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PoliGAF 2012 Community Thread |OT2| This thread title is now under military control

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War Peaceman

You're a big guy.
Mitt Romney told Jewish donors Monday that their culture is part of what has allowed them to be more economically successful than the Palestinians, outraging Palestinian leaders who called his comments racist and out of touch.

While on paper rather disgusting, there is some justification in that isolated cultures, usually religious minorities, can be disproportionately successful. Jews are the classic example throughout history, but particularly in Weimar Germany where they dominated many of the upper echelons of the professional class. Similarly Philadelphia (and NE coast in general) saw very prosperous Quaker communities.

Obviously what he said is tasteless and highly undiplomatic.
 
While on paper rather disgusting, there is some justification in that isolated cultures, usually religious minorities, can be disproportionately successful. Jews are the classic example throughout history, but particularly in Weimar Germany where they dominated many of the upper echelons of the professional class. Similarly Philadelphia (and NE coast in general) saw very prosperous Quaker communities.

Obviously what he said is tasteless and highly undiplomatic.
the problem isn't with the statement the Jews have been successful because of their culture. It's the comparison to the palestinians and complete ignorance of any history.

it's dog whistle politics for racists anti Muslim voters. That Muslims are by their very nature incapable of being successful by themselves. They need to west to teach them. See his comments about the bush's freedom agenda the other day.
 
Romney praises Israel's Universal Healthcare System. Including the individual Mandate

Throughout his presidential campaign, Mitt Romney has been running away from the individual insurance mandate in the Affordable Care Act — even though a mandate is a cornerstone of the former Massachusetts governor’s health care reform law. “If I’m President of the United States, we’re gonna get rid of Obamacare and return, under our constitution, the 10th Amendment, the responsibility and care of health care to the people in the states,” Romney said during a GOP presidential debate.

But during his trip to Israel, Romney inadvertently praised the individual requirement and universal health care. “[F]or an American abroad, you can’t get much closer to the ideals and convictions of my own country than you do in Israel,” he said. And according to The New York Times, Romney spoke favorably about the fact that health care makes up a much smaller amount of Israel’s gross domestic product compared to the United States:

“Do you realize what health care spending is as a percentage of the G.D.P. in Israel? Eight percent,” he said. “You spend eight percent of G.D.P. on health care. You’re a pretty healthy nation. We spend 18 percent of our G.D.P. on health care, 10 percentage points more. That gap, that 10 percent cost, compare that with the size of our military — our military which is 4 percent, 4 percent. Our gap with Israel is 10 points of G.D.P. We have to find ways — not just to provide health care to more people, but to find ways to fund and manage our health care costs.”
Israel spends less on health care because of a universal health system that requires everyone to have insurance.

Every Israeli citizen has the obligation to purchase health care services through one of the country’s four HMOs since government officials approved the National Health Insurance Law in 1995. People pay for 40 percent of their HMO’s costs through income-related contributions collected through the tax system, and the state pays the remaining 60 percent. And by many standards, Israelis are getting better health care than U.S. citizens. The infant mortality rate is much lower, and its mortality rate due to heart disease is half the U.S. rate.

Orly Manor, dean of the Hadassah-Hebrew University Braun School of Public Health, said U.S. officials could “learn a lot from the Israeli system. The quality is high, and the outcomes are good.” And it seems that, following his trip to Jerusalem, Romney would agree.


OMFG, hahahahaha. This dude just doesn't stop. Bwhahahaha
 

AlteredBeast

Fork 'em, Sparky!
Nowhere as bad as the picture they used with intense contrast in black and white that made him look absolutely insane. At least the wimp article is mostly true and sad.
 
Lulz.

Pentagon: We seriously don't need anymore Abrams tanks. We have rows of them gathering dust.

Congressmen: Oh yes you do. We've been bought and paid for by the manufacturers!

Pentagon: We need to save our budget and apply it for a new world strategy.

Congressmen: We've already cashed their checks dammit!

*sigh*

The M1 Abrams tank has survived the Cold War, two conflicts in Iraq and a decade of war in Afghanistan. No wonder – it weighs as much as nine elephants and is fitted with a cannon capable of turning a building to rubble from two and a half miles away.

But now the machine finds itself a target in an unusual battle between the Defense Department and lawmakers who are the beneficiaries of large donations by its manufacturer.

The Pentagon, facing smaller budgets and looking towards a new global strategy, has decided it wants to save as much as $3 billion by freezing refurbishment of the M1 from 2014 to 2017, so it can redesign the hulking, clanking vehicle from top to bottom.

Its proposal would idle a large factory in Lima, Ohio, as well as halt work at dozens of subcontractors in Pennsylvania, Michigan and other states.


Opposing the Pentagon’s plans is Abrams manufacturer General Dynamics, a nationwide employer that has pumped millions of dollars into congressional elections over the last decade. The tank’s supporters on Capitol Hill say they are desperate to save jobs in their districts and concerned about undermining America’s military capability.

So far, the contractor is winning the battle, after a well-organized campaign of lobbying and political donations involving the lawmakers on four key committees that will decide the tanks’ fate, according to an analysis of spending and lobbying records by the Center for Public Integrity.

Sharp spikes in the company’s donations – including a two-week period in 2011 when its employees and political action committee sent the lawmakers checks for their campaigns totaling nearly $50,000 – roughly coincided with five legislative milestones for the Abrams, including committee hearings and votes and the defense bill’s final passage last year.

After putting the tank money back in the budget then, both the House and Senate Armed Services Committees have again authorized it this year — $181 million in the House and $91 million in the Senate. If the company and its supporters prevail, the Army will refurbish what Army Chief of Staff Ray Odierno described in a February hearing as “280 tanks that we simply do not need.”

It already has more than 2,300 M1’s deployed with U.S. forces around the world and roughly 3,000 more sitting idle in long rows outdoors at a remote military base in California’s Sierra mountains.

The $3 billion at stake in this fight is not a large sum in Pentagon terms – it’s roughly what the building spends every 82 minutes. But the fight over the Abrams’ future, still unfolding, illuminates the major pressures that drive the current defense spending debate.
These include a Pentagon looking to free itself from legacy projects and modernize some of its combat strategy, a Congress looking to defend pet projects and a well-financed and politically savvy defense industry with deep ties to both, fighting tooth-and-nail to fend off even small reductions in the budget now devoted to the military – a total figure that presently composes about half of all discretionary spending.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
PicardDoubleFacepalm-1.jpg


Sorry, but there is nothing else to say to that. (I'm not gonna get banned for that right? I didn't see no facepalms in the FAQs or anything, but I figured I should check)
 

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
Sorry, but there is nothing else to say to that. (I'm not gonna get banned for that right? I didn't see no facepalms in the FAQs or anything, but I figured I should check)
A single small facepalm pic? You're fine.

Hell, that story deserves two.
 

GaimeGuy

Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
Congress - and people in general, really - need to underestand that sooner or later, your work WILL become outdated/obsolete, and that goes for pretty much everyone in manufacturing and service industries.

that weapons system? Old and bloated.

That air traffic control system? doesn't fulfill the needs of modern air travel.

That car? Completely inefficient.

The sooner everyone realizes that when it's time to move on, it's time to move on, the better.
 

gcubed

Member
Congress - and people in general, really - need to underestand that sooner or later, your work WILL become outdated/obsolete, and that goes for pretty much everyone in manufacturing and service industries.

that weapons system? Old and bloated.

That air traffic control system? doesn't fulfill the needs of modern air travel.

That car? Completely inefficient.

The sooner everyone realizes that when it's time to move on, it's time to move on, the better.

its another case of "we hate stimulus spending, unless its the military, then its not stimulus spending, its just the military"
 

AlteredBeast

Fork 'em, Sparky!
its another case of "we hate stimulus spending, unless its the military, then its not stimulus spending, its just the military"

Imagine had the federal government spent the billions from the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq on infrastructure. High-speed rail zig-zagging through the country, aging telecom and data lines replaced with fiber optics from end to end, roads as smooth as a baby's bottom, dilapidated housing projects from the 60's and 70's replaced with energy efficient buildings, etc.

Hell, a fraction of the military budget could have been used to feed the hungry and clothe the poor for years to come. How messed up are our priorities as a society?
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Imagine had the federal government spent the billions from the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq on infrastructure. High-speed rail zig-zagging through the country, aging telecom and data lines replaced with fiber optics from end to end, roads as smooth as a baby's bottom, dilapidated housing projects from the 60's and 70's replaced with energy efficient buildings, etc.

Hell, a fraction of the military budget could have been used to feed the hungry and clothe the poor for years to come. How messed up are our priorities as a society?

Bu-bu-bu-but BOOTSTRAPS
 
Imagine had the federal government spent the billions from the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq on infrastructure. High-speed rail zig-zagging through the country, aging telecom and data lines replaced with fiber optics from end to end, roads as smooth as a baby's bottom, dilapidated housing projects from the 60's and 70's replaced with energy efficient buildings, etc.

Hell, a fraction of the military budget could have been used to feed the hungry and clothe the poor for years to come. How messed up are our priorities as a society?

TuPac said it best...we got money for wars but can't feed the poor.

This is only going to make him more endearing to the base.

And no negative effects otherwise.
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Imagine had the federal government spent the billions from the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq on infrastructure. High-speed rail zig-zagging through the country, aging telecom and data lines replaced with fiber optics from end to end, roads as smooth as a baby's bottom, dilapidated housing projects from the 60's and 70's replaced with energy efficient buildings, etc.

Hell, a fraction of the military budget could have been used to feed the hungry and clothe the poor for years to come. How messed up are our priorities as a society?

"But if we cut the military budget, our country will be invaded instantly and the poor will have nowhere to live! We can't do that!"

--Republican
 

KingGondo

Banned
Imagine had the federal government spent the billions from the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq on infrastructure. High-speed rail zig-zagging through the country, aging telecom and data lines replaced with fiber optics from end to end, roads as smooth as a baby's bottom, dilapidated housing projects from the 60's and 70's replaced with energy efficient buildings, etc.

Hell, a fraction of the military budget could have been used to feed the hungry and clothe the poor for years to come. How messed up are our priorities as a society?
You're right.

It's pretty messed up that we're the wealthiest country in the history of the world, and yet our domestic quality of life is well below other first world countries in a variety of areas. Health care, education, public transportation, energy infrastructure, environmental preservation, and the list goes on.

We used to tackle problems as a nation with a "why not?" attitude. Now, everyone's only concerned with their own self-preservation above the overall welfare of the nation.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
You're right.

It's pretty messed up that we're the wealthiest country in the history of the world, and yet our domestic quality of life is well below other first world countries in a variety of areas. Health care, education, public transportation, energy infrastructure, environmental preservation, and the list goes on.

We used to tackle problems as a nation with a "why not?" attitude. Now, everyone's only concerned with their own self-preservation above the overall welfare of the nation.

Teamwork? Last I checked America was built on individualism by individuals who never worked together or collaborated for the greater good
 

CHEEZMO™

Obsidian fan
You're right.

It's pretty messed up that we're the wealthiest country in the history of the world, and yet our domestic quality of life is well below other first world countries in a variety of areas. Health care, education, public transportation, energy infrastructure, environmental preservation, and the list goes on.

We used to tackle problems as a nation with a "why not?" attitude. Now, everyone's only concerned with their own self-preservation above the overall welfare of the nation.

B-b-b-but rugged individualism is the American way, so it can't be bettered!!
 

Chumly

Member
Imagine had the federal government spent the billions from the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq on infrastructure. High-speed rail zig-zagging through the country, aging telecom and data lines replaced with fiber optics from end to end, roads as smooth as a baby's bottom, dilapidated housing projects from the 60's and 70's replaced with energy efficient buildings, etc.

Hell, a fraction of the military budget could have been used to feed the hungry and clothe the poor for years to come. How messed up are our priorities as a society?
It's truly depressing to think about. People are more than willing to have ridiculous amounts of military waste yet the moment someone gets an extra hundred dollars of food stamps the world stops because someone is screwing over taxpayers.
 
Nobody cares about kin anymore. It's like we've evolved beyond basic survival skills for our species, and instead turned into a lone predator species, rather than the herding species we're suppose to be
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
CHEEZMO™;40435969 said:
B-b-b-but rugged individualism is the American way, so it can't be bettered!!

Damn straight! I've built every road I've ever walked on with my two hands! The subway I took to work this morning? Built that too, laid the track as the train was moving and I built the engine. How you ask? Just gotta pull yourself up by dem bootstraps. Build your own damn subway system if you wanna get around!
 

KingGondo

Banned
It's truly depressing to think about. People are more than willing to have ridiculous amounts of military waste yet the moment someone gets an extra hundred dollars of food stamps the world stops because someone is screwing over taxpayers.
Counterpoint: guns are cool and awesome, feeding poor people is boring.
 

GaimeGuy

Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
"But if we cut the military budget, our country will be invaded instantly and the poor will have nowhere to live! We can't do that!"

--Republican

It's hilarious because geographically the US is probably the best positioned country in the world for defense purposes. The only way you could improve upon it would be if you put mountains around the perimeter.
 

RDreamer

Member
Hmm.. there's a thread now on Romney's statement of Israeli culture being better. I really kind of think there should be one on his praise of the healthcare system in Israel. Think that'd be too much Romney for OT?
 

gcubed

Member
It's hilarious because geographically the US is probably the best positioned country in the world for defense purposes. The only way you could improve upon it would be if you put mountains around the perimeter.

exactly, we outspend everyone else combined for mostly offensive purposes.
 

pigeon

Banned
Wrong. That makes us Capitalist.

Unrestrained capitalism IS the Law of the Jungle. (The conceptual one, not the real one, since the wilderness is full of pack animals that do, actually, cooperate and take care of each other.) I would definitely argue that social Darwinism is a fundamentally capitalist philosophy.
 

Chichikov

Member
No only is Israel's healthcare universal, it's also severely underfunded, so he's off point twice.
And I can't imagine Netanyahu, who went through a difficult labor dispute with doctors last year, is overly happy to hear praise about how little his government invest in healthcare.
Especially as they just announced a new wave of cuts.

Health officials warn Netanyahu of budget cuts (from yesterday, dat timing).
Health officials, including Medical Association Chairman Leonid Edelman, claimed that the health system is missing NIS 9 billion in public funds. "These are not required to provide Israeli citizens with a grand health system but to provide the basic care stated in the State's laws."

The signatories further claimed that Israelis spend more on private health care than in any other country providing its citizens with national health insurance.

"We feel the pain of those patients who are forced to wait hours, days and months for vital medical care and feel the frustration of the doctors, nurses and other staffers who are unable to administer the medical care they have been trained to give."
 
The AJA is as follows:
The White House provided a fact sheet which summarizes the key provisions of the $447 billion bill.[15] Some of its elements include:
Cutting and suspending $245 billion worth of payroll taxes for qualifying employers and 160 million medium to low income employees.
Spending $62 billion for a Pathways Back to Work Program for expanding opportunities for low-income youth and adults.
$49 billion - Extending unemployment benefits for up to 6 million long-term beneficiaries.
$8 billion - Jobs tax credit for the long term unemployed.
$5 billion - Pathways back to work fund.[15]
Spending $50 billion on both new & pre-existing infrastructure projects.
Spending $35 billion in additional funding to protect the jobs of teachers, police officers, and firefighters
Spending $30 billion to modernize at least 35,000 public schools and community colleges.
Spending $15 billion on a program that would hire construction workers to help rehabilitate and refurbishing hundreds of thousands of foreclosed homes and businesses.
Creating the National Infrastructure Bank (capitalized with $10 billion), originally proposed in 2007, to help fund infrastructure via private and public capital.
Creating a nationwide, interoperable wireless network for public safety, while expanding accessibility to high-speed wireless services.
Creating additional regulations on businesses who discriminate against hiring those who are long-term unemployed.
Loosening regulations on small businesses that wish to raise capital, including through crowdfunding, while retaining investor protections.
In total the legislation includes $253 billion in tax credits (56.6%) and $194 billion in spending and extension of unemployment benefits (43.4%).[15]

So yes, only $35B is specifically earmarked as state and local level public sector jobs, but if you think any state can take on ~$1B (each state's share of the $50B) in infrastructure overhauls, over $0.5B in school and community college overhauls, and the various other infrastructure projects in the AJA without:
1. needing to expand their own regulatory workforce
and
2. freeing up resources already committed to those infrastructure projects and the like that can then be turned back to the already cut public services

Then you're being rather obtuse.

The fact that it's over half tax cuts is dumb, but the ~$200B that isn't is going to the right kinds of things.

$49 billion for extending unemployment benefits - This doesn't have a major impact on jobs. People who are unemployed, aren't going to be free spending. They will spend for the essentials. If you want to create a healthy spending environment, you need to give people jobs.

Payroll Tax Cuts - That's nice, but again, it's not new jobs, and it won't lead to new jobs. It also is primarily targeted at that sector that isn't the problem - private sector. The private sector will only hire when there is a need to hire. Otherwise, the only incentive for the owner is to pocket the profits.

The Pathways Back to Work program is a nice program. However, it's not going to help much with government hiring, which is the main problem, unless it is going to pay for a lot of people to go to college & then have the government send the funding necessary to the state and local governments to start hiring people again.

The $30 billion to modernize schools is peanuts. For example, creating a nice new modern high school in New Brunswick, NJ cost $180 million. (http://blog.nj.com/perspective/2011/03/wonders_and_blunders_some_stud.html) I believe the Obama plan is intended to cover improvements to thousands of schools. If creating one school can cost $180 million (admittedly high end), I'm not sure what type of modernization can be done with spreading the money across thousands of schools. Regardless, this doesn't solve the problem of creating permanent jobs for people.

The construction worker bit is temporary hiring. The problem is cuts to existing jobs.

Yes, you are right the AJA would require hiring more regulatory workers. Yet, I highly suspect the hiring needs would only be limited to the Pathways program.

However, I highly doubt the states will take the freed up money and convert it to keep government jobs afloat. You do remember which party is in power in most of these states.

You need to use the Spending Clause to create conditional spending. That conditional spending of course, is going to be entirely targeted to ensuring that state and local governments replace the jobs they let go. Right now the AJA isn't targeted to the problem. Obama has shown no interest in targeting to the problem.

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/11/americas-hidden-austerity-program/

As pointed out in that NYT article - government hiring should have added 1.4-1.9 million jobs if we were playing by the normal rules. Instead, it has had a significant amount of cuts.

If Obama could find a way to cover for that gap, then we'll be in good shape. Instead, we get tax cuts & credits.
 

War Peaceman

You're a big guy.
the problem isn't with the statement the Jews have been successful because of their culture. It's the comparison to the palestinians and complete ignorance of any history.

it's dog whistle politics for racists anti Muslim voters. That Muslims are by their very nature incapable of being successful by themselves. They need to west to teach them. See his comments about the bush's freedom agenda the other day.

I do agree with that, my point was more of a tangential thought stemming from what Romney said.


Imagine had the federal government spent the billions from the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq on infrastructure. High-speed rail zig-zagging through the country, aging telecom and data lines replaced with fiber optics from end to end, roads as smooth as a baby's bottom, dilapidated housing projects from the 60's and 70's replaced with energy efficient buildings, etc.

Hell, a fraction of the military budget could have been used to feed the hungry and clothe the poor for years to come. How messed up are our priorities as a society?

Absolutely. The same stands for us in Britain too. To think of the infrastructure we could and should have invested in...


Incidentally does anyone think there is much that could really change the outcome of the election? It seems to me that every story, every gaffe, every controversy has limited value. Romney's foreign trips have been horrible, but he was never going to win on foreign policy anyway. The lines appear to have been drawn in the sand.

Does everything now depend on the economy not completely paralysing?
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
It's hardly ever ONE big thing that will end something like this. It's more like death by a thousand paper cuts. None of it seems like all that much, but by the time you realize what's going on you are already dead.

The Obama camp is building up to a "Romney is incompetent" narrative, and you can't show someone is a dumb ass without them acting like a dumb ass on their own.

Though, it could be there is a silver bullet coming up in Romney's taxes or in his VP pick. I doubt it though.
 
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