as he hasn't shown up in the Mega Evolution timeline) is:

- Bulbasaur -> Venusaur
- Charmander -> Charizard
- Squirtle -> Blastoise
- Pikachu
- Lapras
- Eevee ( -> any of the original 7 Eeveelutions)
- Omanyte/Kabuto
- Aerodactyl
- Togepi

 

[Forkball]

We've already seen Sycamore's assistants and they seem to have Mega Rings.

I forgot about that. A long shot, but perhaps they only appear in the post game AFTER a connection between universes are made and thus bring in Mega Evolution. If not, I bet there is still some plot point about a connection between the XY universe and the Gen I-V universe.

Pokemon lore makes Dark Souls look like a damn coloring book.

 

[R10Neymarfan]

according to what?

not that generations or origins or the anime or anything else is canon anyways

Generations/Origin is canon to the Mega evolution timeline theory

My theory is that there are multiple universes. But both are rooted in the Mega/Non-Mega pathline, then there's the anime pathline.

 

[superNESjoe]

OK see, alternate timelines and different dimensions? This is why people say Pokémon peaked at Gold and Silver, or why we have "GenWunners".

The Pokemon I know and love (or thought I knew) doesn't have a place for other dimensions, or Pokemon that are basically God. I have played every entry, and am getting Sun, but I don't even know what this franchise is anymore lol.

Gold and Silver are still the framework for how to do a sequel in this series. I still don't think they've ever topped that, both in game design and creature design. It just keeps getting crazier and crazier.

 

[Gengahrrr]

according to what?

not that generations or origins or the anime or anything else is canon anyways

Watch the start screen for Ep. 1. The trainer's name is literally Trainer. It's supposed to be a generic avatar for the viewer.

 

[ash_ag]

A few questions about the Pokemon canon:

1. How does Nintendo explain the fact that two boys, both the same age, living in a tiny little town just so happen to be named after the colors Red and Blue? My head canon was always that their mothers were best friends who got pregnant around the same time and thought it'd be cute to name their kids this way.

2. Is Pokemon Yellow the canon game of R/B/FR/LG.Y? As in, Red receives a Pikachu and Blue receives an Eevee? Or am I messing this up with the anime?

3. Additionally, is Leaf canon in the Pokemon continuity, or is she just a female avatar for the sake of inclusion?

1. They were meant to be called Satoshi and Shigeru originally, ie. Ash and Gary. The change was likely made because the anime characters became much more popular. It doesn't really matter anyway. Everything that concerns the player character is left deliberately ambiguous.

2. Pokémon's canon is Schröndiger's cat. It's a fluid structure where many possibilities coexist, and none is more prevalent than the other until observed.

It's a matter of what they want to do on each specific moment. Certain interpretations show Red with Bulbasaur, others with Charmander, others with Pikachu. Believe it or not, he's even been presented with Squirtle. When past stories need to be referenced in new games, elements are often combined or left ambiguous, as in the case of Red in Mt. Silver. Point is: among alternate versions of the same story, there is none that is more or less canon. Don't be surprised if distinct Emerald story elements are referenced in a future game, while still maintaining the ORAS version of the story in a different context.

3. There's no real answer to this, but if you want to get deep, there are two cases that suggest the former. One is the image you posted, which is Leaf's first appearance ever. The other is her appearance in the comic that came with Pokémon Craft DX, an old papercraft book by Emiko Yoshino:

It's also known that Sugimori loves to draw her. There are a few artworks of her in odd situations, such as a winter scene along with Combusken. There's no reason to assume she doesn't "exist". It's a question of what her story is, not unlike Hilda and Rosa, who only make a short appearance in Battle Subway (as well as the B2W2 Trailer in Rosa's case).

A more interesting conversation could be made about the Kris vs Lyra case.

 

[MrChocolate]

OK see, alternate timelines and different dimensions? This is why people say Pokémon peaked at Gold and Silver, or why we have "GenWunners".

The Pokemon I know and love (or thought I knew) doesn't have a place for other dimensions, or Pokemon that are basically God. I have played every entry, and am getting Sun, but I don't even know what this franchise is anymore lol.

Gold and Silver are still the framework for how to do a sequel in this series. I still don't think they've ever topped that, both in game design and creature design. It just keeps getting crazier and crazier.

I tried to look for any lies in your post, yet, I didn't find any.
Godspeed my friend.

In my mind, Yellow is canon (gamewise). That Red battle in GSC will never be topped.

 

[Jorok Goldblade]

The names aren't necessarily canon.

If you played Red or Yellow version, your non-custom name choices were

Red, Ash, Jack. "Ash" was instead Satoshi in the Japanese version. All other languages replaced Jack with its regional equivalent.

In Blue, the choices were

Blue, Gary, John. "Gary" was replaced with Shigeru in the Japanese version. All other languages replaced John with its regional equivalent.

 

[Shanlei91]

The bigger leap is how these two 10 year olds from the same sleepy town happen to be the two strongest trainers in the Kanto region.

 

[wrowa]

I had no idea that the Pokemon timeline is even more messed up than Zelda's.

 

[MogCakes]

My head canon was always that their mothers were best friends who got pregnant around the same time
[/IMG]

Sounds like a porno

 

[Lights and Waves]

Sounds like a porno

 

[ash_ag]

If you wanna get even DEEPER... we technically have no idea about the happenings in Kanto at all since Gen VI because the Gen VI games (XY and ORAS) take place in a different dimension/universe. One could assume Gen VII is in this same universe, however Oak is outright mentioned and with the Ultra Beast dimensional portal shenanigans, Gen VII could take place in the original universe.

It's wrong to say that XY/ORAS "universe" is a separate single thing from the previous games, considering not even them take place in a single "universe". Compare the way Dark- and Steel-type are treated between GSC and HGSS for example, or even the minor differences between RGBY and FRLG. Heck, even among same-generation games, like Black and White, or Ruby, Sapphire and Emerald you technically have parallel universes.

Mega Evolution is just one element to distinct games through, but there are others. Do XY happen after the Reshiram story, or do they happen after the Zekrom story? Are Black and White themselves after Groudon, Kyogre, Groudon vs. Kyogre vs. Rayquaza, Primal Groudon, or Primal Kyogre? ORAS referenced the idea of alternate universes in-canon for the first time (second, actually), but that doesn't mean that there are two universes, or even that there only two universes.

For most intents and purposes, it suffices to say that there is one Pokémon universe the majority of whose events we know exactly as presented in the games. And the events determined by player's choices / version differences are the only ambiguous ones.

Again, the Pokémon canon is Schröndiger's cat.

 

[superNESjoe]

Oak's no joke.

 

[CloudWolf]

Pokemon is like Adventure Time. Theres some deep continuity if you look for it.

I wonder how war looks in Pokémon because an Alakazam or even a Drowzee could probably wipe an entire army. Lt. Surge mentions a war in the early games so that would mean that there was a war not that long before Red/Blue starts.

 

[Koppai]

She's (Real name Blue, changed to Green in US) in the Pokémon Adventures Manga. But in this recent Generations short Red chose Charmander and Blue (AKA Green) chose Squirtle.

 

[Crayolan]

A few questions about the Pokemon canon:

1. How does Nintendo explain the fact that two boys, both the same age, living in a tiny little town just so happen to be named after the colors Red and Blue? My head canon was always that their mothers were best friends who got pregnant around the same time and thought it'd be cute to name their kids this way.

There is no explanation. Maybe cause they live in "Pallet" Town.

2. Is Pokemon Yellow the canon game of R/B/FR/LG.Y? As in, Red receives a Pikachu and Blue receives an Eevee? Or am I messing this up with the anime?

Yellow is not canon. Also I'm pretty sure RBG have been replaced by FRLG in terms of canon. Red presumably got one of the OG 3 starters (doesn't matter which one), then caught a Pikachu in Viridian Forest and somehow got his hands on the other two later.

Blue doesn't have an eevee in any game other than Yellow (and the anime, which is a separate canon to the games). In all games after gen 1 he uses his Red/Blue team minus the starter, with a few additions here and there.

3. Additionally, is Leaf canon in the Pokemon continuity, or is she just a female avatar for the sake of inclusion?

It's vague. She probably exists as some other kid who also grew up in Pallet Town, but canonically Red is the one who enacts the events of the Kanto games.

.

 

[DylanEno]

Man, I love both Green and Leaf's design. So much better than Crystal's.

 

[Kyzer]

I like how from gen 3 onward the female is more important as a protag

 

[GAMEPROFF]

Wait, what? We know what happened to Kanto (and Jotho?!?) after Gen II? Can someone explain to me what? Always thought they just abonded these areas.

 

[MogCakes]

Wait, what? We know what happened to Kanto (and Jotho?!?) after Gen II? Can someone explain to me what? Always thought they just abonded these areas.

New gym leaders are in place as of gen. V, evidenced by Natsume becoming a movie star. Would be interesting to see how the region has changed in a new game.

 

[Lucky Seven]

What's canon is what is in the games. Although, some things sort of conflict as of XY IIRC. So, i'll just go by what I remember because my knowledge of Pokemon lore is shaky after Gen 6. Red has his team of giftmons and starters. He's known to have traveled at least to Kanto, Johto, the islands, and Unova. Blue, well, I don't know where else he has besides the places Red has but I have heard that he goes to Kalos as well. You sort have to pick and choose... make a headcanon. Their teams are a tossup, but their existence and their travels established AFAIK.