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[polyh3dron]

So Reid's bill has no tax increases, and increases cuts to spending higher than Boehner's bill.

So why exactly was the senate bill rejected by the House?

Those stubborn Democrats are refusing to compromise and sent the House a my-way-or-the-highway bill. OBVIOUSLY such a partisan bill won't pass.

The President needs to get his party in line.

^^^ Unfortunately, that is actually the Republican stance.

 

[Averon]

So Reid's bill has no tax increases, and increases cuts to spending higher than Boehner's bill.

So why exactly was the senate bill rejected by the House?

No BBA; it was proposed by a Democrat; no two-step process

 

[Escape Goat]

Alright, PoliGAF, I'm gonna need some help here.

I've got a family member that's your typical uninformed, disillusioned, I-hate-all-politicians citizen who thinks there's nothing to be gained by trying to keep up with our government's workings who, naturally, doesn't vote.

But he's willing to try and change that. Naturally I don't want to just tell him to watch cable news because that'll just breed more disillusionment and a sense that, "No one is working together," which is bullshit but I also don't want to offer up Drudge Report or Huffington Post either. He barely knows the philosophical differences between Republican and Democratic ideology and is currently convinced it's just two sides of the same shitty coin. I don't want to make a conservative or a liberal out of him, I just want him to understand a little about what's going on - particularly with the debt debate - and hopefully make him realize that not being involved and not voting is how debacles such as this are allowed to happen.

Where do you start with someone so disaffected?

Tell him to do his own research? If he cares enough to know he should put in some effort.

 

[Particle Physicist]

So Reid's bill has no tax increases, and increases cuts to spending higher than Boehner's bill.

So why exactly was the senate bill rejected by the House?

Because it doesn't contain deep cuts to entitlements (SS, Medicare, Medicaid), and it doesn't postpone this shit for 6 months.

Republicans only care about getting into the white house and are trying everything and anything they can to ruin Obama's chances. I hope this ends up biting them in the ass.

 

[Oblivion]

Huh, seems the DailyKos is mad at the 12 Dems who opposed to the Reid bill. Is the Reid bill different in some sense than it was before? Surprised they would support it if it didn't have something good for them.

 

[BruiserBear]

Alright, PoliGAF, I'm gonna need some help here.

I've got a family member that's your typical uninformed, disillusioned, I-hate-all-politicians citizen who thinks there's nothing to be gained by trying to keep up with our government's workings who, naturally, doesn't vote.

But he's willing to try and change that. Naturally I don't want to just tell him to watch cable news because that'll just breed more disillusionment and a sense that, "No one is working together," which is bullshit but I also don't want to offer up Drudge Report or Huffington Post either. He barely knows the philosophical differences between Republican and Democratic ideology and is currently convinced it's just two sides of the same shitty coin. I don't want to make a conservative or a liberal out of him, I just want him to understand a little about what's going on - particularly with the debt debate - and hopefully make him realize that not being involved and not voting is how debacles such as this are allowed to happen.

Where do you start with someone so disaffected?

No. Voting is actually EXACTLY how we find ourselves in this situation. The average person isn't that smart, so they end up voting for stupid people who do stupid things, and then a few decades later you find your country 15 trillion dollars in debt, with future projections showing that number skyrocketing over the next 20 years.

Even many of the people who think they're up on the facts, often choose to get their news from sources that only reinforce their established opinions. Thus nothing changes.

 

[Measley]

No. Voting is actually EXACTLY how we find ourselves in this situation. The average person isn't that smart, so they end up voting for stupid people who do stupid things, and then a few decades later you find your country 15 trillion dollars in debt, with future projections showing that number skyrocketing over the next 20 years.

Even many of the people who think they're up on the facts, often choose to get their news from sources that only reinforce their established opinions. Thus nothing changes.

Honestly I think the epitome of stupidity is electing someone who hates government, public workers, and government benefits into a powerful government job with tons of government benefits.

 

[Jonm1010]

So Reid's bill has no tax increases, and increases cuts to spending higher than Boehner's bill.

So why exactly was the senate bill rejected by the House?

It has minor defense cuts, minor cuts to oil and big agri subsidies and doesnt gut student loans and grants.

This shit needs to be bared out by the old, the poor, and the college kids not the job creators and job providers dontcha know.

 

[Cyan]

Even many of the people who think they're up on the facts, often choose to get their news from sources that only reinforce their established opinions. Thus nothing changes.

Hell, I'd say most. Not just conservatives with Fox; we all tend to seek out things that confirm our already-held opinions, at least to some extent.

 

[A Human Becoming]

Boehner is working the "it's Obama's fault" angle pretty fucking hard.

One of the few things he's good at doing.

Even many of the people who think they're up on the facts, often choose to get their news from sources that only reinforce their established opinions. Thus nothing changes.

Human nature.

 

[Lord_Byron28]

Alright, PoliGAF, I'm gonna need some help here.

I've got a family member that's your typical uninformed, disillusioned, I-hate-all-politicians citizen who thinks there's nothing to be gained by trying to keep up with our government's workings who, naturally, doesn't vote.

But he's willing to try and change that. Naturally I don't want to just tell him to watch cable news because that'll just breed more disillusionment and a sense that, "No one is working together," which is bullshit but I also don't want to offer up Drudge Report or Huffington Post either. He barely knows the philosophical differences between Republican and Democratic ideology and is currently convinced it's just two sides of the same shitty coin. I don't want to make a conservative or a liberal out of him, I just want him to understand a little about what's going on - particularly with the debt debate - and hopefully make him realize that not being involved and not voting is how debacles such as this are allowed to happen.

Where do you start with someone so disaffected?

I'd maybe first tell him to take a political alignment test. There are a few good ones on the internet. While it's not 100% accurate you can generally get a basic idea.

Also this article right here provides facts and background info of the mess we are in currently. http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/07/28/us/charting-the-american-debt-crisis.html?ref=politics

You can try to explain the situation in layman's terms or you can have him research on his own. Just warn him to avoid certain outlets like Fox or Huffington post that skew and lean towards different political agendas and also encourage him to not believe someone if they aren't stating hard cold undeniable facts. In fact, I'd encourage him to not believe in what politicians tell him to believe in general and research the facts and come to his own conclusion.

 

[Baraka in the White House]

Tell him to do his own research? If he cares enough to know he should put in some effort.

That's the problem, he doesn't care. He's expressed a willingness to try but I'm fairly certain, "Go do your own research" is a pretty good way to get him to continue to not care. He needs a starting point.

 

[Cygnus X-1]

So Reid's bill has no tax increases, and increases cuts to spending higher than Boehner's bill.

So why exactly was the senate bill rejected by the House?

Didn't you notice that this debate has nothing to do with the country or the debt? It is a pure idealogical battle between people who speak two different languages. There is no will to reach a deal.

 

[Jonm1010]

Hell, I'd say most. Not just conservatives with Fox; we all tend to seek out things that confirm our already-held opinions, at least to some extent.

Thing is to be cognizant of it and do your best to seek out opposing arguments and be careful with the source of news you use.

Easier said than done I know.

 

[Averon]

That's the problem, he doesn't care. He's expressed a willingness to try but I'm fairly certain, "Go do your own research" is a pretty good way to get to continue to not care. He needs a starting point.

As long as the public have that attitude, we're fucked as a country.

 

[Cygnus X-1]

As long as the public have that attitude, we're fucked as a country.

People have that attitude because they are watching what's happening now and maybe they realize it's better to think if their own lives first.

 

[Baraka in the White House]

As long as the public have that attitude, we're fucked as a country.

Right, but how? I worked with newspapers and pretty much had to keep up with the basics of our government. Most people are immediately concerned with their day-to-day life (and rightfully so, especially these days) and have only heard that government is totally fucked up and not doing what the people want, which brews disgust and disillusionment. It's a vicious cycle that I can only guess will be broken one person at a time. So how do you start that one person down the road toward knowledge and - hopefully - toward giving a damn?

Also this article right here provides facts and background info of the mess we are in currently. http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/07/28/us/charting-the-american-debt-crisis.html?ref=politics

This is a good start, thanks.

 

[Gary Whitta]

Just turned on CNN to see if I could get the latest updates on this story, they're showing a feature on the new Smurfs movie. Thanks, cable news!

 

[Measley]

Well, only one thing left;

Shut it down!

 

[Oblivion]

Okay, I keep hearing from the Tea Baggers that the U.S. won't "default", because it still has the ability to make interest payments and shit. Okay, I'm not exactly sure of the specifics, but even if that's the case that we can still make ALL our payments, how much longer can we keep it up?

 

[TacticalFox88]

House rejects the bill? Whoat a surprise. 14th Amendment Go, Go, Go!

 

[perfectchaos007]

So now what?

 

[Suikoguy]

Okay, I keep hearing from the Tea Baggers that the U.S. won't "default", because it still has the ability to make interest payments and shit. Okay, I'm not exactly sure of the specifics, but even if that's the case that we can still make ALL our payments, how much longer can we keep it up?

Oh, it WILL get interesting when seniors stop getting their Social Security checks next week.

 

[PhoenixDark]

They rejected a generic Reid bill; it was a symbolic, meaningless vote. He hasn't even submitted his bill to the senate

 

[Cygnus X-1]

So now what?

Dunno. I'm not the president. He should take some drastic measure I suppose.

 

[Escape Goat]

Iraq decides that warplanes are better than food rations - buys 36 F-16s from the US

 

[Cygnus X-1]

They rejected a generic Reid bill; it was a symbolic, meaningless vote. He hasn't even submitted his bill to the senate

The entire debate has been symbolic-based from the very beginning you know. A circus would be a more serious place.

 

[OmniOne]

They rejected a generic Reid bill; it was a symbolic, meaningless vote. He hasn't even submitted his bill to the senate

Not only that, they brought the bill up under House rules that require 2/3's majority to pass.

Boehner's own bill wouldn't have passed under the same rules.

 

[NullPointer]

Oh, it WILL get interesting when seniors stop getting their Social Security checks next week.

I'm sure they'll understand. We just can't afford Social Security anymore, so we've had to discontinue it.

Tea Party paradise here I come!

 

[A Human Becoming]

The House is despicable today. Childish behavior on both sides.

 

[Measley]

Obama should just let the government shut down. To hell with it. Let people realize exactly what the government does, and what happens when vital services get taken away.

 

[Mercury Fred]

Posting articles from foreign media outlets only fuels the persecution complex that is prevailing in the conservative movement right now.

Right now?

These scumbags act persecuted even when they control the presidency and both houses.

 

[Baby Milo]

so wtf is gonna happen next week?

 

[Escape Goat]

so wtf is gonna happen next week?

Obama starts getting calls from debt collectors at the dinner table.

 

[A Human Becoming]

so wtf is gonna happen next week?

More likely:

 

[TacticalFox88]

Take out North Korea...and that Homefront timeline all of a sudden doesn't seem so farfetched. Holy shit.

 

[Chichikov]

Obama should just let the government shut down. To hell with it. Let people realize exactly what the government does, and what happens when vital services get taken away.

Let's kill some poor people to prove a point!

 

[SomeDude]

EMPIRES ALWAYS FALL.

 

[Averon]

Let's kill some poor people to prove a point!

Not that I agree with him but it looks like the poor are fucked either way. Government defaults? They're screwed. Pass compromise bill--which will have steep cuts to services--and they're screwed still.

 

[Chichikov]

EMPIRES ALWAYS FALL.

UNLESS THEY’RE THE FIRST TO COMPLETE ALL OF THE COMPONENTS NECESSARY TO SEND COLONISTS OFF INTO SPACE TO FOUND A NEW COLONY ON ALPHA CENTAURI.

 

[entremet]

This is embarrassing and totally preventable. I just hope people realize how important voting is after this ridiculousness.

 

[SomeDude]

UNLESS THEY’RE THE FIRST TO COMPLETE ALL OF THE COMPONENTS NECESSARY TO SEND COLONISTS OFF INTO SPACE TO FOUND A NEW COLONY ON ALPHA CENTAURI.

I'm not fringe. And yes, we are and empire. We have military bases all over the world. We currently mame and kill people from all over the world.

 

[Measley]

Let's kill some poor people to prove a point!

http://www.facebook.com/teapartypatriots

They need a wake up call.

 

[NullPointer]

UNLESS THEY’RE THE FIRST TO COMPLETE ALL OF THE COMPONENTS NECESSARY TO SEND COLONISTS OFF INTO SPACE TO FOUND A NEW COLONY ON ALPHA CENTAURI.

Indeed. I've been trying to convince people that the Space victory is the way to go for decades now.

 

[InsaneZero]

UNLESS THEY’RE THE FIRST TO COMPLETE ALL OF THE COMPONENTS NECESSARY TO SEND COLONISTS OFF INTO SPACE TO FOUND A NEW COLONY ON ALPHA CENTAURI.

Utopia route > Tech route. Always.

Unfortunately, it's impossible for the overprivileged people of an empire to be happy.

 

[Baby Milo]

how is this gonna effect the average person?

what should we be expecting to immediately happen in the next week or so?

 

[Chichikov]

http://www.facebook.com/teapartypatriots

They need a wake up call.

I'm a humanist, and as such, I even care about people who disagree with me politically.

Utopia route > Tech route. Always.

Unfortunately, it's impossible for the overprivileged people of an empire to be happy.

Culture victory is for hippies.
I win strategy games the same way the US wins wars.
Superior technology and industry that can overcome my really terrible tactical execution.

 

[Aaron Strife]

Didn't you notice that this debate has nothing to do with the country or the debt? It is a pure idealogical battle between people who speak two different languages. There is no will to reach a deal.

It's not even an ideological battle.

Unless the ideology is "US should default" and "US probably maybe shouldn't default" in which case yes. Yes it is.

 

[SomeDude]

If the US actually did default we should start talking about breaking the country up imo.


There is already a movement for washington, oregon and british columbia to become its own country.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

If the US actually did default we should start talking about breaking the country up imo.


There is already a movement for washington, oregon and british columbia to become its own country.

You don´t only want to break up the US, but you want to invade and break up Canada too. WTF man. How do you know that British Columbia wants to be a part of Washington and Oregon?