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PoliGAF 2012 Community Thread |OT2| This thread title is now under military control
- Thread starter AlteredBeast
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SouthernDragon
Member
It's one of the reasons I'm leaving Miami. I'm planning on writing to the mayor, too; a lot of Miamians are ok with the situation because they've never been anywhere with decent transportation.
The fuck!?
I have no words anymore. None. The republican party has straight up shit its pants, proceeded to put their dirty underwear atop their head, and is currently prancing around yelling gibberish at the top of their lungs.
I have no words anymore. None. The republican party has straight up shit its pants, proceeded to put their dirty underwear atop their head, and is currently prancing around yelling gibberish at the top of their lungs.
el retorno
Member
I have seen limits on the future get struck down (in more affluent districts where they know the harm many of these proposals do). But the only increase I ever see are millages.
I hate statewide ballots. Because people also vote against them because they don´t see the benefits, they think it will get misspent in their state capital or washington.
I like direct democracy in local matters but the further it gets away the more a representative system works better.
this goddamn country.
Hobbestetrician
Member
People in Pennsylvania recently seem to like to compare things they don't like happening to them to tragic terrorist events where thousands of people actually died: http://deadspin.com/5928585/penn-st...ur-911-i-just-saw-planes-crashing-into-towers
el retorno
Member
This brings me to something I was thinking about while listening to NPR today. They were talking about the Indian blackout and corruption and how the middle classes and upper classes there have no incentive to commit to these public infrastructure projects. They have private guards, use private transport, drink bottled water, generate their own electricity, etc.
It just struck me how similar that is to the US. The 1% and even a large portion of the middle class is so reluctant to contribute to the country because they don´t use much of what the country would produce with these products (you can argue they do but they don´t see it that way). Rich folk are going to fight against many transportation projects because they use their private jets, private cars etc. They fight against public schools or at the very least don´t promote them because they don´t use them. Look at movies set in the 50s and all the public pools and baseball fields. Do those even exist anymore that aren´t a part of a subdivision which will kick out any poor minority who doesn´t live there. With the growth of suburbs public pools, libraries and other public goods have decayed because people don´t see their personal benefit from them. Their now seen as charity and not something for they themselves to use. They have a pool in their backyard why do they need to fund one for one that is just gonna be used by the poor black kids. And with the collapse of political machines and their replacement with corporate machines they can actually affect policy.
That I think is the biggest problem facing progressives and liberals is the lack of public goods and public projects that everybody used. There are big projects but theres always private money which takes out the public in them. Look at sports stadiums. The public contributes so much money to them but since there is a bit a private money they get handed over to private hands to reap all the rewords. Things like that highway in ATL and much of what the stimulus was spent on was since by many as just going to the poor folks that didn´t contribute to anything (FOX loves playing up this angle). They got nothing while their houses got foreclosed. There needs to be a better spread of money spent if only to get the government better PR (building things that maybe are not for a better economy but to spread the message that your money helps you too). That´s Warren´s message but its so tough to get through to people.
Robert Reich in his new book Beyond Outrage goes into this much better (At least I think it was in that book, its like 2 bucks on amazon but a pretty good read).
I don´t like much of EV´s actual policy solutions but one thing I think he understands really damn well is how politics in practice works. People need to demand things and organize for any of this to actually change. Its sad that when I talk to my dad he agrees with so much of this buy just doesn´t see it changing and just gives me the standard "its the way things are" whenever I bring up hypocracy in the republican talking points, he can´t even fake outrage anymore.... Maybe I´m still young (mid 20s) and naive.
yup. Legal immigration is too easy - I just filled out a form...
jamesinclair
Banned
Completely true, you have no idea how many stolen plasmas Id see on the subway every day.
A lot of cities will face a japan-style demographic problem soon as the youth flee to jobs in cities they WANT to live in, not a traffic-soaked hellhole.
Not everyone can leave....but those who can.....can you say brain-drain?
Its not like theres no precedent, right detroit?
jamesinclair
Banned
Very good points.
Its also amazingly inefficient.
Everyone having a pool is an enormous money sink.
Why does everyone need a basketball hoop in their driveway that gets used twice a year when a public one on every block would be cheaper and more useful?
Speaking of poor black kids and pools....
Thats a model i can believe in.
http://app.dpr.dc.gov/dprmap/details.asp?cid=3
Check out the amazing (completely free) aquatic centers found in multiple parts of DC
Not shown: The kids splash pool, gym and dance room
When I lived there, I was pretty much the only white guy using it. Every new apartment complex advertising their amazing (tiny) private pool, and of course they charge $2,000+ rents a month to use it. The white incomers love it.
Theyre really missing the fuck out.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
Yeah but I bet they don't want to swim with black people anyway.
SouthernDragon
Member
Miami is a perfect example of the insularity.
All the rich people live and work in specific areas, so they don't want to fund anything. Ever.
Everyone puts up with the bullshit because they don't know of anything better. Traffic is just what it is, right?
All the rich people live and work in specific areas, so they don't want to fund anything. Ever.
Everyone puts up with the bullshit because they don't know of anything better. Traffic is just what it is, right?
PhoenixDark
Banned
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
i can feel the passion of a million burning germans coursing through my veins right now
I visited a friend down there last summer and it feels so...isolated?...compared to NYC. Here if I want to go somewhere its easy, because god help you if you try and drive in Manhattan. When I was there, you needed a car. It just felt weird to drive in a city, and by weird I mean annoying.
el retorno
Member
There no doubt is a racial component to it. Or rather class which is obviously built on racial lines.
There´s a reason why welfare queen is such a popular term.
WTF at the german quote. Is that saying what I think its saying?
Flying_Phoenix
Banned
This is the crux of the entire issue with America. Why is America the world superpower but arguably has a lower quality of life for the average individual than Germany, France, or Japan? This is it. It isn't the 1950s anymore. Most Americans (white at least) aren't poor, they've "made it". They no longer need public pools. They don't need to use the library. Public transportation? What the fuck is that? And while there are things they use such as public schools, roads, police, those tax returns, etc. It isn't as obvious. But what demographics haven't "made it" for the most part? Pretty much all the others. Specifically blacks and hispanics.
Most white people can't really relate to these people. They have a different culture, come from different backgrounds, and most of all look different. Its hard to feel symphathetic to someone that you consider alien. Whats worse is that gang culture has infiltrated these communities thanks to the lack of financial, economic, and prohibition support. "Why do I want to have MY money go toward these people? They're ghetto, their kids are out of control as they kill people, you can't help people who don't want to help themselves." Hell even though welfare is seen as the epitomy of ghetto lazy 18 year old black mothers with 9 kids who are on it as long as possible, according to the census statistics the average person is white, in their thirties, and is on it for 1 to 2 years (this has been the case for twenty years now). People don't see these things as helping them they see it as helping others that they don't relate to and see as leaches. And while I realize that Kosmo isn't exaggerating THAT much when claims that 50% of welfare reciepents who show up to his drive thru seem to be abusers, this isn't the type of thing you solve by cutting taxes for rich people. This is actually solved the same way that you save the middle class. Investing in social justice, jobs, and the economy of middle and low income Americans. These people have been seemingly abadoned by American society. And as such they don't trust the system. The only way to fix this is to change their environment and this goes hand it hand as it will also strengthen the disadvantaged middle class.
Unfortunately it seems like we have a 1930s situation of "fuck you got mine". America was very similar today as it was in one hundred years ago. Huge wealth disparities, falling average classes, high crime with communities (poor country whites and immigrant city) that were basket cases, with everybody having a distate for each other. It took the financial apocalypse for people to get over their differences. Perhaps the middle class needs to be squeezed out more until they finally realize that "these projects don't just benefit THOSE people, but they also benefit ME!"
Aaron Strife
Banned
I think the white middle class also doesn't realize how screwed they really are.
For years they were sold the idea that everyone should earn a degree, everyone should own a car, everyone should own a house in the suburbs with a white picket fence and work a 9-5 office job every day, and that this was the American lifestyle and something we should aspire to.
Except we're now at a point where all people are doing is racking up thousands of dollars of debt by living outside of their means, buying lavish houses they can't afford, gas-guzzling cars, getting fucked over by student loans, and paying off credit cards with more credit cards. On top of that blowing money on TVs, video games, booze and cigarettes etc.
It infuriates me whenever I see a report go something like this: "Lower gas prices have spiked the sale of low-mileage SUVs." It's like, newsflash fuckwits, those low gas prices are going to spring back in six months. In 2008 gas was almost $2/gal and it was awesome, now we're high-fiving each other when it gets close to 3. There's a big section of the middle class that's not willing to give up on a lifestyle that only the privileged can truly afford.
I've sat down with my mom, a baby boomer, and told her I'd rather rent out an apartment than buy a house. My own personal experience is that we're half a million dollars in the hole on our house and have been teetering on the edge of bankruptcy for about five years now. But to her it's insanity to want anything else than home ownership, because it's a much better investment. I don't know, something about the best-case scenario being "live in this house for ten years, pay it off and then own it, only to move somewhere else after that ten years" isn't very appealing to me. I would much rather rent out a nice apartment in Minneapolis close enough to a well-paying job that I wouldn't have to walk or could take the bus.
For years they were sold the idea that everyone should earn a degree, everyone should own a car, everyone should own a house in the suburbs with a white picket fence and work a 9-5 office job every day, and that this was the American lifestyle and something we should aspire to.
Except we're now at a point where all people are doing is racking up thousands of dollars of debt by living outside of their means, buying lavish houses they can't afford, gas-guzzling cars, getting fucked over by student loans, and paying off credit cards with more credit cards. On top of that blowing money on TVs, video games, booze and cigarettes etc.
It infuriates me whenever I see a report go something like this: "Lower gas prices have spiked the sale of low-mileage SUVs." It's like, newsflash fuckwits, those low gas prices are going to spring back in six months. In 2008 gas was almost $2/gal and it was awesome, now we're high-fiving each other when it gets close to 3. There's a big section of the middle class that's not willing to give up on a lifestyle that only the privileged can truly afford.
I've sat down with my mom, a baby boomer, and told her I'd rather rent out an apartment than buy a house. My own personal experience is that we're half a million dollars in the hole on our house and have been teetering on the edge of bankruptcy for about five years now. But to her it's insanity to want anything else than home ownership, because it's a much better investment. I don't know, something about the best-case scenario being "live in this house for ten years, pay it off and then own it, only to move somewhere else after that ten years" isn't very appealing to me. I would much rather rent out a nice apartment in Minneapolis close enough to a well-paying job that I wouldn't have to walk or could take the bus.
empty vessel
Member
Hey, I blow money on booze and cigarettes etc.
SouthernDragon
Member
People have been suckered into thinking a home is an investment.
It's not. It's a liability. If you are pay money every month out of pocket, it's a liability. It'll only generate a return if you a) rent the house or b) sell the house at a gain.
With b), you now have no home. I don't think the idea of long-term ownership is to sell the house, but what do I know?
It's not. It's a liability. If you are pay money every month out of pocket, it's a liability. It'll only generate a return if you a) rent the house or b) sell the house at a gain.
With b), you now have no home. I don't think the idea of long-term ownership is to sell the house, but what do I know?
Aaron Strife
Banned
If you can budget for it, that's one thing. I don't think the majority of people do and they wonder why they're shit broke.
I totally buy frivolous crap I don't need.
Flying_Phoenix
Banned
We live in a very weird generation. We work more hours than ever before (pre FDRization) and get paid less than much of the past, but somehow claim that we are over-entitled and lazy when people ask for more. We complain about money but at the same time take out tons of debt and claim that "the job creators" need it more than we do.
I think George Carlin said it best when he stated that most Americans are distracted by gizmos and gadgets to give a fuck about their necessities. Its like those calculations I made, you can give the bottom third of all Americans an extra $8,000 if you took half of the "one percents" money. And imagine what you could do with that if you invested it into infrastructure, research programs, health care, welfare, job programs, etc. And thats just INCOME, I don't even think things like capital gains are included in that. I wouldn't be surprised if it doubled after that. We went from most 22 year olds being able to live in their own apartment while having a job that pays a bit more than minimum wage (1970s) to living in your parents house after graduating college. I think that says it all.
Also yeah fuck buying a house. All it takes to destory your invesment is the economy hitting bumps or a white flight.
I think George Carlin said it best when he stated that most Americans are distracted by gizmos and gadgets to give a fuck about their necessities. Its like those calculations I made, you can give the bottom third of all Americans an extra $8,000 if you took half of the "one percents" money. And imagine what you could do with that if you invested it into infrastructure, research programs, health care, welfare, job programs, etc. And thats just INCOME, I don't even think things like capital gains are included in that. I wouldn't be surprised if it doubled after that. We went from most 22 year olds being able to live in their own apartment while having a job that pays a bit more than minimum wage (1970s) to living in your parents house after graduating college. I think that says it all.
Also yeah fuck buying a house. All it takes to destory your invesment is the economy hitting bumps or a white flight.
jamesinclair
Banned
To the extent that it's an investment, the payoff comes when the loan is A) paid off and B) you continue to live in it. Your cost of living drops through the floor without a mortgage payment. At least, that's my perspective, and why we're paying the loan down quickly.
Black Mamba
Member
The idea is basically that. You buy a house you can afford, pay it down, then live the final 20-40 years of your life with only maintenance + tax costs. And when you're dead, you leave it to your kids who will have a sudden boost in worth.
The problem became when
A. people were buying when it economically was silly to do so (helped along by the government)
B. people stopped living in a single home for very long and thought they could always just sell it whenever (and did).
I always tell people, buying a home is an investment if and only if you plan on living there a very long time. If not, be wary.
So often you see people compare mortgage payments straight up to rent cost, but ignore the other costs of owning (taxes, maintenance, opportunity costs, etc).
Historically, housing has only kept up with inflation. It's merely a store of current wealth. And you can't have big eyes. Paying a $1 mil loan over 30 years when you make $80k a year isn't necessarily a good thing, but it became so common.
Yup, sound advice. I take a very long term perspective on things, so that was my view when we took out the mortgage. It is one of the reasons I don't sweat the housing prices plunging and bottoming out; they only matter if you're selling.
It is unfortunate that so many play with mortgages as a short term game. They get screwed as often as not, and it hurts the entire industry.
Aaron Strife
Banned
Speaking of home ownership, 538 has Obama at 70.8% favorite to win the election, probably on the back of the Quinnipac polls. Of note:
Nate Silver said:
It looks like there was a notable pull away near the end of June, which Mitt hasn't been able to reverse. It could be we're about to see another phase of it; it may be a blip but this has been a killer couple weeks for Romney.
Aaron Strife
Banned
If Friday's jobs report is decent, it'll be a tough month for Mittens until whatever bounce he gets from the RNC, which will be canceled out by the DNC a week later anyway.
PhoenixDark
Banned
100k+ would be welcome but I doubt it. Good economic indicators seem to ensure shitty job numbers, perhaps we need some bad economic indicators...
Romney hasn't had a good month, but he remains in striking distance and the VP choice is coming up
Officerrob
Banned
Yeah, but I don't think Portman or Pawlenty will do much for him. Unless he does a surprise pick (highly unlikely) I would expect the VP bounce to rebound very quickly.
If you were to read conservative blogs, posts, and other media, you'd think it was Romney who is the 70.8% favorite. Everywhere I read, conservatives are so damn cock sure Obama's going to lose. I'm curious (and a bit scared) of what their reaction will be the moment words comes that Obama hit 270 EVs on election night.
Black Mamba
Member
Glenn Hubbard, aka Romney's economic advisor go to guy aka Bush's economic advisor go to guy, released an op ed in the WSJ.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390443687504577562842656362660.html
Some highlights:
A. partly false. That study did not put a lot of regulatory schemes. Taxes, fiscal policy, spending, and sovereign debt ¤cy were bigger drivers. In fact, regulation represented only 10% of the increase according to the study.
B. Yes, tax uncertainty is a problem. But note uncertainty doesn't care which way you land. Just as well, certainty about higher tax rates would do just as much as lower ones. And who should be to blame for the debate about extending the SS tax cuts? hmm..
Yeah, and somehow lowering taxes didn't do the opposite in 2000 and this is left unexplained. My guess is the study used old assumptions now proven wrong. Why would they do that?
"Prepared on behalf of the Independent Community Bankers of America, the National Federation of Independent Business, the S Corporation Association, and the United States Chamber of Commerce"
Oh. I see...
I'm sure it was unbiased. Let's see.
Robert Carroll? Oh, former head tax economist for the treasury under W Bush....
And here he openly admits that Romney will raise taxes on everyone but the upper class.
He will cut marginal rates by 20%, so everyone has lower marginal rates. But wait, he will keep it both revenue neutral and broaden the tax base. That means he is cutting down the EITC, child tax credits, and other credits and deductions that save the middle class (and lower classes) from immense tax burdens.
There is no way around this. Since nothing in the tax code affects high income earners other than the marginal tax rates and capital gains rate other than mortgage deductions, there is nothing left to make it revenue neutral without being a tax hike on everyone else.
I only wish the media would pick up this. Like I always have said, I don't like Obama or democrats, but at least they're not running on a platform to subsidize tax cuts for the wealthy by increases taxes for everyone else when everyone else is struggling. This is not like it was in 2000.
Romney is running on Bush's tax platform, only without the actual middle class cuts part of it. And this asshole will get 47%+ of the vote.
edit: Seriously, the part that kills me is Romney would have no chance if actual voters understood his plan is to raise their taxes so the wealthy get less taxes. He says it, but it's cannot be understood by the majority of people cuz they don't understand the concepts.
This is where the media is supposed to do their job. If they did, ever major outlet (besides Fox of course) would be running on about how Romney's plan is to raise their taxes. Over and over again. Until it sinks in or Romney changes his plan. The election wouldn't be in discussion at all. Argh. Also, fuck Romney for making me defend Obama.
edit x 2: And if Obama were to bring it up in debates, talking about it, everyone would say he sounds like an elitist egghead. Too smart and "know-it-all" to be re-elected.
Okay, I'm going to bed.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390443687504577562842656362660.html
Some highlights:
A. partly false. That study did not put a lot of regulatory schemes. Taxes, fiscal policy, spending, and sovereign debt ¤cy were bigger drivers. In fact, regulation represented only 10% of the increase according to the study.
B. Yes, tax uncertainty is a problem. But note uncertainty doesn't care which way you land. Just as well, certainty about higher tax rates would do just as much as lower ones. And who should be to blame for the debate about extending the SS tax cuts? hmm..
Yeah, and somehow lowering taxes didn't do the opposite in 2000 and this is left unexplained. My guess is the study used old assumptions now proven wrong. Why would they do that?
"Prepared on behalf of the Independent Community Bankers of America, the National Federation of Independent Business, the S Corporation Association, and the United States Chamber of Commerce"
Oh. I see...
I'm sure it was unbiased. Let's see.
Robert Carroll? Oh, former head tax economist for the treasury under W Bush....
And here he openly admits that Romney will raise taxes on everyone but the upper class.
He will cut marginal rates by 20%, so everyone has lower marginal rates. But wait, he will keep it both revenue neutral and broaden the tax base. That means he is cutting down the EITC, child tax credits, and other credits and deductions that save the middle class (and lower classes) from immense tax burdens.
There is no way around this. Since nothing in the tax code affects high income earners other than the marginal tax rates and capital gains rate other than mortgage deductions, there is nothing left to make it revenue neutral without being a tax hike on everyone else.
I only wish the media would pick up this. Like I always have said, I don't like Obama or democrats, but at least they're not running on a platform to subsidize tax cuts for the wealthy by increases taxes for everyone else when everyone else is struggling. This is not like it was in 2000.
Romney is running on Bush's tax platform, only without the actual middle class cuts part of it. And this asshole will get 47%+ of the vote.
edit: Seriously, the part that kills me is Romney would have no chance if actual voters understood his plan is to raise their taxes so the wealthy get less taxes. He says it, but it's cannot be understood by the majority of people cuz they don't understand the concepts.
This is where the media is supposed to do their job. If they did, ever major outlet (besides Fox of course) would be running on about how Romney's plan is to raise their taxes. Over and over again. Until it sinks in or Romney changes his plan. The election wouldn't be in discussion at all. Argh. Also, fuck Romney for making me defend Obama.
edit x 2: And if Obama were to bring it up in debates, talking about it, everyone would say he sounds like an elitist egghead. Too smart and "know-it-all" to be re-elected.
Okay, I'm going to bed.
It went from this:
to this:
So yeah, has to be Quinnipac just going by Florida. Ohio's also a little more solid (up to 70% from 67%). Nothing to worry about in Oregon and Minnesota, they just went from 90% to 89%.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_..._s_new_voter_id_law_would_actually_work_.html
How Not To Defend Voter ID
Reading these PA officials attempts to defend that odious voter ID law would be hilarious if it wasn't so serious.
How Not To Defend Voter ID
Reading these PA officials attempts to defend that odious voter ID law would be hilarious if it wasn't so serious.
Four_Chamber
Member
Is this what people in Tennessee really care about? I guess this is reason #5000 why I don't want to live in that state. There's a part of me that would really want to run for Congress just to run as a counter to these ridiculous people. I guess when you don't have a real platform to run on you just make up shit to get the electorate excited.
http://news.yahoo.com/tennessee-candidates-engage-anti-islam-contest-014242109.html
http://news.yahoo.com/tennessee-candidates-engage-anti-islam-contest-014242109.html
Has this been posted?
http://readingisforsnobs.blogspot.com/2012/08/romneys-fail-parade-continues-praises.html
Romney and his staff really suck at research.
http://readingisforsnobs.blogspot.com/2012/08/romneys-fail-parade-continues-praises.html
Romney and his staff really suck at research.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
Oh Fox
This is from a few pages back but I made something and wanted to share.
Why bother building things up when Sherman's just going to show up at the next party and trash everything?
"He pays less, you pay more."
Goddamn, why the hell was it so hard to get this shit across?
lol, I like the shot of Romney and Trump's jet there.
Can't see many winning scenario's for Romney if he doesn't take Ohio. There's a reason the win% for Ohio closely resembles the win% overall on 538 (although usually the overall % is a few points better for Obama because he can win without it).
Four_Chamber
Member
I'm with you- now that Obama is shifting into economic populism mode, I think his message is going to resonate even more with Ohio voters. Just need to shore up the GOTV effort on the ground level and he'll be in good shape. Ultimately, I would love a decisive electoral win just to dishearten the right-wing even more.
Yep. Obama has a few realistic paths to 270 without Ohio. Romney has none.
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