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[segarr]

Can't wait for Obama to tell us how amazing this "compromise" is, and how cooler heads prevailed etc etc we can do anything we're America blah blah.

This is like haggling over whether your 15 year old kid can stay out until 3AM or 5AM.

Well, part of the President's job is to be a salesman. I can't stand the "we can do anything, we're Americans" crap but middle America just eats that up.

I don't understand the analogy...

 

[PhoenixDark]

Well, part of the President's job is to be a salesman. I can't stand the "we can do anything, we're Americans" crap but middle America just eats that up.

I don't understand the analogy...

Neither option is acceptable or responsible, and the "compromise" has been moved so far in one party's favor it can't even be called a compromise; it's an irresponsible cede of authority.

I get that there's not much Obama or any president could do in this situation. And yet I can't help but think this has been handled quite poorly and goes down as another example of Obama displaying weakness. Tweet your congressman? Seriously? Constitutional scholars have said the 14th amendment is possible, and is already being used to some extent, yet the WH took it off the table the minute the issue came up. Why not use it as leverage? Regardless the ball is in the democrat's court and they're dropping it.

 

[The Chosen One]

Might as well be an optimist in light of what is probably the most corrupt and incompetent (what a combo) Congress in modern American history.

It doesn't matter if you kicked Obama out and put in Bill Clinton. Bring back JFK, LBJ or FDR; even the juggarnauts of the US Democratic Presidency could not stop these asshats. Seriously.

By getting too upset with Obama (I'm not saying he's perfect in all of this, but he's the last person anyone should be blaming) you are giving the GOP exactly what they want.

This.

This truly is the most dysfunctional congress in modern times and that's saying a lot...

Obama has the tools to be a good President and under normal times he probably would be ranking among the best. He's intelligent, pragmatic, and has charisma. Unfortunately you'd probably need a Pit Bull for a president to tame this Congress and even then that might not be enough.

I think the main problem for Obama is that early on the narrow/near super majority they had in the Senate was Fool's Gold. Instead of planning their strategy around just getting a simple majority (use reconciliation if necessary), they kept kowtowing to Blue Dogs and 2-3 Republicans to get a "bipartisan" or filibuster-proof vote. They should have forced Republicans to actually Filibuster on the floor the Stimulus or Healthcare Reform. Instead the GOP just had to give the threat and Dems went retreating. As a result, there are a lot of water-downed bills that still didn't get Republican votes and now Obama's main policies aren't nearly as strong or attractive as they could be.

 

[Kusagari]

Has Romney said anything either way on the budget? I'm curious.

 

[The Chosen One]

Constitutional scholars have said the 14th amendment is possible, and is already being used to some extent, yet the WH took it off the table the minute the issue came up. Why not use it as leverage? Regardless the ball is in the democrat's court and they're dropping it.

The minute Obama publicly puts that option on the table, that would stop the legislation process to a halt. The House would start putting abortion bans, corporate poodle tax credits, and other nonsense into the bill because they know it would be a completely symbolic bill since the President will just take care of it at the end.

Obama doesn't want to admit that option is viable to every single legislative option has been exhausted.

 

[Flo_Evans]

Here is the thing. The democrats are not trying to accomplish an agenda right now, they are trying to avoid a crisis and keep the government running. Boiling that down to a tagline is difficult.

The rebublicans have "cut. cap. balance." Pretty cliche 3 adjective slogan that was a popular style for local bank branches in the mid 2000's. Still, I can recall it off the top of my head. Effective. The progression from violent immediate action to peaceful calm suggests they actually have a plan, and are ready to do it, and that by golly it just might work!

For the democrats they have what? "compromise. fold. accept blame."

 

[TacticalFox88]

The minute Obama publicly puts that option on the table, that would stop the legislation process to a halt. The House would start putting abortion bans, corporate poodle tax credits, and other nonsense into the bill because they know it would be a completely symbolic bill since the President will just take care of it at the end.

Obama doesn't want to admit that option is viable to every single legislative option has been exhausted.

He will use the 14th amendment. Unless we have some sort of miracle, Getting anything done by Tuesday is a pipe dream at best.

 

[PhoenixDark]

He will use the 14th amendment. Unless we have some sort of miracle, Getting anything done by Tuesday is a pipe dream at best.

I'm confident the ceiling will be raised. Most of what we're seeing is a show. The problem is that the house members don't want it to end.

 

[Oblivion]

 

[Joe211]

http://www.hbo.com/real-time-with-b...VpFaUsDGySSeWluQX5CRW2pYUlaZyMjKyMQIAYmwXOA==

lol at Matt Kibbe comment about the unions not letting young muslim getting a job that's total BS.

 

[teruterubozu]

I'm confident the ceiling will be raised. Most of what we're seeing is a show. The problem is that the house members don't want it to end.

It's almost impossible to visualize any kind of compromise by Tuesday. If Obama caves to the GOP his already low ratings will really hit the crapper (plus a 2012 extension would really put him in a vice before the elections). So can the debt ceiling be raised without any budget plan? Like as an emergency measure and hammer out the "details" later?

 

[Oblivion]

The money quote was when Maher said that even a 90% tax rate wasn't enough to drive Hoover and Kibbe out of the country.

 

[Joe211]

The money quote was when Maher said that even a 90% tax rate wasn't enough to drive Hoover and Kibbe out of the country.

Soulja should thank Hoover he could have paid more than 55 million for his jet.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=439023

 

[worldrunover]

I have to show this chart to my brother. He's convinced China owns more than 50% of our debt. I think a lot of people would be surprised to know that our debt is not held up in foreign countries as much as they think.

 

[BruiserBear]

Neither option is acceptable or responsible, and the "compromise" has been moved so far in one party's favor it can't even be called a compromise; it's an irresponsible cede of authority.

I get that there's not much Obama or any president could do in this situation. And yet I can't help but think this has been handled quite poorly and goes down as another example of Obama displaying weakness. Tweet your congressman? Seriously? Constitutional scholars have said the 14th amendment is possible, and is already being used to some extent, yet the WH took it off the table the minute the issue came up. Why not use it as leverage? Regardless the ball is in the democrat's court and they're dropping it.

I think they took it off the table because they fear that using that option would make him look bad. Just imagine the campaign adds citing that move. "Obama's spending got so out of control he had to raise the debt limit all on his own. No one in congress would do it with him".

 

[Clevinger]

I think they took it off the table because they fear that using that option would make him look bad. Just imagine the campaign adds citing that move. "Obama's spending got so out of control he had to raise the debt limit all on his own. No one in congress would do it with him".

They took it off the table because the Republican House would undoubtedly impeach him.

Regardless, I don't think it's completely off the table. If it comes down to the last minute and Congress still hasn't acted, he'll use it.

 

[Particle Physicist]

This.

This truly is the most dysfunctional congress in modern times and that's saying a lot...

Obama has the tools to be a good President and under normal times he probably would be ranking among the best. He's intelligent, pragmatic, and has charisma. Unfortunately you'd probably need a Pit Bull for a president to tame this Congress and even then that might not be enough.

I think the main problem for Obama is that early on the narrow/near super majority they had in the Senate was Fool's Gold. Instead of planning their strategy around just getting a simple majority (use reconciliation if necessary), they kept kowtowing to Blue Dogs and 2-3 Republicans to get a "bipartisan" or filibuster-proof vote. They should have forced Republicans to actually Filibuster on the floor the Stimulus or Healthcare Reform. Instead the GOP just had to give the threat and Dems went retreating. As a result, there are a lot of water-downed bills that still didn't get Republican votes and now Obama's main policies aren't nearly as strong or attractive as they could be.

As far as I am aware, that is no longer necessary in order to actually Filibuster a bill.

 

[Milchjon]

I have to show this chart to my brother. He's convinced China owns more than 50% of our debt. I think a lot of people would be surprised to know that our debt is not held up in foreign countries as much as they think.

That's still a shitload of money you owe to China, though. It's half of Germany's OVERALL debt, for instance.

 

[Learn2read]

As far as I am aware, that is no longer necessary in order to actually Filibuster a bill.

It is if the majority wants it to be, but they now have a "gentlemanly" agreement.

 

[Milchjon]

For reference, this is how German media reports on the issue:

"Annihilating Democracy with the Tea Party"

 

[Manmademan]

That's still a shitload of money you owe to China, though. It's half of Germany's OVERALL debt, for instance.

germany's overall GDP (3.3 trillion) is only a fraction of that of the US though.

 

[Milchjon]

germany's overall GDP (3.3 trillion) is only a fraction of that of the US though.

Sure, I know that. I still think we have to keep in mind just how much money that is in absolute numbers.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

For reference, this is how German media reports on the issue:

"Annihilating Democracy with the Tea Party"

Someone reports the truth

 

[Dan]

As far as I am aware, that is no longer necessary in order to actually Filibuster a bill.

Yeah, that's not a rule or anything. Democrats have just become stupid and the minute they hear that someone plans to filibuster, they drop the vote. I'm convinced our legislative situation would be quite different if the public got to see some of these assholes try and filibuster bills that most people like. But Dems just shy away from the confrontation the minute a filibuster is threatened instead of making Republicans be held accountable for it.

 

[Bulbo Urethral Baggins]

For reference, this is how German media reports on the issue:

"Annihilating Democracy with the Tea Party"

Lol. Wow. What a joke. The sad thing is that some people may take that article at face value.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

Lol. Wow. What a joke. The sad thing is that some people may take that article at face value.

What they are saying is right, Tea Party has held the US hostage this past week.

 

[Mercury Fred]

Lol. Wow. What a joke. The sad thing is that some people may take that article at face value.

Nah. It's actually right on the money. Glad to know Republicans in general and in particular the Tea Party continue to make the U.S. the laughingstock of the civilized world.

 

[teruterubozu]

Lol. Wow. What a joke. The sad thing is that some people may take that article at face value.

The unbending Tea Party is all about taking them at face value.

 

[Clevinger]

Lol. Wow. What a joke. The sad thing is that some people may take that article at face value.

I kinda feel bad for you.

 

[Chumly]

Lol. Wow. What a joke. The sad thing is that some people may take that article at face value.

Actually the article hits it right on the head. The only joke is republicans who are too blind to see this fact.

 

[Milchjon]

Lol. Wow. What a joke. The sad thing is that some people may take that article at face value.

It actually sounds right in line with what I've read and heard across several (American) media outlets. What exactly do you think is wrong about the article?

 

[Bulbo Urethral Baggins]

Nah. It's actually right on the money. Glad to know Republicans in general and in particular the Tea Party continue to make the U.S. the laughingstock of the civilized world.

I couldn't stop laughing while reading that stupid shit. It reads like an Onion piece. And it's even funnier to read it with a German accent.

I really love how they are "destroying Democracy" by doing what they said they would do when elected by the people.

 

[BruiserBear]

People love slanted journalism, as long as it's in line with their personal opinion.

 

[Clevinger]

People love slanted journalism, as long as it's in line with their personal opinion.

And intellectually lazy people love to act above the fray and think everything is equally bad and partisan.

 

[Chumly]

People love slanted journalism, as long as it's in line with their personal opinion.

Which is why all republicans watch fox news. That and they can't handle the truth.

 

[Milchjon]

And intellectually lazy people love to act above the fray and think everything is equally bad and partisan.

Haha, yeah. But overcoming that is pretty hard, as I've realised in the last few years, because you have to really know your stuff if you want to take sides based on knowledge.
But I'm trying to work on it...

 

[Zenith]

For reference, this is how German media reports on the issue:

"Annihilating Democracy with the Tea Party"

UK media: "Tea Party holds US – and the world – to ransom"

 

[Shake Appeal]

UK media: "Tea Party holds US – and the world – to ransom"

Irish media: Bachmann and her cohorts have the US by its economic throat

 

[Bulbo Urethral Baggins]

Irish media: Bachmann and her cohorts have the US by its economic throat

Much better articles IMO.

 

[Milchjon]

Much better articles IMO.

Keep in mind that the SPIEGEL article was a commentary. Of course there's slightly more balanced reporting, too, but this was the only article in English.
Although it still doesn't differ that much in it's core content from what the other links are saying, does it?

 

[Measley]

For reference, this is how German media reports on the issue:

"Annihilating Democracy with the Tea Party"

"President Barack Obama wants to improve schools, whereas the Tea Party would prefer to see many state-run schools eliminated. Obama wants to invest in clean energy; the Tea Party denies the existence of climate change. The president wants to make trillions in cuts; but the Tea Party refuses to approve a dollar more in taxes, even on the very rich."

Damn. Right on the money.

 

[RustyNails]

"President Barack Obama wants to improve schools, whereas the Tea Party would prefer to see many state-run schools eliminated. Obama wants to invest in clean energy; the Tea Party denies the existence of climate change. The president wants to make trillions in cuts; but the Tea Party refuses to approve a dollar more in taxes, even on the very rich."

Damn. Right on the money.

I thought even the teabaggers were ok with taxing the mega rich? I'm pretty sure I saw a poll somewhere.

 

[dabig2]

I thought even the teabaggers were ok with taxing the mega rich? I'm pretty sure I saw a poll somewhere.

Maybe the peons. Not the overlords.

 

[Drakeon]

I thought even the teabaggers were ok with taxing the mega rich? I'm pretty sure I saw a poll somewhere.

Pretty sure the Teabaggers aren't ok with any sort of tax increase on anyone ever.

 

[Measley]

I thought even the teabaggers were ok with taxing the mega rich? I'm pretty sure I saw a poll somewhere.

The American people support it, but the nutty Tea Party caucus in the U.S. congress oppose it.

They signed a pledge stating that there will be no tax increases ever in any situation.

i.e. The Grover Norquist pledge.

 

[Bulbo Urethral Baggins]

Here's another article you guys may enjoy.
Tea party taliban

Ten years ago, the Taliban in Afghanistan destroyed two gigantic figures of Buddha, carved into a hillside 18 centuries before. The world was aghast at this barbarian act taken in the name of religious purity. But was powerless to stop it.

We now have a group of U.S. politicians seeking political purity, who seem to have much in common with the Taliban. They are tea party members

 

[Milchjon]

Here's another article you guys may enjoy.
Tea party taliban

Apart from the hyperbolic intro/comparison, most of the article is actually pretty reasonable?!?

 

[Chumly]

Here's another article you guys may enjoy.
Tea party taliban

Did you bother to read beyond the first two paragraphs?

 

[speculawyer]

I couldn't stop laughing while reading that stupid shit. It reads like an Onion piece. And it's even funnier to read it with a German accent.

I really love how they are "destroying Democracy" by doing what they said they would do when elected by the people.

So far you haven't disputed any facts in the article. Is it just 'emotionally wrong' for you? Is it that damn liberal bias reality?

 

[RustyNails]

Pretty sure the Teabaggers aren't ok with any sort of tax increase on anyone ever.

Found the poll

45% teabaggers support higher taxes, which is a lot higher than I thought. I mean, TEA = taxed enough already, amirite