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[Clevinger]

edit: nevermind, misread

 

[Mercury Fred]

And that can be done without going, "Haha, look at the way he stretches out his hands. He's so gaaaaay!" Or like Dan Savage mocking his lisp for four minutes on his radio show.

I think Bachmann is human garbage, but it just seems odd for liberals and gay people to do this.

Fuck taking the high road. I'm sick of treating scum who makes it their mission in life to erase gay people with any shred of respect or fairness. They deserve nothing but constant mockery and derision.

I think once you call Homosexuality "barbaric" all bets are off the table.

Word.

You better step up the ground war, then, because I don't think tittering blog posts about how queeny he is are going to yield the complete and utter destruction you seek.

As I wrote upthread, there are bounties out for proof.

 

[LosDaddie]

I have to strongly disagree. Most of the churches that I have attended it was the Republican party that had the most support. Listen to how the Republican party tries to portray itself as the party of Jesus Christ. So often you'll hear that supporting the Democratic party is anti Christian. The last 30 years the Republican party has attempted a take over of the evangelical body in this country and many of the evangelical denominations have been all too willing to accept.

Being comfortable with a President being Christian is quite different than having a party trying to align itself with the extreme wing of a religious community. Democrats want voters and Christians make up millions of potential voters. Sure. But Republicans have outright sold itself to the evangelical Christian community over the last 30 years. I don't blame Republicans alone as the evangelical leaders have been all too ready to approve said partnership and benefit from it.

I can't tell you how many times I had conversations with previous pastors of mine and to vote Democrat was anathema. This was during my time as a Republican so it didn't really concern me. Abortion rights, gay marriage, and end times (big government?) have overwhelmed the wider evangelical community for years and the Republican party is the party who these individuals see as standing with them.

Well said. From my experience, voting Dem has been met with open hostility by the larger evangelical community. Like, it's unheard of if one consideres themselves a Christian. I've been in churches where the pastor will pray for America to be saved from the Dems, to thunderous applause.

You guys are about as over-the-top with the Perry love as the media. Let's see how this guy handles the pressure of a national election before you start throwing him the keys to the car. .

My MOnday morning meeting at work had people gushing over Perry. Never seen that before. But I've been saying for months now that it would be Perry's nom to lose if he entered the race.

 

[KtSlime]

You have no evidence of him being gay outside of reinforcing gay stereotypes about gay people (he has a lisp, he must be gay!). It's distasteful. The guy is a POS who attacks gays on a personal level. But that doesn't justify attacking him on a personal level with absolutely no facts or evidence.

While it is true everyone is basing their thoughts of him being gay on stereotypes, I don't see what is all so wrong with calling him gay, unless you consider being homosexual bad. I don't think Mercury Fred is using it as a slur. Maybe he is gay, and if enough people show him support and encourage him to come out he might embrace that part of himself and stop trying to 'convert' other homosexuals to heterosexuality.

 

[eznark]

edit: nevermind, misread

Sure did, in addition to love in here.

You guys are about as over-the-top with the Perry love as the media.

While it is true everyone is basing their thoughts of him being gay on stereotypes, I don't see what is all so wrong with calling him gay, unless you consider being homosexual bad.

TO was forced to apologize for calling implying Jeff Garcia was gay by gay advocates what, 5 years ago? Now we're using the same "walks like a duck" stuff to call a guy a flaming homosexual.

Progress!

Yeah, reminds me when Rudy Gulianni was hailed as a favorite during the summer of 2007.. then the rest is history

Giulianni wasn't a social conservative.

 

[gutter_trash]

I don't know, the timeline seems all fucked up now. Aren't there actually primaries in December? Suffice to say that there will be no drama going into the convention, I guess.

Yeah, reminds me when Rudy Gulianni was hailed as a favorite during the summer of 2007.. then the rest is history

 

[ToxicAdam]

My MOnday morning meeting at work had people gushing over Perry. Never seen that before. But I've been saying for months now that it would be Perry's nom to lose if he entered the race.

I know guys like that. They are tea-partiers that see Romney as the enemy and are too sexist to vote for Bachmann (or have real issues with her lack of experience). So Perry has come along as their savior.

 

[Mike M]

Has anyone ever plotted the results of the Ames Straw Poll against who actually gets the nomination? I'm interested to see how they stack up historically after missing the mark so badly in 2007.

Well I guess it didn't "miss the mark" since it's clearly not designed to have predictive properties, but the Paulites are going on like he just won the first primary/caucus and this had significance, and it got me wondering...

 

[GhaleonEB]

Has anyone ever plotted the results of the Ames Straw Poll against who actually gets the nomination? I'm interested to see how they stack up historically after missing the mark so badly in 2007.

Well I guess it didn't "miss the mark" since it's clearly not designed to have predictive properties, but the Paulites are going on like he just won the first primary/caucus and this had significance, and it got me wondering...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ames_Straw_Poll#Detailed_year-by-year_results

Looks like 2/4.

 

[eznark]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ames_Straw_Poll#Detailed_year-by-year_results

1987
1 Pat Robertson 1,293 33.6%

holy shit

 

[Mardak]

Were you around in 2008? The same thing happened then as is happening now. Paul supporters have the enthusiasm but they don't have the numbers

Were you around in 2008 because the numbers are different now.

In 2008, Ron Paul was polling in the single digit percentages across the nation. Just as he did in the Ames Straw Poll:

#1 Mitt Romney 4,516 votes 31.6%
#5 Ron Paul 1,305 votes 9.1%

This year he's significantly better:

#2 Ron Paul 4,671 votes 27.7%

Not only is his polling percentage at the straw poll 3 times higher than it was 4 years ago, his absolute number of votes is higher than Romney's from 4 years ago.

Recent national polls show Ron Paul already in the double digits and increasing.

 

[Mercury Fred]

TO was forced to apologize for calling implying Jeff Garcia was gay by gay advocates what, 5 years ago? Now we're using the same "walks like a duck" stuff to call a guy a flaming homosexual.

Progress!

Hey, remember when Jeff Garcia ran a clinic to try to de-program gay people?

Oh wait...

 

[Byakuya769]

As I'm sure you've already figured out, he's just saying words he's been conditioned to say. He has no idea what, if anything, lies beneath those words in the real world.

His silence on the matter speaks volumes. Though I understand he is responding to various other posters as well.

It's a little scary how quickly people will just say things that they have no way of supporting.

 

[Dude Abides]

As I wrote upthread, there are bounties out for proof.

Oooooh, bounties! I'm sure he's quaking in his boots. Or rather, his high heels, lololol!!

 

[eznark]

Hey, remember when Jeff Garcia ran a clinic to try to de-program gay people?

Oh wait...

That's what makes you suspect he is a flaming homosexual? Not the pictures and the speech?

As I wrote upthread, there are bounties out for proof.

Truthers, birthers and now...gayers??

 

[Mercury Fred]

Oooooh, bounties! I'm sure he's quaking in his boots. Or rather, his high heels, lololol!!

In winter white, no less.

Shopping help comes from another quarter, as well. Before Vice President Dick Cheney’s visit this past summer, Bachmann’s husband, Marcus, hit the stores — “he’s got a good sense of style” — and came home with “a sleek, simple hourglass dress with a yoke collar in winter white.” He even bought a matching coat and shoes. “I just slipped it on.”

That's what makes you suspect he is a flaming homosexual? Not the pictures and the speech?

Let's call it a perfect gay storm.

 

[Mike M]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ames_Straw_Poll#Detailed_year-by-year_results

Looks like 2/4.

Well fuck me, no idea how I missed the results section on the Wikipedia page when it was the first place I looked.

 

[Enron]

Oooooh, bounties! I'm sure he's quaking in his boots. Or rather, his high heels, lololol!!

Or maybe his high-heeled boots!

 

[Dude Abides]

Were you around in 2008 because the numbers are different now.

In 2008, Ron Paul was polling in the single digit percentages across the nation. Just as he did in the Ames Straw Poll:

#1 Mitt Romney 4,516 votes 31.6%
#5 Ron Paul 1,305 votes 9.1%

This year he's significantly better:

#2 Ron Paul 4,671 votes 27.7%

Not only is his polling percentage at the straw poll 3 times higher than it was 4 years ago, his absolute number of votes is higher than Romney's from 4 years ago.

Recent national polls show Ron Paul already in the double digits and increasing.

Not quite.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/ep.../republican_presidential_nomination-1452.html

I wouldn't be too excited about the results of this straw poll.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Not quite.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/ep.../republican_presidential_nomination-1452.html

I wouldn't be too excited about the results of this straw poll.

Also:

Paul’s campaign gave out 4,750 tickets to straw poll voters, his campaign chairman, Jesse Benton, told The Daily Caller.

http://dailycaller.com/2011/08/13/r...owa-straw-poll-tickets-than-michele-bachmann/

They normally cost $30 each. He bussed in supporters, then gave them tickets.

Bachman did the same thing, with 6,000 tickets. (She had quite a few defectors.)

 

[Arrowgigantic]

Nobody is sniggering at Marcus Bachmann because he's swishy gay, they're laughing because he's a living Dave Chappelle skit.

 

[BeautifulMemory]

Nobody is sniggering at Marcus Bachmann because he's swishy gay, they're laughing because he's a living Dave Chappelle skit.

If only chapelle show is still on! Oh the gems we would have

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

I really hope that there won´t be any Joe the plumber/Bob the builder copycats distractions in the upcoming presidential elections. I really thought that Joe has hurt the debate in the election by giving false information/dreams about his future plans or whatever. Ah, whom am i kidding

 

[Vanillalite]

Also:



http://dailycaller.com/2011/08/13/r...owa-straw-poll-tickets-than-michele-bachmann/

They normally cost $30 each. He bussed in supporters, then gave them tickets.

Bachman did the same thing, with 6,000 tickets. (She had quite a few defectors.)

I actually learned about this earlier today. Definitely slightly changes my personal take from what went on with the fact that they bused people in, and gave them free ballots.

 

[Diablos]

Bachmann/JOE THE PLUMBER 2012!

 

[Puddles]

"eznark can't understand economics..."

Fixed.

 

[Mardak]

Not quite. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/ep.../republican_presidential_nomination-1452.html

Sure, you can claim I might be picking and choosing which poll results to report, but I would find it hard for anyone to say the 3% result is not an outlier.

If you look at the previous month where Ron Paul was getting consistent 5-7% results that trend upwards to a consistent 8-9% and to this month of a few showing 10%, 12%, and even 14%.

 

[Mardak]

I actually learned about this earlier today. Definitely slightly changes my personal take from what went on with the fact that they bused people in, and gave them free ballots.

Sure, it might be more difficult to argue that the Ames Straw Poll is an indication of where Iowans are leaning, but given what you point out, the results can be shown to indicate campaigns' organizational ability.

I admit I do not fully understand Ron Paul and his beliefs. But I do understand when a guy gets shafted, and Ron Paul just got shafted.

And any fair assessment of Ames, therefore, would have said the winds of the Republican Party are blowing toward both Bachmann and Paul.

Nonsense, some would say. Straw polls are just organized bribery, with the campaigns buying the tickets and distributing them to supporters. (And, in fact, this is what I wrote before Ames.)

What they really show, many argue, is not where the philosophical heart of the party is, but the organizational abilities of the candidates.

Fine, I’ll buy that. But why didn’t Paul get the same credit for his organizational abilities as Bachmann did for hers?

Ron Paul remains media poison
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0811/61412.html

 

[PhoenixDark]

If someone runs an "ex-gay" clinic, then they no longer deserve any fair treatment or any benefit of the doubt. Many who go through these torture chambers end up killing themselves afterward. Bachmann is harmful, dangerous and evil. Bounties have been posted for proof of his homosexuality and I'm sure something will turn up sooner or later. In the meantime, I'm going to continue with the assumption that this scum is a closet case.

?

Like what, his lisp and happy..persona? I'm serious. I've seen gay people here and on twitter (bloggers from HuffPo mainly) outright saying Bachman is gay with no evidence beyond what he looks and sounds like.

I realize he tortures gay people and that no doubt makes him a pos, not only to me but moreso to you. I know someone who was forced to attend one of these gay therapy frauds, at Oral Roberts. But that doesn't justify spreading rumors or attempting to attack him personally with no evidence.

If someone steps forward with a story, I'll believe you. Until then I see no point in these attacks.

 

[eznark]

Fixed.

Excellent contribution as always.

 

[Vanillalite]

Sure, it might be more difficult to argue that the Ames Straw Poll is an indication of where Iowans are leaning, but given what you point out, the results can be shown to indicate campaigns' organizational ability.

I don't disagree with the organization thing. Though I think it's hard to estimate how well an organization is nationwide based on this.

 

[Joel Was Right]

M. Bachmann: “I never called homosexual community barbarians, a myth. I do not use reparative therapy” http://t.co/b0KOaXy

 

[PhoenixDark]

Everytime Mardak posts I think it's Mandark

 

[Dude Abides]

Sure, you can claim I might be picking and choosing which poll results to report, but I would find it hard for anyone to say the 3% result is not an outlier.

If you look at the previous month where Ron Paul was getting consistent 5-7% results that trend upwards to a consistent 8-9% and to this month of a few showing 10%, 12%, and even 14%.

And the 14% could be an outlier just as much as the 3% could. There's been an uptick for Paul but it's not a groundswell.

Sure, it might be more difficult to argue that the Ames Straw Poll is an indication of where Iowans are leaning, but given what you point out, the results can be shown to indicate campaigns' organizational ability.

The ability of the Paul campaign to organize and mobilize an extremely small group of people has never been in question. It's upscaling that's the problem.

 

[Mercury Fred]

?

Like what, his lisp and happy..persona?

No, obviously, someone who's slept with him.

I'm serious. I've seen gay people here and on twitter (bloggers from HuffPo mainly) outright saying Bachman is gay with no evidence beyond what he looks and sounds like.

I realize he tortures gay people and that no doubt makes him a pos, not only to me but moreso to you. I know someone who was forced to attend one of these gay therapy frauds, at Oral Roberts. But that doesn't justify spreading rumors or attempting to attack him personally with no evidence.

If someone steps forward with a story, I'll believe you. Until then I see no point in these attacks.

I'm sorry but the dude is gay.

-Runs an "ex-gay" clinic
-Very gay mannerisms and voice
-Picks out his "wife"'s clothes
-Is a Republican who does all of these things

He's gay. Gay gay gay gay gay gay gay.

 

[Vanillalite]

The ability of the Paul campaign to organize and mobilize an extremely small group of people has never been in question. It's upscaling that's the problem.

Pretty much my thoughts as well, but for all of the candidates. Mobilizing less than 10k (most less than 5k) worth of people isn't the big deal. It's doing that for 10s or 100s of thousands to actually win the nod across the country that matters.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Via twitter...there really is a bubble around DC. It's the only place in the country where people have a net positive view of the economy.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/149000/Washington-Extends-Lead-Economic-Confidence.aspx

 

[Mike M]

Sure, it might be more difficult to argue that the Ames Straw Poll is an indication of where Iowans are leaning, but given what you point out, the results can be shown to indicate campaigns' organizational ability.


Ron Paul remains media poison
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0811/61412.html

How can you simultaneously believe Ron Paul will win the nomination while griping about how the media is ignoring him?

Candidates ignored by the media do not go on to win elections.

 

[Oblivion]

 

[Joel Was Right]

I just came across the Bible 'wife submission' question. The most puzzling thing about this was the audience reaction. Am I right to presume there would be many Christians in that audience?

 

[PhoenixDark]

No, obviously, someone who's slept with him. .

Link? And is it reputable?

 

[teruterubozu]

I just came across the Bible 'wife submission' question. The most puzzling thing about this was the audience reaction. Am I right to presume there would be many Christians in that audience?

They think it's a Katie Couric-type "gotcha" question. Not really so puzzling.

 

[Invisible_Insane]

Link? And is it reputable?

No, I think it's more of a Larry Flint-like "we'll pay if you slept with this guy" kind of deal.

 

[Joel Was Right]

They think it's a Katie Couric-type "gotcha" question. Not really so puzzling.

I thought it was a perfectly legitimate question.

 

[Mercury Fred]

No, I think it's more of a Larry Flint-like "we'll pay if you slept with this guy" kind of deal.

Exactly.

 

[Particle Physicist]

They think it's a Katie Couric-type "gotcha" question. Not really so puzzling.

Katie Couric doesn't ask gotcha question. :x

 

[Mardak]

How can you simultaneously believe Ron Paul will win the nomination while griping about how the media is ignoring him?

Candidates ignored by the media do not go on to win elections.

If Ron Paul were to win the nomination, he will be in the media. People won't be so naive to think "Oh Obama is the only one running for president! There's nobody running for the Republican party because there's no media about the competitor!"

"Obama must be debating nobody! They only show video of when Obama talks!"

The media will have to cover Ron Paul whether they like it or not.

 

[teruterubozu]

Katie Couric doesn't ask gotcha question. :x

I'm saying from their perspective (I knew that was coming)

 

[Invisible_Insane]

If Ron Paul were to win the nomination, he will be in the media. People won't be so naive to think "Oh Obama is the only one running for president! There's nobody running for the Republican party because there's no media about the competitor!"

"Obama must be debating nobody! They only show video of when Obama talks!"

The media will have to cover Ron Paul whether they like it or not.

Can you bottle your tears for me when the primaries are over? I suspect they'd be great in cocktails.

 

[besada]

TO was forced to apologize for calling implying Jeff Garcia was gay by gay advocates what, 5 years ago? Now we're using the same "walks like a duck" stuff to call a guy a flaming homosexual.

Progress!

I don't think constant reiteration of the topic is useful, but he's new to the field, and if you look at the backstory and his personality, it's hard to not at least wonder. I don't know whether he's gay or not, but after reading the stuff about anti-gay clinics and hearing him speak, I'll admit that it became a question in my mind. If true, I feel sorrier for him than anything else. If true, he's on a path to being outed, and beyond that, it's a terrible thing for anyone to have to deny who they are out of fear.

After I made my first comment about it, the first time I knew about him, I've tried to leave it alone, because I don't think it's an appropriate cudgel with which to attack Bachmann, particularly since there are so many better ones that come directly from her.