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PoliGAF 2011: Of Weiners, Boehners, Santorum, and Teabags

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C

ClovingWestbrook

Banned
Hybrid anybody?
WASHINGTON -- The Senate's top two officials are working on what one aide called a "hybrid," fail-safe solution to the debt ceiling debate that could garner enough political support to pass Congress.

The plan, which is being hatched by Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.), would ensure that over $1.5 trillion in cuts over ten years be passed into law. It would also grant President Obama the authority to extend the debt ceiling through the 2012 election season while requiring him to propose -- but allowing him to ultimately veto -- cuts beyond those initial $1.5 trillion.

Additionally, the deal would create a new "deficit commission" compromised solely of lawmakers who would be tasked with finding additional savings in the budget. The commission's recommendations would be given automatic, amendment-free votes in both chambers of Congress.

First reported by The Washington Post, the plan is far from complete. A Republican source on the Hill cautioned not to treat it as an official option, let alone a top one. "There are a lot of people with a lot of ideas," the source said. A Democratic source said that the language -- let alone composition -- of each part of the deal remains un-finalized.

But the contours do, on the surface, seem promising. The basic premise is to blend the debt ceiling deal crafted in talks led by Vice President Joe Biden with the plan that McConnell proposed this week, which would give the president authority to raise the debt ceiling while vetoing corresponding cuts.

As the dual plan is envisioned, House Republicans would be able to claim that they passed a deal without including revenue raisers or tax hikes. The president, meanwhile, will be able to move the debt ceiling debate into 2013, albeit while having to hold a largely pre-determined vote for a second extension (once the $1.5 trillion in cuts run out) before the election. Democrats would have to swallow a deal that didn't include revenues, but they will have protected entitlement programs like Social Security and Medicare from cuts.

"It is a hybrid approach," said the Democratic official familiar with the proposal. "It is a way to get us some cuts now while making sure we have an option that we do not default on our debt."

While the concept may seem politically palatable, it could easily fall apart over the specific details. For starters, negotiators are not yet locked in to the actual cuts that have been suggested during the Biden talks. The president, meanwhile, continues to push for a larger package of cuts and reforms. The failure to include revenue increases in the hybrid plan could pose serious problems for Democratic lawmakers. Further, the composition of the deficit commission -- let alone the number of members -- is subject to haggling.

"There is a lot of detail on the commission part not locked," acknowledged one source familiar with the McConnell-Reid talks.

UPDATE: Speaking to reporters on Thursday, Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) seemed to embrace the idea of combining the McConnell approach with the Biden talks.

"We would like to see, even if we can't get a grand deal, that some real cuts be added to Senator McConnell's proposal and perhaps Senator McConnell's proposal be modified," Schumer said. "That is another possibility, not as good as a larger deal, but certainly better than just avoiding default."
Click to expand...
.
 
E

Evlar

Banned
I think the chances of these deals coming to fruition can be anticipated by noting that the Senate majority and minority leaders are debating these concessions... when the major constituency preventing the debt ceiling from being raised this afternoon is the House Republican caucus.
 
G

GaimeGuy

Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
LovingSteam said:
.
Click to expand...
I like how obama has proposed far more than $1.5T in cuts, and hundreds of billions in tax increases (combined, the cuts and tax increases would add up to $4T in deficit reduction over 10 years) but the republicans would rather half-ass the spending cuts, keep taxes the same, and reduce the deficit by about 37.5% the amount Obama's proposal would (and far less reduction in spending).

Yet somehow, it's obama who is uncompromising, big spending, and difficult to work with.

I hate this country.
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
I'd still like to see a revenue increase.

We don't take in nearly enough money we need to maintain the life we're used to living in thus country, and the life we deserve.
 
G

GaimeGuy

Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
gcubed said:
They should ask Newt how it worked out for the GOP last time they did
Click to expand...
this is NOT the same thing as a government shutdown. a government shutdown would be failing to pass a budget. This would be hitting a brick wall and being unable to add any additional credit to our accounts. The moment we fail to meet a payment to a creditor, what do you thiink that would do to our interest rates?

This would cause a shutdown and a debt blowout
 
B

Blergmeister

Member
LovingSteam said:
.
Click to expand...
I'm confused. This is just the worst parts of the Biden deal from the Dem perspective along with the worst parts of the McConnel failsafe? If they wouldn't take the Biden deal minus the revenues why would they take the Biden deal minus revenues + blowback political theater during election season? They get none of the good of increased revenues nor no-cuts debt limit increase.
 
G

gcubed

Member
GaimeGuy said:
this is NOT the same thing as a government shutdown. a government shutdown would be failing to pass a budget. This would be hitting a brick wall and being unable to add any additional credit to our accounts. The moment we fail to meet a payment to a creditor, what do you thiink that would do to our interest rates?

This would cause a shutdown and a debt blowout
Click to expand...

i wasnt talking about the end result, just public sentiment against the GOP
 
E

eznark

Banned
Dude Abides said:
Fixed.
Click to expand...

It's a whole new world of claiming people are gay!

First homosexual World Champion Super Bowl Quarterback Aaron Rodgers of the Green Bay Packers? That would be freaking awesome!
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
Blergmeister said:
I'm confused. This is just the worst parts of the Biden deal from the Dem perspective along with the worst parts of the McConnel failsafe? If they wouldn't take the Biden deal minus the revenues why would they take the Biden deal minus revenues + blowback political theater during election season? They get none of the good of increased revenues nor no-cuts debt limit increase.
Click to expand...
Sounds like it. I can't see that as anything but a huge mistake on Obama's part.
 
P

Particle Physicist

between a quark and a baryon
eznark said:
I thought this kind of stuff was deemed wildly offensive?
Click to expand...


What is wildly offensive is Marcus Bachmann's comments towards gays and the LGBT community. There is also precedence where such staunch anti-gay republicans turn out to be homosexuals. His demeanor and stereotypically gay lisp just adds to that.

In conclusion, fuck him and his horrendous beliefs.
 
C

ClovingWestbrook

Banned
Looks like the Republicans are now placing all blame upon Obama for this mess. Accordingt to Mitch, Obama is to blame because he didn't accept the Republicans demands.

So... pretty much nothing is new.
 
C

Chichikov

Member
eznark said:
It's a whole new world of claiming people are gay!

First homosexual World Champion Super Bowl Quarterback Aaron Rodgers of the Green Bay Packers? That would be freaking awesome!
Click to expand...
First?
Troy Aikman would like a word with you.

Seriously though, it's shocking that no athlete had realized that there's a chance to be Jackie fucking Robinson here.
And it's not going to be nearly as bad as what Robinson had to endure.
 
G

GaimeGuy

Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
LovingSteam said:
Looks like the Republicans are now placing all blame upon Obama for this mess. Accordingt to Mitch, Obama is to blame because he didn't accept the Republicans demands.

So... pretty much nothing is new.
Click to expand...
but he's giving them more cuts than they're asking for....
 
F

FLEABttn

Banned
gcubed said:
good thing there isnt a random republican running? This poll is useless with candidates.
Click to expand...

Any day to day public opinion poll is worthless if it's more than 3 months out from an election. There's a million things that can happen between now and this time next year and I don't think your average voters remembers what happens 12 days ago, let alone 12 months.
 
C

Clevinger

Member
GaimeGuy said:
I like how obama has proposed far more than $1.5T in cuts, and hundreds of billions in tax increases (combined, the cuts and tax increases would add up to $4T in deficit reduction over 10 years) but the republicans would rather half-ass the spending cuts, keep taxes the same, and reduce the deficit by about 37.5% the amount Obama's proposal would (and far less reduction in spending).

Yet somehow, it's obama who is uncompromising, big spending, and difficult to work with.

I hate this country.
Click to expand...

Pretty much. And I love how "Obama's putting his foot down" means absolutely fuckall. No tax hikes? Sure, sure. Please don't hurt me.
 
A

Admiral Bone to Pick

Banned
As far as I'm concerned, there's only one Republican who could beat Obama in 2012 at this point, and he's not running. And in 1995, Clinton had pretty poor approval ratings (in the 40s), but he still won re-election because the Republican candidate was terrible. I imagine a similar situation in 2012.
 
I

Invisible_Insane

Member
Mr. Serious Business said:
As far as I'm concerned, there's only one Republican who could beat Obama in 2012 at this point, and he's not running. And in 1995, Clinton had pretty poor approval ratings (in the 40s), but he still won re-election because the Republican candidate was terrible. I imagine a similar situation in 2012.
Click to expand...
Don't be coy, who is this savior of yours?

Neeson 2012!
 
A

Admiral Bone to Pick

Banned
Invisible_Insane said:
Don't be coy, who is this savior of yours?

Neeson 2012!
Click to expand...

Oh man, I wish. If he wasn't from the UK, he'd be amazing. Nobody in Congress would defy him.

But the only Republican I think has a chance in hell of beating Obama is Bobby Jindal. He has a lot of advantages working for him (young, ethnic diversity, absurdly popular in his state, responded well to Hurricane Gustav, consistently conservative). I mean...Mitt Romney was a joke of a candidate in a field of joke candidates in 2008. 2012 will just be a disaster.
 
B

Bulbo Urethral Baggins

Banned
gcubed said:
good thing there isnt a random republican running? This poll is useless without candidates.
Click to expand...
I don't think it's totally useless. It does show that independents are becoming disillusioned with Obama. But as far as predicting the election? Yes... useless.
 
empty vessel

empty vessel

Member
TacticalFox88 said:
....Weren't Independents supposed to be the *smart* ones?
Click to expand...

No. In the US, 'independents' refers overwhelmingly to that mindless glob of people who think that being a 'centrist' or 'moderate' is taking a political stance.
 
E

eznark

Banned
TacticalFox88 said:
....Weren't Independents supposed to be the *smart* ones? I refuse to believe they are that stupid as a whole. WTF, America?
Click to expand...

"They don't agree with me, why are they so stupid!!!!!"
 
H

HylianTom

Banned
Mr. Serious Business said:
Oh man, I wish. If he wasn't from the UK, he'd be amazing. Nobody in Congress would defy him.

But the only Republican I think has a chance in hell of beating Obama is Bobby Jindal. He has a lot of advantages working for him (young, ethnic diversity, absurdly popular in his state, responded well to Hurricane Gustav, consistently conservative). I mean...Mitt Romney was a joke of a candidate in a field of joke candidates in 2008. 2012 will just be a disaster.
Click to expand...

The Republicans I talk to here at home are getting increasingly disillusioned with Jindal, but I do wonder if he might be on the list of potential VP candidates. If he were named to the ticket, the networks would immediately pull out their footage of that god-awful primetime SOTU response speech, along with the requisite Kenneth the Page comparisons..
 
G

gcubed

Member
Bulbo Urethral Baggins said:
I don't think it's totally useless. It does show that independents are becoming disillusioned with Obama. But as far as predicting the election? Yes... useless.
Click to expand...

it shows they are disillusioned with Obama, but hate anything the GOP has even more since when they put a name for him to run against he wins.
 
A

Admiral Bone to Pick

Banned
HylianTom said:
The Republicans I talk to here at home are getting increasingly disillusioned with Jindal, but I do wonder if he might be on the list of potential VP candidates. If he were named to the ticket, the networks would immediately pull out their footage of that god-awful primetime SOTU response speech, along with the requisite Kenneth the Page comparisons..
Click to expand...

Yeah, he would also be a really strong choice for VP too. The great thing about the Republicans is that they're masters of image. If they can convince Americans that a Northeastern preppy is actually a west Texas rancher, I believe they could do anything.
 
S

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
gcubed said:
it shows they are disillusioned with Obama, but hate anything the GOP has even more since when they put a name for him to run against he wins.
Click to expand...

This is generally when people are supposed to vote for a 3rd party.
Stupid perceived 2 party system.
 
N

NihonTiger90

Member
Those polls are like saying, "Hey, we're giving you a new car. You can either have this 2011 Ford Focus, or you can have a sports car."

Of course, most people will say "sports car" because it could mean anything.

But then, they reveal that your choices for sports car are a Pontiac Fiero, a Ford Mustang II or a DeLorean (not the cool BttF ones ... the real car, which was a total clunker). Suddenly, that Focus doesn't look so bad, does it?
 
R

RustyNails

Member
B

Big Baybee

Member
HylianTom said:
The Republicans I talk to here at home are getting increasingly disillusioned with Jindal, but I do wonder if he might be on the list of potential VP candidates. If he were named to the ticket, the networks would immediately pull out their footage of that god-awful primetime SOTU response speech, along with the requisite Kenneth the Page comparisons..
Click to expand...
Jindal is terrible. Louisiana Republicans hate him. You get what you vote for. As a state worker I despise this man.
 
H

HylianTom

Banned
Big Baybee said:
Jindal is terrible. Louisiana Republicans hate him. You get what you vote for. As a state worker I despise this man.
Click to expand...
I'm looking forward to his departure, but have no faith in Louisiana voters to pick anyone of worth to replace him. And then they'll whine, "Why are all of the young, talented, educated people leaving the state? Waaah.."
 
D

Diablos

Member
Mr. Serious Business said:
Oh man, I wish. If he wasn't from the UK, he'd be amazing. Nobody in Congress would defy him.

But the only Republican I think has a chance in hell of beating Obama is Bobby Jindal. He has a lot of advantages working for him (young, ethnic diversity, absurdly popular in his state, responded well to Hurricane Gustav, consistently conservative). I mean...Mitt Romney was a joke of a candidate in a field of joke candidates in 2008. 2012 will just be a disaster.
Click to expand...
Bobby Jindal? Really? He's a creeper. I don't think he'd do so well on the national stage. He'd be more ideal as a VP.

Romney can win the nomination and the Presidency if he plays his cards right. Bachmann is batshit insane but if the economy is doing bad enough and she runs a good campaign, I don't doubt that she could get the nomination. The notion that she's "too crazy" to win is kind of naive. George W. Bush is a nutcase, we all knew it, and he won. Fact is, a lot of the GOP candidates could win the nomination with relative ease and all have an equally legitimate shot at taking the WH from Obama. He's not doing well at all. Clinton had an improving economy on his side and an opposition that was far less aggressive (would you believe) than this one. The GOP paid attention to how Clinton worked things to his advantage and are making this all about perception/2012.

Everyone should be getting seriously concerned about Obama. Republicans hate him, independents are giving up on him, liberals are growing more and more dissatisfied too. It's just not looking good. Period.
 
H

HylianTom

Banned
Diablos said:
Everyone should be getting seriously concerned about Obama. Republicans hate him, independents are giving up on him, liberals are growing more and more dissatisfied too. It's just not looking good. Period.
Click to expand...

I kinda wish Ginsburg would step down. Soon. My worry about next year would pretty much dissipate.
 
G

gcubed

Member
Diablos said:
Bobby Jindal? Really? He's a creeper. I don't think he'd do so well on the national stage. He'd be more ideal as a VP.

Romney can win the nomination and the Presidency if he plays his cards right. Bachmann is batshit insane but if the economy is doing bad enough and she runs a good campaign, I don't doubt that she could get the nomination. The notion that she's "too crazy" to win is kind of naive. George W. Bush is a nutcase, we all knew it, and he won. Fact is, a lot of the GOP candidates could win the nomination with relative ease and all have an equally legitimate shot at taking the WH from Obama. He's not doing well at all. Clinton had an improving economy on his side and an opposition that was far less aggressive (would you believe) than this one. The GOP paid attention to how Clinton worked things to his advantage and are making this all about perception/2012.

Everyone should be getting seriously concerned about Obama. Republicans hate him, independents are giving up on him, liberals are growing more and more dissatisfied too. It's just not looking good. Period.
Click to expand...

no
 
B

Bulbo Urethral Baggins

Banned
NihonTiger90 said:
Those polls are like saying, "Hey, we're giving you a new car. You can either have this 2011 Ford Focus, or you can have a sports car."

Of course, most people will say "sports car" because it could mean anything.

But then, they reveal that your choices for sports car are a Pontiac Fiero, a Ford Mustang II or a DeLorean (not the cool BttF ones ... the real car, which was a total clunker). Suddenly, that Focus doesn't look so bad, does it?
Click to expand...
I'd still take the DeLorean. But never mention the Mustang II again please.
 
S

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Actually, the new Ford Focus is no longer a piece of shit here in the US.
 
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