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[Aaron Strife]

My parents are hardcore Obama stans, it's kind of annoying. I haven't been able to deflate their balloon on anything.

Yeah if only we had more Hillaryis44 shills.

 

[GaimeGuy]

Yeah, in my case my parents have fairly liberal friends but the friction comes from our extended family. My mother has watched with a kind of slow horror as my maternal grandparents (grandmother in particular) have slid into "Obama is a socialist communist demon" mode

Tell your grandparents that the only reason they're able to enjoy their retirement is because people like you and me fund their social security and medicare benefits, and if they hate socialism so much, they should move to a country that leaves the people to fend for themselves.

If there's anything that ticks me off, it's senior citizens complaining about socialism.

 

[LosDaddie]

As this campaign heats up I'm increasingly grateful that my parents and I share similar political views. I would not want to be in the position I hear some GAFers talking about

I don't mind that my parents & I have differing political views. That's life. I mind that they take chain emails and Fox News as the gospel. Same goes for my in-laws, but they are somehow even worse.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

Welp

Mitt Romney’s campaign is giving conservatives quite a scare this week by touting Romney’s Massachusetts health care overhaul — a subject Romney has gone to great lengths to avoid.

Romney spokeswoman Andrea Saul brought up the law in response to a Priorities USA ad in which a steelworker, who lost his job after Bain Capital closed the GST Steel mill where he worked, connects his unemployment — and resulting lack of health insurance — to the death of his wife.

Team Romney’s response: He should have lived in Massachusetts.

On two Fox News appearances Tuesday night and Wednesday morning, Saul countered that if the steelworker, Joe Soptic, and his wife had lived in Massachusetts, they would have kept their insurance under Romney’s health care reform law.

“To that point, if people had been in Massachusetts, under Gov. Romney’s health care plan, they would have had health care,” Saul said Tuesday.

The campaign has shied from reminding voters of Romney’s landmark achievement as governor because it so closely resembles “Obamacare” — and was in fact a model for the national law. Romney has said repeatedly that he does not wish to force his plan onto other states. Romney has justified the law to conservatives by insisting that it worked for his state, but he wouldn’t ask other states to follow his lead.

Still, Saul contends that Romney’s plan — which he does not intend to make federal law — would have protected Soptic’s wife. Her comments raise the question of whether Romney is opposing a law that he actually believes saves lives.

Saul made the same argument again Wednesday.

“Obviously it is unfortunate when anyone loses their job,” Saul said Wednesday morning on Fox News. “To that point, you know, if people had been in Massachusetts under Gov. Romney’s health care plan they would’ve had health care. There a lot of people losing their jobs and losing their health care in President Obama’s economy, and that is why Gov. Romney is running: to get people back to work.”

Conservatives quickly dubbed Saul’s rebuttal a serious misstep by the campaign.

RedState’s Erick Erickson tweeted it could cost Romney the election:

@EWErickson

OMG. This might just be the moment Mitt Romney lost the election. Wow. politico.com/news/stories/0…
8 Aug 12

Another RedState editor, Dan McLaughlin, wrote that the Romney campaign needed the criticism in order to learn the lesson of what not to do.

Dan McLaughlin @baseballcrank

What conservatives are doing re Andrea Saul's comment is the same as how you housebreak your dog. Romney needs to know not to go there.
8 Aug 12

Conservative blogger Phil Klein, who’s been critical of Romney’s health care law, also thinks the comments were a grave mistake.

Philip Klein @philipaklein

Not sure if the Romney camp realizes what a huge opening they've just created for Ds on Obamacare politi.co/OOBJZ6
8 Aug 12

Romney himself came closer than he has in months to mentioning his own plan Wednesday morning. On the trail in Iowa, Romney argued that his experience made him better-equipped to improve health care in America. Romney promised to repeal “Obamacare,” and added: “We’ve got to do reforms in health care and I have some experience doing that, as you know. And I know how to make a better setting than the one we have in health care.”

 

[The Technomancer]

Tell your grandparents that the only reason they're able to enjoy their retirement is because people like you and me fund their social security and medicare benefits, and if they hate socialism so much, they should move to a country that leaves the people to fend for themselves.

If there's anything that ticks me off, it's senior citizens complaining about socialism.

Part of the problem is that they aren't retired...both of them are over 70 years old and they both still work because they enjoy what they do and they like the continued income (Harpist and Band Teacher)

 

[gcubed]

lol, Romney saying we need to repeal Obamacare so i can fix it by implementing Obamacare.

 

[RDreamer]

My dad's always been the loudest, most opinionated conservative possible. He's always bitched at the republican party for being "too pussy," etc. He loves guys like Rick Santorum. My parents favorite politician now is probably Sarah Palin.

So really I'm not grappling with any changes on that side. I am grappling with my own changes since this is the first election where I really feel I know almost all the issues well enough to go toe to toe with him on it, and yet I disagree with nearly everything he says.

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

As this campaign heats up I'm increasingly grateful that my parents and I share similar political views. I would not want to be in the position I hear some GAFers talking about

Laughing at Republicans is one of the things that I share with my Dad that we look forward to when we get the chance to spend time together. It's our fishing, or working on cars.

 

[thezerofire]

As this campaign heats up I'm increasingly grateful that my parents and I share similar political views. I would not want to be in the position I hear some GAFers talking about

I have to leave the room whenever my dad brings up politics. It's becoming difficult with some of my friends too. I've literally heard this: "Well we're rich so of course we're voting Republican"

 

[gcubed]

I have to leave the room whenever my dad brings up politics. It's becoming difficult with some of my friends too. I've literally heard this: "Well we're rich so of course we're voting Republican"

My wife is taking a new job later this year with a large raise, so I jokingly tell her we need to vote for Romney to piss her off.

 

[RDreamer]

lol, Romney saying we need to repeal Obamacare so i can fix it by implementing Romneycare.

Fixed that there for ya.

You see, the problem with Obamacare isn't what it does or who it helps. The problem is that it has Obama's name on it. Now Romneycare, that's a health plan republicans should get behind. Sounds American, unlike that other foreign sounding name.

 

[PantherLotus]

I like how we re-discover just how boxed in Romney is every single week. It's like he's in a 3-foot cubicle with electric-fenced walls. One one side, there's his experience as Governor and his inability to talk about the only thing he did, on the other side there's his experience at Bain and his inability to talk about outsourcing/job-slashing, and on the other two sides there's his Olympic experience which he just pissed away in London and his personal story which he can't talk about because he's a billionaire mormon with absolutely zero charisma.

On the bottom of this electric-fenced cage? An SUV traveling 70MPH, still emblazoned with bumper stickers of years past -- [McCain/Palin 2008] [Miss Me Yet? -GWB] and a faded American Eagle, crying.

 

[Plinko]

As this campaign heats up I'm increasingly grateful that my parents and I share similar political views. I would not want to be in the position I hear some GAFers talking about

I'm more of a moderate but my parents are hardcore liberals (i.e, watch Maddow every night, etc). I like to think I keep them grounded a bit.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

I like how we re-discover just how boxed in Romney is every single week. It's like he's in a 3-foot cubicle with electric-fenced walls. One one side, there's his experience as Governor and his inability to talk about the only thing he did, on the other side there's his experience at Bain and his inability to talk about outsourcing/job-slashing, and on the other two sides there's his Olympic experience which he just pissed away in London and his personal story which he can't talk about because he's a billionaire mormon with absolutely zero charisma.

On the bottom of this electric-fenced cage? An SUV traveling 70MPH, still emblazoned with bumper stickers of years past -- [McCain/Palin 2008] [Miss Me Yet? -GWB] and a faded American Eagle, crying.

My god this is a fantastic post. The imagery is simply delicious.

 

[Black Mamba]

This is amazing.

Romney campaign blunder #2451:

"This man lost his healthcare after I fired him. He would have continued to have healthcare if he lived in my state which has a state-wide health plan to keep everyone insured. Therefore, vote for me and I will make sure to overturn Obama's nation-wide health plan to keep everyone insured."

 

[worldrunover]

I have to leave the room whenever my dad brings up politics. It's becoming difficult with some of my friends too. I've literally heard this: "Well we're rich so of course we're voting Republican"

Rich people should vote Republican, it benefits them greatly.

 

[PantherLotus]

My god this is a fantastic post. The imagery is simply delicious.

Zzzt! ZAP!

 

[thezerofire]

Rich people should vote Republican, it benefits them greatly.

These are also people who profess to be Christian and to care about the poor

oh and they aren't rich

 

[Aaron Strife]

Rich people should vote Republican, it benefits them greatly.

Only if all poor people start voting Democratic.

GOP wouldn't even win Wyoming.

 

[codhand]

"While 40 percent of voters now say they hold a favorable opinion of the former Massachusetts governor–virtually unchanged from May–those holding negative views of Romney ticked higher in the new poll, from 45 percent to 49 percent.

Meanwhile, President Obama remained in positive territory on that measure, with 53 percent of voters reporting they hold favorable opinions of the incumbent. Only 43 percent say they feel unfavorably towards him.

Polls have generally shown a tight contest despite Obama’s consistent edge on the question of personal popularity."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...9b8c612-e0fa-11e1-a421-8bf0f0e5aa11_blog.html

 

[DynamicG]

My parents are hardcore Obama stans, it's kind of annoying. I haven't been able to deflate their balloon on anything.

If you are using the same arguments that you use here then I am not surprised. It'd be like trying to deflate a balloon by using a silly straw to shoot cotton balls at it.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

"While 40 percent of voters now say they hold a favorable opinion of the former Massachusetts governor–virtually unchanged from May–those holding negative views of Romney ticked higher in the new poll, from 45 percent to 49 percent.

Meanwhile, President Obama remained in positive territory on that measure, with 53 percent of voters reporting they hold favorable opinions of the incumbent. Only 43 percent say they feel unfavorably towards him.

Polls have generally shown a tight contest despite Obama’s consistent edge on the question of personal popularity."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...9b8c612-e0fa-11e1-a421-8bf0f0e5aa11_blog.html

But PD told me...

If you are using the same arguments that you use here then I am not surprised. It'd be like trying to deflate a balloon by using a silly straw to shoot cotton balls at it.

Damn... lol

 

[Wilsongt]

If you are using the same arguments that you use here then I am not surprised. It'd be like trying to deflate a balloon by using a silly straw to shoot cotton balls at it.

Sick burn, junior.

 

[NathanMcMahon]

If you are using the same arguments that you use here then I am not surprised. It'd be like trying to deflate a balloon by using a silly straw to shoot cotton balls at it.

well fucking done

 

[CHEEZMO™]

If you are using the same arguments that you use here then I am not surprised. It'd be like trying to deflate a balloon by using a silly straw to shoot cotton balls at it.

 

[codhand]

Dynamic burn, with delicious imagery.

 

[speculawyer]

Rich people should vote Republican, it benefits them greatly.

But in the big picture, I don't believe that is true. Yes, in the short term they get a bigger tax cut. But in the long-term, the middle-class decays, no purchasing power = no growth, deficits grow, etc. In the long-term they can end up much worse off.


And if we end up with a very large under-class, there could eventually be a huge-whip-saw swing in politics for farther left politics. Those revolutions in the Arab Spring . . . they were not started because people got politically annoyed with their leaders . . . they started because people finally got too mad at rising prices, no jobs, and crony upper elite. If people are pushed to far, they hit a breaking point. I don't foresee such a revolution here because we already have a democratic system . . . but people may get squeezed too far. I think we are already somewhat seeing that right now except that it is causing the polarization. There are populist movements on both sides right now. But one side or the other may win the populist argument.

 

[reilo]

If you are using the same arguments that you use here then I am not surprised. It'd be like trying to deflate a balloon by using a silly straw to shoot cotton balls at it.

haha

 

[AndyD]

I'd rather something be done to have those small percentage of the people not get the funds and those who do need it get the funds, it lowers overall costs, and makes more money available for deserving recipients.

...

That's the problem that seems hard to honestly gauge as both ends of the spectrum have a vested interested in it tilting one way. I guess one possible]/i] way to look and see what needs the most work is the break down the forms of public assistance and see where the most fraud occurs (possibly by prosecutions and revoking of benefits, but I'm sure other factors would work too) and how. Then you can ensure fraudulent use is being more efficiently combated, which benefits everyone.

But in the end there are people who do leech/freeload and giving them as pass is a problem, it hurts those who need the funds and the overall amount of people who can be enrolled in public programs and the amount people can receive, don't you agree?

I work with this and I can tell you a good chunk of the enforcement is done by administrative government employees, the rest by district attorneys who are government employees. And federal rules don't always require recovery/prosecution, they leave it up to the states on how to do it, if at all. Plus there are some loose builtin margins of accepted loss, similar to say retail builtin margins for theft.

So people can't be both against "big" government and pro cutting taxes and also demand enforcement. Because its government employees who have to do the enforcement, and I don't mean cops and judges who can make headlines, but low paid administrators, accountants, investigators and so forth for whom no one weeps when you talk about cutting government spending. At the same time you can't make a huge infrastructure to administer and oversee, because then people will complain the costs to administer would be best used helping those in need. This is reminiscent of the healthcare law's limits on insurance administrative cost percentage limits.

Studies on other public assistance programs have shown that the cost of creating and maintaining a compliance program would outweigh the financial benefit from preventing cheating. Of course, man other public assistance programs are more limited than others, but at the very least I think this suggests that compliance arguments on a financial basis are by no means a slam dunk, but rather would require some significant study to justify.

The cost analyses we have done and seen indicate its much more expensive to pursue fraud much beyond what is done now vs. what would be saved/recovered. For one the people who abuse benefits do so because they don't have anything or have little else. For another, Medicare fraud is mostly not done by individual recipients but corporations (hospitals, MCOs and so forth). Its an issue of diminishing returns and the costs become prohibitive and exhorbitant to prevent that last small sliver of fraud and abuse by individual recipients.

 

[codhand]

But in the big picture, I don't believe that is true. Yes, in the short term they get a bigger tax cut. But in the long-term, the middle-class decays, no purchasing power = no growth, deficits grow, etc. In the long-term they can end up much worse off.


And if we end up with a very large under-class, there could eventually be a huge-whip-saw swing in politics for farther left politics. Those revolutions in the Arab Spring . . . they were not started because people got politically annoyed with their leaders . . . they started because people finally got too mad at rising prices, no jobs, and crony upper elite. If people are pushed to far, they hit a breaking point. I don't foresee such a revolution here because we already have a democratic system . . . but people may get squeezed too far. I think we are already somewhat seeing that right now except that it is causing the polarization. There are populist movements on both sides right now. But one side or the other may win the populist argument.

This assumes they give a shit about anyone other themselves and the current day of the week.

 

[el retorno]

I think I'm hopping on the "Romney doesn't want to win this" train. Its unbelievable how poorly run this campaign is. They've not been leading on ANYTHING for at least a month.

Is he serious with that Romneycare comment?

 

[codhand]

I think I'm hopping on the "Romney doesn't want to win this" train. Its unbelievable how poorly run this campaign is. They've not been leading on ANYTHING for at least a month.

Is he serious with that Romneycare comment?

I mean, who would want to work for the Romney Campaign? I'm sure it's not exactly the best and brightest.

 

[PhoenixDark]

If you are using the same arguments that you use here then I am not surprised. It'd be like trying to deflate a balloon by using a silly straw to shoot cotton balls at it.

Not bad junior, I'm not gonna front.

 

[Aaron Strife]

If you are using the same arguments that you use here then I am not surprised. It'd be like trying to deflate a balloon by using a silly straw to shoot cotton balls at it.

 

[PhoenixDark]

I have so many posts saved, ready for 11pm on November 6th

 

[Aaron Strife]

I have so many posts saved, ready for 11pm on November 6th

You really think it'll take until 11 for the race to be called? Try 9

 

[Plinko]

The thing that really worries me about Romney winning is that he appears to have no ability to surround himself with smart people. His campaign is a disaster so far.

 

[PhoenixDark]

You really think it'll take until 11 for the race to be called? Try 9

West coast won't come in until past what, 10-10:30pm? Meanwhile Ohio and Florida will probably still be counting

 

[gcubed]

West coast won't come in until past what, 10-10:30pm? Meanwhile Ohio and Florida will probably still be counting

West Coast can be called before polls close... basically if Ohio stays as it is, it will be over as soon as its called

 

[NathanMcMahon]

I have so many posts saved, ready for 11pm on November 6th

when you look really pathetic after Obama has won it, will you post them anyway? just so we can laugh at you some more?

 

[Krauser Kat]

If you are using the same arguments that you use here then I am not surprised. It'd be like trying to deflate a balloon by using a silly straw to shoot cotton balls at it.

You are going to fit in nicely here.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

I have so many posts saved, ready for 11pm on November 6th

I am sure if Obama wins you will say that Hillary would have won bigger.
I am sure if Obama wins you will say 'I didn't say Obama WOULDN'T win'.
I am sure if Obama wins you will say 'Obama shouldn't have won'.
I am sure if Obama wins you will say 'Romney lost this election, Obama didn't win it'.

So yea...

 

[BotoxAgent]

If you are using the same arguments that you use here then I am not surprised. It'd be like trying to deflate a balloon by using a silly straw to shoot cotton balls at it.

delicious

 

[Baraka in the White House]

Decision 2012: No matter who loses, PD wins

 

[GhaleonEB]

Welp

Reminds me of this article.

Mitt Romney Haunted By Past Of Trying To Help Uninsured Sick People

Though Mitt Romney is considered to be a frontrunner for the 2012 Republican presidential nomination, the national spotlight has forced him to repeatedly confront a major skeleton in his political closet: that as governor of Massachusetts he once tried to help poor, uninsured sick people.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

Decision 2012: No matter who loses, PD wins

Pretty much.

Reminds me of this article.

lol so good.

 

[Tim-E]

Welp

I.....that....uuuuuh

I literally have nothing to say in response to this. I absolutely cannot believe that this campaign would do that.

 

[Opiate]

But in the big picture, I don't believe that is true. Yes, in the short term they get a bigger tax cut. But in the long-term, the middle-class decays, no purchasing power = no growth, deficits grow, etc. In the long-term they can end up much worse off.


And if we end up with a very large under-class, there could eventually be a huge-whip-saw swing in politics for farther left politics. Those revolutions in the Arab Spring . . . they were not started because people got politically annoyed with their leaders . . . they started because people finally got too mad at rising prices, no jobs, and crony upper elite. If people are pushed to far, they hit a breaking point. I don't foresee such a revolution here because we already have a democratic system . . . but people may get squeezed too far. I think we are already somewhat seeing that right now except that it is causing the polarization. There are populist movements on both sides right now. But one side or the other may win the populist argument.

I think what we've been learning, spec, is that people care about their relative interests far more than their absolute ones. This is why many (correctly) point out that the populace is not satisfied that they are wealthier in the absolute sense than were very wealthy people in 1850; people do not compare themselves to their great, great, great grandparents, they compare themselves to their immediate peers.

In other words, while everyone may do better in the long run with liberal policies (one could argue that this isn't true, but for the moment let's say it is), it doesn't feel as wealthy when all the other boats are rising with you as it does when you rise alone, towering above those beneath you.

Or, put even more simply, you feel taller being 10 feet tall when everyone else is 5 feet tall than you do when you are 11 feet tall and everyone else is 9 feet.

 

[NathanMcMahon]

I.....that....uuuuuh

I literally have nothing to say in response to this. I absolutely cannot believe that this campaign would do that.

gotta keep throwing that feces at that wall...

 

[Tim-E]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...ds-bain_n_1710133.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular

Mitt Romney Started Bain Capital With Money From Families Tied To Death Squads

In 1983, Bill Bain asked Mitt Romney to launch Bain Capital, a private equity offshoot of the successful consulting firm Bain & Company. After some initial reluctance, Romney agreed. The new job came with a stipulation: Romney couldn't raise money from any current clients, Bain said, because if the private equity venture failed, he didn't want it taking the consulting firm down with it.

When Romney struggled to raise funds from other traditional sources, he and his partners started thinking outside the box. Bain executive Harry Strachan suggested that Romney meet with a group of Central American oligarchs who were looking for new investment vehicles as turmoil engulfed their region.

Romney was worried that the oligarchs might be tied to "illegal drug money, right-wing death squads, or left-wing terrorism," Strachan later told a Boston Globe reporter, as quoted in the 2012 book "The Real Romney." But, pressed for capital, Romney pushed his concerns aside and flew to Miami in mid-1984 to meet with the Salvadorans at a local bank.

It was a lucrative trip. The Central Americans provided roughly $9 million -- 40 percent -- of Bain Capital's initial outside funding, the Los Angeles Times reported recently. And they became valued clients.

"Over the years, these Latin American friends have loyally rolled over investments in succeeding funds, actively participated in Bain Capital's May investor meetings, and are still today one of the largest investor groups in Bain Capital," Strachan wrote in his memoir in 2008. Strachan declined to be interviewed for this story.

When Romney launched another venture that needed funding -- his first presidential campaign -- he returned to Miami.

"I owe a great deal to Americans of Latin American descent," he said at a dinner in Miami in 2007. "When I was starting my business, I came to Miami to find partners that would believe in me and that would finance my enterprise. My partners were Ricardo Poma, Miguel Dueñas, Pancho Soler, Frank Kardonski, and Diego Ribadeneira."


Romney could also have thanked investors from two other wealthy and powerful Central American clans -- the de Sola and Salaverria families, who the Los Angeles Times and Boston Globe have reported were founding investors in Bain Capital.

While they were on the lookout for investments in the United States, members of some of these prominent families -- including the Salaverria, Poma, de Sola and Dueñas clans -- were also at the time financing, either directly or through political parties, death squads in El Salvador. The ruling classes were deploying the death squads to beat back left-wing guerrillas and reformers during El Salvador's civil war.

The death squads committed atrocities on such a mass scale for so small a country that their killing spree sparked international condemnation. From 1979 to 1992, some 75,000 people were killed in the Salvadoran civil war, according to the United Nations. In 1982, two years before Romney began raising money from the oligarchs, El Salvador's independent Human Rights Commission reported that, of the 35,000 civilians killed, "most" died at the hands of death squads. A United Nations truth commission concluded in 1993 that 85 percent of the acts of violence were perpetrated by the right, while the left-wing Farabundo Martí National Liberation Front, which was supported by the Cuban government, was responsible for 5 percent.

When The Huffington Post asked the Romney campaign about Bain Capital accepting funds from families tied to death squads, a spokeswoman forwarded a 1999 Salt Lake Tribune article to explain the campaign's position on the matter. She declined to comment further.

"Romney confirms Bain had investors in El Salvador. But, as was Bain's policy with any big investor, they had the families checked out as diligently as possible," the Tribune wrote. "They uncovered no unsavory links to drugs or other criminal activity."

Nobody with a basic understanding of the region's history could believe that assertion.

By 1984, the media had thoroughly exposed connections between the death squads and the Salvadoran oligarchy, including the families that invested with Romney. The sitting U.S. ambassador to El Salvador charged that several families, including at least one that invested with Bain, were living in Miami and directly funding death squads. Even by 1981, El Salvador's elite, largely relocated to Miami, were so angered by the public perception that they were financing death squads that they reached out to the media to make their case. The two men put forward to represent the oligarchs were both from families that would invest in Bain three years later. The most cursory review of their backgrounds would have turned up the ties.

The connection between the families involved with Bain's founding and those who financed death squads was made by the Boston Globe in 1994 and the Salt Lake Tribune in 1999. This election cycle, Salon first raised the issue in January, and the Los Angeles Times filled out more of the record earlier this month.

There is no shortage of unsavory links. Even the Tribune article referred to by the Romney campaign reports that "about $6.5 million of $37 million that established the company came from wealthy El Salvadoran families linked to right-wing death squads."

The Salaverria family, whose fortune came from producing cotton and coffee, had deep connections to the right-wing Nationalist Republican Alliance (ARENA), a political party that death-squad leader Roberto D'Aubuisson founded in the fall of 1981. The year before, El Salvador's government had pushed through land reforms and nationalized the coffee trade, moves that threatened a ruling class whose financial and political dominance was built in large part on growing coffee. ARENA controlled and directed death squads during its early years.

On March 24, 1980, Oscar Romero, the archbishop of San Salvador and an advocate of the poor, was celebrating Mass at a chapel in a small hospital when he was assassinated on D'Aubuisson's orders, according to a person involved in the murder who later came forward.

The day before, Romero, an immensely popular figure, had called on the country's soldiers to refuse the government's orders to attack fellow Salvadorans.

"Before another killing order is given," he advised in his sermon, "the law of God must prevail: Thou shalt not kill."

Rest at link:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...ds-bain_n_1710133.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular