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PoliGAF 2012 Community Thread |OT2| This thread title is now under military control

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A

Aaron Strife

Banned
markatisu said:
Seniors ALWAYS vote, tell them their entitlements are on the line and see how fast they go D
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All you have to do is quote the CBO analysis:

Under the proposal, most elderly people would pay more for their health care than
they would pay under the current Medicare system. For a typical 65-year-old with
average health spending enrolled in a plan with benefits similar to those currently
provided by Medicare, CBO estimated the beneficiary’s spending on premiums and
out-of-pocket expenditures as a share of a benchmark: what total health care spending
would be if a private insurer covered the beneficiary. By 2030, the beneficiary’s spending would be 68 percent of that benchmark under the proposal, 25 percent under the
extended-baseline scenario, and 30 percent under the alternative fiscal scenario.
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Paul Ryan will triple your Medicare costs.
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
PhoenixDark said:
I'm not sure I agree 100% with that. Ryan is smart and charismatic; he'll probably embarrass Biden in a debate. He'll completely fire up the conservative base, which right now is not happy or greatly enthused about Romney.

Elderly and independents simply writing him off seems too perfect of a scenario. I want to see how the media, which loves him, treats this. I want to see how Ryan defends his budget - he's actually pretty good at debating.

Overall my gut tells me this is a laughable pick, but let's get more info first.
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Joe Biden is smart, clever and has an amazing personal story. As a matter of respect and so that he didn't humiliate her and look like a bully, he held back on Palin.

Ryan can debate, but only with the flatest of the flat lies and distortions, and the TRUTHS he is going to tell might be worse anyway. So, in order to fall in line behind Romney, he's going to have to pretend often to be something he's not, which is going to confuse the shit out of him at the debates since Ryan is outspoken. The second Biden starts twisting the knife on medicare "vouchers" and social security molestation, it's going to be game over. What can he do to come back from those claims about wildly popular social programs? It's true!
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
Clevinger said:
*Usually
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it's always "usually" with even the smartest politicians

but it's not that Joe Biden lacks intelligence, it's that he lacks an internal filter. So sometimes he gets carried away. During the debates against a nutcase like Ryan, this won't exactly necessarily be bad
 
C

Cloudy

Banned
Hmm, I don't get how Ryan is a "terrible" pick. He's articulate and a media darling. It could also put Romney over the top in Wisconsin.

This pick does tell me that Romney thinks he's losing though (even though it may not be true)
 
O

Officerrob

Banned
Cloudy said:
Hmm, I don't get how Ryan is a "terrible" pick. He's articulate and a media darling. It could also put Romney over the top in Wisconsin
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He can also cost Romney Florida and his budget plan full of entitlement cuts and changes will now be front and center in the election
 
D

Drakeon

Member
Cloudy said:
Hmm, I don't get how Ryan is a "terrible" pick. He's articulate and a media darling. It could also put Romney over the top in Wisconsin.

This pick does tell me that Romney thinks he's losing though (even though it may not be true)
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Ryan isn't particularly popular in Wisconsin to begin with, so this isn't exactly a great line of thinking.
 
C

ClovingWestbrook

Banned
Cloudy said:
Hmm, I don't get how Ryan is a "terrible" pick. He's articulate and a media darling. It could also put Romney over the top in Wisconsin.

This pick does tell me that Romney thinks he's losing though (even if it may not be true)
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Makes the election about cutting social services in a time people need it most, doing away with social security, and medicare, plus abortion amd female reproductive issues.
 
B

bananas

Banned
What was the point of downloading your stupid app to be the first to know who your VP pick was, Romney, if you couldn't even prevent your campaign staff from leaking it to NBC?
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
Vice Presidential nominees rarely if ever change anything even for their home states, a point or two in a direction. How much of a 'media darling' Ryan will be remains to be seen.. once the national spotlight withers him, it's a different ballgame. Similarly, the Ryan Budget is disastrous with the vast majority of independents and might overshadow what little positives he would potentially have on paper.
 
A

Allard

Member
Amir0x said:
Vice Presidential nominees rarely if ever change anything even for their home states, a point or two in a direction. How much of a 'media darling' Ryan will be remains to be seen.. once the national spotlight withers him, it's a different ballgame. Similarly, the Ryan Budget is disastrous with the vast majority of independents and might overshadow what little positives he would potentially have on paper.
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And like I said it allows Obama to put a spot light on the GOP house, a legitimate spot light on just what they have been voting on. Romney had a slim but horrific chance to win the presidency but there was still plenty of hope of keeping the house and still some hope of taking the senate. Outside of Bachmann he quite literally could not have picked a worse candidate in a key year for dominance of the legislature. At least Portman would just have brought up Bush, but Ryan has direct ties to the current congress which has the worst favorable rating in decades.
 
M

metalslimer

Member
What exactly is Ryan going to run on? His voting record does not look good to anyone who dislikes many of Bush's policies and he's basically been one of the big faces of Tea Party House which has accomplished NOTHING. Seriously, now that I think about it has any worthwhile legislation passed through congress since the tea party took over?
 
Z

Zeus Molecules

illegal immigrants are stealing our air
Also Ryan being from Wisconsin will likely lead to a discussion of the koch brothers and their Republican Governor as well.
 
J

johnsmith

remember me
metalslimer said:
What exactly is Ryan going to run on? His voting record does not look good to anyone who dislikes many of Bush's policies and he's basically been one of the big faces of Tea Party House which has accomplished NOTHING. Seriously, now that I think about it has any worthwhile legislation passed through congress since the tea party took over?
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They've repealed Obamacare about 40 times.
 
D

Drakeon

Member
metalslimer said:
What exactly is Ryan going to run on? His voting record does not look good to anyone who dislikes many of Bush's policies and he's basically been one of the big faces of Tea Party House which has accomplished NOTHING. Seriously, now that I think about it has any worthwhile legislation passed through congress since the tea party took over?
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They've accomplished what they set out to do, which is to say, stop Obama from doing pretty much anything.
 
M

Matt

Member
Amir0x said:
obviously polls from then don't mean shit, but even if he was even, Obama has been remarkably good at casting negative narrative nets... and Ryan practically writes his own for them.
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Ryan literally wrote his own negative narrative. He put things down on paper that most other politicians wouldn't dare.
 
C

cartoon_soldier

Member
metalslimer said:
What exactly is Ryan going to run on? His voting record does not look good to anyone who dislikes many of Bush's policies and he's basically been one of the big faces of Tea Party House which has accomplished NOTHING. Seriously, now that I think about it has any worthwhile legislation passed through congress since the tea party took over?
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His budget plan.

I repeat, he successfully sold his 2012 budget plan to the Media. Media loved it. Media will talk about it, this is what America needs, media sees him as a "hero" for suggesting this budget plan.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
cousins said:
And, aren't Republicans about to control the Senate? These are dark times.
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Nah, Democrats can keep it if Obama wins. Pick up Massachusetts, Maine and Nevada and they're probably golden.

And hell, Nevada's senator Dean Heller got to vote for the Ryan budget in the House AND the Senate. Unless seniors take a liking to Medicare cuts, he's got a tough road ahead.
 
C

cousins

Member
But, I'm pretty sure plenty of people love Paul Ryan. All that he needs to do is lie, and keep lying;if he lies often enough, people will believe him.

Most people never examine anything beyond the surface.
 
The Chosen One

The Chosen One

Member
Poor T-Paw... :lol

Two weeks ago I thought Ryan was a complete long shot to be VP. But after Miitt's disastrous foreign trip and how the tax return issue still wasn't going away, I was starting to get the feeling the Romney campaign might be desperate enough to pick Ryan.

In my mind, this is another Sarah Palin type pick, IMO. Okay maybe not that bad. But clearly this is designed to energize the base and make a dull candidate/campaign seem more exciting. Yet it's another young lightweight VP pick who is very polarizing.

Is anyone really comfortable with the idea of Paul Ryan being President of the United States? At his stage of his career I think he would make a great cabinet member in a Romney Admin, but he lacks gravitas as an executive to run the most powerful nation in the world. Aside from defending the Ryan Plan, the Romney campaign is going to have spend a lot of time just convincing independents and few dems that Ryan is ready to take over the presidency in a moment's notice.

But again, at least conservatives/republicans will now fight for Romney despite his plethora of gaffes and idealogical flip-flops. But this VP pick was hardly a pick that helps build a broad coalition. If anything, it narrows it.
 
O

Officerrob

Banned
cousins said:
But, I'm pretty sure plenty of people love Paul Ryan. All that he needs to do is lie, and keep lying;if he lies often enough, people will believe him.

Most people never examine anything beyond the surface.
Click to expand...

Problem for him is that his budget plan isn't some mystery that people think he wants to do, it's in text
 
M

metalslimer

Member
cousins said:
But, I'm pretty sure plenty of people love Paul Ryan. All that he needs to do is lie, and keep lying;if he lies often enough, people will believe him.

Most people never examine anything beyond the surface.
Click to expand...

Yeah this worked well for Palin. When you're up on the big stage the media love you may have once had (cough Palin) no longer exists. Ryan's plan will be discussed on every show for the next 3 months because it boosts ratings. He can't go on Fox News the whole time and pretend like he is something that he's not.
 
M

Matt

Member
cousins said:
But, I'm pretty sure plenty of people love Paul Ryan. All that he needs to do is lie, and keep lying;if he lies often enough, people will believe him.

Most people never examine anything beyond the surface.
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For the 1,000,000th time, NY-26th.
 
G

gutter_trash

Banned
the ultra-right are really forcing their hand on Romney to promise him a smooth convention with no tussle by tapping Ryan.

This has nothing to do with winning Wisconsin, this is all to do with the ultra-right telling Mitt what to do or else he would have had a rough convention

what a lose-lose situation LOL

Rubio could have handed him Florida and challenge the Latino vote but hahahahhah Ryan will alienate anyone who is not ultra-right
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
cartoon_soldier said:
His budget plan.

I repeat, he successfully sold his 2012 budget plan to the Media. Media loved it. Media will talk about it, this is what America needs, media sees him as a "hero" for suggesting this budget plan.
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That same budget also lost them NY-26.

Then one of only two districts in New York that had not sent a Democrat to Congress since 2002 (the other being Peter King's).
 
G

Gruco

Banned
cartoon_soldier said:
His budget plan.

I repeat, he successfully sold his 2012 budget plan to the Media. Media loved it. Media will talk about it, this is what America needs, media sees him as a "hero" for suggesting this budget plan.
Click to expand...
Seriously, everyone laughing needs to brace yourself for three months of editorials proclaiming Paul Ryan, budget hero, the most serious man in Congress. The one who can out-budgety-talk the president. The one never afraid to make the tough call. Visionary. Belittled by people who are too focused on politics to see the big picture. Etc.

Maybe it was a brilliant move after all. Much like Palin, Ryan is effectively the head of the ticket. So now Mitt has an outside shot at not needing to talk about his tax returns anymore.
 
M

Matt

Member
Gruco said:
Seriously, everyone laughing needs to brace yourself for three months of editorials proclaiming Paul Ryan, budget hero, the most serious man in Congress. The one who can out-budgety-talk the president. The one never afraid to make the tough call. Visionary. Belittled by people who are too focused on politics to see the big picture. Etc.

Maybe it was a brilliant move after all. Much like Palin, Ryan is effectively the head of the ticket. So now Mitt has an outside shot at not needing to talk about his tax returns anymore.
Click to expand...

For once, someone has too low an opinion of the American news media.
 
M

metalslimer

Member
Gruco said:
Seriously, everyone laughing needs to brace yourself for three months of editorials proclaiming Paul Ryan, budget hero, the most serious man in Congress. The one who can out-budgety-talk the president. The one never afraid to make the tough call. Visionary. Belittled by people who are too focused on politics to see the big picture. Etc.

Maybe it was a brilliant move after all. Much like Palin, Ryan is effectively the head of the ticket. So now Mitt has an outside shot at not needing to talk about his tax returns anymore.
Click to expand...

And you say we shouldn't be laughing? Are we forgetting how much the media loved Palin when she was announced and how much they loved her little convention speech?
 
A

Averon

Member
cousins said:
Ryan actually makes sense, considering Wisconsin. Still, he's a douche, so fuck him.
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Trading Wisconsin for potentially Florida? Pretty crappy math there. Then again, the Romney camp has been all about crappy math, so I guess they're just following their established theme.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
Gruco said:
Seriously, everyone laughing needs to brace yourself for three months of editorials proclaiming Paul Ryan, budget hero, the most serious man in Congress. The one who can out-budgety-talk the president. The one never afraid to make the tough call. Visionary. Belittled by people who are too focused on politics to see the big picture. Etc.

Maybe it was a brilliant move after all. Much like Palin, Ryan is effectively the head of the ticket. So now Mitt has an outside shot at not needing to talk about his tax returns anymore.
Click to expand...
Oh, the media fucking loves Paul Ryan. They also loved Palin though.

Obama's campaign knows how to control the narrative though. Why do you think we're talking about Mitt's tax returns?
 
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