PoliGAF 2011: Of Weiners, Boehners, Santorum, and Teabags
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PhoenixDark
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segarr said:
Neither option is acceptable or responsible, and the "compromise" has been moved so far in one party's favor it can't even be called a compromise; it's an irresponsible cede of authority.
I get that there's not much Obama or any president could do in this situation. And yet I can't help but think this has been handled quite poorly and goes down as another example of Obama displaying weakness. Tweet your congressman? Seriously? Constitutional scholars have said the 14th amendment is possible, and is already being used to some extent, yet the WH took it off the table the minute the issue came up. Why not use it as leverage? Regardless the ball is in the democrat's court and they're dropping it.
The Chosen One
Member
Diablos said:
This.
This truly is the most dysfunctional congress in modern times and that's saying a lot...
Obama has the tools to be a good President and under normal times he probably would be ranking among the best. He's intelligent, pragmatic, and has charisma. Unfortunately you'd probably need a Pit Bull for a president to tame this Congress and even then that might not be enough.
I think the main problem for Obama is that early on the narrow/near super majority they had in the Senate was Fool's Gold. Instead of planning their strategy around just getting a simple majority (use reconciliation if necessary), they kept kowtowing to Blue Dogs and 2-3 Republicans to get a "bipartisan" or filibuster-proof vote. They should have forced Republicans to actually Filibuster on the floor the Stimulus or Healthcare Reform. Instead the GOP just had to give the threat and Dems went retreating. As a result, there are a lot of water-downed bills that still didn't get Republican votes and now Obama's main policies aren't nearly as strong or attractive as they could be.
The Chosen One
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PhoenixDark said:
The minute Obama publicly puts that option on the table, that would stop the legislation process to a halt. The House would start putting abortion bans, corporate poodle tax credits, and other nonsense into the bill because they know it would be a completely symbolic bill since the President will just take care of it at the end.
Obama doesn't want to admit that option is viable to every single legislative option has been exhausted.
Here is the thing. The democrats are not trying to accomplish an agenda right now, they are trying to avoid a crisis and keep the government running. Boiling that down to a tagline is difficult.
The rebublicans have "cut. cap. balance." Pretty cliche 3 adjective slogan that was a popular style for local bank branches in the mid 2000's. Still, I can recall it off the top of my head. Effective. The progression from violent immediate action to peaceful calm suggests they actually have a plan, and are ready to do it, and that by golly it just might work!
For the democrats they have what? "compromise. fold. accept blame."
The rebublicans have "cut. cap. balance." Pretty cliche 3 adjective slogan that was a popular style for local bank branches in the mid 2000's. Still, I can recall it off the top of my head. Effective. The progression from violent immediate action to peaceful calm suggests they actually have a plan, and are ready to do it, and that by golly it just might work!
For the democrats they have what? "compromise. fold. accept blame."
TacticalFox88
Banned
He will use the 14th amendment. Unless we have some sort of miracle, Getting anything done by Tuesday is a pipe dream at best.The Chosen One said:
PhoenixDark
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TacticalFox88 said:
I'm confident the ceiling will be raised. Most of what we're seeing is a show. The problem is that the house members don't want it to end.
teruterubozu
Member
PhoenixDark said:
It's almost impossible to visualize any kind of compromise by Tuesday. If Obama caves to the GOP his already low ratings will really hit the crapper (plus a 2012 extension would really put him in a vice before the elections). So can the debt ceiling be raised without any budget plan? Like as an emergency measure and hammer out the "details" later?
Soulja should thank Hoover he could have paid more than 55 million for his jet.Oblivion said:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=439023
worldrunover
Member
Oblivion said:
I have to show this chart to my brother. He's convinced China owns more than 50% of our debt. I think a lot of people would be surprised to know that our debt is not held up in foreign countries as much as they think.
BruiserBear
Banned
I think they took it off the table because they fear that using that option would make him look bad. Just imagine the campaign adds citing that move. "Obama's spending got so out of control he had to raise the debt limit all on his own. No one in congress would do it with him".PhoenixDark said:
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
The Chosen One said:
As far as I am aware, that is no longer necessary in order to actually Filibuster a bill.
Learn2read
Member
It is if the majority wants it to be, but they now have a "gentlemanly" agreement.quadriplegicjon said:
For reference, this is how German media reports on the issue:
"Annihilating Democracy with the Tea Party"
"Annihilating Democracy with the Tea Party"
Manmademan
Member
Milchjon said:
germany's overall GDP (3.3 trillion) is only a fraction of that of the US though.
cartoon_soldier
Member
Milchjon said:
Someone reports the truth
Yeah, that's not a rule or anything. Democrats have just become stupid and the minute they hear that someone plans to filibuster, they drop the vote. I'm convinced our legislative situation would be quite different if the public got to see some of these assholes try and filibuster bills that most people like. But Dems just shy away from the confrontation the minute a filibuster is threatened instead of making Republicans be held accountable for it.quadriplegicjon said:
Bulbo Urethral Baggins
Banned
Lol. Wow. What a joke. The sad thing is that some people may take that article at face value.Milchjon said:
cartoon_soldier
Member
Bulbo Urethral Baggins said:
What they are saying is right, Tea Party has held the US hostage this past week.
Mercury Fred
Banned
Nah. It's actually right on the money. Glad to know Republicans in general and in particular the Tea Party continue to make the U.S. the laughingstock of the civilized world.Bulbo Urethral Baggins said:
teruterubozu
Member
Bulbo Urethral Baggins said:
The unbending Tea Party is all about taking them at face value.
Bulbo Urethral Baggins
Banned
I couldn't stop laughing while reading that stupid shit. It reads like an Onion piece. And it's even funnier to read it with a German accent.Mercury Fred said:
I really love how they are "destroying Democracy" by doing what they said they would do when elected by the people.
BruiserBear
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People love slanted journalism, as long as it's in line with their personal opinion.
Shake Appeal
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Irish media: Bachmann and her cohorts have the US by its economic throatZenith said:
Bulbo Urethral Baggins
Banned
Much better articles IMO.Shake Appeal said:
Bulbo Urethral Baggins said:
Keep in mind that the SPIEGEL article was a commentary. Of course there's slightly more balanced reporting, too, but this was the only article in English.
Although it still doesn't differ that much in it's core content from what the other links are saying, does it?
Milchjon said:
"President Barack Obama wants to improve schools, whereas the Tea Party would prefer to see many state-run schools eliminated. Obama wants to invest in clean energy; the Tea Party denies the existence of climate change. The president wants to make trillions in cuts; but the Tea Party refuses to approve a dollar more in taxes, even on the very rich."
Damn. Right on the money.
RustyNails
Member
I thought even the teabaggers were ok with taxing the mega rich? I'm pretty sure I saw a poll somewhere.Measley said:
Bulbo Urethral Baggins
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speculawyer
Member
So far you haven't disputed any facts in the article. Is it just 'emotionally wrong' for you? Is it that damn liberal bias reality?Bulbo Urethral Baggins said:
RustyNails
Member
Found the pollDrakeon said:
45% teabaggers support higher taxes, which is a lot higher than I thought. I mean, TEA = taxed enough already, amirite
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