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[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

"Sorry dude, smell ya later!" is seriously Manos' response.

What if he had just died in prison naturally, would you care anywhere as much?

 

[Puddles]

if they weren't around, who would've built all those houses that now remain vacated and foreclosed? no one.

Fuck, I'd do it.

They'd have to pay me more than they can get away with paying immigrants though.

We don't NEED immigrant labor; we just don't want to pay our citizens what the market would dictate for that kind of work.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

What if he had just died in prison naturally, would you care anywhere as much?

Um, yes? Because it wouldn't be at the hands of a government institution that may have gotten it wrong. Are you SERIOUSLY not able to see the difference of an inmate dying naturally of old age and one being put to death by the government? WTF?

 

[MThanded]

Death panels : BOOOOOOOOOOOOOO - Death Penalties: YAYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

Stay free GOP

 

[PhoenixDark]

David Axelrod is probably laughing his ass off. That was pathetic. I thought Huntsman did very well, but he reminds me of one of my favorite adult entertainment series: Too Pretty For Porn. He's simply too sane for the GOP.

Personally I thought Perry bombed a lot of things, but seemed to win the crowd over regardless; the applause for his execution record tells you everything you need to know about who will be determining the GOP nominee. If he wins, Obama might be saved. Perry refused to back down from his social security bashing, and Romney previewed the argument Obama would make against him in the general election.

Bachman was completely marginalized to the same talking points she's been giving for weeks. They're no longer effective now that the tea party has a male avatard in Perry.

 

[Oblivion]

Its funny because I was about to put you in but then I was like "nah I don't want to make the list too long".

But yes you can definitely come on!

Well that makes me a happy panda then.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Your point? Many are guilty, and?

That most of the people on Texas death row are horrible and guilty pieces of crap where there is no evidence suggesting mis-conviction. I never said that the system couldn't use more vigilance or not used in cases where trials have clearly had issues with them, I just said shit happens sometimes.

 

[Tristam]

What if he had just died in prison naturally, would you care anywhere as much?

Of course. I've been a passionate supporter of the West Memphis Three because they were wrongly convicted--but in Texas, Damien Echols would almost certainly be dead now. He's not. He's alive, and he's free. Execution of innocents is obviously irreversible; imprisonment isn't unless they die (well duh).

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Um, yes? Because it wouldn't be at the hands of a government institution that may have gotten it wrong. Are you SERIOUSLY not able to see the difference of an inmate dying naturally of old age and one being put to death by the government? WTF?

Both were denied freedom by the government and died because of it. One actively and one passively, but the outcome is the same, death. To suggest the culpability is different is wrong.

 

[ToxicAdam]

I think it's important to not read too much into Perry's performance tonight. It's his first national debate and not too many people were paying attention. Much like Huntsman, he'll come back stronger in the next one.

He needs some polishing though.


Ron Paul was the biggest disaster tonight. Stumbling over himself, nervous, no real applause lines.

 

[TacticalFox88]

I take back Perry having this in the bag. He lost his oppurtunity to make this a blowout to put the distance between him and Romney even greater.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Look okay, death penalty is a complex issue in some cases, I understand that, but I still support the death penalty (even with chances for errors), but sorry for the derail.

 

[S1lent]

I think it's important to not read too much into Perry's performance tonight. It's his first national debate and not too many people were paying attention. Much like Huntsman, he'll come back stronger in the next one.

He needs some polishing though.


Ron Paul was the biggest disaster tonight. Stumbling over himself, nervous, no real applause lines.

If he doesn't back away from the "ponzi scheme" nonsense quick then he has zero chance in the general election, if he hasn't already destroyed his chances.

 

[ElectricThunder]

All this Reagan talk has me thinking: You know how FOX had a big, strange deal about getting a Fake Obama to talk about things and lightly "debate"?

Right, so at what point does some outfit break out the best Reagan impersonator they can and seriously, well, mind-fuck these guys for the cameras? Or even they loop around themselves and get one on air to somehow "mentor" them and pat them on the head?

It would be surreal and ever so disturbing. All the current GOP is missing is a Grand Avatar of Reagan to make things simple and set things right for them, like all proper cults.

 

[scorcho]

I seriously thought he's sprout wings and snatch a child from the crowd and fly off at one point.

nigga pleaze. he's for liberty.

he would've just shot her with a semi-automatic. that's what you get for gun control laws limiting minors from owning.

 

[Ecotic]

Just stylistically I want anyone but Perry. His slow-talking, can't think on the fly, stumbling over his words mannerisms is giving me Bush PTSD flashbacks. I just can't go back to that.

Relative smooth talkers like Cain or Huntsman were so easy on the ears.

 

[Tristam]

Look okay, death penalty is a complex issue in some cases, I understand that, but I still support the death penalty (even with chances for errors), but sorry for the derail.

I hope you don't change your position if you're wrongly convicted for a capital crime.

 

[scorcho]

Huntsman had a weird cadence to his voice tonight. and he often. paused. at the oddest places.

 

[tanod]

Death panels : BOOOOOOOOOOOOOO - Death Penalties: YAYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

Stay free GOP

Or Abortions: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO - DEATH PENALTIES - YAYYYYY!

Experts in hypocrisy.

 

[Clevinger]

If he doesn't back away from the "ponzi scheme" nonsense quick then he has zero chance in the general election, if he hasn't already destroyed his chances.

Nobody pays attention to the primaries. I'm betting he's hoping that the media will do a shit job in the general election. I'd put money on that bet, too.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

I hope you don't change your position if you're wrongly convicted for a capital crime.

I won't, one has to stay consistent.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Or Abortions: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO - DEATH PENALTIES - YAYYYYY!

Experts in hypocrisy.

At least Im consistent with that. Of course a fetus and a human being aren't the same.

 

[Ulairi]

Huntsman had a weird cadence to his voice tonight. and he often. paused. at the oddest places.

He is sick today.

 

[PhoenixDark]

David Frum is tearing into Perry on twitter. Damn, the Bush folks are focused

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

David Frum is tearing into Perry on twitter. Damn, the Bush folks are focused

Nice

 

[Tristam]

I won't, one has to stay consistent.

Of course, it's important that one is principled on the issue of the death penalty because then one won't vote in unprincipled shitbags like Perry who have no qualms about executing innocent men.

But then, if you were wrongly convicted of a capital crime, I expect your last words to be "the system is valid, and my innocence doesn't change that one bit."

EDIT: Frum's idea that Obama should name his plan "Jobs First" is brilliant. I guess the political class ain't lying when they say Republicans have messaging on lock-down.

 

[ToxicAdam]

If he doesn't back away from the "ponzi scheme" nonsense quick then he has zero chance in the general election, if he hasn't already destroyed his chances.

I think he's at the point of no return on it. It didn't help that Romney absolutely CRUSHED him after his spoke about it.

Maybe his handlers will get a hold of him and make him realize the error of his ways. Anytime that exchange happens in future debates (and it will), Romney will keep looking more viable.

Look okay, death penalty is a complex issue in some cases, I understand that, but I still support the death penalty (even with chances for errors), but sorry for the derail.

You and most Americans. That statistic would get applause at many places around this country.

 

[B!TCH]

Or Abortions: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO - DEATH PENALTIES - YAYYYYY!

Experts in hypocrisy.

This isn't an assertion of my personal politics, but it isn't hypocritical to be against taking an innocent life and for taking the life of a convicted murderer. It's absurd to make a false equivalency between abortion and the death penalty when they are not even in the same ballpark.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Of course, it's important that one is principled on the issue of the death penalty because then one won't vote in unprincipled shitbags like Perry who have no qualms about executing innocent men.

But then, if you were wrongly convicted of a capital crime, I expect your last words to be "the system is valid, and my innocence doesn't change that one bit."
.

I would think it would be a quote from Big Trouble in Little China

 

[TacticalFox88]

I wonder if Obama is revising his speech to take jabs at the Republicans tomorrow?

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

I wonder if Obama is revising his speech to take jabs at the Republicans tomorrow?

You don't acknowledge them too specifically until one is a nominee, you don't want to help make them appear to be on your level.

 

[Tristam]

Perry allowed this book to be published less than a year ago. Did he really not have presidential aspirations then?

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Perry allowed this book to be published less than a year ago. Did he really not have presidential aspirations then?

Maybe he figured no one bought it.

 

[Kalnos]

Too bad no one will vote for Huntsman.

 

[tanod]

This isn't an assertion of my personal politics, but it isn't hypocritical to be against taking an innocent life and for taking the life of a convicted murderer. It's absurd to make a false equivalency between abortion and the death penalty when they are not even in the same ballpark.

For some, the taking of life in any form isn't appropriate and that's a moral argument. The debate of assigning value to innocent vs. guilty people is a legal argument. I'm opposed to Republicans and American christians conflating the two. /derail

 

[imtehman]

holy shit our country is screwed when you have people cheering that 230 people died from the death penalty.

 

[elrechazado]

For some, the taking of life in any form isn't appropriate and that's a moral argument. The debate of assigning value to innocent vs. guilty people is a legal argument. I'm opposed to Republicans and American christians conflating the two. /derail

Wait, assigning value to innocent life is not a moral argument? Your distinction makes no sense, regardless of what side you come down on.

 

[tanod]

Wait, assigning value to innocent life is not a moral argument? Your distinction makes no sense, regardless of what side you come down on.

You're missing the point. Making the comparison between the two is a legal argument since the assignment of guilt itself is a legal principle.

 

[elrechazado]

You're missing the point. Making the comparison between the two is a legal argument since the assignment of guilt itself is a legal principle.

What you said still makes no sense.

 

[Narpas Sword0]

Most fundamentalist americans are neocons first, religious second

In the northeast you would have no problem finding normal christians who are against both abortion and the dean penalty. And war, and poverty

 

[tanod]

What you said still makes no sense.

The only way this doesn't make sense is if you're trying to say

"Killing is wrong."

is the same argument as filling in the blank of the sentence:

"Killing is wrong if..."

 

[SD-Ness]

Most fundamentalist americans are neocons first, religious second

I'd say it's both. Some are more religious and find their politics via Christianity while others are conservatives who happen to be religious.

In the northeast you would have no problem finding normal christians who are against both abortion and the dean penalty. And war, and poverty

I know several Catholic priests (Jesuits) who are like this. One of them went on a rant at the beginning of class when I was in college complaining about how both Obama and McCain weren't for him.

 

[Vanillalite]

Obama Website GOP Debate Watch

 

[empty vessel]

Yeah, guess what life sucks sometimes, it doesn't invalidate the entire system.

Sure it does. It commits the same crime "the system" is intended by perverse people to "remedy." Ergo, it invalidates it. If in the name of curing cancer, I invent a "cure" that spreads cancer, my "cure" is invalidated.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Most fundamentalist americans are neocons first, religious second

In the northeast you would have no problem finding normal christians who are against both abortion and the dean penalty. And war, and poverty

It's funny that people forget that a lot of early and major Neocons were not Christian, but Jewish. They had liberal views, but were upset with what they perceived as a retreat after Vietnam.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0521836565/?tag=neogaf0e-20

This engaging, if shallow, study recounts the epochal post-war migration of Jewish intellectuals from Left to Right. Friedman (What Went Wrong?: The Creation and Collapse of the Black Jewish Alliance), himself a self-avowed Jewish neo-con, surveys his fellow travelers' journey from their socialist salad days to their Cold War shift towards liberal anti-Communism to their revulsion at the counter-cultural excesses of the New Left to their final decampment for Reagan Republicanism.

....

He also argues that Jewish neo-cons helped the larger conservative movement exchange a racist, anti-Semitic aura for intellectual sophistication and social-science chops. Friedman's conservative sympathies and biographical approach mean that he takes neo-con enthusiasms like supply-side economics and the Contra war in Nicaragua largely at face value without subjecting them to serious critical appraisal. Though neither a ground-breaking interpretation nor an incisive analysis of Jewish neo-conservatism, his book is a useful introduction to its history.

Read this during my MA, as the review points out its not definitive, but a good introduction.

 

[RustyNails]

holy shit our country is screwed when you have people cheering that 230 people died from the death penalty.

Those were Perry groupies who were attempting to show support for death penalty and for Perry's stance. Any question on death penalty is seen as an attack by the left. It's like going USA! USA! USA! in order to support/shield the person from being criticized fairly or unfairly.

Edit: If you noticed, the people in front didn't clap

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Those were Perry groupies who were attempting to show support for death penalty and for Perry's stance. Any question on death penalty is seen as an attack by the left. It's like going USA! USA! USA! in order to support/shield the person from being criticized fairly or unfairly.

Which is kind of odd since it really hasn't been a left/right issue for a long time.

Hell Obama defended executing child rapists after it was disallowed by the Supreme Court.

 

[TacticalFox88]

Herman Cain's 999 plan is absolutely dreadful.

 

[SD-Ness]

Sure it does. It commits the same crime "the system" is intended by perverse people to "remedy." Ergo, it invalidates it. If in the name of curing cancer, I invent a "cure" that spreads cancer, my "cure" is invalidated.

I'm against the death penalty but I'm going to play devil's advocate here.

Your analogy doesn't work, imo. The justice system isn't a "cure" for crime, it is an attempt to regulate it. The justice system doesn't "spread crime" in the way your suggesting this cure spreads cancer. It is a deterrent not a cure. I don't think most people would argue that the death penalty causes criminals to commit crime.

 

[ToxicAdam]

Perry elides the Social Security question with a line crafted with care and baked at 400 degrees in a clay oven: "I'm not responsible for Karl any more." But there is now video of Perry calling the promise of Social Security a "monstrous lie." Fantastic for the GOP primary. Untested in a general election since, what, 1964?

bahah