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[FLEABttn]

TA and eznark are liberals??

I think only in PoliGAF would TA not be considered liberal.

 

[ToxicAdam]

I'm a registered Republican. But, I don't vote down party lines.

 

[Klocker]

At least Krugman is completely self aware!

The lack of which is the main problem with all of his attackers and the crazy right in general. That and a complete lack of a sense of humor.

 

[TacticalFox88]

I basically assumed everyone in this thread was a liberal, or at least the majority of the frequent posters.

If everyone on this thread was a Liberal, then it'd get boring. Seriously.

 

[KtSlime]

Gold crash?




You know it's going to happen .. just a matter of when.

I can't believe people still care so much about gold. I can't figure out why people buy and sell it, sure it is rare, but the utilitarian value of it is virtually nil. If there was a complete collapse of the economy and society, do people really think they will be able to trade a useless metal for necessities?

 

[TacticalFox88]

I can't believe people still care so much about gold. I can't figure out why people buy and sell it, sure it is rare, but the utilitarian value of it is virtually nil. If there was a complete collapse of the economy and society, do people really think they will be able to trade a useless metal for necessities?

Well considering we trade essentially paper for necessities. Money has no real value. We just "say" it's valuable.

 

[eznark]

Pataki looking to enter the fray now. Someone who has actually worked and put money into repealing ObamaCare?

Interesting....

 

[Averon]

I basically assumed everyone in this thread was a liberal, or at least the majority of the frequent posters.

PoliGAF is majority liberal, but TA, eznark, and Gabon makes up for it with their regular contributions. You'd be amazed at a Bigsciliy "debate".

 

[KtSlime]

Well considering we trade essentially paper for necessities. Money has no real value. We just "say" it's valuable.

Yeah, I get that, and so people are buying gold as a backup for a the decline of government backed paper. But gold is just the same, we simply 'say' it's valuable.

 

[eznark]

Yeah, I get that, and so people are buying gold as a backup for a the decline of government backed paper. But gold is just the same, we simply 'say' it's valuable.

So your point is.....

 

[Kifimbo]

Yeah, I get that, and so people are buying gold as a backup for a the decline of government backed paper. But gold is just the same, we simply 'say' it's valuable.

It ain't the same. You can't create gold out of thin air. It's valuable because it's a rare metal and there is a demand for it, not because we 'say' it's valuable.

 

[ToxicAdam]

Not to mention that gold has numerous 'real world' applications in the manufacturing world.

 

[Evlar]

It ain't the same. You can't create gold out of thin air. It's valuable because it's a rare metal and there is a demand for it, not because we 'say' it's valuable.

Economic 'demand' encapsulates the idea that one or more people have decided a good or service is desirable. That is, the desire for gold is just as much a social phenomenon as the desire for green paper.

 

[besada]

And there's liberal and liberal. It's a continuum, like anything else. Referring to, say mckmas and ev as "liberal" misses a lot of ground in between them.

 

[Incognito]

http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/...y/2011/08/23/id/408411?s=al&promo_code=CE72-1

A new poll shows Texas Gov. Rick Perry with a double-digit lead nationally over the current 2012 frontrunner, former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney.

The poll, which will be released Wednesday by Public Policy Polling (PPP), is not being detailed in advance, the New York Post reported. But PPP's Director Tom Jensen confirmed Perry's double-digit advantage to the Post.

It will be the second poll of Republican primary voters by the Democratically-aligned polling company to show Perry with a lead nationally since the three-term Texas governor entered the contest.

A Rasmussen Reports national poll out Aug. 16 showed Perry leading Romney by 11 points, 29 percent to 18 percent.

....

PPP told the Post that Wednesday's release will show that in a head-to-head matchup, Perry trails President Barack Obama 49 percent to 43 percent. Obama benefited from independent voters who favored him by 56 percent to 32 percent.

 

[besada]

Shocked, shocked I am.

 

[mckmas8808]

Perry stumbled out the gate hard. The establishment had been begging him to join the race, now they're looking for another savior. Initially I thought he would challenge Obama well given his jobs record in Texas...but now...dude just looks insane.

I maintain that if Obama faces Romney, he loses. He has nothing to run on, and the only motivation his supporters have is denying the WH from someone worse than him. Meanwhile I don't think the GOP will have motivation problems with Romney; their goal is kicking Obama out of office.

Now this isn't true. You're acting as if he literally got nothing done in his first 3 years.

 

[ToxicAdam]

I put zero credence in any of these partisan polls.

 

[Clevinger]

PPP told the Post that Wednesday's release will show that in a head-to-head matchup, Perry trails President Barack Obama 49 percent to 43 percent. Obama benefited from independent voters who favored him by 56 percent to 32 percent.

That's kind of pathetic, given how much independents don't like Obama right now.

 

[empty vessel]

It ain't the same. You can't create gold out of thin air. It's valuable because it's a rare metal and there is a demand for it, not because we 'say' it's valuable.

It isn't the same but it is very nearly the same. It's original value was derived from its rarity as a precious metal (i.e., more labor required to extract it). That value is what made it a good currency (and its role as currency heightened the demand for it). Now that we use fiat currency, its value as currency is nil, although there is still some demand as reserve currency (which is why it rises and falls inversely with trust in social institutions). But that aspect of gold's demand is every bit as artificial and socially created as fiat currency. It isn't a property of gold itself. (Fiat currency also has a demand other than currency, but it's just the much less valuable (i.e., less labor to produce) paper out of which it is made.)

Not to mention that gold has numerous 'real world' applications in the manufacturing world.

Paper has real world applications as well. It's just cheaper to create than gold is to find.

 

[mckmas8808]

http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/...y/2011/08/23/id/408411?s=al&promo_code=CE72-1

Early polls are early......but Obama beating Perry by six points even at 39% polling wouldn't make me feel good as a republican.

Just saying.

 

[RustyNails]

http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/...y/2011/08/23/id/408411?s=al&promo_code=CE72-1

Best news of the day

 

[Incognito]

I put zero credence in any of these partisan polls.

democratic firm or not, ppp has been on a stellar run.

 

[TacticalFox88]

http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/...y/2011/08/23/id/408411?s=al&promo_code=CE72-1

Eh, I won't start taking any polling seriously until the Primaries are over.

 

[ToxicAdam]

It isn't the same but it is very nearly the same

Paper is a manufactured product. Gold is not. Gold has value because it is gold. The inherent properties it possesses is what gives the value.

Paper has real world applications as well. It's just cheaper to create than gold is to find.

This hasn't always been true. It's only through mass production and the efficiencies of manufacturing the product that the disparity of price exists.


Any other apples and oranges comparisons we want to engage in today?

 

[Byakuya769]

And there's liberal and liberal. It's a continuum, like anything else. Referring to, say mckmas and ev as "liberal" misses a lot of ground in between them.

Time to break up into separate caucuses.

 

[ToxicAdam]

democratic firm or not, ppp has been on a stellar run.

PPP releases mostly state-level polls that cannot really be invalidated or refuted by conventional means. Their only real competition is Quinnipiac in that arena.

It's quite easy to use polls to create a narrative this far out from an election and slowly draw it back into reality as election day comes to pass.

I really only trust Gallup and Quinnipiac as proper barometers. PPP and Rasmussen are just for the partisan blogs to have fun with.

 

[Krauser Kat]

My financial future depends on wether or not the healthcare pools come up in 2014. I will assassinate anyone other than bams for president, because being broke just because i want to have a kid but work in a field where i have to buy my own health insurance. A pool would really help to bring down our cost. We are looking at 280 a month with a 10,000 dectuctible for just an hsa plan.

 

[mckmas8808]

Romney Turns Down DeMint Labor Day Forum
Eric Kleefeld | August 24, 2011, 12:02PM

Mitt Romney will not be attending a Labor Day candidate forum in South Carolina -- hosted by the very conservative Sen. Jim DeMint (R-SC), who had previously endorsed Romney back in the 2008 cycle.

As CNN reports, Romney spokesman Ryan Williams has cited scheduling conflicts, saying the candidate will be spending the day in New Hampshire.

Five candidates thus far have accepted invitations: Rick Perry, Michele Bachmann, Ron Paul, Herman Cain and Newt Gingrich. Invitations were also extended to Sarah Palin and Rudy Giuliani, though they are not actually in the race. Romney is thus the only active candidate to turn down the event.

Romney has become the target of many conservative attacks, mainly over his Massachusetts health care reform -- which later became the basic blueprint for President Obama's national health care reform. DeMint, of course, has reversed his own position on his past praise for Massachusetts health care reform, back when he endorsed Romney in the 2008 cycle
​

##################

I actually think long term this is a good thing for Romney to do.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Gallup confirms PPP's findings actually

Gallup poll of Republican primary field: Perry 29, Romney 17, Paul 13, Bachmann 10

https://twitter.com/daveweigel/status/106427997623558144

 

[Invisible_Insane]

Time to break up into separate caucuses.

You get hacked by somedude or something?

 

[empty vessel]

Paper is a manufactured product. Gold is not. Gold has value because it is gold. The inherent properties it possesses is what gives it it's value.

That isn't true. Nothing has value because it is X. It has value because it takes labor to produce X.

This hasn't always been true. It's only through mass production and the efficiencies of manufacturing the product that the disparity of price exists.

I agree. You just proved my point.

Any other apples and oranges comparisons we want to engage in today?

I don't get it.

And there's liberal and liberal. It's a continuum, like anything else. Referring to, say mckmas and ev as "liberal" misses a lot of ground in between them.

I'll say. There are several people who vote Democratic and that would be considered "liberal" by many that I consider fundamentally conservative, some even to the right of TA.

 

[eznark]

Obama getting less than 50% against a guy who hasn't been running for even a month is not something to crow about.

If you care about August polls in the year before an election, of course.

 

[ToxicAdam]

Gallup confirms PPP's findings actually


https://twitter.com/daveweigel/status/106427997623558144

That's pretty incredible considering Perry's lack of name recognition.

 

[Incognito]

PPP releases mostly state-level polls that cannot really be invalidated or refuted by conventional means. Their only real competition is Quinnipiac in that arena.

It's quite easy to use polls to create a narrative this far out from an election and slowly draw it back into reality as election day comes to pass.

I really only trust Gallup and Quinnipiac as proper barometers. PPP and Rasmussen are just for the partisan blogs to have fun with.

uh, ok. if PPP was just for the partisan blogs to have fun with, then you'd think they would have dishing out some favorable results in the wisconsin recall elections. instead, they pretty much hit the nail on the head for all the races, including republican wins.

Obama getting less than 50% against a guy who hasn't been running for even a month is not something to crow about.

yeah. although the independent numbers are reassuring. once republicans coalesce around a candidate (next year) things will obviously change.

 

[Incognito]

Gallup confirms PPP's findings actually


https://twitter.com/daveweigel/status/106427997623558144

heh. is gallup for the partisan blogs now, too?! so confused.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Full write up on the Gallup poll
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...s-romney-as-frontrunner-in-newest-gallup-poll

Perry is stealing support from Romney and especially Bachman. Her moment in the sun seems to be nearing an end; part of it is due to Perry out flanking her, but I think her combative, toxic debate performance convinced some people that she wouldn't stand a chance against Obama.

Romney's saving grace might be the crazy stuff Perry has written in his books, but then again Romney supported Paul's budget and is coming out hard against unions today.

 

[besada]

Obama getting less than 50% against a guy who hasn't been running for even a month is not something to crow about.

If you care about August polls in the year before an election, of course.

To be fair, Perry's been "almost" running for close to a year, particularly in conservative arenas. Everyone's been assuming he'd run (except silly people) and he's been out effectively campaigning for quite awhile.

Perry was one of the first politicians to really understand the Tea Party and he's planning on riding them to the nomination. After that, I suspect he'll ditch them like an ugly prom date and try working the independents.

 

[ToxicAdam]

uh, ok. if PPP was just for the partisan blogs to have fun with, then you'd think they would have dishing out some favorable results in the wisconsin recall elections. instead, they pretty much hit the nail on the head for all the races, including republican wins.

They did very good with Wisconsin, but like I said, when you are months away from election, you can create whatever narrative you want and then draw it in as the months get closer.

 

[eznark]

yeah. although the independent numbers are reassuring. once republicans coalesce around
a candidate (next year) things will obviously change.

I wouldn't think so. Independents generally means uninformed. Once they get "informed" (i.e., once they know who their actual choices are) you can expect that number to be a closer reflection of Obama's approval ratings. Unless you think independents will actually break 24% in favor of Obama...I certainly do not, not with this economy. Independents are "biggest issue" voters. The biggest issue of the upcoming election is the economy. Obama might definitely win the independents, but with that kind of margin? No. f'ing. way.

To be fair, Perry's been "almost" running for close to a year, particularly in conservative arenas. Everyone's been assuming he'd run (except silly people) and he's been out effectively campaigning for quite awhile.

You'd only know that if you follow politics. Independents (on the whole, in polling terms) do not follow politics.

 

[reilo]

I wouldn't think so. Independents generally means uninformed. Once they get "informed" (i.e., once they know who their actual choices are) you can expect that number to be a closer reflection of Obama's approval ratings. Unless you think independents will actually break 24% in favor of Obama...I certainly do not, not with this economy. Independents are "biggest issue" voters. The biggest issue of the upcoming election is the economy. Obama might definitely win the independents, but with that kind of margin? No. f'ing. way.

If you win the independent vote, isn't that enough to win the election?

 

[Cyan]

I wouldn't think so. Independents generally means uninformed.

Hey now!

Wait, who are we talking about?

 

[thekad]

I know we have nothing better to do than comment on these polls, but I feel like all of this is pointless. Wake me up next summer.

 

[Plinko]

http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/...y/2011/08/23/id/408411?s=al&promo_code=CE72-1

What? You mean the newcomer into the race (the one who hasn't had the time to be lambasted on national television by his opponents) is actually leading?

I'm stunned!

 

[RustyNails]

##################

I actually think long term this is a good thing for Romney to do.

Romney trying very hard to shake that establishment candidate sticker he's got on. He is sailing full speed ahead for the general election and not even worried about primaries, which is short sighted because Romneycare has the potential to sink his campaign.

 

[RustyNails]

I know we have nothing better to do than comment on these polls, but I feel like all of this is pointless. Wake me up next summer.

Just for time pass, here's something to chew on:

• In August 1999, Texas Gov. George W. Bush led Vice President Al Gore by 55% to 41% in a Gallup trial heat poll. That race ended up in a virtual dead heat, with Gore ultimately winning slightly more of the national popular vote than Bush.
• In August 1995, Kansas Sen. Bob Dole was slightly ahead of President Bill Clinton in a Gallup poll, 48% to 46%. On Election Day 1996, Clinton beat Dole by eight points.
• In August 1983, President Ronald Reagan was ahead of Democrat Walter Mondale by only one point, 44% to 43%. Reagan went on to beat Mondale in a 59% to 41% landslide in the November 1984 election.
• In August 1979, incumbent President Jimmy Carter was tied with former California Gov. Reagan -- each getting 45% of the vote. Reagan ultimately defeated Carter by 10 points.

 

[eznark]

I know we have nothing better to do than comment on these polls, but I feel like all of this is pointless. Wake me up next summer.

I think the state-by-state Presidential approval ratings are interesting and potentially important. The head to head stuff? lulzorz.

 

[Cyan]

What? You mean the newcomer into the race (the one who hasn't had the time to be lambasted on national television by his opponents) is actually leading?

I'm stunned!

Would you, in general, expect the newcomer into a race to immediately be in the lead by a significant margin? And if so, why didn't it work for Huntsman?

 

[ToxicAdam]

Would you, in general, expect the newcomer into a race to immediately be in the lead by a significant margin? And if so, why didn't it work for Huntsman?

Last week, campaign coverage focused on the buzz around newly minted candidate Rick Perry, who made news with some tough and controversial remarks about Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke.

For the week, Perry was a dominant newsmaker in 55% of all the election stories studied by PEJ. The next closest Republican candidate, former Massachusetts governor Mitt Romney, was way back at 6%.

Huntsman never received this kind of coverage.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0811/61922.html

 

[Particle Physicist]

That's pretty incredible considering Perry's lack of name recognition.

He's had super hype. From the media especially.


EDIT

Yup! Just saw your post above mine.