PoliGAF 2010: Home Of "By The Time I Get To Arizona"

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RustyNails said:
Netanyahu says FUCK YOU to America, says building in Jerusalem will continue.

This shit makes my blood boil with rage. What a deceitful, two-faced asshole who wants to appear friendly to US diplomats in front of cameras but behind their backs its business as usual. Take more Palestinian lands. Fuck you, Benjamin. Fucking criminal bastard.
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Not only that, but this statement is so deceitful:

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Monday said that Israel would continue to build in Jerusalem in the same way that it has over the last 42 years.

"The building in Jerusalem - and in all other places - will continue in the same way as has been customary over the last 42 years," said Netanyahu at a Likud party meeting.

Israel drew angry reactions from the U.S. and the Palestinians by announcing last week the construction of 1,600 new housing units in the East Jerusalem neighborhood of Ramat Shlomo during a visit by U.S. Vice President Joe Biden last week.

"For the past 40 years, no Israeli government ever limited construction in the neighborhoods of Jerusalem," he said in a speech to the Knesset, citing areas in the West Bank that Israel captured during the 1967 Six-Day War and annexed to the city.
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Notice how he says 'Jerusalem' instead of 'East Jerusalem'. It is the building in EAST Jerusalem that is what is so provocative and he is acting as if this is just another building any where in Jerusalem. Very very dishonest. All the idiots in America won't see the distinction and just back Israel 110% as usual. That is how much respect they give us . . . pulling flim-flam like that.
 
JoeBoy101 said:
Yes, it has been done before. Here's some examples from a Congressional Research Report in 2006

Now, look at those examples. They were done to modify the bill in question, not to get the original bill passed to the President without the amendment that was included.
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This is a distinction without a difference - the reconciliation bill is also "done to modify the bill in question" - the only difference is because of a quirk in Senate procedure regarding reconciliation, they get signed separately (between Senate action).

Question for the group: Say the House passes it like this, the president signs the original bill, and then the Senate fails to pass the amendment. The House members voted on a bill with the legal understanding that the amendment was included, and then the law passed with it not included. Doesn't that de-legitimize the House members' votes?
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The House is accustomed to bending over backward for the Senate, but that would take it to a new level. It's not going to happen, though.
empty vessel said:
It's not shocking. Nixon's administration was more liberal than both Clinton's and (now) Obama's. It's not that Nixon, himself, was more liberal than either Clinton or Obama. It's because there was a mass movement on the left to which politicians--Democratic and Republican--had to respond. It's no different from what is going on now, except the other way. Obama and the Democrats are responding to the right, where the organized and vocal pressure lies. The left needs to reorganize, mobilize, and make demands, and it needs to do so in a way that drowns the tea party movement.
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They do, but the influence of the GOP is institutionalized. A few weeks ago, a small gathering of tea partiers and a gathering of many thousands rallying for a public option occurred a few days apart. The former got non-stop coverage on all networks, the latter did not get a mention on most of them. This is one more reason why I don't think mass protest and rallying work, and why that kind of organization needs to focus on the specific removal of barriers, both institutional and in the party membership.
 
RustyNails said:
Eric Cantor is already one step ahead of you.



Where is the outrage when Fatah calls for riots on Temple Mount? More like outrage over Israel classifying two historic sites in occupied West Bank as national Israeli heritage sites. Eric Cantor can go get fucked too.
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You know I really want to know what would happen if the US suddenly dropped its Alliance with Isreal. We have the means to do so, and damn good reasons as well.
 
TacticalFox88 said:
You know I really want to know what would happen if the US suddenly dropped its Alliance with Isreal. We have the means to do so, and damn good reasons as well.
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AIPAC would declare war on the country and hang politicians for treason.

Xeke said:
It's been a while since we had a General become President, we need that again.
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And why would that be?
 
TacticalFox88 said:
You know I really want to know what would happen if the US suddenly dropped its Alliance with Isreal. We have the means to do so, and damn good reasons as well.
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hell-frozen-over.jpg
 
Israel is a spoiled, bratty child that gets away with far too much shit. Unfortunately, they'll continue to get away with being assholes, since both political parties trip over themselves to be the first ones to kiss Israeli ass. And the American public are too apathetic to learn about that region beyond what is said in the mainstream media, which undoubtedly tilts in Israel's favor.

There's also a religious component for our support for Israel as well. Can't have the rapture until all the Jews return to their home land :/
 
speculawyer said:
Not only that, but this statement is so deceitful:



Notice how he says 'Jerusalem' instead of 'East Jerusalem'. It is the building in EAST Jerusalem that is what is so provocative and he is acting as if this is just another building any where in Jerusalem. Very very dishonest. All the idiots in America won't see the distinction and just back Israel 110% as usual. That is how much respect they give us . . . pulling flim-flam like that.
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Netanyahu is a power grabbing idiot who's got himself stuck in a position where he can do little else. To become prime minister he had to kiss up to the far right, and to maintain that position he has to keep up that act. It's either he supports some of their policies or he's out of office.

My money's on him really not knowing about the housing debacle, with Lieberman, Yishai, and other far right characters he installed in his administration calling the shots. He's reduced himself to almost a figurehead with the deals he had to make.
 
Jason's Ultimatum said:
Wyden-Gregg on tax reform:



Hmm. Not really sure about this if everything else is constant. =\


EDIT-Ghal, so the unemployment benefit extension will be voted on next week and it'll be a year long extension?
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I would be generally supportive of flattening the existing tax brackets as seen here if additional brackets were added on top, say a 45% bracket for individual income over a million or something. In a similar vein, I have no problem with a low, flat corporate tax rate so long as there's a sizable hole in the bottom for small companies. Really I would say any corporation worth under a few million probably shouldn't be taxed as a corporation, and the tax rate on companies worth more than that should be kept fairly low to maximize competitiveness with foreign companies, and then made up for with the aforementioned tax hike on the new, high income individual brackets.
 
Obama heartbroken at the lack of a public option:

In a video conference with ABC News, the President lamented at the fact that the public option will not be included in the final health care legislation.

"I'm deeply, deeply disheartened that we weren't able to incorporate the public option into the final bill." said the president, desperately holding back laughter.

"No one is more disappointed at this turn of events than myself. I mean, no one fought harder than I did. From the campaign trail all the way up to some time last Summer, I've strongly advocated it. Now, it looks like it'll never ever happen."

Added the President, "Ever."

Plans to include a public option seemed to have been dashed last Friday, when House speaker Nancy Pelosi said that it lacked sufficient votes in the Senate.

"I'm afraid it's true. While the public option is wildly popular, significantly moreso than the current bill, or any individual provision in the bill for that matter, it just didn't seem realistic to include it. So while all this is completely Speaker Pelosi's fault, I understand why she did what she did. Still, sucks to be her."

While an ardent advocate, the President went into further detail about the complexities and risks attached to such an uncontroversial proposal.

"There's an argument to be made that such a thing may be too popular, ya know? I don't want to risk alienating my enemies. I have been committed to achieving bipartisanship, even if I don't get a single republican vote!"

We asked the president his thoughts about House Minority leader, John Boehner's comments about using the health care reform bill as the key issue to attack for the 2010 elections.

To which, the president shrugged his shoulders and said "What can I say? Haters gonna hate."
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If you guys want to not support Israel I would move to a different country if I were you. The Republicans love them because they are democracy in the middle east and a power against the Muslims and a threat to Iran. The also have huge Democratic support from most of congress because they love the Jewish lobby that help them come election time. So the polices toward Israel isn't going to change soon. Also, the person who wondered why Biden should keep his mouth shut is Biden loves to put his foot in his mouth and do something stupid and make an international incident, it is his thing. Anyways, I have no problem with Israel building there, they won its control off of Jordan in the 6 day war, and now it is the capital of Israel.
 
yankeeforever2 said:
If you guys want to not support Israel I would move to a different country if I were you. The Republicans love them because they are democracy in the middle east and a power against the Muslims and a threat to Iran. The also have huge Democratic support from most of congress because they love the Jewish lobby that help them come election time. So the polices toward Israel isn't going to change soon. Also, the person who wondered why Biden should keep his mouth shut is Biden loves to put his foot in his mouth and do something stupid and make an international incident, it is his thing. Anyways, I have no problem with Israel building there, they won its control off of Jordan in the 6 day war, and now it is the capital of Israel.
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Hey, this is Poligaf, not WrasslinGaf. Get that wrasslin crap outta here.
 
Peronthious said:
Netanyahu is a power grabbing idiot who's got himself stuck in a position where he can do little else. To become prime minister he had to kiss up to the far right, and to maintain that position he has to keep up that act. It's either he supports some of their policies or he's out of office.

My money's on him really not knowing about the housing debacle, with Lieberman, Yishai, and other far right characters he installed in his administration calling the shots. He's reduced himself to almost a figurehead with the deals he had to make.
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i am not really sure the politicians understand the public discourse re: Israel. I would love to see a poll done on what Americans thinks of Israeli interests without the noise machine of AIPAC
 
yankeeforever2 said:
If you guys want to not support Israel I would move to a different country if I were you. The Republicans love them because they are democracy in the middle east and a power against the Muslims and a threat to Iran. The also have huge Democratic support from most of congress because they love the Jewish lobby that help them come election time. So the polices toward Israel isn't going to change soon. Also, the person who wondered why Biden should keep his mouth shut is Biden loves to put his foot in his mouth and do something stupid and make an international incident, it is his thing. Anyways, I have no problem with Israel building there, they won its control off of Jordan in the 6 day war, and now it is the capital of Israel.
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So much drivel.
 
gcubed said:
i am not really sure the politicians understand the public discourse re: Israel. I would love to see a poll done on what Americans thinks of Israeli interests without the noise machine of AIPAC
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I don't think anyone understands Israel well and I think some good polling would be great. But I also think the views would be very regional based.

Clearly the hard-right Jewish people are 200% for Israel no matter what they do.

And the Palestinians in the US are against Israel but they are small group with little influence.

But beyond that, it starts getting strange . . .

You've got the far-out CUFI types that literally view Israel as a gift to God's chosen people.

And you've got various Muslims that are pretty anti-Israel.

And then you've got the pragmatists that see Israel as an ally in the region but they are a terrorist-magnet.

And you've got the anti-semetic skinheads that probably don't like Israel all that much.

And you've got the somewhat naive anti-Israel peaceniks.


How do you sum all that up?

Hell . . . I can't even make up my own mind at times. Israel is definitely a model democracy & open society compared to the rest of its neighborhood. But they've also got their own hard-right religious nuts that just do things that you know are gonna piss off Muslims and create conflict.
 
yankeeforever2 said:
If you guys want to not support Israel I would move to a different country if I were you. The Republicans love them because they are democracy in the middle east and a power against the Muslims and a threat to Iran. The also have huge Democratic support from most of congress because they love the Jewish lobby that help them come election time. So the polices toward Israel isn't going to change soon. Also, the person who wondered why Biden should keep his mouth shut is Biden loves to put his foot in his mouth and do something stupid and make an international incident, it is his thing. Anyways, I have no problem with Israel building there, they won its control off of Jordan in the 6 day war, and now it is the capital of Israel.
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Cool! . . . does that mean I can start building housing in Germany and Japan where ever I'd like?
 
speculawyer said:
I don't think anyone understands Israel well and I think some good polling would be great. But I also think the views would be very regional based.

...

Hell . . . I can't even make up my own mind at times. Israel is definitely a model democracy & open society compared to the rest of its neighborhood. But they've also got their own hard-right religious nuts that just do things that you know are gonna piss off Muslims and create conflict.
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It's only a model democracy if you overlook the fact that they have effective control over the territories they occupy. If you consider the occupied territories part of Israel, which they effectively are, it starts to look a lot more like South Africa during apartheid than a model democracy.
 
empty vessel said:
It's only a model democracy if you overlook the fact that they have effective control over the territories they occupy. If you consider the occupied territories part of Israel, which they effectively are, it starts to look a lot more like South Africa during apartheid than a model democracy.
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I'm not gonna disagree . . . but remember I said 'compared to the rest of its neighborhood'. :D
 
So I spoke with my mother tonight. We were talking about the health care reform and she asked if it passes, will medicare effectively be useless to her, as in not pay for anything? Folks she spoke to said if it passes she will be paying for it but it will effectively be broken to the point of not covering anything. I let her know that isn't the case, the doughnut hole will but closed, and many other positive things that will occur. The fear has definitely spread to folks I never thought would believe it.
 
Which is why the health care bill is so toxic. Any public confidence in it has been completely eroded. From union and government employees with cadillac plans to seniors on Medicare. I have not met one person (Democrat or Republican) in my real life that wants to pass it. No one has really stepped up and assured them that things will remain the same and no one believes the end costs will be minimal.
 
ToxicAdam said:
Which is why the health care bill is so toxic. Any public confidence in it has been completely eroded. From union and government employees with cadillac plans to seniors on Medicare. I have not met one person (Democrat or Republican) in my real life that wants to pass it. No one has really stepped up and assured them that things will remain the same and no one believes the end costs will be minimal.
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Which is why Healthcare reform has to pass now so that these fools will realize their foolishness.
 
Eh, most of the fear is based upon hyperbole. When it passes and none of the proposed bad things occur then poof, no "toxic" problem.
 
All of which will dissipate when the bill is passed, and the benefits begin to emerge, and none of the lies do.

Edit: curse me for not refreshing the page before posting. :\
 
ToxicAdam said:
Which is why the health care bill is so toxic. Any public confidence in it has been completely eroded. From union and government employees with cadillac plans to seniors on Medicare. I have not met one person (Democrat or Republican) in my real life that wants to pass it. No one has really stepped up and assured them that things will remain the same and no one believes the end costs will be minimal.
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No one has a clue as to what it really is. So they are basically just scared of the unknown.
 
Lol, acting like this bill is sunshine and rainbows of nothing but good is just as silly as saying it'll destroy the system. This bill sucks ass, start over already, although they've probably dicked around too long now to do so, fucking morons, now we're stuck with pass this reform which sucks but does some good along with the suckage or pass nothing which also sucks but doesn't mess some things up, hmm, fucking choices.

There are drawbacks that will be felt by this plan, it's not all hyperbole.
 
quadriplegicjon said:
Which is why Healthcare reform has to pass now so that these fools will realize their foolishness.
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And what .. go into effect in 3 years time? You could see a major shift in the bodies of politics by then and the bill could be effectively dismantled. It gives the opposition a window to run against it and frame the bill any way they want to. They won't have to try that hard since negativity against it is already there.


All of this sounds alot like Sony wish-speak. Just wait until <insert game here> is released!!
 
Tamanon said:
Eh, most of the fear is based upon hyperbole. When it passes and none of the proposed bad things occur then poof, no "toxic" problem.
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Isn't it a problem that most of the benefits don't kick in for 4+ years though?
 
worldrunover said:
Isn't it a problem that most of the benefits don't kick in for 4+ years though?
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Not really, the point isn't the benefits, it never was for public opinion. The point was the perceived negatives(death panels, killing medicare, dropped insurance and the like)
 
ToxicAdam is right though, in 3+ years everything could be different.

It's kind of mindblowing that all they've fought for, no matter where it ends up, is going to take that long to fully reach people. Americans need to see that it's working -- not be assured that within three years time, everything will be sugar and rainbows. It's... well, incompetent!
 
mAcOdIn said:
Lol, acting like this bill is sunshine and rainbows of nothing but good is just as silly as saying it'll destroy the system. This bill sucks ass, start over already, although they've probably dicked around too long now to do so, fucking morons, now we're stuck with pass this reform which sucks but does some good along with the suckage or pass nothing which also sucks but doesn't mess some things up, hmm, fucking choices.

There are drawbacks that will be felt by this plan, it's not all hyperbole.
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Is that what we are saying? *Scratches head*
 
Diablos said:
ToxicAdam is right though, in 3+ years everything could be different.

It's kind of mindblowing that all they've fought for, no matter where it ends up, is going to take that long to fully reach people. Americans need to see that it's working -- not be assured that within three years time, everything will be sugar and rainbows. It's... well, incompetent!
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Why? Why do Americans need to see immediate results? And how would you make it work in one year's time without skyrocketing costs?

This isn't "Gallup Bill 2010", it's HEALTHCARE REFORM, it's supposed to be long-term, because it's supposed to require as little patching as possible down the road.
 
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