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[mckmas8808]

Define "worked".

It helped take us from a recession to a slow recovery. And now we can see the effects of it not being here.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

It helped take us from a recession to a slow recovery. And now we can see the effects of it not being here.

It would be one thing if it just went away but federal and local government has been a drag on GDP for a number of quarters now and that's not really helping.

 

[Lord_Byron28]

Found the poll

45% teabaggers support higher taxes, which is a lot higher than I thought. I mean, TEA = taxed enough already, amirite

You are discussing Tea party supporters. Not the people actually in office. The Tea party members in office are out of touch with what their supporters want and have made it a point to be uncompromising which is what the article was refering to.

 

[slit]

They took it off the table because the Republican House would undoubtedly impeach him.

Regardless, I don't think it's completely off the table. If it comes down to the last minute and Congress still hasn't acted, he'll use it.

Which could be the best thing that could happen for him. The GOP will turn him into a martyr by doing that. Even more so than Clinton, the majority of the country will feel that impeaching him over doing something that saves the nation from defaulting is a completely shitty thing to do. If the country felt that way over something like lying under oath and getting a BJ, they'll have a field day with something that actually matters.

 

[polyh3dron]

Found the poll

45% teabaggers support higher taxes, which is a lot higher than I thought. I mean, TEA = taxed enough already, amirite

Proof that TEA = I'm mad that we have a black president

 

[GhaleonEB]

You are discussing Tea party supporters. Not the people actually in office. The Tea party members in office are out of touch with what their supporters want and have made it a point to be uncompromising which is what the article was refering to.

I would rephrase this. The Tea Party people in office were corporate-backed hard right Republicans who snookered voters into thinking they were going to support what they wanted. Suckers.

And they'll continue to vote these people in office, because of the socialisms.

 

[Jonm1010]

Which could be the best thing that could happen for him. The GOP will turn him into a martyr by doing that. Even more so than Clinton, the majority of the country will feel that impeaching him over doing something that saves the nation from defaulting is a completely shitty thing to do. If the country felt that way over something like lying under oath and getting a BJ, they'll have a field day with something that actually matters.

The downside is if Obama goes that route the public will have no idea what the alternative scenario would have looked like had he not. And knowing the public and the power of this countries propaganda arm(read: foxnews) 6 months from now half or more of the public will probably be thinking that default wouldnt have been that bad and Obama was in the wrong.

 

[slit]

The downside is if Obama goes that route the public will have no idea what the alternative scenario would have looked like had he not. And knowing the public and the power of this countries propaganda arm(read: foxnews) 6 months from now half or more of the public will probably be thinking that default wouldnt have been that bad and Obama was in the wrong.

I doubt it, the only ones who are screaming that default would be okay are the Tea Party caucus. Even a lot of those on the right know how dangerous this game is. The ones who take Fox news as gospel already want to see him impeached so it's not like he'd be losing their vote anyway.

 

[richiek]

The downside is if Obama goes that route the public will have no idea what the alternative scenario would have looked like had he not. And knowing the public and the power of this countries propaganda arm(read: foxnews) 6 months from now half or more of the public will probably be thinking that default wouldnt have been that bad and Obama was in the wrong.

Even if Obama's impeached by the House, I highly doubt the Senate will convict him. Obama's vindicated and the Teatards look like spiteful assholes.

 

[Jonm1010]

I doubt it, the only ones who are screaming that default would be okay are the Tea Party caucus. Even a lot of those on the right know how dangerous this game is. The ones who take Fox news as gospel already want to see him impeached so it's not like he'd be losing their vote anyway.

maybe, but just look at TARP. While never hugely popular the revisionist history about the consequences of not doing it is so out of whack with reality now its unnerving. I mean shit something like 47% compared to 34% think that shit happened under Obama. People are stupid in this country and after a few weeks most forget the reality and substitute their most emotionally resonating talking point.

 

[Jonm1010]

Even if Obama's impeached by the House, I highly doubt the Senate will convict him. Obama's vindicated and the Teatards look like spiteful assholes.

Im talking more election wise than whether it would actually go through.

 

[DEO3]

Every now and again there's some event in Washington that leaves such a bad taste in my mouth that I have to stop following politics all together and simply tune out for a couple months. This is one of those times.

I mean, I already know how it's all going to end. The media will talk about how both sides need to compromise, ignoring the fact that it's only the Democrats who ever do, our policies will continue to shift ever rightward, and the Democrats will get all the blame.

So why should I waste my time even paying attention to this shit?

 

[thefit]

Every now and again there's some event in Washington that leaves such a bad taste in my mouth that I have to stop following politics all together and simply tune out for a couple months. This is one of those times.

I mean, I already know how it's all going to end. The media will talk about how both sides need to compromise, ignoring the fact that it's only the Democrats who ever do, our policies will continue to shift ever rightward, and the Democrats will get all the blame.

So why should I waste my time even paying attention to this shit?

Its not so bad if you just stop paying attention to the daily bs coming from the so called "media" on tv and radio I think a lot of us here have just outright stopped watching cable news altogether because that stuff will drive you mad.

 

[Lord_Byron28]

Found the poll

45% teabaggers support higher taxes, which is a lot higher than I thought. I mean, TEA = taxed enough already, amirite

Wait I just realized why is the majority of Tea Party supporters liberal? Why are liberal people voting for extremely far right tea partiers? Are people really this stupid?

 

[Arrowgigantic]

Are people really this stupid?

No, you are just bad at reading poll data.

 

[GaimeGuy]

Wait I just realized why is the majority of Tea Party supporters liberal? Why are liberal people voting for extremely far right tea partiers? Are people really this stupid?

huh?

 

[polyh3dron]

Every now and again there's some event in Washington that leaves such a bad taste in my mouth that I have to stop following politics all together and simply tune out for a couple months. This is one of those times.

I mean, I already know how it's all going to end. The media will talk about how both sides need to compromise, ignoring the fact that it's only the Democrats who ever do, our policies will continue to shift ever rightward, and the Democrats will get all the blame.

So why should I waste my time even paying attention to this shit?

Yep this is the real effect that our shitty news media's false equivalence policy has on our country.

 

[Clevinger]

Wait I just realized why is the majority of Tea Party supporters liberal? Why are liberal people voting for extremely far right tea partiers? Are people really this stupid?

That and wanting things like Medicare are the only ways in which Tea Partiers are liberal. And yeah, they're kind of stupid to rail against government socialism, yet demand that they don't touch Medicare and whatever other welfare programs they use.

 

[KevinRo]

Being a Republican I'm readily to admit that inorder to advert this retarded disaster we need compromises on both sides (adding taxes and cutting some social spending). We can't have our Senate Majority Leader saying this:

“Unless there is a compromise or they accept my bill, we’re headed for economic disaster,” Reid said.

3 days before the fucking debt deadline. This is getting too close and too political.

*edit*

That and wanting things like Medicare are the only ways in which Tea Partiers are liberal. And yeah, they're kind of stupid to rail against government socialism, yet demand that they don't touch Medicare and whatever other welfare programs they use.

It's actually the opposite...

Republicans, want some cuts from SS, medicare/aid but the Democrats aren't budging. The Democrats want cuts in Military and higher taxes, but the Republicans don't want higher taxes. Basically the Democrats think we can cut spending without cutting spending in 3 of the top 4 highest spending programs and they want more taxes.

 

[Cygnus X-1]

For reference, this is how German media reports on the issue:

"Annihilating Democracy with the Tea Party"

Tea Party's representants are totally crazy.

 

[GaimeGuy]

Being a Republican I'm readily to admit that inorder to advert this retarded disaster we need compromises on both sides (adding taxes and cutting some social spending). We can't have our Senate Majority Leader saying this:



3 days before the fucking debt deadline. This is getting too close and too political.

but his bill has no increased taxes....

 

[polyh3dron]

This is why you don't begin negotiating from a weak position. For all the Dems' commendable pre-compromising, the general public still thinks they should compromise somewhere between their already compromised position and the GOP's extreme position.

False fucking equivalence.

 

[BruiserBear]

And intellectually lazy people love to act above the fray and think everything is equally bad and partisan.

Was my statement inaccurate?

 

[Cygnus X-1]

I really love how they are "destroying Democracy" by doing what they said they would do when elected by the people.

That's absolutely right. That's why you have only to blame yourself and people like you when default will bring the economy of the States to the hell once again.

Two days and some hours to go.

 

[Bulbo Urethral Baggins]

That's absolutely right. That's why you have only to blame yourself and people like you when default will bring the economy of the States to the hell once again.

Two days and some hours to go.

There will be no default no matter what happens in 2 days.

 

[Zabka]

Being a Republican I'm readily to admit that inorder to advert this retarded disaster we need compromises on both sides (adding taxes and cutting some social spending). We can't have our Senate Majority Leader saying this:



3 days before the fucking debt deadline. This is getting too close and too political.

I'm not seeing the problem with this. Just saying "a compromise" covers a huge spectrum of possible bills. What other options are there? All he's saying is "Let's do what I want, or we do something else".

And really increasing the debt limit shouldn't require any compromises. This whole crisis is completely manufactured by the Republican Party. The bill should be one line.

"Raise the debt limit".

If Obama hadn't been such a horrible negotiator from day one then they wouldn't have pulled this shit with him.

 

[Averon]

I think Obama have no choice but to invoke the 14th. If Boehner had to put the damn BBA back into his bill to just barely get it passed, there is no way he can pass a compromise bill in the House. And Boehner has shown he'd rather let us default than risk his speakership.

 

[KevinRo]

but his bill has no increased taxes....

Listen, everyone knows his bill is shit. Even the U.S.S. Committee on the budget thinks so:
http://dailycaller.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/2011-07-29ReidLetter.pdf

 

[Cygnus X-1]

There will be no default no matter what happens in 2 days.

So is the entire worldwide press wrong and you are right? Tell me why.

 

[KevinRo]

I'm not seeing the problem with this. Just saying "a compromise" covers a huge spectrum of possible bills. What other options are there? All he's saying is "Let's do what I want, or we do something else".

And really increasing the debt limit shouldn't require any compromises. This whole crisis is completely manufactured by the Republican Party. The bill should be one line.

"Raise the debt limit".

If Obama hadn't been such a horrible negotiator from day one then they wouldn't have pulled this shit with him.

You're not understanding.

We can't just raise the debt limit this time. Investors, foreign markets, EVERYONE is looking at us now. Many companies have already stated if there aren't major cuts to ours pending, our AAA rating will be downgraded.

 

[state-of-the-art]

Posting articles from foreign media outlets only fuels the persecution complex that is prevailing in the conservative movement right now.

 

[BruiserBear]

So is the entire worldwide press wrong and you are right? Tell me why.

Did you ever consider the press has to sell newspapers? These politicians are playing games, and they will come to a deal in time. I don't have a doubt in my mind.

 

[Zabka]

You're not understanding.

We can't just raise the debt limit this time. Investors, foreign markets, EVERYONE is looking at us now. Many companies have already stated if there aren't major cuts to ours pending, our AAA rating will be downgraded.

It's been raised 74 times in 40 years but THIS time is the one that matters, right?

 

[Cyan]

So is the entire worldwide press wrong and you are right? Tell me why.

There'll be no default because payments to bondholders will continue. Those payments will be the highest priority.

 

[Measley]

Breaking: House rejected the senate plan.

 

[Jonm1010]

There will be no default no matter what happens in 2 days.

Not right away, no. And most likely the interest on the debt will get payed first. But if nothing is reached it is very much true that our credit rating will dive down and that most likely it will be harder to borrow and possibly raise interest rates on our debts and interest rates all around the economy.

But it very much is true that if a deal isnt hammered out by Aug 2 that the stock market would plummet. And the global economy would probably go into a mild to severe panic. Further out if a compromise isnt met it will mean many things wont get funded in government and those problems will no doubt have far reaching unintended consequences.

 

[Cygnus X-1]

Did you ever consider the press has to sell newspapers? These politicians are playing games, and they will come to a deal in time. I don't have a doubt in my mind.

That's another story you know.

Breaking: House rejected the senate plan.

What a surprise.

 

[A Human Becoming]

Breaking: House rejected the senate plan.

Shock and awe. Well, default incoming folks!

 

[videogamer]

Did you ever consider the press has to sell newspapers? These politicians are playing games, and they will come to a deal in time. I don't have a doubt in my mind.

just because a paper has to sell newspapers doesn't mean it is wrong

 

[Bulbo Urethral Baggins]

So is the entire worldwide press wrong and you are right? Tell me why.

See jonm1010's post. We only have to pay interest on bonds to avoid default, which amounts to around $200 billion I think.

 

[Jonm1010]

Breaking: House rejected the senate plan.

So taking bets now, how far do the democrats bend over and take it in terms of more republican concessions before they try this again?

 

[Aaron Strife]

Wait I just realized why is the majority of Tea Party supporters liberal? Why are liberal people voting for extremely far right tea partiers? Are people really this stupid?

Are you reading the 84% as 84% of tea partiers are liberal? I don't think that's referring to the teabaggers, just the overall makeup of the poll and how liberals view the issues.

It's basically common knowledge that a decent-sized majority wants taxes to go up on the rich, but the GOP confounds the issue by making it so either taxes go up for everybody or nobody.

The best thing Democrats could have done last year is have a separate vote on extending the tax cuts for the rich and for the poor/middle-class, but do the rich tax cuts first. The GOP was so adamant about keeping the upper income brackets low that they voted down middle-class tax cuts when they were separated - would they have similarly thrown the rich under a bus? Probably not.

So who's up for moving to Canada?

 

[Lord_Byron28]

No, you are just bad at reading poll data.

Wowza I don't know how I missed things that badly. For some reason I thought it broke the Tea Party supporters down to moderate and Liberal supporters.

Are you reading the 84% as 84% of tea partiers are liberal? I don't think that's referring to the teabaggers, just the overall makeup of the poll and how liberals view the issues.

Exactly what I did. I completely missed the percentages next to the Tea Party and thought the poll was trying to say there were both Liberal and Moderate Tea Partiers. I was very confused.

 

[Piecake]

So taking bets now, how far do the democrats bend over and take it in terms of more republican concessions before they try this again?

I sure hope they don't. I am getting sick of that bulltshit

 

[A Human Becoming]

See jonm1010's post. We only have to pay interest on bonds to avoid default, which amounts to around $200 billion I think.

But doesn't the US Treasury only have $172 billion to spend for August without the debt ceiling raised?

 

[Baraka in the White House]

Alright, PoliGAF, I'm gonna need some help here.

I've got a family member that's your typical uninformed, disillusioned, I-hate-all-politicians citizen who thinks there's nothing to be gained by trying to keep up with our government's workings who, naturally, doesn't vote.

But he's willing to try and change that. Naturally I don't want to just tell him to watch cable news because that'll just breed more disillusionment and a sense that, "No one is working together," which is bullshit but I also don't want to offer up Drudge Report or Huffington Post either. He barely knows the philosophical differences between Republican and Democratic ideology and is currently convinced it's just two sides of the same shitty coin. I don't want to make a conservative or a liberal out of him, I just want him to understand a little about what's going on - particularly with the debt debate - and hopefully make him realize that not being involved and not voting is how debacles such as this are allowed to happen.

Where do you start with someone so disaffected?

 

[polyh3dron]

Boehner and McConnell are live now.

Feces flying out of their mouths as usual.

 

[Jonm1010]

But doesn't the US Treasury only have $172 billion to spend for August without the debt ceiling raised?

To be perfectly frank I was just repeating what I heard on the BBC and CNN yesterday. I havent seen the actual numbers or anything so my assessment could be wrong.

 

[Trouble]

Boehner and McConnell are live now.

Boehner is working the "it's Obama's fault" angle pretty fucking hard.

 

[Measley]

So Reid's bill has no tax increases, and increases cuts to spending higher than Boehner's bill.

So why exactly was the senate bill rejected by the House?