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[FyreWulff]

I used to respect them, don't anymore. Co-worker who is deaf has been assaulted twice by police officers. Another co-worker is a retired cop. He can't stand his former police department. Half of them he said are veterans who shouldn't be involved at all with the police and he believes that's the underlining issue. Not sure if that's really the case but when you have a retired cop saying things like that I take notice

There's been plenty of ex-cops and even current ones that have said the phrase "the police should be trained on the west coast and the military in the east, because that's how far away they should be from each other".

Part of the problem is the police became military units, not public service units. I appreciate what soldiers do for us but military style organization and tactics should stay over in the military. Shit, some police departments have better materiel caches than the fucking local national guard outpost.

Of course, that's just one component. There's other huge issues, like how a lot of police departments either are heavily KKK/etc infiltrated or how some departments have been kept in white supremacist hands since the end of the Civil War, sometimes just via the Chief job being handed down through a family.

 

[Skux]

The fucking nerve of some of these quotes. It's like they don't even understand the problem.

 

[Tonedeff]

Respect is earned. Give it if you want to receive it.

This. Never liked motherfuckers, especially authority figures, who think they can just claim ownership of another motherfuckers respect. And the heat and their "No Matter What!" sympathizers are among the worst.

Now, if this animosity in Chicago is actually impeding police work, they might have something. I'm neither heartless, nor stupid. Seems to me that most of what's pissing him off is actually ordinary civies using new means to voice legit issues though. And if that's the case, dude can cry me a river.

 

[Ash Sparrow]

I try to take things on a person by person basis. So I have respect for you until you have personally done something bad in my eyes. I have seen people scream to a passing squad car "Fuck the police" I have also seen police ride around on a loud speakers saying HAHAHAH That's why Tupac just died.

 

[SaviourMK2]

You don't become a cop for the recognition, you don't become a cop for the paycheck, you don't become a cop to make friends. Law enforcement officers will always be looked badly at, this has NEVER been any different throughout the history of law enforcement.

You become an officer to help, serve and protect.

If you can't grasp this, then you have no right calling yourself a Police Officer.

 

[Furyous]

Shaq was kicked in the head by police officers, Freddie Gray was illegally arrested, and Sandra Bland was killed in police custody after begging them not to kill. I'm sorry that police are killing black people heinously and getting away with feigning ignorance as to why certain members of the black community do not trust them.

Would you trust police officers if:
The data shows they pull over black people far, far, far, more frequently than anyone else often for bullshit reasons.

Kill people for no reason and get away with it.

Use racist talking points to justify targeting your community as disguise for propping up the prison industrial complex.

 

[Mumei]

Let's fetch them a tiny violin so they can play a sad song.

Chicago Police Have Been Sabotaging Their Dash Cams

Last month the CPD found that 80 percent of its 850 dash cams do not record audio, and 12 percent don’t record video either. The CPD has blamed the failures on "operator error or in some cases intentional destruction," and a close reading of that review by DNAinfo Chicago reveals the extent of the latter. Officers frequently tampered with dash cams, stashing microphones in their glove boxes or pulling out batteries. Some dash cams were found with their antennae deliberately destroyed, and others had had their microphones removed altogether.

City fires investigator who found cops at fault in shooting

A Chicago investigator who determined that several civilian shootings by police officers were unjustified was fired after resisting orders to reverse those findings, according to internal records of his agency obtained by WBEZ.

[...]

Since its 2007 creation, IPRA has investigated nearly 400 civilian shootings by police and found one to be unjustified.

[...]

The performance evaluation covered 19 months and concluded that Davis “displays a complete lack of objectivity combined with a clear bias against the police in spite of his own lengthy police career.”

Chicago police unions fight to destroy decades of records

In October 2014, the union representing rank-and-file Chicago police officers sued the city to prevent the release of records more than four years old.

The suit by the Fraternal Order of Police, or FOP, argued that officers would face “public humiliation and loss of prestige in their employment” were those older records made public. The Chicago Police Benevolent and Protective Association, or PBPA, which represents higher-ranking officers, filed a separate, similar lawsuit.

The disappeared: Chicago police detain Americans at abuse-laden 'black site'

Tracy Siska, a criminologist and civil-rights activist with the Chicago Justice Project, said that Homan Square, as well as the unrelated case of ex-Guantánamo interrogator and retired Chicago detective Richard Zuley, showed the lines blurring between domestic law enforcement and overseas military operations.

“The real danger in allowing practices like Guantánamo or Abu Ghraib is the fact that they always creep into other aspects,” Siska said.

“They creep into domestic law enforcement, either with weaponry like with the militarization of police, or interrogation practices. That’s how we ended up with a black site in Chicago.”

More on that

Chicago police commander on trial for putting gun in suspect's mouth

Evans' defense attorney, Laura Morask, said Williams had originally named another officer, and that the case was "built on nothing." Morask said Williams showed no signs of injury to his mouth from the alleged assault.

Federal judge insists Chicago mayor testify about police code of silence

Civil rights attorney Flint Taylor told the Chicago Tribune the city’s new position on the code of silence was a “big deal”.

“We’ve been fighting for 25 years to establish that there is a code of silence,” Taylor said. “From time to time, we would get an individual cop or supervisor to admit it, but by and large it was denial, denial, denial.

“When it came up in court, they’d deny it in every form they could.”

Chicago does little to control police misconduct - or its costs

The City of Chicago spent more than $210 million for police misconduct lawsuits from 2012 to 2015, according to a Chicago Reporter analysis. It spent almost $53 million more on outside attorneys to litigate the cases. The Police Department exceeded its annual budget for lawsuits by almost $50 million, on average, in each of those years.

Yet, unlike some other major cities, Chicago doesn’t analyze the lawsuits for trends, identify the officers most frequently sued, or determine ways to reduce both the cost of the cases and officer misconduct.

Rather than rein in the practices that lead to these settlements, officials have borrowed millions to pay for police lawsuits, adding to the city’s crippling debt. Over time, the interest on the bonds will more than double the cost for police misconduct.

In oversight of Chicago police, IPRA gives victims false sense of justice

A Tribune investigation of nearly 700 complaints upheld by IPRA found the agency routinely obscured its findings and misled the public about how its investigations played out, often giving victims of police misconduct a false sense that they had prevailed and eroding the already fragile trust between the police and the community. Indeed, the agency's already low record of finding allegations credible — 3.8 percent of all cases closed by the end of last year — provides a skewed picture of its work.

Cops traded away pay for protection in police contracts

One product of that bargain between the city and the FOP has been a flawed system in which officers are rarely held accountable for misconduct. Indeed, since the dashcam video showing Laquan McDonald being shot 16 times and killed by Officer Jason Van Dyke was released in November, the city and Police Department have been roiled by protests over the failure to discipline officers, while a U.S. Department of Justice civil rights probe has been launched.

Amid the fallout, critics have zeroed in on the FOP contract and various rules that protect officers, and have called for a revamping. They have focused on a number of provisions, including one that allows officers to avoid making statements about shootings for at least 24 hours and another that requires internal investigators to notify officers of complainants' names before the officers are even questioned. Also at issue: a state law the FOP lobbied for that requires citizens to sign sworn affidavits to lodge an abuse complaint.

Police officer unions need to be broken.

 

[Matty77]

Kind of a tangent but I do find it funny how the police try to equate their lack of solving cases with victims staying silent (since when is it our job to solve their cases?) saying that the stop snitching culture is bad and harmful and anti police when anyone who has spent five seconds realize cops and the thin blue line( which they sadly but ironically fly like gang colors) is the most iron tight no snitching culture around, which pretty much makes those good cops people talk about ineffective at best eventually crooked themselves at worst.

 

[TrounceX]

Correct me if I'm wrong, because I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, but you're suggesting that generalizing police as undisciplined gangs is the same as generalizing people of color as hardened criminals? I'm just trying to make sure I understand what you're asking before giving my take.

The two are different for a lot of reasons, but here are the main points:

1. Police are police by choice, and so if they're unhappy with their characterization by the public, they're free to find work elsewhere and distance themselves from the situation completely. This is not the case with people of color.

2. Whereas it would be ridiculous to see every person of color as a representative of their race, this is literally what police are. They're at work, and that badge they wear means that they're representing their profession. Their actions can and should be used to judge the effectiveness and professionalism of their peers.

3. Police are in a position of authority, and it's their responsibility to use that authority towards the public's benefit. As private citizens with considerably less authority, people of color don't share that obligation.

Again, I think you could continue along that line of thought, but I hope this makes it clear.

I actually wasn't thinking along those lines, but thank you for the serious response and for not taking a condescending attitude. Good points as well. More on GAF could aspire to this level of discourse imo. (I know a lot of you already do)

So actually I am in agreement with most in this thread, contrary to what a few of you immediately assumed. I think that police brutality is institutionalized and more or less touches everyone within that system. Police should be held to a higher standard than regular civilians , and I think it's shameless they are trying to pull the victim card here after everything that's happened. It's a problem that needs to be talked about. There's enough data and evidence here to take the argument to a higher level than simply individual merit.

That said, I also think that there is equally damning evidence regarding other topics which have become socially untouchable, where we can't even speak honestly about the issue deep enough to generalize, lest you be called a bigot, racist, sexist etc etc.

Nobody else finds it curious how easily we are able to have this discussion in comparison to others? This type of logical inconsistency always jumps out to me.

 

[Nikodemos]

Police officer unions need to be broken.

Never understood the point of public servant unions.

Private labourers' unions emerged because no single working wo/man has the power of a captain of industry. Therefore, they must leverage their one strength, their numbers, to bring the corporation to the bargaining table.

By contrast, public servants are voting citizens. They have the right of assembly and the right of lobby. They already influence policy in their city, and even state.

 

[lightskintwin]

That said, I also think that there is equally damning evidence regarding other topics which have become socially untouchable, where we can't even speak honestly about the issue deep enough to generalize, lest you be called a bigot, racist, sexist etc etc.

Nobody else finds it curious how easily we are able to have this discussion in comparison to others? This type of logical inconsistency always jumps out to me.

Go ahead and get it off your chest, "the Blacks" are criminals.

 

[A.edrerai]

Never understood the point of public servant unions.

Private labourers' unions emerged because no single working wo/man has the power of a captain of industry. Therefore, they must leverage their one strength, their numbers, to bring the corporation to the bargaining table.

By contrast, public servants are voting citizens. They have the right of assembly and the right of lobby. They already influence policy in their city, and even state.

Under the law, are the police officers in America servants? This is a serious question.

 

[Christine]

This doesn't seem like a particularly surprising disconnect. The people who take leadership roles in unions and fraternal orders tend to believe that the social role and purpose of policing ought to command respect in itself. They also tend to believe that the citizenry are not equipped to properly evaluate or criticize the particulars of how the policing is done--or even that it is simply not the public's place to make that criticism!

On the other hand, you have a population less and less likely to perceive policing as an honorable profession, because they don't feel that it's being done professionally or honorably.

Ultimately the onus is on the profession to regain the public's trust and respect. They don't have the luxury of feeling entitled to respect. It's the other way around--the public is entitled to good, professional policing irrespective of how they feel about the police.

 

[2real4tv]

Why would anyone want to be a cop these days?

Me these guys get full pesion after 20yrs I wish I have done this outta hs

 

[demon]

I just watched an episode of Frontline, I think called "Who Polices the Police", focusing on the Newark NJ police force. These cops act like they mean well, and then you watch them drive up to a guy who's literally just walking down the street, jump out of their car, throw him to the ground and put him in handcuffs because of the way he reacted to the cops approaching him...which as you could see in the footage was literally just standing there. They justified it by saying he stepped backwards as they approached him or some bullshit which made him look "suspicious", but if that is the kind of interaction black people in poor neighborhoods have with the police it's no fucking wonder they don't trust them or have respect for them. There needs to be a fundamental change in the way police interact with people, particularly poor minorities, if they want their respect and trust.

 

[Mumei]

I just watched an episode of Frontline, I think called "Who Polices the Police", focusing on the Newark NJ police force. These cops act like they mean well, and then you watch them drive up to a guy who's literally just walking down the street, jump out of their car, throw him to the ground and put him in handcuffs because of the way he reacted to the cops approaching him...which as you could see in the footage was literally just standing there. They justified it by saying he stepped backwards as they approached him or some bullshit which made him look "suspicious", but if that is the kind of interaction black people in poor neighborhoods have with the police it's no fucking wonder they don't trust them or have respect for them. There needs to be a fundamental change in the way police interact with people, particularly poor minorities, if they want their respect and trust.

Policing the Police!

 

[reggieandTFE]

This is a funny thread to see pop up today. I was driving home North on Racine near Roosevelt. A giant black BMW SUV tried to use a gap in the parking lane to pass the traffic. She didn't get in front of me. Afterwards, I could see her flick me off, take a picture of my license plate and just keep freaking out. Later, she tried passing again but got stuck by traffic and I laughed at her. She followed me in front of my building, at which I didn't stop, because this lady seemed unhinged. She pulled along side in an aggressive move and screamed, "mother fucker, blah, blah, (unintelligible)". I said," Have a nice day," and waved exeraggatedly at her.

She responded by saying, "I'm an undercover cop and going to lock you up, motherfucker," before speeding off. CPD, folks.

 

[Elaugaufein]

Never understood the point of public servant unions.

Private labourers' unions emerged because no single working wo/man has the power of a captain of industry. Therefore, they must leverage their one strength, their numbers, to bring the corporation to the bargaining table.

By contrast, public servants are voting citizens. They have the right of assembly and the right of lobby. They already influence policy in their city, and even state.

In modern society where states are run much like businesses and people would like a tax cut and full public services , public servants are employment wise in a similar position to private employees only replace captain of industry with the state. There's only a handful of public servants the public will go to bat for even if it means paying more: police are still one to some extent, healthcare is another , fire brigade, military (absent highly unpopular wars) and often teachers. The public doesn't care if the taxation office employees are properly remunerated.

 

[Beerman462]

It's a 2 way street. Respect begets respect.

 

[kame-sennin]

Maybe police should stop obliging their bad apples and people will start to trust them again.

I know this is the first post but, there are no fucking good apples in the Chicago PD!!!

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

Disrespect? That's not how you spell scrutiny.

 

[kame-sennin]

Because it's hard,

No it isn't.

not a lot of people will like or respect you for it,

Nor should they.

but it has to be done,

No it doesn't.

and you have a chance of making a positive difference

No you don't.

protecting and serving your community.

That's not what cops do.

 

[TAJ]

The 'bad apple' cliche is misused as often as police power.

 

[msv]

Ultimately the onus is on the profession to regain the public's trust and respect. They don't have the luxury of feeling entitled to respect. It's the other way around--the public is entitled to good, professional policing irrespective of how they feel about the police.

No, when an organization is this clearly rotten to the core, the onus is on the public / government as a whole to dismantle it. Law enforcement and adjacent judicial systems are clearly out of order and need to be corrected from the outside. This is not about trust and respect anymore, this is about fixing enormous flaws in the system and bringing people to justice.

 

[pacificrex]

The answer is to get rid of cops. It's the only way to solve the crime problem in our communities.

 

[Messofanego]

Let's fetch them a tiny violin so they can play a sad song.

Chicago Police Have Been Sabotaging Their Dash Cams



City fires investigator who found cops at fault in shooting



Chicago police unions fight to destroy decades of records




The disappeared: Chicago police detain Americans at abuse-laden 'black site'



More on that

Chicago police commander on trial for putting gun in suspect's mouth



Federal judge insists Chicago mayor testify about police code of silence



Chicago does little to control police misconduct - or its costs



In oversight of Chicago police, IPRA gives victims false sense of justice



Cops traded away pay for protection in police contracts



Police officer unions need to be broken.

Chicago police rotten on every level.

This is a funny thread to see pop up today. I was driving home North on Racine near Roosevelt. A giant black BMW SUV tried to use a gap in the parking lane to pass the traffic. She didn't get in front of me. Afterwards, I could see her flick me off, take a picture of my license plate and just keep freaking out. Later, she tried passing again but got stuck by traffic and I laughed at her. She followed me in front of my building, at which I didn't stop, because this lady seemed unhinged. She pulled along side in an aggressive move and screamed, "mother fucker, blah, blah, (unintelligible)". I said," Have a nice day," and waved exeraggatedly at her.

She responded by saying, "I'm an undercover cop and going to lock you up, motherfucker," before speeding off. CPD, folks.

She sounds deranged, but I wouldn't be surprised if she was an actual cop.

 

[gohepcat]

These threads are always so weird because there's such a large number of people who seem to go so far off the rails with the idea that the whole concept of a police force is crazy.

Do none of you have any friends or family who are in law enforcement?

There's nothing more disturbing than seeing someone in a position of power abuse that power and recklessly take a life. These are people who I've entrusted to keep my fellow human beings safe.

How do we fix this problem? If you are "against police" what structure should there be in place to enforce laws? if someone kills my family member, Or draws a weapon at a place of business and start shooting everyone, what system is in place to stop that person? Who shows up to stop that person?

 

[The Giant]

No shit that no one has respect for American cops. I know a few aussie cops who consider American cops a complete joke and disgraceful to the badge.

 

[excelsiorlef]

So fun fact about that O'Nealarrest in the OP.

Not only was he re-arrested but when they did re-arrest him they got to add more resisting arrest charges and what not to this sheet. Letting him go just gave them an excuse to rack up more charges on the guy because.

So they beat him, charged him, let him go and then re-arrested him and added more charges based off what happened at the second arrest. He'd have been better off if they just booked him after the first arrest.

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

But how many of those "assaults" are actually assaults?

So many cops fabricate stories, so why should we even believe the validity of this statistic anyway?

 

[Darksol]

At least you can't die from disrespect.

 

[SomedayTheFire]

boo hoo

 

[Khoryos]

Wasn't it Chicago PD that were operating their very own black site?

Because that would be a very good reason to disrespect any organisation, let alone theoretical public servants.

 

[Nikodemos]

Wasn't it Chicago PD that were operating their very own black site?

Because that would be a very good reason to disrespect any organisation, let alone theoretical public servants.

You misspelled 'disband'.

 

[Viewt]

Wasn't it Chicago PD that were operating their very own black site?

Because that would be a very good reason to disrespect any organisation, let alone theoretical public servants.

There was a brief uproar after The Guardian's article came out, but it came and went pretty quickly, and there's a sizable group that doesn't even think it's real, and if they do, they don't mind it. The apathy is seriously entrenched within certain demographics in this city.

 

[lightskintwin]

There was a brief uproar after The Guardian's article came out, but it came and went pretty quickly, and there's a sizable group that doesn't even think it's real, and if they do, they don't mind it. The apathy is seriously entrenched within certain demographics in this city.

Police have been disproportionately criminalizing, policing, and infringing upon rights in black neighborhoods ever since Reconstruction. It's working as intended.

 

[Viewt]

Police have been disproportionately criminalizing, policing, and infringing upon rights in black neighborhoods ever since Reconstruction. It's working as intended.

Yep, it's incredibly depressing. We're probably going to hit 700 homicides for the year, and I don't even want to think about how many of them are going to be coming from this upcoming weekend.

The city desperately needs a competent, compassionate, community-focused police force, but that's really only part of the problem. The other is that, at some point, the north side of the city is going to have to reckon with the fact that it's left large swaths of the south and west sides to die, and it's going to take decades to revive them. And while we debate on the whys and what-ifs, regular people are getting it from both ends - from the crime that stretches across their block to police officers who just make the situation more hostile and tense.

It starts to feel hopeless, and that's where the apathy sets in.

 

[many places]

Awww poor cops


boo hoo

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

If you are "against police" what structure should there be in place to enforce laws? if someone kills my family member, Or draws a weapon at a place of business and start shooting everyone, what system is in place to stop that person? Who shows up to stop that person?

When do cops show up to stop situations like that? You have to be lucky for that, like having a doctor around when someone has a heart attack.

More often, cops just show up afterward to intimidate and interrogate whoever saw a crime.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

According to Angelo, the "humanization of policing" is the untold story in the media. "We're human," he said. "We're just like everybody else."

#bluelivesmatter

 

[commedieu]

These threads are always so weird because there's such a large number of people who seem to go so far off the rails with the idea that the whole concept of a police force is crazy.

Do none of you have any friends or family who are in law enforcement?

There's nothing more disturbing than seeing someone in a position of power abuse that power and recklessly take a life. These are people who I've entrusted to keep my fellow human beings safe.

How do we fix this problem? If you are "against police" what structure should there be in place to enforce laws? if someone kills my family member, Or draws a weapon at a place of business and start shooting everyone, what system is in place to stop that person? Who shows up to stop that person?

"Against police" needs context. It simply means abusive behavior. Which you already agree is heinous. If police weren't assholes murdering everything in sight, or preventing "Good cops" from reporting bad ones, that would resolve itself. People, like myself, could give 2 shits about police as when you need them, they are late, then I end up getting questioned myself. On top of that, you're harassed around the clock for doing fuck all. Why do I want that in my life? If theres an emergency I'm calling the Fire Department. Mel Gibson is not a police officer, nor are police ready at the drop of a hat to respond to calls. Unless you live in 90210.

The system we have would be perfectly adequate if police didn't execute unarmed people, then have strong police unions to cover up for them.

We can't fix the problem of out of control mafia-esque police. Only the police can. Having friends and family in LEO means nothing. The police are the problem in the United States. Their image is created by their actions. Friends a sheriff, and father is retired lapd/judge. If I have to qualify for answering. The odd thing is that they too agree that shit is out of control, but from my fathers perspective, dealing with it from the inside, it has always been this way for minorities.

 

[Punchy4486]

Do none of you have any friends or family who are in law enforcement?

I have a number of family members who are in law enforcement. And I don't think any of them are the right kind of person to be law enforcement.

They're all either majorly aggressive assholes or have huge egos that get really pissed off if you don't appropriately respect them. And they were that way before they were officers too. Oh and most of them have admitted to doing unethical things or see unethical things from other cops and not seeing what the issue is. Oh and most of them have done really stupid and shitty things with their guns off duty.

I view cops like I view gun owners: the ones that are really obsessed and defensive and interested in the lifestyle are exactly the ones I think shouldn't be a part of that lifestyle.

 

[Already Torn]

I kind of hate the idea that you should respect a police officer just because of their job title. Same goes for doctors, military, and the like of course. If you do a good job people will support you, if you picked that job because you wanted unconditional respect then you picked it for the wrong reason and I don't care if I hurt your feelings you weirdo.

 

[Mumei]

I kind of hate the idea that you should respect a police officer just because of their job title. Same goes for doctors, military, and the like of course. If you do a good job people will support you, if you picked that job because you wanted unconditional respect then you picked it for the wrong reason and I don't care if I hurt your feelings you weirdo.

Right. And they aren't even talking about direct interactions with the police acting in a professional capacity - as opposed to saying hello in a line at the store, say - where I would agree that, sure, as a general rule you do have to give slightly more deference to an officer in that situation than to an ordinary person, but here they are just whining about people talking about them.

It's ridiculous.

 

[Triggerhappytel]

I kind of hate the idea that you should respect a police officer just because of their job title. Same goes for doctors, military, and the like of course. If you do a good job people will support you, if you picked that job because you wanted unconditional respect then you picked it for the wrong reason and I don't care if I hurt your feelings you weirdo.

I respect the police force here in the UK, as I've only had good experiences with them and one of my friend's husband is in an anti-terror organisation and I know he works damn hard. That being said, reading through this topic just makes the Chicago PD sound like a large-scale Government sanctioned criminal gang with zero accountability for their actions.

 

[timetokill]

These threads are always so weird because there's such a large number of people who seem to go so far off the rails with the idea that the whole concept of a police force is crazy.

Do none of you have any friends or family who are in law enforcement?

There's nothing more disturbing than seeing someone in a position of power abuse that power and recklessly take a life. These are people who I've entrusted to keep my fellow human beings safe.

How do we fix this problem? If you are "against police" what structure should there be in place to enforce laws? if someone kills my family member, Or draws a weapon at a place of business and start shooting everyone, what system is in place to stop that person? Who shows up to stop that person?

I have had several family members in law enforcement.

Ultimately the point is that we as a people deserve a better police force. I haven't seen many people say we shouldn't have police. What they're saying is that the police we have exacerbate problems, they don't solve them.