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[tokkun]

We should pay taxes and have programs that help the poor because it's the right thing to do as a society. Period.

"We should do it because it's the right thing to do."

That's just a tautology.

 

[besada]

Spoiler

I'm Jewish

Oh, well, then you're exempt from Matthew. But you're obligated by tzedakah. In fact, it's not really even charity, because you're obligated by your faith to seek justice for the poor, although you are allowed to ignore those without a real need.

 

[empty vessel]

Yeah, and that thing is filled with all the crazy and stupid that RustyNails pointed out. I haven't seen you actually refute anything.

Why would I refute anything it said? I didn't cite to it, RustyNails did.

Look if you are going to read and cite the blogs of paranoid and conspiracy obsessed lunatics, then you have to expect people to (and rightly so) call you out for it.

You and Rusty are the only two people "calling" anything out. Rusty, who I like, has a vested intellectual interest in defending the Libyan action. You are you, a hard right-winger who I wouldn't expect to have any sympathy with an organized black political movement. You saying that Glen Ford is a "paranoid and conspiracy obsessed lunatic" is hardly persuasive. RustyNails has at least made a weak attempt at a substantive argument (focusing almost all of his effort on McKinney however and almost none on Ford). You have offered nothing at all, as usual.

You can huff and puff all you want, but it doesn't change the fact you cited some awful garbage, people called you on it, and you didn't actually try and make a defense of it, instead trying to switch topics.

I don't know what you're talking about. I support Ford, as do many people (including, e.g., Tim Wise, who wrote for The Black Commentator (a Ford publication) here, here, and here, among many others). I cited his article as an example of why people, including myself, do not necessarily believe that Libya is something to be proud of or blindly cheered on. Whether you agree with it or not is wholly irrelevant. Writing it off as coming from a "nut" is irrational if reasons not based on misrepresentations cannot so much as be articulated. Again, nobody has even made an effort to do so.

Of course, you think that Tim Wise or Bill Quigley are also "nuts." You incessantly deride "the left," by which you mean anybody to the left of Joe Lieberman. You are not a credible authority on nuttiness such that I can take your word for it. You will have to do better than your say so.

 

[sc0la]

"We should do it because it's the right thing to do."

That's just a tautology.

The first rule of Tautology Club is the first rule of Tautology Club.
http://xkcd.com/703/

 

[empty vessel]

He has defended pretty much every dictator. Chavez, Gaddafi, Castro. He's also said living in North Korea is better than living in palestine. Pretty much the stock West=evil meme stuff

Rejecting US intervention in non-aligned countries is hardly defending dictators. Of course, if we were to use empirical evidence to draw conclusions and not rely on faith-based authority, we would have to conclude that Chavez is not, in fact, a dictator but a democratically elected president. Never let facts get in the way of a good brainwashing, though.

If you have arguments to make, make them. If you just want to simplify nuanced opinions to this tripe, kindly go away.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

You and Rusty are the only two people "calling" anything out. Rusty, who I like, has a vested intellectual interest in defending the Libyan action. You are you, a hard right-winger who I wouldn't expect to have any sympathy with an organized black political movement.

So I'm hardcore right winger. I swear to god you say the funniest shit here sometimes. No sympathy with the organized black political movement, oh no I'm a racist then. LOL

You are not a credible authority on nuttiness such that I can take your word for it. You will have to do better than your say so.

In regard to authoritative evidence of nuttiness, defer to you, the expert on that, as often demonstrated by your posts.

If you have arguments to make, make them. If you just want to simplify nuanced opinions to this tripe, kindly go away.

Looks like someone is getting a little testy here.

 

[Byakuya769]

Looks like someone is getting a little testy here.

Dude, you just spent a post on "I know you are, but what am I?"

 

[empty vessel]

So I'm hardcore right winger. I swear to god you say the funniest shit here sometimes. No sympathy with the organized black political movement, oh no I'm a racist then. LOL

Discussion would be enhanced if you responded to what I said and not what you wished I had said.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Dude, you just spent a post on "I know you are, but what am I?"

Yeah, but I don't feel testy.

 

[Veezy]

So I'm hardcore right winger. I swear to god you say the funniest shit here sometimes. No sympathy with the organized black political movement, oh no I'm a racist then. LOL



In regard to authoritative evidence of nuttiness, defer to you, the expert on that, as often demonstrated by your posts.



Looks like someone is getting a little testy here.

I'm sure EV can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe what he's saying is that, while you may disagree with the author of the article, there are perfectly valid explanations of EV's opinion in said article. Saying dude's a nutcase doesn't make his point, any less valid, so long as it's reasonably constructed and done with legit reasoning.

Libya being a free, truly democratic nation, is a good thing. Libya being run by a Western backed leader only to become another Iran, is not.

Of course, I could always be wrong.

 

[Bulbo Urethral Baggins]

Rejecting US intervention in non-aligned countries is hardly defending dictators. Of course, if we were to use empirical evidence to draw conclusions and not rely on faith-based authority, we would have to conclude that Chavez is not, in fact, a dictator but a democratically elected president. Never let facts get in the way of a good brainwashing, though.

If you have arguments to make, make them. If you just want to simplify nuanced opinions to this tripe, kindly go away.

I see...Time to bust out the good you must be "brainwashed" defense.
It's always so convincing.

 

[lo escondido]

I'm sure EV can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe what he's saying is that, while you may disagree with the author of the article, there are perfectly valid explanations of EV's opinion in said article. Saying dude's a nutcase doesn't make his point, any less valid, so long as it's reasonably constructed and done with legit reasoning.

Libya being a free, truly democratic nation, is a good thing. Libya being run by a Western backed leader only to become another Iran, is not.

Of course, I could always be wrong.

you are wrong

 

[empty vessel]

I'm sure EV can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe what he's saying is that, while you may disagree with the author of the article, there are perfectly valid explanations of EV's opinion in said article. Saying dude's a nutcase doesn't make his point, any less valid, so long as it's reasonably constructed and done with legit reasoning.

Libya being a free, truly democratic nation, is a good thing. Libya being run by a Western backed leader only to become another Iran, is not.

Of course, I could always be wrong.

No correction necessary.

I see...Time to bust out the good you must be "brainwashed" defense.
It's always so convincing.

If one believes that Chavez is a dictator, one is brainwashed. There are no empirical facts consistent with the proposition. That he might become a dictator in the future is, of course, entirely unknown (although I see no good reason to fear that).

 

[lo escondido]

I see...Time to bust out the good you must be "brainwashed" defense.
It's always so convincing.

That's what his entire argument is based around. I'm a brainwashed fool and he is some enlightened person who understand the reality of everything.

 

[Chichikov]

If one believes that Chavez is a dictator, one is brainwashed. There are no empirical facts consistent with the proposition. That he might become a dictator in the future is, of course, entirely unknown (although I see no good reason to fear that).

Not everyone who is wrong is brainwashed.
I know, it's mostly semantics, but using the right semantics can really help moving the conversation forward.

 

[empty vessel]

Not everyone who is wrong is brainwashed.
I know, it's mostly semantics, but using the right semantics can really help moving the conversation forward.

You are probably right. But I'm slightly robotic in that way.

 

[eznark]

It's been awhile since you threw out the "if you disagree with me your are brainwashed" card. Out of material this evening I guess?

 

[empty vessel]

It's been awhile since you threw out the "if you disagree with me your are brainwashed" card. Out of material this evening I guess?

No, it's just a factual assertion. As Chichikov pointed out, it's probably not the best approach, but that doesn't make it inaccurate. There are facts in the world that can be gleaned through observation. It's the foundational assumption of the practice of science. I faithfully apply it.

 

[platypotamus]

Yeah, but I don't feel testy.

Self exams are a great way to detect testicular cancer early.

 

[Puddles]

of course.. and it clearly says after i tithe 10% to give to the poor and tons of hours a year to to the poor i should then give more money to a government to redistribute wealth to more poor who may or may not actually need it. If I ever argue against this it's a clear sign that i hate poor people.

Are you even in the top tax bracket?

 

[Veezy]

you are wrong

I'm wrong that it's bad if Libya becomes another Iran. Huh.

 

[Particle Physicist]

of course.. and it clearly says after i tithe 10% to give to the poor and tons of hours a year to to the poor i should then give more money to a government to redistribute wealth to more poor who may or may not actually need it. If I ever argue against this it's a clear sign that i hate poor people.

Actually, it's the other way around. In the Jewish religion, you are supposed to give 10 percent of your net income (ie after taxes) to the poor. Taxes don't count as part of your obligations. And even Israel has many social services for those on need, including public healthcare.


Not saying you hate poor people though

 

[ToxicAdam]

Some of the country’s best-known multi­national corporations closely guard a number they don’t want anyone to know: the breakdown between their jobs here and abroad.

So secretive are these companies that they hand the figure over to government statisticians on the condition that officials will release only an aggregate number. The latest data show that multinationals cut 2.9 million jobs in the United States and added 2.4 million overseas between 2000 and 2009.

Some of the same companies that do not report their jobs breakdown, including Apple and Pfizer, are pushing lawmakers to cut their tax bills in the name of job creation in the United States.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...a/2011/08/12/gIQAZwhqUJ_story.html?hpid=z2</a

 

[Oblivion]

http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/bben-stein-destroys-bill-oreillys-idea-

Dunno what's up with Ben Stein, but there he is destroying Bill O'reilly on taxes.

 

[platypotamus]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...a/2011/08/12/gIQAZwhqUJ_story.html?hpid=z2</a

Call me crazy, but I'm all for a tax on corporations for each non-American job that is designed to even up the costs of foreign labor with American labor.

 

[Piecake]

Call me crazy, but I'm all for a tax on corporations for each non-American job that is designed to even up the costs of foreign labor with American labor.

I approve of this bill

 

[Chichikov]

http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/bben-stein-destroys-bill-oreillys-idea-

Dunno what's up with Ben Stein, but there he is destroying Bill O'reilly on taxes.

Since when is Ben Stein an economist?

Also, O'Reilly is really making a fool of himself, I started to laugh out loud when I understood the crux of his argument.

 

[Oblivion]

Also, O'Reilly is really making a fool of himself, I started to laugh out loud when I understood the crux of his argument.

I too am shocked that one who doesn't know what gravity is would be making a fool out of himself.

 

[Piecake]

Since when is Ben Stein an economist?

Also, O'Reilly is really making a fool of himself, I started to laugh out loud when I understood the crux of his argument.

that was the first clip of fox news that ive watched in a long while and I immediately regretted clicking on that link

 

[TacticalFox88]

I too am shocked that one who doesn't know what gravity is would be making a fool out of himself.

Science...how does it work!?

 

[ToxicAdam]

Paul Krugman - 7:15 PM (edited) - Public

People on twitter might be joking, but in all seriousness, we would see a bigger boost in spending and hence economic growth if the earthquake had done more damage.

...

 

[Black Republican]

Even in worse case scenarios, Obama will win due to the hispanic vote (blacks turning out also helps of course)

pfft, at this point they have no reason to

 

[Oblivion]

...

well then

 

[Cyan]

...

See, I always told you guys he was an asshole.

 

[XMonkey]

...

He's not helping his case with these kind of asinine comments related to infrastructure spending...

 

[PhoenixDark]

...

"It was the kids, they called me Mr. Glass-Steagall

 

[Clevinger]

So Krugman finally snapped.

 

[ToxicAdam]

It's just an offhand remark made on the internet. It's not really fair to totally dismiss someone if they say something a bit off once in awhile.


Even Diablos.

 

[Piecake]

So Krugman finally snapped.

I thought he snapped a while ago when he called for that economic fixing alien invasion

 

[Evlar]

Keynesian pushes Keynesian economics: people GASP!

One week later. Same Keynesian pushes Keynesian economics some more: people FAINT!

 

[Black Republican]

So Krugman finally snapped.

the quiet ones always do

 

[Oblivion]

Keynesian pushes Keynesian economics: people GASP!

One week later. Same Keynesian pushes Keynesian economics some more: people FAINT!

We all get what he was getting at, we're just groaning at his horrendously timed poor choice of words.

 

[Suikoguy]

It's just an offhand remark made on the internet. It's not really fair to totally dismiss someone if they say something a bit off once in awhile.

Yeah, you got a point.

Even Diablos.

Wait a second...

 

[HylianTom]

Wow, Obama doesn't get 50+ against a guy who has been running for what, 10 days?

Holy shit, maybe he is beatable.

Of course he is.

I stand by my prediction: a series of one-termers as the country's childlike voters throw tantrums when our fundamental problems go unsolved/unaddressed.

There was an old gem reposted on TheOilDrum recently..

Stalin is dying, and summons Comrade Khruschev to his bedside. Wheezing his last few words with difficulty, Stalin tells Khruschev, "Comrade, the reins of the country are now in your hands. But before I go, I want to give you some advice."

"Yes, yes, Great Leader, what is it?" says Khruschev.

Reaching under his pillow, Stalin produces two envelopes marked 1 and 2. "Take these letters," he tells Khruschev. "Keep them safely--don't open them. Only if the country is in turmoil and things start going badly, open the first one. That'll give you some advice on what to do. And, even after that, if things start going REALLY badly, open the second one." And with a gasp Stalin breathed his last.

Well, Khruschev succeeded him, and sure enough, within a few years things started going badly--unemployment increased, crops failed, people became restless. Nikita decided it was time to open the first letter. All it said was: "Blame everything on me!" So Khruschev launched a massive deStalinization campaign, and blamed Josef for all the excesses and purges and ills of the present system, and bought himself some time that way.

But things continued on the downslide--Kennedy successfully rebuffed Soviet missiles in Cuba, unemployment increased even more, crops failed even more, the Politburo was unhappy with Khruschev's leadership and upstarts like Brezhnev and Gromyko were threatening his credibility. So finally, after much deliberation, Nikita opened the second letter.

All it said was: "Write two letters."

 

[Jackson50]

Absolutely. But Hillary was instrumental in achieving international consensus, and making sure Russia, China and India do not veto the resolution. She flew to and from US, EU and Middle-east in a pretty non-stop fashion for days prior to the acceptance of the resolution.

She has been an effective Secretary of State. I may have disagreed with her on Libya, but I largely applaud her performance. She has staunchly lobbied for a more prominent role for Foggy Bottom. Moreover, she has implemented some sorely overdue institutional reforms. And while she may not be a strategic architect, that is hardly a criticism. That role has gradually shifted to the innumerable aides in the Executive Office.

 

[RustyNails]

I'm wrong that it's bad if Libya becomes another Iran. Huh.

You are wrong in your assertion that 2011 Libya will result in 1953 Iran. Mossadegh was overthrown in a CIA orchestrated coup d-etat after he tried nationalizing Iranian oil companies. UK did not like this, so it requested US' help to devise a brilliant plan which involved overthrowing a democratically elected leader. Col. Gaddafi came to power in a coup d'etat as well, when the King of Libya was abroad. Libyan case is pure grassroots case of people rising up against an oppressive ruler who had a fearsome reputation of clamping down dissent both locally as well as internationally. For example, he has sent hitmen to assassinate exiled dissidents abroad, particularly in Italy. NATO only got involved when OIC, Arab League and Libyan UN representatives, and Libyans in Benghazi pleaded for their help. Look at the countries in the world (both Arab and non Arab) who have recognized NTC as the legitimate government of Libya. See the pictures in previous pages where people are cheering the western leaders. Compare this involvement with the clandestine operation to overthrow Mossadegh in Iran, which hardly anyone outside MI6 and CIA knew about.

If anything, US should've sided with Gaddafi if we only cared only about oil exports. It's not like Gaddafi was nationalizing his oil companies or not selling us oil. US foreign policy's central tenet is to maintain what's working in it's favor by all means, instead of gambling for something that may or may not work in it's favor in the future. It intends to maintain status quo over change. America's worst nightmare is democracy in KSA.

 

[jamesinclair]

Attention Passengers: The GOP train to 1776 is now boarding. Please make your way to gate 16 for the 7:12pm express to 1776.

Passengers please note that today's service is a dirt road, and passengers are encouraged to bring their own shoes.

Once again, the GOP dirt road express is now boarding.


----

Some local elected officials are criticizing Gov. Terry Branstad's decision not to renew Iowa's membership to a federal passenger rail advocacy group for next year despite the commitment by local entities to pay the membership fee.

The Legislature voted to cut funding for the membership for the current fiscal year to the Midwest Interstate Passenger Rail Coalition.

The organization provides planning services and federal lobbying for passenger rail to Midwestern states, and it includes Illinois, Wisconsin, Minnesota and Missouri, among other Midwestern states

In an effort to maintain Iowa's involvement, the city of Iowa City, Iowa City Area Chamber of Commerce, Metropolitan Planning Organization of Johnson County, Quad Cities Chamber and Greater Des Moines Partnership all agreed to provide funding to cover the $15,000 membership fee.

However, when they presented the funding to the governor, he declined to renew the membership, John Yapp, executive director of the MPOJC, formerly known as the Johnson County Council of Governments, told board members Wednesday night.

...

Last year, federal authorities allocated $230 million in funding for the plan. However, it requires a $20 million match from the state. While the Legislature did not fund the match during its most recent session, it did pass language that leaves the debate open for next year. Gov. Branstad has said he will withhold his position on the issue until the the House and Senate vote on it.

http://www.press-citizen.com/articl...90319/Branstad-turns-down-cities-rail-funding



Not even the freaking chamber of congress, which is the GOP bread and butter, can convince the GOP that investment in infrastructure = good.


This would have cost taxpayers a grand total of $0.

I thought the GOP loved private-public partnerships?

 

[TacticalFox88]

Attention Passengers: The GOP train to 1776 is now boarding. Please make your way to gate 16 for the 7:12pm express to 1776.

Passengers please note that today's service is a dirt road, and passengers are encouraged to bring their own shoes.

Once again, the GOP dirt road express is now boarding.


----


http://www.press-citizen.com/articl...90319/Branstad-turns-down-cities-rail-funding



Not even the freaking chamber of congress, which is the GOP bread and butter, can convince the GOP that investment in infrastructure = good.


This would have cost taxpayers a grand total of $0.

I thought the GOP loved private-public partnerships?

SMH GOP. You're a bunch of clowns

 

[jamesinclair]

Gov. Sam Brownback has asked the U.S. Department of Agriculture to declare drought disasters for 20 more Kansas counties.

The declaration would make farmers and ranchers eligible for emergency federal loans and other help.

Also pending is Brownback's request for disaster declarations for 10 counties hit by hail, high winds, floods and heavy rain.

http://www.therepublic.com/view/story/3a0602b15eaf49b8a8a54ef4912d40c0/KS--Kansas-Drought-Disaster/


Sam Brownback, former GOP presidential candidate is ready to hit up the federal ATM. Them farmers need cash, and they need it fast.


But senator, you know you cant withdraw from the ATM if you didnt deposit beforehand right?

Taxation

In December 2005, Brownback advocated using Washington, DC as a "laboratory" for a flat tax.[57][58] He was rated 100 percent by the US COC, indicating a "pro-business" voting record. He voted Yes on a Balanced-budget constitutional amendment, has expressed support for a low tax and spend approach, opposes the Estate Tax, and was rated 100 percent by the Cato Institute, indicating a pro-free trade voting record. He supports two-year limit on welfare benefits.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Brownback#Taxation


The business community should get together and aid the farmers. Thats what Cato would want right?

Low taxes = low federal aid, amirite?

Why, asking Obama for fed bucks would be, dare I say it, hypocritical.

 

[KtSlime]

http://www.therepublic.com/view/story/3a0602b15eaf49b8a8a54ef4912d40c0/KS--Kansas-Drought-Disaster/


Sam Brownback, former GOP presidential candidate is ready to hit up the federal ATM. Them farmers need cash, and they need it fast.


But senator, you know you cant withdraw from the ATM if you didnt deposit beforehand right?




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Brownback#Taxation


The business community should get together and aid the farmers. Thats what Cato would want right?

Low taxes = low federal aid, amirite?

Why, asking Obama for fed bucks would be, dare I say it, hypocritical.

I know where we can cut some government spending! Are Senators, and Reps willing to work pro bono*? Last I checked they get some of their money from taxes. They need to stop leaching off the dole, fucking parasites - bunch of welfare kings.

*This is a joke, knowing those slime balls they will just go and eat out of big businesses hands even more than they do now.