slidewinder
Banned
Bush raised buckets of money ALL OVER the country when he was kryptonite. All it takes is a prominent local with a nice place and a caterer.
PoliGAF 2010: Home Of "By The Time I Get To Arizona"
- Thread starter PantherLotus
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ClovingWestbrook
Banned
scorcho said:
True, and when Obama is at that level, then I will agree. Obama's unpopularity with many of his party IMHO come down to a lack of action on the big issues so far. Sure, some of his policy I agree are disappointing to say the least (support of mandatory DNA, not closing Guantanamo, not being active enough in some areas, backroom deal with Pharma, etc.), but for many Dems its the lack of action that his party and the people of this country and point to and say "SEE, This is something done under his watch".
If health care passes and from day one there is no longer the possibility of losing your insurance to a preexisting condition, closing the doughnut hole, etc., then that is something that people can point to. Also IMHO, once the bill is signed, much of the fear and anger will subside regarding health care reform from many in the middle.
Yeah, but there's a distinction between being raising money and campaigning/supporting a candidate. i agree with joeboy - i don't know whether the support Obama pulls from these candidates will matter much unless they pull a TP and push it towards progressive candidates during the primary.slidewinder said:
RustyNails
Member
IF we got hit by a terror attack ala 9/11, you can be guaranteed that Obama will be impeached out of office for failing to keep amurca safe.speculawyer said:
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
JoeBoy101 said:
Hmm...did you miss the part where it said it's for fund raising. And remember some DEMs aren't voting for the bill because it doesn't go far enough. Those are the people he's really trying to scare into voting for the bill. Their constituents actually do like Obama a lot.
mckmas8808 said:
A fair point about the other dems who might not vote for the bill, but I didn't miss the fund raising part, because it doesn't matter. Like I said, in a state which is not as blue as for other dems, his mere fundraising will be used as an attack (Sen. Guggenheim tied to the hip of President Obama, as always) and to galvanize opposition (Elect Todd McFairen for someone to stand up for you in Congress, not Obama). That won't be ignored just because its a fundraiser.
closed door fundraiser = good. standing on the stage next to the candidate = bad.LosDaddie said:
granted, Obama isn't anywhere near the toxicity that Bush had, but i don't see the loss of his support to these candidates as a particularly ominous thing unless they support a primary challenge.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
gcubed said:
I agree. He complains because he said the bill doesn't go far enough in bringing down cost, but the bill is also doing too much too soon.
So which one is it? Too much too soon or not enough? And I'm curious to know what he thinks we are doing too much of?
JoeBoy101 said:
Again remember that not everyone that may vote against the bill lives in a republican district. And not everyone that may vote against the bill is a blue dog DEM. I do agree that if he pushes for a primary challenger that would be even stronger.
Happy Hour Roundup
from The Plum Line by Greg Sargent
from The Plum Line by Greg Sargent
* Dem Leaders Circulating Memo Advising On Tea Party Etiquette:
With the Tea Partiers set to descend on the Capitol tomorrow, the Dem leadership is distributing a memo advising the offices of House Dems on Tea Party Etiquette, giving them talking points for explaining the bill and advising them to prepare to spend a great deal of time explaining that the death panels are a fiction.
The memo, which is being circulated by Chris Van Hollens staff and can be read right here, is only partly tongue in cheek. Consider having some light snacks, H2O, and coffee available, the memo says. Ask visitors to leave all signs and banners outside the office.
The memo instructs Dems to be patient in the face of a tidal wave of misinformation.
Many of the conservative activists are not opposing the actual provisions in the bill, but are instead reacting to a caricature of the reform bill presented by right-wing media outlets, the memo reads. Be prepared to explain that there are no death panels, that Medicare is in fact strengthened, and that reform is not a government take-over.
The memo urges Dem staffers to stress to irate Tea Partiers the range of reforms that will take effect immediately.
**********************************
* Dem Rep Chris Carney of Pennsylvania, a key target of both sides who voted Yes last time, says he cant vote for the Senate bill. His office is refusing to clarify, so for now this stands as a No.
* And: Rep Mike Intyre of North Carolina, a former No who Dems were targetting in order to flip to Yes, confirms hes a definite No.
* Ben Smith obtains the latest polling memo from Obama pollster Joel Benenson, arguing that the unpopularity of the Dem agenda stems not from its scale but from a perception that the process is tainted.
* Karen Tumulty points out that the public option could indeed be brought back from the dead: By the nations governors!
* John Boehner seizes on the Obama administrations criticism of Israel to compare it (unfavorably) to his enagement of Iran.
* And: Eric Cantor says its a symptom of Obamas desire to ingratiate our country with the Arab world.
* At that sit-down with bloggers today, Nancy Pelosi also outlined her preferred route forward in procedural terms. Naturally, this is best explained by Ezra Klein and Jonathan Cohn.
* Matt Yglesias takeaway, accurate I think, from the meeting: Despite her obligatory claims to the contrary, Pelosi doesnt care all that much about bipartisanship for its own sake.
* Karl Rove, whose candor and concern for the political health of Dems is well known, tells ABCs Top Line that forging ahead with health reform is leading them to destruction.
* And Steve Benen catches some interesting ad-libbing by the President today.
With the Tea Partiers set to descend on the Capitol tomorrow, the Dem leadership is distributing a memo advising the offices of House Dems on Tea Party Etiquette, giving them talking points for explaining the bill and advising them to prepare to spend a great deal of time explaining that the death panels are a fiction.
The memo, which is being circulated by Chris Van Hollens staff and can be read right here, is only partly tongue in cheek. Consider having some light snacks, H2O, and coffee available, the memo says. Ask visitors to leave all signs and banners outside the office.
The memo instructs Dems to be patient in the face of a tidal wave of misinformation.
Many of the conservative activists are not opposing the actual provisions in the bill, but are instead reacting to a caricature of the reform bill presented by right-wing media outlets, the memo reads. Be prepared to explain that there are no death panels, that Medicare is in fact strengthened, and that reform is not a government take-over.
The memo urges Dem staffers to stress to irate Tea Partiers the range of reforms that will take effect immediately.
**********************************
* Dem Rep Chris Carney of Pennsylvania, a key target of both sides who voted Yes last time, says he cant vote for the Senate bill. His office is refusing to clarify, so for now this stands as a No.
* And: Rep Mike Intyre of North Carolina, a former No who Dems were targetting in order to flip to Yes, confirms hes a definite No.
* Ben Smith obtains the latest polling memo from Obama pollster Joel Benenson, arguing that the unpopularity of the Dem agenda stems not from its scale but from a perception that the process is tainted.
* Karen Tumulty points out that the public option could indeed be brought back from the dead: By the nations governors!
* John Boehner seizes on the Obama administrations criticism of Israel to compare it (unfavorably) to his enagement of Iran.
* And: Eric Cantor says its a symptom of Obamas desire to ingratiate our country with the Arab world.
* At that sit-down with bloggers today, Nancy Pelosi also outlined her preferred route forward in procedural terms. Naturally, this is best explained by Ezra Klein and Jonathan Cohn.
* Matt Yglesias takeaway, accurate I think, from the meeting: Despite her obligatory claims to the contrary, Pelosi doesnt care all that much about bipartisanship for its own sake.
* Karl Rove, whose candor and concern for the political health of Dems is well known, tells ABCs Top Line that forging ahead with health reform is leading them to destruction.
* And Steve Benen catches some interesting ad-libbing by the President today.
RustyNails
Member
If the members find out that the bill has the minimum required votes it needs to pass (216 in house) without their vote, they start acting like drama queens especially if the bill doesn't have provisions they want.mckmas8808 said:
scorcho said:
I don't want to come across as suggest Obama has the same toxicity that Bush had. That's hardly the case. BUT, he does rile up his opponents, not to the same degree, but similar to Bush. That's where my focus was on. A fundraiser with Bush on the other hand, shit, that would have cost you independent voters.
It is an odd reasoning to be sure. Seriously.gcubed said:
He literally said it didn't do enough and did too much in the same sentence.
As for the cost of the bill, it's paid for(essentially) so what's it matter what our debt is? And health care is really like the one area where 1 trillion starts sounding like chump change, how did he think they'd control costs for less money? I'd LOVE to hear that. Way I see it, so long as we're hell bent on keeping something similar to our current system without going any further down the European route this is about as far as we can go to control costs, there's literally not much else that can be done without getting government directly involved in education and actually providing the care, and while that can help us keep it cheaper over all, the actual cost and size for the federal government to do that would be much bigger than this bill.
Something similar to this bill is what America is going to get, like it or not, he should be trying to put amendments in to clear up what he can instead of hating on the whole thing.
Like, everyone here knows I hate the bill but if they just amended the exchange part to clarify exactly what everything is I could live with it passing and not be so hostile to it. Just, I can't contribute to the process so I have to get on my soap box.
speculawyer
Member
Incognito said:
:lol
Take that, Bibi.
I don't think you are very bright either unless it is your intention to drag Israel into yet another Intifada.
RustyNails
Member
Incognito said:
If he thinks Livni is any better, he's grossly mistaken.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Obama campaigning/fund raising will help more candidates than it hurts; in fact, the fund raising will help all candidates. Some blue dogs might not want to be seen with Obama, but right now there are many liberal congressman who are threatening not to vote for health care.
I wish Obama used this threat on the public option but oh well.
I wish Obama used this threat on the public option but oh well.
And bear in mind, when Bush was toxic, and candidates didn't want to be seen with him, they didn't cancel fundraisers - they just held them closed to the press. They needed the money at least as bad as normal election years. Obama's threat should carry some serious weight. Going into a rough election cycle is one thing, doing so without the support of the President is another.PhoenixDark said:
Obama On Fox News: Bret Baier To Interview President
Yes.
In January, I called for the Obama admin to embrace Fox News. To constantly appear on the network, and make Obama readily available for chats. Obama needs become personable to that side of America. It's way too easy for Fox to demonize the unknown.
Yes.
In January, I called for the Obama admin to embrace Fox News. To constantly appear on the network, and make Obama readily available for chats. Obama needs become personable to that side of America. It's way too easy for Fox to demonize the unknown.
PhoenixDark
Banned
GhaleonEB said:
Plus Obama is far from where Bush was. Any congressman who blows this off because Obama has low poll numbers would be a fool. His popularity should rebound after this is passed anyway, and with the economy possibly improving (or public perception of the economy improving, soon to be helped by the temporary census job wave that hopefully includes yours truly) things could look much better for dems. Nate Silver and others sound less dire about their chances.
Also, I don't think this threat suggests the vote situation is bad; if it was, Pelosi wouldn't be so confident. They're probably really close, and the WH hopes this threat will push some of the more surprising No votes back to the Yes column.
RustyNails
Member
Zero Hero
Member
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
God damn Dems are being idiots, don't they realize the reason the GOP kicks their asses most of the time is because they stick together no matter. If this thing fails along with their majority they have no one to blame but themselves. Damn fools piss me off arghh!
Fareed is the only reason to watch CNN, despite his creepy super shiny lips :lol
Fareed is the only reason to watch CNN, despite his creepy super shiny lips :lol
Aye, they'll have the votes. I'm actually more worried about when they'll get a CBO score, honesty. That is seriously endangering the entire time line: it was expected 10 days ago. Last week we had daily articles about how it was coming the next day. The House held their caucus meeting yesterday, and they didn't have it yet: they expected it today. So far, crickets. They can't do a hard vote count until the scoring and language are released.PhoenixDark said:
Also, as for the healthcare bills:
Rasmussen:
Every one else:
Those line will cross over big time after it's passed.
scorcho said:
Which is all a prez does for mid-term elections....mainly because the prez isn't on the ballot. Meaning that there really isn't any upside (for either of them) being seen publicly together. It wouldn't motivate voters to vote for/against the candidate who weren't already planning on doing so. And if the candidate lost, then the opposition would run away with the "Candidate X lost because the American people reject the Prez" talking point. No upside.
Fund raising is the best support a prez can do for a mid-term candidate. They need money far more than any perceived bump in the polls a prez could give them
Only on rare occasion / critical races will a prez partake in a rally for a mid-term candidate.
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
CharlieDigital
Banned
Doc Holliday said:
Wow, fuck Christie
The fact that the governor took that higher income tax off the table I think is a major mistake on his part, said Senate President Stephen M. Sweeney, Democrat of Gloucester County. This is a very cold budget. There has to be a little more compassion for the middle class and poor, because all the burden is being put on them.
Indeed, Governor Christies budget would squeeze those with lower incomes in several ways: eliminating cash welfare for the able-bodied; imposing new $310 deductibles and doubling some drug co-pays for Medicaid patients; and trimming back the states earned-income tax credit to 20 percent of the federal benefit, from 25 percent.
Mr. Corzine cut property-tax rebates for homeowners last year, though he preserved them for the elderly, disabled, and people making less than $75,000. The move drew fierce attacks from Governor Christie, who positioned himself as a champion of the middle class and vowed to restore a portion of the rebates.
But in his budget, Governor Christie now is canceling rebates entirely until May 2011, when they will begin showing up as credits on quarterly property-tax bills instead of arriving in the mail as yearly refund checks.
Indeed, Governor Christies budget would squeeze those with lower incomes in several ways: eliminating cash welfare for the able-bodied; imposing new $310 deductibles and doubling some drug co-pays for Medicaid patients; and trimming back the states earned-income tax credit to 20 percent of the federal benefit, from 25 percent.
Mr. Corzine cut property-tax rebates for homeowners last year, though he preserved them for the elderly, disabled, and people making less than $75,000. The move drew fierce attacks from Governor Christie, who positioned himself as a champion of the middle class and vowed to restore a portion of the rebates.
But in his budget, Governor Christie now is canceling rebates entirely until May 2011, when they will begin showing up as credits on quarterly property-tax bills instead of arriving in the mail as yearly refund checks.
What. The. Fuck?!?
He also wants to reduce by attrition the so-called senior freeze that caps property taxes for the elderly, by refusing to admit new homeowners into the program.
Is this guy pure fucking evil or what?
Doc Holliday said:
live and learn. NJ made their bed, now they need to live in it. Its not like it should be a surprise. That being said, his predecessor was horrendous and whatever his budget looks like, i'm still willing to give him a chance. Rolling back government spending usually hits those groups hardest because they benefit the most. Balancing budgets and cutting back spending isn't a way to make friends, but it has to be done
This. I really think the brief "war on Fox News" was one of the biggest mistakes of this administration. You just give the opposition more ammo that way. Kinda like when Obama met with the House Republicans and pretty much bitch-slapped them after they claimed he was unwilling to meet with the other side. If he puts himself out there to the part of the public that demonizes him, it will do a lot to neutralize their attacks or misconceptions.Fatalah said:
Fatalah said:
I still disagree. There are only 2 outcomes I can see from this:
- Obama is portrayed like a weak little bitch (ie Colmes and J.Williams)
- Obama is portrayed like an angry asshole (ie Schultz and K.Powers)
Just look at Fox's primetime hosts: Cavuto, Beck, Baier, OReilly, and Hannity. Fans of those nutjobs aren't ever going to vote Dem. Those people want to see Obama/Dems demonized, that's why they watch Fox News are their primetime hosts.
IMO, Obama should hold more debates with Repubs like he did in late Jan.
Zero Hero said:
LIke I've said many times here before; The GOP and the TBers are one and the same.
RustyNails
Member
Everything about him is shiny: His hair, lips and teeth too. I think he sparkles in HDDoc Holliday said:
On the spending side, sure. But overall goverment policy benfits the wealthy more than the poor and middle class. It's not even close. This budget specifically protects them.gcubed said:
NJ to be the next California. (Which just laid off 23,000 teachers.)gkrykewy said:
In NJ, I'm hopeful the congress will beat back some of the most repugnant aspects of it, but we'll see. They fucked themselves over big time.
Zero Hero
Member
CharlieDigital said:Wow, fuck Christie
The fact that the governor took that higher income tax off the table I think is a major mistake on his part, said Senate President Stephen M. Sweeney, Democrat of Gloucester County. This is a very cold budget. There has to be a little more compassion for the middle class and poor, because all the burden is being put on them.
Indeed, Governor Christies budget would squeeze those with lower incomes in several ways: eliminating cash welfare for the able-bodied; imposing new $310 deductibles and doubling some drug co-pays for Medicaid patients; and trimming back the states earned-income tax credit to 20 percent of the federal benefit, from 25 percent.
Mr. Corzine cut property-tax rebates for homeowners last year, though he preserved them for the elderly, disabled, and people making less than $75,000. The move drew fierce attacks from Governor Christie, who positioned himself as a champion of the middle class and vowed to restore a portion of the rebates.
But in his budget, Governor Christie now is canceling rebates entirely until May 2011, when they will begin showing up as credits on quarterly property-tax bills instead of arriving in the mail as yearly refund checks.
What. The. Fuck?!?
He also wants to reduce by attrition the so-called senior freeze that caps property taxes for the elderly, by refusing to admit new homeowners into the program.
Is this guy pure fucking evil or what?
Looks like typical republican bait and switch to me. People just don't learn.
CharlieDigital
Banned
Zero Hero said:
The fucking elderly, man.........................that's cold.
NJ already has some of the highest property taxes in the country (if not the highest). Removing some relief for the elderly? Coldhearted.
SouthernDragon
Member
one and the same
empty vessel
Member
CharlieDigital said:Wow, fuck Christie
The fact that the governor took that higher income tax off the table I think is a major mistake on his part, said Senate President Stephen M. Sweeney, Democrat of Gloucester County. This is a very cold budget. There has to be a little more compassion for the middle class and poor, because all the burden is being put on them.
Indeed, Governor Christies budget would squeeze those with lower incomes in several ways: eliminating cash welfare for the able-bodied; imposing new $310 deductibles and doubling some drug co-pays for Medicaid patients; and trimming back the states earned-income tax credit to 20 percent of the federal benefit, from 25 percent.
Mr. Corzine cut property-tax rebates for homeowners last year, though he preserved them for the elderly, disabled, and people making less than $75,000. The move drew fierce attacks from Governor Christie, who positioned himself as a champion of the middle class and vowed to restore a portion of the rebates.
But in his budget, Governor Christie now is canceling rebates entirely until May 2011, when they will begin showing up as credits on quarterly property-tax bills instead of arriving in the mail as yearly refund checks.
This is the part of American history in which the clip at which the wealthy take back the gains the middle class made in the 50s and 60s begins accelerating markedly. Unfortunately for us, it isn't history yet. After the two parties have successfully squeezed all the juice out of the middle class, revealing the emperor's nakedness, the US may see a political and economic revitalization. But that's going to be down the road a bit, unless the left organizes sooner rather than later.
slidewinder
Banned
What do you do for a living, empty vessel?
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
GhaleonEB said:Also, as for the healthcare bills:
Rasmussen:
Every one else:
Those line will cross over big time after it's passed.
Oh so this is what Congressmen have been talking about when they said health care polling has turned a corner. So can we get rid of the "the people don't want this health care plan"?
RustyNails
Member
Public Option in the Reconciliation bill
How true is this???
How true is this???
turnbuckle
Member
empty vessel said:
Made me think of Howard Zinn. Was just watching one of his last interviews before he passed a couple of months ago with Bill Moyers. http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/12112009/profile.html
A few good quotes:
"What matters most is not who is sitting in the White House, but "who is sitting in" -- and who is marching outside the White House, pushing for change."
"I will try not to overlook the cruelties that victims inflict on one another as they are jammed together in the boxcars of the system. I dont want to romanticize them. But I do remember (in rough paraphrase) a statement I once read: The cry of the poor is not always just, but if you dont listen to it, you will never know what justice is.
And Zinn on Obama: I think people are dazzled by Obama's rhetoric, and that people ought to begin to understand that Obama is going to be a mediocre president--which means, in our time, a dangerous president--unless there is some national movement to push him in a better direction.
---
Unfortunately I feel like the left will organize later rather than sooner. I'm part of the problem. It was never enough for me to sit at my computer and complain while donating to different progressive causes and candidates; but now that my already-meager dollar contributions are worth less than before, I've become relatively useless in the fight.
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