PoliGAF 2011: Of Weiners, Boehners, Santorum, and Teabags

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quadriplegicjon said:
Cuts to entitlements (SS, Medicare, Medicaid), undoes Obama's Student Load reform (how awesome of them), plus the retarded balanced budget amendment... and I am sure there are many others.

any tax cuts in this bill?
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I've heard nothing about tax cuts being in it? Where did you hear of those specific cuts being in this bill?

Also, what is wrong with a balanced budget amendment?
 
Jonm1010 said:
How you figure?
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The GOP will constantly bring up that they have a plan and that they've passed a bill. And that now the country will go into the shitter due to DEMs not having a plan, passing a bill, or without Obama having a clue what to do.

And the American people will eat that shit up like gravy on mashed potatoes.
 
quadriplegicjon said:
Cuts to entitlements (SS, Medicare, Medicaid), undoes Obama's Student Load reform (how awesome of them), plus the retarded balanced budget amendment... and I am sure there are many others.

any tax cuts in this bill?
Click to expand...

Ewww, this really is a messy situation.
 
BruiserBear said:
I've heard nothing about tax cuts being in it? Where did you hear of those specific cuts being in this bill?

Also, what is wrong with a balanced budget amendment?
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The bill basically requires the BBA to pass both Houses and its sent to the states before the 2nd debt increase can be passed.
 
Question, why are the house democrats voting for this in such large numbers as well? (Edit: Oh nevermind, this is a post office naming...)
 
mckmas8808 said:
The GOP will constantly bring up that they have a plan and that they've passed a bill. And that now the country will go into the shitter due to DEMs not having a plan, passing a bill, or without Obama having a clue what to do.

And the American people will eat that shit up like gravy on mashed potatoes.
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Yeah but in a day or so the senate will have their plan passed and that talking point is cut off.

Plus the public didnt buy that talking point the first time they voted on a symbolic DOA bill.
 
BruiserBear said:
I've heard nothing about tax cuts being in it? Where did you hear of those specific cuts being in this bill?

Also, what is wrong with a balanced budget amendment?
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I was asking about tax cuts. A few issues with the balanced budget amendment is: The Wars. Bush Tax cuts. How exactly will we have a balanced budget if the republicans so adamantly refuse to increase the revenue (as seen by this fucking bill)? The amendment will also not pass the Senate, in which case, the second debt limit increase will not occur... and we have this shit all over again.


and you don't have issues with the other stuff?


slit said:
Ewww, this really is a messy situation.
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oops. :P
 
mckmas8808 said:
The GOP will constantly bring up that they have a plan and that they've passed a bill. And that now the country will go into the shitter due to DEMs not having a plan, passing a bill, or without Obama having a clue what to do.

And the American people will eat that shit up like gravy on mashed potatoes.
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Well, as far as I'm aware no one ever stopped Obama or Reid from putting forth a bill for the past 6 months, right?
 
BruiserBear said:
Well, as far as I'm aware no one ever stopped Obama or Reid from putting forth a bill for the past 6 months, right?
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The constitution stopped Obama from putting forth a bill. Also Reid, considering that it has to pass the House first.
 
BruiserBear said:
I've heard nothing about tax cuts being in it? Where did you hear of those specific cuts being in this bill?

Also, what is wrong with a balanced budget amendment?
Click to expand...

What is wrong with a balanced budget amendment or what is wrong with this balanced budget amendment?

Could you even tell me what the balanced budget amendment they passed says?
 
quadriplegicjon said:
I was asking about tax cuts. A few issues with the balanced budget amendment is: The Wars. Bush Tax cuts. How exactly will we have a balanced budget if the republicans so adamantly refuse to increase the revenue (as seen by this fucking bill)? The amendment will also not pass the Senate, in which case, the second debt limit increase will not occur... and we have this shit all over again.


and you don't have issues with the other stuff?
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I asked where you heard those specific cuts were in this bill they just passed?
 
Is that neither side is more right over the other, its that each side has talking points and agendas to stick to that are either a higher priority or lower priority depending on their political stance and constituents.

The Democrats and the Republicans both deserve what they get for this volleyball and that much will be evident next year.
 
BruiserBear said:
Well, as far as I'm aware no one ever stopped Obama or Reid from putting forth a bill for the past 6 months, right?
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What are you like the GOP talking point generator?

Obama offered a 4 trillion dollar plan in negotiations but republicans scoffed because it asked the rich, big phrama/oil and the defense sector to share in the sacrifice.

The democrats largely believed that now is not the time to spook credit agenices or cut spending and wanted a clean bill.

Reid has put together a weak plan that is basically everything republicans claimed they wanted in cuts except he is asking small cuts from defense, oil subsidies and big pharma and the teabaggers arent having that shit. And since Boehner is only interested right now in crafting legislation that appeals to the GOP he is letting the tea party hold the country's credit at gun point while they throw a hissy fit because they want all or nothing.
 
BruiserBear said:
Well, as far as I'm aware no one ever stopped Obama or Reid from putting forth a bill for the past 6 months, right?
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Why do so many people want the President to put forth an actual bill? That's not the President's job.
 
mckmas8808 said:
Why do so many people want the President to put forth an actually bill? That's not the President's job.
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Seriously lol... Constitutionally the Budget and creation of bills falls squarely on Lawmakers hence the name.
 
Pctx said:
Is that neither side is more right over the other, its that each side has talking points and agendas to stick to that are either a higher priority or lower priority depending on their political stance and constituents.

The Democrats and the Republicans both deserve what they get for this volleyball and that much will be evident next year.
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So as of 48 hours ago, what should the DEMs have done that could have fixed this issue?
 
mckmas8808 said:
The GOP will constantly bring up that they have a plan and that they've passed a bill. And that now the country will go into the shitter due to DEMs not having a plan, passing a bill, or without Obama having a clue what to do.

And the American people will eat that shit up like gravy on mashed potatoes.
Click to expand...

Except the senate will send back a revised bill before default which will put the ball back in Boehner's court and back and forth we go.
 
quadriplegicjon said:
The constitution stopped Obama from putting forth a bill. Also Reid, considering that it has to pass the House first.
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Nonsense. Obama could have sat down months ago and proposed something from his side. Nothing would have prevented that.
 
BruiserBear said:
Nonsense. Obama could have sat down months ago and proposed something from his side. Nothing would have prevented that.
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WTF DO YOU THINK THEY WERE DOING LAST WEEK AND THE WEEK BEFORE?!?!!?!
 
BruiserBear said:
Nonsense. Obama could have sat down months ago and proposed something from his side. Nothing would have prevented that.
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Obama offered a $4B plan last week, but the GOP scoffed at it. To say Obama offered nothing--which isn't even his job--is 100% false. Hell, the offer Obama made was 95% of what the GOP wanted, but they still balked at it because of that 5%.
 
mckmas8808 said:
So as of 48 hours ago, what should the DEMs have done that could have fixed this issue?
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You're missing the point. Both sides need to give and take, not one or the other. The underlying point that I've made this entire time during this shitfest is that we do not have leaders who will compromise in order for things to get done. Its a sad day when people are so polarized and the people get the short end of the stick.
 
slit said:
Except the senate will send back a revised bill before default which will put the ball back in Boehner's court and back and forth we go.
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True, except I don't see the Reid bill passing in the Senate.

Fake Edit: Oh hold up the filibuster will be taken off right? If so then yeah it passes this weekend and the talking point would be mute.
 
Vestal said:
WTF DO YOU THINK THEY WERE DOING LAST WEEK AND THE WEEK BEFORE?!?!!?!
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I'm just saying it's not like this debt ceiling snuck up on anyone. Hell, Obama could have raised the debt limit late last year, before his party lost the house, but he chose not to.

Also, it's hard to ignore the irony that Obama and Biden voted against raising the debt limit while Bush was in office.

I'm not bringing any or this up because I think the Repubs are handling this well. I just enjoy pointing out the obvious for those who seem to worship at the alter of a single party, ignoring the parts they choose to, while harping on the ones they choose. I don't think either side is going to walk away from this battle holding their heads high. Both sides have embarrassed themselves IMO.
 
Pctx said:
You're missing the point. Both sides need to give and take, not one or the other. The underlying point that I've made this entire time during this shitfest is that we do not have leaders who will compromise in order for things to get done. Its a sad day when people are so polarized and the people get the short end of the stick.
Click to expand...

God if there was one thing I wish could be eradicated from this board it's this false equivalency bullshit.
 
Pctx said:
You're missing the point. Both sides need to give and take, not one or the other. The underlying point that I've made this entire time during this shitfest is that we do not have leaders who will compromise in order for things to get done. Its a sad day when people are so polarized and the people get the short end of the stick.
Click to expand...

So what should the Dems have given that they didn't offer? What should the Republicans have given that they didn't offer?
 
BruiserBear said:
I'm just saying it's not like this debt ceiling snuck up on anyone. Hell, Obama could have raised the debt limit late last year, before his party lost the house, but he chose not to.

Also, it's hard to ignore the irony that Obama and Biden voted against raising the debt limit while Bush was in office.

I'm not bringing any or this up because I think the Repubs are handling this well. I just enjoy pointing out the obvious for those who seem to worship at the alter of a single party, ignoring the parts they choose to, while harping on the ones they choose. I don't think either side is going to walk away from this battle holding their heads high. Both sides have embarrassed themselves IMO.
Click to expand...

Wasn't there just a conversation about shitty back and forth like this a handful of posts ago?
 
BruiserBear said:
Nonsense. Obama could have sat down months ago and proposed something from his side. Nothing would have prevented that.
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Negotiations started in late June if I remember correctly. That's plenty of time. In the end the start date does not matter. This was set to go to the deadline no matter when it started. The tea party has set this as a line in the sand.

The republicans keep going on about how the debt is the biggest and most important thing to face this nation since the USSR and yet they refuse to even consider increasing revenues. If this is so important you would think they could consider looking at that. They would rather use this as an excuse to cancel programs that get their panties in a bunch. I don't find that as taking a crises seriously.
 
BruiserBear said:
Well, as far as I'm aware no one ever stopped Obama or Reid from putting forth a bill for the past 6 months, right?
Click to expand...

A bill for what? The House rejected a clean bill raising the debt limit back in April. There was nothing for Obama to put forth. You seem to think that Democrats wanted something other than raising the debt limit. They didn't. That's all that they wanted. It was defeated by Republicans months ago. This has all been negotiations over what Republicans want to avoid inflicting substantial harm on the American economy and Americans, i.e., to take the knife away from America's neck. Democrats don't have an obligation to do jack shit.
 
Pctx said:
You're missing the point. Both sides need to give and take, not one or the other. The underlying point that I've made this entire time during this shitfest is that we do not have leaders who will compromise in order for things to get done. Its a sad day when people are so polarized and the people get the short end of the stick.
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Okay, let's flip this debate and look at compromise as both sides getting something they want.

1) Fiscal conservatives / libertarians want to reduce the size of the government and, more specifically, the size of the debt.

We certainly aren't reducing it as greatly as they'd like, but we're clearly reducing it. By more than a trillion dollars a decade.

2) Liberals/Keynsians believe that stimulus is necessary in times of recession. They'd often prefer no deficit reduction at all, but if there must be one, many argue for tax increases, not spending cuts.

What are these people getting? Honest question.
 
BruiserBear said:
I'm just saying it's not like this debt ceiling snuck up on anyone. Hell, Obama could have raised the debt limit late last year, before his party lost the house, but he chose not to.

Also, it's hard to ignore the irony that Obama and Biden voted against raising the debt limit while Bush was in office.

I'm not bringing any or this up because I think the Repubs are handling this well. I just enjoy pointing out the obvious for those who seem to worship at the alter of a single party, ignoring the parts they choose to, while harping on the ones they choose. I don't think either side is going to walk away from this battle holding their heads high. Both sides have embarrassed themselves IMO.
Click to expand...

Obama didnt do that because no one thought the tea party and the GOP were big enough fucking idiots to use the debt ceiling issue as a means to push their ideological agenda through by way of holding a gun to our credit rating and the health of the international economy.
 
Pctx said:
You're missing the point. Both sides need to give and take, not one or the other. The underlying point that I've made this entire time during this shitfest is that we do not have leaders who will compromise in order for things to get done. Its a sad day when people are so polarized and the people get the short end of the stick.
Click to expand...
Um, are you fucking kidding? Since Obama has been president, "compromise" has meant Republicans get everything they want, Obama and the Dems give a shit ton of ground on everything then the Republicans bellyache that the other side isn't compromising with them.
 
Opiate said:
Okay, let's flip this debate and look at compromise as both sides getting something they want.

Fiscal conservatives / libertarians want to reduce the size of the government and, more specifically, the size of the debt.

We certainly aren't reducing it as greatly as they'd like, but we're clearly reducing it. By more than a trillion dollars a decade.

Liberals/Keynsians believe that stimulus is necessary in times of recession. They'd often prefer no deficit reduction at all, but if there must be one, many argue for tax increases, not spending cuts.

What are these people getting? Honest question.
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Miniature American flags.
 
Bulbo Urethral Baggins said:
Or people crying "false equivalency" with nothing to back up the claim.
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I want everything; I'll give you something. I want everything; I'll give you a little more. I want everything and I will burn the economy down if I don't. EACH SIDE WON"T COMPROMISE!
 
Pctx said:
You're missing the point. Both sides need to give and take, not one or the other. The underlying point that I've made this entire time during this shitfest is that we do not have leaders who will compromise in order for things to get done. Its a sad day when people are so polarized and the people get the short end of the stick.
Click to expand...
You're being obtuse or you're a partisan hack pretending to be a concerned centrist. I see no other options.
 
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