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[capitalCORN]

The post you made is your idea of awareness?


I understand the issue, I'm just not going to listen to loaded language that only exists to fold into other narratives.

Look at my post. I made solid effort to post all material I could find on all my network feeds. I even provided a monetary donation for whatever legals efforts were and are going to be necessary. The fact I only managed, through all my social media efforts, one single retweet, and one from a random stranger, is sad. But I made the effort I could with the opportunities and resources I have.

 

[Alligatorjandro]

America is really a bunch of bullshit if you think about it

 

[jett]

She's extremely lucky her opponent is Trump.

Indeed.

 

[H.Cornerstone]

This reminds me if this story in Arizona in which Native Americans had no water due to leaks from mines.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_571a6c52e4b0d912d5fe8816

 

[Media]

http://usuncut.com/news/amnesty-int...ervers-north-dakota-protect-water-protectors/

Amnesty International has sent observers to the protest.

 

[HalfBakedProphet]

This is awful.

Unrelated but semi-related: I work for a water utility. The other year, we snaked a water line under a rather large river using directional drilling. ...It leaked like a sonofabitch immediately. And this is oil.

Which brings up something that can't be mentioned enough. The pipeline was originally going to run near Bismarck but was moved due to fears of what a oil spill would do to the local water supply.

http://bismarcktribune.com/news/sta...cle_64d053e4-8a1a-5198-a1dd-498d386c933c.html

An early proposal for the Dakota Access Pipeline called for the project to cross the Missouri River north of Bismarck, but one reason that route was rejected was its potential threat to Bismarck’s water supply, documents show.

I understand the issue, but it is privately owned land.

land that was taken from the tribe in 1958.

http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/a-pipeline-fight-and-americas-dark-past

That won't stop the "interesting" bunch of posters in this thread perpetuating a certain narrative about America.

Do you have anymore "interesting" meta commentary you'd like to share? It is "super" "insightful" and not at all off topic

 

[Puck Beaverton]

One day this country will care about its Native American population.

 

[capitalCORN]

One day this country will care about its Native American population.

Essentially when they're extinct. Then people will take a day off in their honour.

 

[Boney]

One day this country will care about its Native American population.

In another 400 hundred years maybe.

 

[KingK]

I understand the issue, but it is privately owned land. That won't stop the "interesting" bunch of posters in this thread perpetuating a certain narrative about America.

Isn't it actually the Natives' land according to a treaty the US government signed? I was under the impression it had been illegally sold as private property at some point (because it's not like the government ever gave a shit about honoring their treaties with the native people), but that it's technically Native land.

I mean, even if it wasn't that wouldn't excuse the heavy handed tactics law enforcement is using, but the fact that it's essentially a forcible invasion of sovereign territory in the name of corporate interests is absolutely deplorable.

As someone who stays pretty up to date on the news, I'm shocked at how little I've heard of this and how hard it is to find any information about it, even after deliberately searching for it. Like I can't find any articles giving any sort of detailed context or background to this.

 

[Shadybiz]

Which brings up something that can't be mentioned enough. The pipeline was originally going to run near Bismarck but was moved due to fears of what a oil spill would do to the local water supply.

http://bismarcktribune.com/news/sta...cle_64d053e4-8a1a-5198-a1dd-498d386c933c.html

Oh HO! I didn't know about that. So basically, "Yeah it's too high risk for this area, but we'll put it near you fuckers so we don't have to worry about the potential consequences." Fucking beautiful. Christ.

 

[Jeb]

Its stuff like this is why I find the excitement over americans political system odd.

There is a ton of hype for Obama, hype for Hilary, but when corporates fuck you over like this, or the TPP, or the financial crisis, these people will not act on protect your interests, instead, they will act on the interests of the already rich and powerful.

How do you guys still feel involved after incidents like this?

 

[kame-sennin]

I understand the issue, but it is privately owned land. That won't stop the "interesting" bunch of posters in this thread perpetuating a certain narrative about America.

there it is

This is just shitposting. You're adding nothing to the discussion.

It's treaty land. It was sold without permission.

Alphadump is not coming back this thread.

Nevermind that the idea of Native Americans trespassing anywhere in the continental U.S. is a bit bizarre.

 

[Moonkid]

The fact that indigenous people continue to be treated this way in goddamn 2016 demonstrates how colonial fuckery persists. Someone needs to call out Hillary on this, hard.

 

[Joeku]

I understand the issue, but it is privately owned land. That won't stop the "interesting" bunch of posters in this thread perpetuating a certain narrative about America.

If the narrative you're arguing against is that this continent was beaten and stolen from a native population, and anything infringing on what little remaining land they have is bad, you can go fuck the imperialism you represent and fuck yourself too.

America was born via exclusivism, and if this current election tells me anything, it's that that idea persists today. Fuck that noise, and fuck the idea that arguing for the land rights of a conquered nation is quote unquote interesting.

"People are fighting against the continual treading on the downtrodden? Heh, that's interesting."

 

[dabig2]

America is really a bunch of bullshit if you think about it

It always has been. On one hand, America prides itself on being the most free country in the world that gives peace, prosperity, and happiness to all of its citizens. On the other, this country was built on the backs of slavery and genocide. And to this day we're still dealing with systematic oppression.

Motherfuckers in this country care more about showing meaningless empty respect for the flag before sports games than respecting the rights of human beings, particularly in this case the rights of a group of people who have historically been spat on and systematically murdered and impoverished for centuries.

Fuck this country.

 

[AlphaDump]

This is just shitposting. You're adding nothing to the discussion.



Alphadump is not coming back this thread.

Nevermind that the idea of Native Americans trespassing anywhere in the continental U.S. is a bit bizarre.

Yes he is. I have no ego here, I just don't appreciate people attributing the US as some police state and then saying fuck America.

I read up on it more because I was ignorant on the subject. Let me see if I get this right...

The Army Core of Engineers was supposed to go around making specific deals with the tribes around the area to obtain the land. They put money on the table and this tribe hasn't accepted the money.

In addition, the pipe was moved because of fears for a spill at a different location, so it was moved to the more remote location, just at the north end tip of the tribe's location.

I understand the facts now, and I understand their frustration. The pipeline is just above their tribe, so it doesn't go directly through it. The concern is the pollutants coming in from an error in the construction going under the river, also just north of the tribe. So the concern is over polluted water, not their land, which I think is valid, especially considering the pipeline moved to that location for the same concern.


I also still don't know the facts behind the proposed agreement from the Army Core of Engineers and if the tribe walked away, or where the actual physical border of the treaty resides. I just know the pipe doesn't hit the tribe full on, so I have no idea if it is private property or not.

 

[Joeku]

Yes he is. I have no ego here, I just don't appreciate people attributing the US as some police state and then saying fuck America.

I read up on it more because I was ignorant on the subject. Let me see if I get this right...

The Army Core of Engineers was supposed to go around making specific deals with the tribes. They put money on the table and the tribe hasn't accepted the money.

In addition, the pipe was moved because of fears for a spill at a different location, so it was moved to the more remote location, just at the north end tip of the tribe's location.

I understand the facts now, and I understand their frustration. The pipeline is just above their tribe, so it doesn't go directly through it. The concern is the pollutants coming in from an error in the construction going under the review, also just north of the tribe. So the concern is over polluted water, not their land, which I think is valid, especially considering they moved to that location for the same concern.


I also still don't know the facts behind the proposed agreement that Army Core and if the tribe walked away, or where the actual physical border of the treaty resides. I just know the pipe doesn't hit the tribe full on, so I have no idea if it is private property or not.

Where did the accusation of "interesting" posters come from?

 

[capitalCORN]

Yes he is. I have no ego here, I just don't appreciate people attributing the US as some police state and then saying fuck America.

I read up on it more because I was ignorant on the subject. Let me see if I get this right...

The Army Core of Engineers was supposed to go around making specific deals with the tribes. They put money on the table and the tribe hasn't accepted the money.

In addition, the pipe was moved because of fears for a spill at a different location, so it was moved to the more remote location, just at the north end tip of the tribe's location.

I understand the facts now, and I understand their frustration. The pipeline is just above their tribe, so it doesn't go directly through it. The concern is the pollutants coming in from an error in the construction going under the review, also just north of the tribe. So the concern is over polluted water, not their land, which I think is valid, especially considering they moved to that location for the same concern.


I also still don't know the facts behind the proposed agreement that Army Core and if the tribe walked away, or where the actual physical border of the treaty resides. I just know the pipe doesn't hit the tribe full on, so I have no idea if it is private property or not.

I'll make this simpler. President Obama vocally ordered a stay on the project. Guess what happened. Absolutely no follow-through.

 

[AlphaDump]

I'll make this simpler. President Obama vocally ordered a stay on the project. Guess what happened. Absolutely no follow-through.

right, and my information implies that with the Army Core of Engineers proposal:

However, the Department of Justice, the Department of the Interior, and the Department of the Army were quick to overrule the decision of the court and placed a temporary halt on the construction of the Dakota Access pipeline. The Obama Administration released a statement regarding its support of the move and desire to not move forward until the Army “can determine whether it will need to reconsider any of its previous decisions regarding the Lake Oahe site under the National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA) or other federal laws.”

Therefore, construction of the pipeline on Army Corps land bordering or under Lake Oahe will not go forward at this time. The Army will move expeditiously to make this determination, as everyone involved — including the pipeline company and its workers — deserves a clear and timely resolution. In the interim, we request that the pipeline company voluntarily pause all construction activity within 20 miles east or west of Lake Oahe.”

Is the voluntary hold on private land, and the army core was wasn't?

It seems like the Army Core of Engineers didn't consider the tribe or thought they could buy them out.

 

[nelsonroyale]

This is reprehensible. The government are acting as the 'terrorists' on this occassion, backed by might is right. There are many empirical reasons why this pipeline shouldn't be happening, many social, historical and democratic reasons. The reason it should be going on his profit...for the company and its share holders. Not most of the people in the area. The fact that the US hasn't ever really come to terms with its native population is a massive failure of the state.

 

[capitalCORN]

right, and my information implies that with the Army Core of Engineers proposal:





Is the voluntary hold on private land, and the army core was wasn't?

It seems like the Army Core of Engineers didn't consider the tribe or thought they could buy them out.

Why does your argument hinge on the private land aspect? Numerous posts already mention it was treaty land until illegally taken during the 50's. Not to mention the audacity to claim private property to the people the west mercilessly slaughtered to 'claim' their own. Are you really going to sweep all that under the rug, just to make some spurious claim on 'legality'?

 

[ElectricThunder]

The story got a bit of a boost on Real Time with Bill Maher last night---but unfortunately the thread on it was lost at the speed of light on account to the fucking horserace chatter on Hillary and Trump. I'd especially hoped Michael Moore could get off the Clinton Panic Train for just 2 damned minutes to really steer the panel hard on it as per his prior bouts on Flint's communal poisoning. VICE News Nightly at 7:30PM EST on HBO has had multiple stories on it since it premiered a few weeks back as the story has unfolded---makes for one HELL of a parallel as they are running on Mosul and the like at about the same pace and presence, even within the same episode at times if memory serves though I missed this Thursday's episode and OnDemand is still stuck back on the 25th for some reason.

If you don't see this as plainly evil on the part of a good many folks at a good many levels, I don't even know what to tell you save you are already on a similar wavelength as the people actually carrying this out and might want to take a step back and examine the how and why you reckon what you reckon on authority, history, and what is held sacrosanct alongside some elementary empathy.

 

[AlphaDump]

Why does your argument hinge on the private land aspect? Numerous posts already mention it was treaty land until illegally taken during the 50's. Not to mention the audacity to claim private property to the people the west mercilessly slaughtered to 'claim' their own. Are you really going to sweep all that under the rug, just to make some spurious claim on 'legality'?

"The west mercilessly slaughtered" is certainly an interesting strawman to pull.

 

[capitalCORN]

"The west mercilessly slaughtered" is certainly an interesting strawman to pull.

You've really simply spent the vast portion of your time throwing out low key insults.Even your one attempt to discuss the matter was rather glib. Please, indulge me on your interpretation of events. I cannot understand your experience unless you share it with me.

 

[AlphaDump]

You've really simply spent the vast portion of your time throwing out low key insults.Even your one attempt to discuss the matter was rather glib. Please, indulge me on your interpretation of events. I cannot understand your experience unless you share it with me.

I agreed with you up until you started implying I'm cool with "the west" slaughtering native americans.

That is dishonest bullshit and tells me I'm wasting my time.

 

[capitalCORN]

I agreed with you up until you started implying I'm cool with "the west" slaughtering native americans.

That is dishonest bullshit and tells me I'm wasting my time.

You've made no real effort at effective discourse. I asked you to share your interpretation, Communication is the key to understanding. But you seemed to have given up before even getting started....

Edit: I've worn my heart on my sleeve this entire time. You've done no effort to reciprocate.

 

[Media]

I agreed with you up until you started implying I'm cool with "the west" slaughtering native americans.

That is dishonest bullshit and tells me I'm wasting my time.

Er, so the natives weren't wiped out by an invading force? I don't understand how you would say calling a genocide a slaughter is dishonest bullshit.

 

[USC-fan]

Which brings up something that can't be mentioned enough. The pipeline was originally going to run near Bismarck but was moved due to fears of what a oil spill would do to the local water supply.

http://bismarcktribune.com/news/sta...cle_64d053e4-8a1a-5198-a1dd-498d386c933c.html


land that was taken from the tribe in 1958.

http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/a-pipeline-fight-and-americas-dark-pastDo you have anymore "interesting" meta commentary you'd like to share? It is "super" "insightful" and not at all off topic

Yes and pipeline path had many changes because they met with everyone that came to the meetings. Guess what tribe didn't take part in anything.

You can't come in after years of planning done and land brought. Soon as construction started that when all this started.

Time for all this was years ago.

 

[pr0cs]

Time for all this was years ago.

Par for the course for these sort of protests. I'm mad as hell but when I had the opportunity to voice my concerns, to make myself heard I was "too busy" but I'm not too busy now to get in the way and cause irritation and potential other disasters (by sabotaging failsafes)
The lions share of these protestors don't have any good reason to be there.

 

[sasliquid]

Par for the course for these sort of protests. I'm mad as hell but when I had the opportunity to voice my concerns, to make myself heard I was "too busy" but I'm not too busy now to get in the way and cause irritation and potential other disasters (by sabotaging failsafes)
The lions share of these protestors don't have any good reason to be there.

Well climate change affects everyone so that's a good reason for anyone to protest

 

[M3d10n]

Yes and pipeline path had many changes because they met with everyone that came to the meetings. Guess what tribe didn't take part in anything.

You can't come in after years of planning done and land brought. Soon as construction started that when all this started.

Time for all this was years ago.

Isn't this how The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy starts?

 

[DedValve]

I don't know how anyone can claim neogaf is a mostly left leaning site, not when there is so many shit posts and even worse just all around horrible people in this very thread brushing it off.

There's so little awareness on this its depressing as hell. This cannot be defended.

 

[Sunster]

I don't know how anyone can claim neogaf is a mostly left leaning site, not when there is so many shit posts and even worse just all around horrible people in this very thread brushing it off.

There's so little information on this its depressing as hell. This cannot be defended.

The defenders of the helpless oil company.

 

[USC-fan]

Well climate change affects everyone so that's a good reason for anyone to protest

Well then you should be for the pipeline. Oil coming out the ground already. Pipeline or not that's not going to change.

Pipeline is so much better for the earth than the trains they are using now.

 

[commedieu]

The defenders of the helpless oil company.

Nah it's defenders of their world view.

Amnesty is stepping in to monitor, however our leaders and politicians are illustrating who runs things. People shouldn't have a pipeline put near their water supply, just in general. Not even if they didn't "show up." To the planning. oil companies don't give a shit about human beings.

I hope they continue to protest and sabotage this, as it's literally a matter of life and death for them, as it will inevitably fail and leak as these things do. The state does nothing to resolve poisoned water, just blame shifts.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Which brings up something that can't be mentioned enough. The pipeline was originally going to run near Bismarck but was moved due to fears of what a oil spill would do to the local water supply.

Holy shit... just another way to say "we don't give a shit about the stupid natives"

http://bismarcktribune.com/news/stat...d386c933c.html
land that was taken from the tribe in 1958.

But of course. This case just keeps getting even more scandalous.

 

[Onemic]

You must really like pipelines... or hate the Sioux

Like most people in the US, he doesnt give a shit about the indigenous populations in the states.

Makes sense when you consider the fact that a team with a name and blatantly racist masoct like the Indians are still a thing.

 

[Cuburt]

So as I understand it, this land was originally part of the treaty from the 1800s with the tribe. Over time, the treaty was violated and the property was sold and that is how it is part of the company. This is what I garnered from the NPR segment a couple days ago.

It sucks. The feds should step in and honor the treaty.

That's messed up and it seems like it's the authorities that are escalating the situation with their bully tactics.

The comparisons with the difference in treatment between this and the Bundy case is pretty apt.

 

[ElectricThunder]

In general, it is pretty fundamental thing beyond this false (far)left/right canard that it is universally a recipe for unsavory ends when a situation manifests that amounts to increasingly cornering a group of people, bonus points when it gets ethnic and the like. This might be a massively "far" left leaning board to some, but only if you maintained some sort of robust ignore list or have a mighty strange reckoning as to what such a thing would constitute especially here under the auspices of the US.

This is about history, The Establishment, and absolute human rights with an environmental chaser---climate change will exacerbate the divide between the have not and the have far in excess, so it is telling to see people scrambling to defend legal technicalities and engage in appeals to authority/big business/hegemony all but indistinguishable to invoking divinity as tied to some divine right of kings bullshit from back in the day. Make no mistake: This will happen again, elsewhere, and encroach upon the uninvolved* as new excuses get polished up like the turds they are time and again.

At this point, I worry more for the immediate safety of all the protestors involved and their people than the pipeline itself poisoning the water---but that's only because the powers that be seem to be only a degree or so removed of Otherization and flimsy justifications to go rather lethal....damn near chomping at the bit to do so even. Hell, I was pretty worried some of these assholes would start mowing down the bison out of sheer spite and waste after the fact.

They need organizational support from other, larger groups as the only means counter to this escalation---the will in the broader media isn't there to cover the plight of Native folks, political will pretty much mirrors the level of representation they have at the federal level save the like of Sanders. If I awoke tomorrow to find the whole thing had devolved to violence and/or a massacre, that would be depressingly less of a shock and more of a clear sign of how the table has been deliberately set as a harbinger of how the US aims to deal with their most vulnerable minority as disasters loom and they become the stress test/experimental group for the incoming status quo for "Management" policies to come.

As with too many things in this damn country, we've been kicking this can down the road for a long time instead of facing up to it all---running low on road as all these things come to a head.

 

[hokagespit]

they are sending troopers from here(ohio) to assist in protecting the pipe line
this is really fucked up
http://www.whio.com/news/crime--law/ohio-troopers-headed-pipeline-protest/VL0ZLYFviTQAqXvYJnVaKK/

 

[bishopcruz]

North Dakota pipeline activists say arrested protesters were kept in dog kennels



http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-north-dakota-pipeline-20161028-story.html

Um, that article makes it sound that they were put into holding cells. That headline is ridiculous.

I mean, let's consider this rationally. Why would they put them in dog kennels? How many dog kennels are big enough for people in the first place? Where would they GET the dog kennels? Is it standard procedure to put any criminal in a dog kennel, or were these protesters a special case? Did instead of going to the police station, they went to an animal shelter? How many dog kennels would you need to hold 100+ people? Why did the reporter of that story not even bother asking for a quote from the police on holding people in dog kennels? That would be national news no matter what.

None of it passes a smell test. Now, if we have images of people IN dog kennels, I am more than willing to admit I am wrong here. But I seriously doubt it. And yes, holding cells are awful, the one in the picture is likely more modern one, and I'd be surprised if the state police had a high class one.

 

[Madness]

they are sending troopers from here(ohio) to assist in protecting the pipe line
this is really fucked up
http://www.whio.com/news/crime--law/ohio-troopers-headed-pipeline-protest/VL0ZLYFviTQAqXvYJnVaKK/

Imagine what the first nations of the past are thinking. That they still have to watch their people brutalized on their own land by a "foreign" populace who is intent on bleeding every natural resource dry while polluting the shit out of and destroying the country. It is as if nothing has changed in 500 years.

 

[bishopcruz]

And hey, what do you know:

Morton County Sheriff's Office responds to reports of 'dog kennels' used to incarcerate protesters

"Temporary holding cells (chain link fences) have been installed into the Morton County Correctional Center and are used for “mass arrest” situations only. They are temporary until the Correctional Center can get them processed into our facility or transferred to another facility in North Dakota. The temporary housing units have been inspected and approved by the ND Department of Corrections which has oversight over all county correctional centers in ND. While there they have access to bathroom facilities, meals and drinking water. If any medical situations arise they are addressed by a medical or nursing staff on site. Morton County Correctional Center has room for only 42 inmates and during a mass arrest arrangements have been made to transport to other jails. When a person is arrested and arrives at the jail, trained staff conduct a visual assessment, are patted down when they are admitted and all items and property are collected and placed in a bag which is returned when they leave."

Pretty much what I thought.

 

[hokagespit]

Pretty much what I thought.

they arent providing a picture of them being held in these cages so idk why youd have more faith. the standards for what can be called holding cells can be awfully low here in america.

 

[bishopcruz]

they arent providing a picture of them being held in these cages so idk why youd have more faith. the standards for what can be called holding cells can be awfully low here in america.

Because it makes sense?

Holding cells suck, no one is denying this. However considering things like chains of custody, prisoner tracking systems with searchable databases, and the flat out massive, no wiggle room civil rights shitstorm that this would bring, I have a lot more faith that they were placed in holding cells then in dog kennels. Now, I'm not even saying that there aren't similarities between some holding cells and dog kennels but they are far from the same thing. When you make an absurd claim like "They were housed in dog kennels." you need serious evidence to back that up. The claim made by the police is not only far more plausible, but is standard procedure pretty much across the country.

 

[Madness]

Because it makes sense?

Holding cells suck, no one is denying this. However considering things like chains of custody, prisoner tracking systems with searchable databases, and the flat out massive, no wiggle room civil rights shitstorm that this would bring, I have a lot more faith that they were placed in holding cells then in dog kennels. Now, I'm not even saying that there aren't similarities between some holding cells and dog kennels. But when you make an absurd claim like "They were housed in dog kennels." you need serious evidence to back that up. The claim made by the police is not only far more plausible, but is standard procedure pretty much across the country.

You're right. This is the most pressing issue in the thread. That how dare people claim police are holding people in dog kennel cages when they are clearly regular ole sized holding cages which are standard. Thank you for calling it out and fixing it. Now that the mystery of whether they were dog kennels or holding cells is solved, we can get back to the story of Native Americans protesting the pillaging of their land and burial grounds and pristine environment by oil companies and being pepper sprayed, intimidated by dogs and put into HOLDING CELLS and discussing it.

 

[capitalCORN]

When you keep cutting corners, you'll have nothing left to hold.

 

[Zornack]

You're right. This is the most pressing issue in the thread. That how dare people claim police are holding people in dog kennel cages when they are clearly regular ole sized holding cages which are standard. Thank you for calling it out and fixing it. Now that the mystery of whether they were dog kennels or holding cells is solved, we can get back to the story of Native Americans protesting the pillaging of their land and burial grounds and pristine environment by oil companies and being pepper sprayed, intimidated by dogs and put into HOLDING CELLS and discussing it.

The land being worked doesn't belong to any tribe.

 

[capitalCORN]

The land being worked doesn't belong to any tribe.

It's been written on plenty of times in the thread. The land was 'reclaimed' from native hands in 1958.