Oh, because does your job include talking down men with guns on a normal basis?
Police negotiate with drunk open carry white man who asked police to shoot him. No ch
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Oh, because does your job include talking down men with guns on a normal basis?
I think the other way around is the obvious ideal everyone are asking for.
It's kind of weird to get mad at someone *not* getting shot, but if you look at it in context, it's not weird to point it out as an example of the disparity in treatment.
kame-sennin
Member
Conscious folk in this thread; if in thread after thread after thread, you post mountains and mountains of data that proves - beyond any reasonable doubt - that institutional racism exists and is a major factor in American policing, how long will it take you to realize that the people asking you for proof of racism are just trolling? They don't want to engage you in a discussion. They are not interested in carefully considering the evidence to perhaps come to a different conclusion. They are fucking with you because they enjoy seeing you get upset, or because the notion that white privilege exists disrupts their worldview and causes mental discomfort. They didn't by chance, miss the last thirty threads where this issue was raised and clearly explained.
it's denial. plain and simple.
kame-sennin
Member
"I don't see color!"
"Because I don't have to."
Incorrect. He assaulted the officers when he hurled obscenities at them. Further, his obscene gestures could easily be viewed as having hostile intent. Finally, his multiple refusals to put down his weapon after being given a lawful order to do so might indicate that the man was planning on using deadly force against the officers.*
*I'm glad they didn't shoot him. I wish that type of courtesy and professionalism was given to people of color more often.
Is their a larger, more organized, better funded, and more powerful American gang that I'm not aware of?
I suppose that's a word for it, yes.
"Because I don't have to."
Incorrect. He assaulted the officers when he hurled obscenities at them. Further, his obscene gestures could easily be viewed as having hostile intent. Finally, his multiple refusals to put down his weapon after being given a lawful order to do so might indicate that the man was planning on using deadly force against the officers.*
*I'm glad they didn't shoot him. I wish that type of courtesy and professionalism was given to people of color more often.
Is their a larger, more organized, better funded, and more powerful American gang that I'm not aware of?
I suppose that's a word for it, yes.
ignorance is bliss .for now.
not everyone reads every thread or has been around on gaf, new threads get the same old posts because new people are reading them. it would certainly be a bit silly to start banning people for not knowing that some post in 2010 solved racism on gaf forever and to speak of it again is to incite the ban hammer.
Besides, singular posters who become know for harping on specific issues in every tenuously relevant thread do tend to have shorter shelf-lives.
"bad bad negro man. Your penis is way too large for my sub-conscience! Plus my light skinned wife and daughters all keep staring at your loins. Go, go pick cotton for me whilst I rape all of your negro females. Try and get this hate out of my system. GO!"
is that picture a nod to plato in the school of athens?
Racism threads are so frustrating, because people get divided up into us vs. them camps within a discussion thread. I wish we could have a conversation about racism in America without people talking past each other. I don't think it's appropriate to shit on the cop in this instance, because he handled a difficult situation very well. Sure it's his job, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't be praised. Cops, like teachers, are woefully underpaid for what their duty entails. That can have the effect of attracting the wrong type of people who see other benefits of being a cop (i.e. power). So I think praising a guy who is horribly underpaid for diffusing violent situations shouldn't be considered a bad thing. He is a standout among those in his profession. In an ideal world, he is the norm. But ideals don't exist, so I think it's best we positively reinforce good behavior.
Now, this doesn't mean I don't think instituional racism doesn't exist. In a repeatable hypothetical experiment with a black guy being in the same exact position of the white guy, if you could recreate this situation with each law enforcement officer in America, I think the situation with the black guy would statistically result in tragedy more often than if the experiment was done with the same white guy in the video.
However, my main issue with this thread is the "guilty until proven innocent" attitude taken towards the cop. This just seems like grasping at straws. This same sort of mentality is the same that a racist cop harbors when he uses excessive force on a black guy. The black guy is seen as guilty until proven innocent. I just think it's a dangerous mentality to harbor against any group of people.
Now, this doesn't mean I don't think instituional racism doesn't exist. In a repeatable hypothetical experiment with a black guy being in the same exact position of the white guy, if you could recreate this situation with each law enforcement officer in America, I think the situation with the black guy would statistically result in tragedy more often than if the experiment was done with the same white guy in the video.
However, my main issue with this thread is the "guilty until proven innocent" attitude taken towards the cop. This just seems like grasping at straws. This same sort of mentality is the same that a racist cop harbors when he uses excessive force on a black guy. The black guy is seen as guilty until proven innocent. I just think it's a dangerous mentality to harbor against any group of people.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Humanizing stare jokes already made?
What a shame.
At least this shows that the police can act like the guardians and upholders of the law they're supposed to be, they just need to do it with minorities as well.
What a shame.
At least this shows that the police can act like the guardians and upholders of the law they're supposed to be, they just need to do it with minorities as well.
kame-sennin
Member
No one's talking about bans.
We've had an overwhelming glut of these threads the last few months.
I recognize these characters.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
The truth is we don't know. The following article has a pretty good article about what we do and don't know.
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/08/3...-are-blacks-targeted-more.html?_r=0&referrer=
ha!
i'm always paying homage.
Schattenjäger
Gabriel Knight
They do do it with minorities
entremet
Member
The frustration with videos shown in the OP is not that all cops are racists. It has to do with the fact that minority males have much less leeway in dealing with cops as a whole.
We have stories of cops shooting a man carrying BB gun in a store, with video evidence showing he was non-threatening. Moreover, minority males are told that even a wrong stare could get them in trouble with law enforcement.
Look at the force used on Eric Garner and he was less of a threat than a drunk with a riffle. When you keep hearing about these kinds of stories and the only denominator is the race of the person, this is where you see the frustration.
This isn't new either. Police departments have targeted minority males since after Reconstruction. The black community's unease with police isn't a new thing.
We have stories of cops shooting a man carrying BB gun in a store, with video evidence showing he was non-threatening. Moreover, minority males are told that even a wrong stare could get them in trouble with law enforcement.
Look at the force used on Eric Garner and he was less of a threat than a drunk with a riffle. When you keep hearing about these kinds of stories and the only denominator is the race of the person, this is where you see the frustration.
This isn't new either. Police departments have targeted minority males since after Reconstruction. The black community's unease with police isn't a new thing.
You joking? Cops empty clips into black men who brandish something that they mistake for a gun. This guy is fucked up in the head, brandishing a fucking rifle, and not only do they not gun him down, they press no charges!?! They would not do that if it was a black guy.
Do you have any proof of that?
This particular state allows open carrying of weapons. Obviously the public is going to be concerned when they see someone with a gun, but that in itself is not breaking any laws. The only law broken was apparently jaywalking, which cops normally do not enforce.
The difference between this scenario and the one from the St Louis police killing the guy with a knife is that the guy that got shot had robbed a convenience store, and was taunting the store owner with a knife, and then the cops came to the scene. Upon seeing the police, the guy was aggressive pacing around saying "shoot me motherfucker" and the cops opened fire once he began to approach them.
In this case, the guy is some old drunk and never once pointed his weapons towards the officers. He even sat down and was talking back and forth with officers
The OJ case was a different kind of botch and you know it. The cops in that case went above and beyond to make OJ look guilty and fucked the case up. Not the same as the Zimmerman case where they helped the killer.
We have 435 years worth of proof. Keep burying your head in the sand though.
entremet
Member
To be fair, I think he's talking about those specific cops in the OP. He's right we don't have proof.
If you're talking about law enforcement as a whole, you do have a better case.
You do know that, that is not proof of how another officer will handle a situation, right?
I find this thread frustrating... It seems to me everyone is arguing things that the other side isn't even saying, so lets clear this up a bit from what I take on everyone's post:
1. No one in this thread has said that there wasn't a problem on an institutional level with how cops handle cases involving minorities.
2. All those saying that "he would have been turned into mincemeat" and using other scenarios (that isn't even similar) are arguing moot points, because of how different it is. It is impossible to know how this guy would of handled this if the guy was black now.
3. You CAN and should praise a person for doing his job in such a professional manner. Just because it is their job, doesn't mean they deserve no praise or will you shit on firefighters, soldiers, etc, for doing their job exceptionally well?
4. For those comparing the knife guy that got shot and this guy, please acknowledge the differences in each scenario: The guy that got shot, robbed a store, so the cops are responding more "hastily". He proceeds to move at them despite them yelling at him and then gets shot. Realize how dangerous a person with a knife can be. The guy in this scenario was not doing anything remotely serious, and he does have a right to carry, so no the cops couldn't charge him with anything else (except being drunk in public maybe).
5. Analogies need to be thought out more when using it.
6. There are hundreds of thousands of interactions between police and minorities each year, so why some of you feel threatened is odd to me (I am black and feel no threat from police officers). Any time I encountered one (and I have encountered plenty), they all done they're job professionally. U.S do not have a true credible statistic for anyone to use.. exception of maybe arrests. This is one an issue that needs to be addressed as well.
The issues is a little greater than just institutional racism of police departments, that puts minorities into these situations. Until all of those are addressed and it will take a long time to do so, this will continue to happen.
Thank you.
Bulbo Urethral Baggins
Banned
As a Michigander, I openly carried my whole life before I even knew what that meant. To have 30 police cars pull up on me and accuse me of jaywalking is almost unbelievable. Talk about a police state... Yet people are more concerned about the color of the guy's skin than his freedom. Wow.
His criteria
"This particular state allows open carrying of weapons." - Check
"not breaking any laws." - Check
not "pacing around saying "shoot me motherfucker"" - Check
not approaching them - Check
"never once pointed his weapons towards the officers." - Check
Read what I said over and over again until you actually comprehend it correctly.
EDIT: Maybe you just don't understand how you can not prove by using another scenario how another person would act if one thing in that scenario was different.
I don't give a shit what you said, my post was in reply to his.
Angry? lol
This is a forum where people are going to respond to you even if you are not directly talking to them just as you responded to him when he was replying to another poster. That still isn't the proof he was asking for, because it is very likely we will never know. Again, he was asking for proof that the cop(s) in this video would have treated it differently if the guy was black.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
I'm pretty sure it's both, Bulbo..
And I have no obligation to provide anything to those people. He asked for proof, outlined his criteria for proof, and that was the post I was responding to. I do not care what your criteria is, because I was not talking to you. And, as such, I have no need to understand what your post said, because I do not give a shit about what your post said, because I wasn't talking to you.
Yep, you're writing makes you sound annoyed. You can always just not respond instead, if you don't want to instead of going about it that way.
He asked for proof that those specific cops would act differently if the guy was black in response to the guy who said they would. This is very specific, I am not using my own criteria. It is something we all are not likely to be able to prove. On an institutional level, maybe, but not on this.
You do not have an obligation to provide proof, but if you choose to respond to him when he clearly asked for it, I would think it would be best to do so. I wouldn't respond to such a post if I can't post proof, but we are different people.
Again if you have no desire for discussion as you keep saying "you don't give a shit" about my post, then just don't reply.
Or confirmation bias, which is a powerful thing. A person inflicted by it can be presented with overwhelming evidence contrary to their beliefs for years and not interpret any of it the same way an objective person would. It's a fascinating thing to witness.
BPoole asked for proof, he then outlined many differences between an early scenario given and the one in this thread. He was clearly not asking "can you see inside these officer's minds?", he was asking for an accurately similar scenario where police acted differently with a minority.
If he were asking for the proof you think he was, his post would be entirely different.
This is a much better response, I can see what you both mean now. I think in general anyone making the statement BPoole was replying to, would be hard pressed to prove it though, if meant literally.
DragonSworne
Banned
I don't understand why these cops still have their jobs. They broke protocol and put the public in danger. Where is the outrage?
They should have opened fire on that guy and followed standard procedure and their training.
They should have opened fire on that guy and followed standard procedure and their training.
Coriolanus
Banned
You completely misunderstood what the people talking about police racism are actually discussing. Might wanna refrain from using adjectives that would be better applied to you.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Like a rap car!? Racist..
theignoramus
Member
Yessuh massa
Unbound By Death
Member
Police (meaning the institutions of law enforcement) use a disproportionate amount of force against minorities. This is a fact that has been proven numerous times in these discussion.
Freaky Fred
Banned
Sure, but that doesn't mean the outcome of every situation has something to do with race, I think that's what Sketchbag is trying to say
white guy gets shot by cops = cops are murderers
black guy gets shot by cops = cops are racist murderers
white guy doesn't get shot by cops = cops are racist because they only kill black people
am I understanding the discussion?
Then what Sketchbag is trying to say is irrelevant. Nobody needs to be reminded of that.
Freaky Fred
Banned
I think you're getting your stories mixed up. The article Adder posted was about a guy holding a toy gun (a gun walmart themselves sold) in walmart. A patron called the cops thinking it was a real gun. When the cops arrived at the scene with their weapons drawn he tried to explain to them that it was not a real gun. They shouted at him to get on the ground but he kept trying to explain it was a fake gun, so they shot.
and plus Ohio is an open carry state
Nah, we're not gonna clap like seals because some cops managed to not kill a white guy with a real weapon who could have actually killed himself or other people. We're gonna point out the statistically quantifiable probability that it would have turned out differently if it were a black dude. Take issue with that if you want. Not gonna stop doing it. Never. Never ever ever.
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