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[Aaron Strife]

It makes sense that Obama's showing his fiercer side over this.

If the debt limit isn't increased and we default, the economy's going in the shitter. The general consensus is the GOP would take a bigger share of the blame for it, but I doubt Obama wants to take that risk. Even in the classic Clinton-Gingrich scenario, the public felt both Clinton and Republicans deserved equal blame for not being able to compromise, it was only after it was made clear that Gingrich did it out of spite that the scales tipped in Clinton's favor.

What would've happened if Obama didn't pass the stimulus? The economy would probably be worse off today (11-12% unemployment maybe?) but it still would've made the turnaround. Or if healthcare reform wasn't passed? Status quo, which apparently a majority of voters in this country were okay with. The reason Obama didn't fight as hard for those things is because a) it really wouldn't have changed anything (losing the healthcare fight has the same result as not fighting it at all), and b) he pretty much got what he wanted anyway (he insisted on the smaller stimulus contrary to Joe Biden and other Democrats' desires, healthcare minus the public option).

This is pretty cut and dry though. We either default or we don't. Not fighting this would be a complete fucking disaster for all parties involved. And Republicans don't realize this - at least, the ones that do aren't the majority of the party.

That's ignoring what it does for his campaign if he DID get some sort of "grand bargain" accomplished. Republicans love to attack Democrats for reckless spending, and Obama's whole modus operandi for the 2012 election to win independents is to position himself as more of a centrist than a liberal. Here's what he gets to say when Romney, Bachmann, etc. tries to paint him as a tax and spend liberal:

"I cut 4 trillion dollars from the deficit. What the fuck did you do?"

He's thinking about the country, but also thinking about himself. And that's a pretty heated combination.

ed: Also I must add - Obama's winning this one. Completely. It's such a refreshing change, even if not everything he's doing (medicare/ss cuts) is awesome.

 

[PantherLotus]

Want a good discussion with a conservative? Ask him or her what the top 5 accomplishments of the "American Civilization" have been. The list may amuse you.

Here's mine:
1. Landing a Human on the moon
2. The Internet
3. Radio | Television | Telecommunications
4. Flight
5. The US Highway System

 

[ToxicAdam]

Mine:

Ronald Reagan saving us from stagflation
Ronald Reagan defeating the USSR
Ronald Reagan saving Social Security
Ronald Reagan providing funding for our national highway system
Internet

 

[NullPointer]

Want a good discussion with a conservative? Ask him or her what the top 5 accomplishments of the "American Civilization" have been. The list may amuse you.

My guesses:
1. Jesus.
2. Football.
3. 2nd Amendment.
4. Our Military.
5. Bacon.

 

[Deku]

ed: Also I must add - Obama's winning this one. Completely. It's such a refreshing change, even if not everything he's doing (medicare/ss cuts) is awesome.

I hope he 'wins'. I am rooting for the Dems and their taxes/cuts plan.

US default is no laughing matter, although seems like you guys here treat it more like a sport.

 

[Aaron Strife]

I hope he 'wins'. I am rooting for the Dems and their taxes/cuts plan.

US default is no laughing matter, although seems like you guys here treat it more like a sport.

Eh, it's the nature of the game.

I guess I'm not taking it as seriously as it is because I know most of the major players, save the tea party assholes, are Wall Street owned. They're not gonna let us default.

Spoiler

i hope

 

[Dude Abides]

I've read a couple of pages back, but I'm confused. Obviously, the Republicans are fucking up on this one, but what are the odds that they will back down off this nonsense and raise the debt ceiling?

It will probably be raised but I think it's still iffy. The GOP is caught between their corporate masters, who want the ceiling raised because failing to do so will wreck the economy, and the teatards who don't because blargh blargh socialism. The former will probably win but there are enough house members who may be willing to go to the wall for the latter that it could get interesting.

 

[Oblivion]

I'll be honest, I'm getting sorta worried about all of this. You'd seriously think Freedomworks and Americans For Prosperity would tell their tea bagger rank and file to stand down at least on this.

 

[Averon]

It will probably be raised but I think it's still iffy. The GOP is caught between their corporate masters, who want the ceiling raised because failing to do so will wreck the economy, and the teatards who don't because blargh blargh socialism. The former will probably win but there are enough house members who may be willing to go to the wall for the latter that it could get interesting.

The GOP is pretty fucked either way, right? If they let us default, they may please the tea party nuts, but their corporate overlords will be pissed at them, and they'll take a nasty hit with independents. If they cave, the tea party will be itching to primary the whole lot of them.

 

[Deku]

I'll be honest, I'm getting sorta worried about all of this. You'd seriously think Freedomworks and Americans For Prosperity would tell their tea bagger rank and file to stand down at least on this.

That assumes the tea party is a drone army. It's obviosuly an astroturfed movement that tapped into a part of the crazy john birch strain of the American right but the people spouting off about Amurca must live within its means and cut everything at all costs truly believe it.

They've just been given free organization and a voice by the Tea party movement.

You can see what the corporate right wants by looking at Fox News coverage, which is fairly tame in terms of stoking the tea party and is diverting that energy instead to playing the political football or how awful Obama is and how Obama is to blame for everything (in case they fail to raise the debt limit) but even if they do manage to raise it, why not just keep blaming Obama.

 

[Jackson50]

The U.S. and Russia signed an accord on Wednesday regarding adoptions. The dispute over adoptions was actually quite contentious. The agreement stipulates that the adopting parents must undergo psychological evaluation and employ only accredited agencies. It is another indication that the Administration's concerted effort to improve bilateral relations is working. The meeting also yielded a tentative agreement on liberalized visa regulations.

Mine:

Ronald Reagan saving us from stagflation
Ronald Reagan defeating the USSR
Ronald Reagan saving Social Security
Ronald Reagan providing funding for our national highway system
Internet

 

[TacticalFox88]

Want a good discussion with a conservative? Ask him or her what the top 5 accomplishments of the "American Civilization" have been. The list may amuse you.

Here's mine:
1. Landing a Human on the moon
2. The Internet
3. Radio | Television | Telecommunications
4. Flight
5. The US Highway System

Hmm...I wonder what those have in comm-wait you mean they were primarily funded by the government!?!?! Blasphemy! The Free Market could've gotten to there ages ago!

 

[state-of-the-art]

The U.S. and Russia signed an accord on Wednesday regarding adoptions. The dispute over adoptions was actually quite contentious. The agreement stipulates that the adopting parents must undergo psychological evaluation and employ only accredited agencies. It is another indication that the Administration's concerted effort to improve bilateral relations is working. The meeting also yielded a tentative agreement on liberalized visa regulations.

I can't stop reading your posts in C-3P0's voice. It's maddening.

 

[Escape Goat]

Watched Rachel Maddow tonight and she ripped Boehner a new one. haha

 

[GhaleonEB]

How long until this turns into a story about how brave Eric Cantor stood up to that totalitarian tax and spend Obama and took such a principled stand that Obama fled the room in shame and rage? Or are we to that point yet?

 

[Oblivion]

That assumes the tea party is a drone army.

lol?

 

[RustyNails]

How long until this turns into a story about how brave Eric Cantor stood up to that totalitarian tax and spend Obama and took such a principled stand that Obama fled the room in shame and rage? Or are we to that point yet?

Tomorrow morning in the Rush Limbaugh show. Book it. It will also have some racial undertones about angry black men.

 

[NullPointer]

How long until this turns into a story about how brave Eric Cantor stood up to that totalitarian tax and spend Obama and took such a principled stand that Obama fled the room in shame and rage? Or are we to that point yet?

Possible. I think they'll use plan B for this one though:

 

[Deku]

lol?

Did you read the rest of my post? I thought smilies were disabled precisely to diffuse responses like this one.

 

[Jackson50]

How long until this turns into a story about how brave Eric Cantor stood up to that totalitarian tax and spend Obama and took such a principled stand that Obama fled the room in shame and rage? Or are we to that point yet?

I only hope they do not criticize him for a lack of bipartisanship. But I an totally envision it.

I can't stop reading your posts in C-3P0's voice. It's maddening.

At least you do not read it in Chewbacca's voice. Be thankful.

 

[Dude Abides]

The GOP is pretty fucked either way, right? If they let us default, they may please the tea party nuts, but their corporate overlords will be pissed at them, and they'll take a nasty hit with independents. If they cave, the tea party will be itching to primary the whole lot of them.

I think so. The leadership has been bluffing, but there's a chance the teatards will play chicken until it's the end.

If the ceiling isn't raised and default happens the economy will go to such shit will be such a mess that it's hard to tell who would ultimately benefit.

 

[state-of-the-art]

At least you do not read it in Chewbacca's voice. Be thankful.

That wouldn't be a big deal. There is an app for that.

The odds of the media successfully navigating the GOP's bullshit are 7320 to 1!

 

[Clevinger]

I think so. The leadership has been bluffing, but there's a chance the teatards will play chicken until it's the end.

If the ceiling isn't raised and default happens the economy will go to such shit will be such a mess that it's hard to tell who would ultimately benefit.

Yeah, there's been a couple articles about the freshmen Republican congressmen who are real true believers in not raising the debt limit. Like, not playing politics, but really don't want to vote for it because it's wrong.

I think it's almost certain that the other Republicans will knock sense into them if need be, but still.

 

[PantherLotus]

Aren't those the same guys that non-jokingly suggest lowering it?

 

[soul creator]

Watched Rachel Maddow tonight and she ripped Boehner a new one. haha

wrong thread

Spoiler

well she technically cut it, but whatever

 

[Admiral Bone to Pick]

Woah.

I stopped following politics a couple of weeks ago, mainly because things that never improve or make progress frustrate me. Are things actually getting done in Washington? What did I miss?

 

[Clevinger]

Woah.

I stopped following politics a couple of weeks ago, mainly because things that never improve or make progress frustrate me. Are things actually getting done in Washington? What did I miss?

If by "things getting down" you mean "the bare essentials to run our government may continue without too much of a cost", then yeah.

 

[ToxicAdam]

I think some of you people are forgetting that when people say the 'country is on the wrong track', they mean that very seriously. It's not just a euphemism.

Then when you see these same people that are attracted to gold as an investment, survival kits, guns and ammo and whatnot, you can see why they would welcome and encourage the country into becoming insolvent. They are ready for what they see as inevitable, even if they are the ones that will help nudge it along.

 

[Rubenov]

I think some of you people are forgetting that when people say the 'country is on the wrong track', they mean that very seriously. It's not just a euphemism.

Then when you see these same people that are attracted to gold as an investment, survival kits, guns and ammo and whatnot, you can see why they would welcome and encourage the country into becoming insolvent. They are ready for what they see as inevitable, even if they are the ones that will help nudge it along.

So, the future of our country is tied to people that can't wait to shoot zombies. Great.

 

[sc0la]

"That's when he got very agitated and said I've sat here long enough -- that no other president -- Ronald Reagan -- would sit here like this -- and that he's reached the point that something's gotta give," Cantor said,

There's a great joke in there about "conservative tourettes syndrome" that I find hard to resist.

"I was somewhat taken aback," Cantor said. When he continued to press the issue, Cantor said, Obama "shoved back from the table, said 'I'll see you tomorrow' and walked out."

"C U Next Tuesday, Eric"

 

[Averon]

Cantor is such a whiny little ass. Is this his new tactic to make Obama cave? Run to the media and cry about how Obama was so harsh with him?

 

[reilo]

If this description of Obama by Cantor is true, then I love it. More please.

 

[Chichikov]

Whoa, a day late, but Glen Beck talked in the fucking Knesset?
What the fuck is going on down there?

p.s.
Man, Jon Stewart KILLED it on his Bachmann bit tonight.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Tomorrow morning in the Rush Limbaugh show. Book it. It will also have some racial undertones about angry black men.

Josh Marshall tweet:

GOP pushing 'Obama lost his cool', is volatile, shaky meme.Doesnt seem like credible take but curious how yr seeing press play it.​

Cantor is such a dipshit.

If this description of Obama by Cantor is true, then I love it. More please.

I think it's telling that even Cantor's take on things doesn't put himself in a good light.

 

[The Chosen One]

This is definitely round 12 of a heavyweight match with Obama just pulling off a rope-a-dope. Republicans have punched themselves out and are completely stunned that Obama is still standing.

I'm interested to see how and if Republicans can get themselves out of this corner. My guess is that the House GOP/Tea Party wing will probably get screwed over by the GOP Senate/establishment. House members are expendable but the GOP overlords aren't.

Seems the only two options that will happen are:

1). The Mitch "Surrender" plan. This is a complete winner for Obama and Dems since they can do whatever they want. They could pass a clean bill or close tax loopholes.

2). Short-term extension. Clearly Eric Cantor sees this as his only out right now, which is why he is pushing so hard for it right now. I hope Obama sticks to his guns and doesn't do a short-term extension.

Also with Option 1, I could see Obama throwing in some spending cuts to appease independents. As long as he doesn't do any Medicare cuts, he can pretty much have his cake and eat it too. He can show that he tried reducing the deficit some even without Republicans on-board and Dems can still paint House GOPers as "granny killers" in 2012 for voting for the Ryan Plan.

I'm getting a lot of satisfaction seeing the Republicans finally getting burned for their obstruction. Obama gave them a golden compromise to reduce the deficit and to get off the hook for their Ryan-care vote, but they let their "No Tax" religion and "Obama Hatred" get in the way.

 

[Rubenov]

Seems the only two options that will happen are:

1). The Mitch "Surrender" plan. This is a complete winner for Obama and Dems since they can do whatever they want. They could pass a clean bill or close tax loopholes.

2). Short-term extension. Clearly Eric Cantor sees this as his only out right now, which is why he is pushing so hard for it right now. I hope Obama sticks to his guns and doesn't do a short-term extension.

I don't see Option 1 as much of a win; having this issue arise a few more times during election season won't be pretty for Obama.

 

[NihonTiger90]

Josh Marshall tweet:

GOP pushing 'Obama lost his cool', is volatile, shaky meme.Doesnt seem like credible take but curious how yr seeing press play it.​

They're trying. At least the ones with a conservative lean.

 

[Tamanon]

It's going to be a hard sell to portray "The Professor"(the previous slur against President Obama) as a man ruled by anger.

 

[Chichikov]

It's going to be a hard sell to portray "The Professor"(the previous slur against President Obama) as a man ruled by anger.

ANGRY BLACK MAN always wins over uppity professor.

 

[sc0la]

ANGRY BLACK MAN always wins over uppity professor.

What happens when it's both?

Spoiler

teachable moment

 

[Oblivion]

Did you read the rest of my post? I thought smilies were disabled precisely to diffuse responses like this one.

I did, actually. Not saying anything was wrong with it, but just thought that part funny is all.

 

[thekad]

It's going to be a hard sell to portray "The Professor"(the previous slur against President Obama) as a man ruled by anger.

Who, Obama, the socialist, communist, corporatist, atheist secular Muslim?

 

[The Chosen One]

I don't see Option 1 as much of a win; having this issue arise a few more times during election season won't be pretty for Obama.

But it won't be nearly as protracted because he'll essentially have the authority to just raise the debt ceiling unilaterally.

 

[aperman]

Any Ron Paul fans here?

Voted for him back in 2008. One of 16,000 in the nation IIRC...

 

[Averon]

It's going to be a hard sell to portray "The Professor"(the previous slur against President Obama) as a man ruled by anger.

I don't think it will be hard at all, unfortunately. The GOP are masters at pushing a message repeatedly until it's taken as truth--regardless of whether it's true or not. Also, I'm sure the media will help the GOP get the message out.

 

[Clevinger]

Any Ron Paul fans here?

Gaborn and a couple guys with Ron Paul avatars. I think that's about it.

 

[soul creator]

"I was somewhat taken aback," Cantor said. When he continued to press the issue, Cantor said, Obama "shoved back from the table, said 'I'll see you tomorrow' and walked out."

for some reason, I imagined this as the laughing Shaq gif, but with Obama instead.

in other news, wtf, there's a Congressional Prayer Caucus?. Found out about it in relation to this:

NBC Apologizes to Congress for Edited Pledge

yeah, apparently this is a real story.

 

[manipulate]

Ronald Reagan saving us from stagflation
Ronald Reagan defeating the USSR
Ronald Reagan saving Social Security
Ronald Reagan providing funding for our national highway system
Internet

I love this.

 

[Oblivion]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036697/#43746184

Goddamn, Steve King's a fucking tool.

 

[XMonkey]

Love how the GOP is caught between their rabid Tea Party supporters, their corporate overlords, and the American public they've been feeding bullshit to for the last couple months

Spoiler

years

. I'm convinced now Obama is certain there's no way the GOP will let those corporate interests down by defaulting so he really can hold their feet to the fire. If only he was this shrewd all the time (or gifted such amenable circumstances).