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PoliGAF 2012 Community Thread |OT2| This thread title is now under military control

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S

speculawyer

Member
gcubed said:
So basically, the ships sunk, but it gets him more national exposure and they can see how the country reacts to him?

I think if Paul Ryan is a future presidential candidate for the GOP, the GOP is completely irrelevant
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They don't see the ship as sunk. They see unemployment at 8.3% and feel this is their chance. However, they can't seem to appreciate how much this ticket alienates people outside of their base of rich people wanting tax cuts and social conservatives always going for the GOP because the other guys are babby-killerz.

A rich guy that pays 13.9% taxes on $20Million in income and won't show us other years because he presumably pays even less along with his side-kick that wants to raise taxes on the middle-class (and cut their benefits) in order to cut rich guy's taxes to 0.82%. Once that gets repeated over and over, they may finally realize that the ticket is not going to fly.
 
L

LosDaddie

Banned
Good on Romney for showing some semblance of a backbone by picking Ryan as VP. Definitely not the safe choice he could've gone with.

And I believe Dems are underestimating Ryan, especiallly with the Palin comparisons. Unlike her, Ryan has a functioning brain, and can sell his message far better than Palin ever could wish.

That said, I am happy Ryan was picked :)
 
S

speculawyer

Member
PantherLotus said:
You keep saying it's a risk-free trial balloon, but I've proven that it's not! If he really has presidential ambitions, he's smart enough to know that losing this year will kill them.
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I think Eznark has got a point. Romney himself ran for Senate and lost, ran in a previous presidential primary and lost, and yet here he is the candidate now. John Edwards was a losing VP but that is not what killed his career . . . he was just outshined by Obama and more well-known Hillary but then destroyed his career with an affair. Just because previous losing VPs haven't won that doesn't mean it is impossible.
 
Dude Abides

Dude Abides

Banned
eznark said:
The Road Map was definitely that, but he has been employing the same budget hawk rhetoric since at least 1999. He opened for a GWB event that I was at and his proposed hawkish reforms were even more sweeping. He used to be a very vocal social security privatizer in addition to reforming medicaid.

He is definitely an ideologue more than an opportunist, but he's a politician so there is more than enough opportunist mixed in.
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Rhetorically, perhaps, but substantively he voted for TARP, Medicare Part D, the 2005 highway bill, the auto bailout, etc.
 
D

DeathbyVolcano

Banned
LosDaddie said:
Good on Romney for showing some semblance of a backbone by picking Ryan as VP. Definitely not the safe choice he could've gone with.

And I believe Dems are underestimating Ryan, especiallly with the Palin comparisons. Unlike her, Ryan has a functioning brain, and can sell his message far better than Palin ever could wish.

That said, I am happy Ryan was picked :)
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The comparisons are unfair because no one sucks as much as Palin, but Ryan is gonna be goofed in the months to come.
 
R

RDreamer

Member
LosDaddie said:
Good on Romney for showing some semblance of a backbone by picking Ryan as VP. Definitely not the safe choice he could've gone with.

And I believe Dems are underestimating Ryan, especiallly with the Palin comparisons. Unlike her, Ryan has a functioning brain, and can sell his message far better than Palin ever could wish.

That said, I am happy Ryan was picked :)
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I'd beg to differ :p

But yes, he's a completely different beast than Palin altogether.
 
M

Measley

Junior Member
Doc Holliday said:
I loved watching Chris Mathews completely destroy Joe Scarborough this morning. I know, I know, it's my guilty pleasure :/

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036697/#48658179

Around the 10:30 mark.
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Scarborough gets so damn annoying on his show. He just starts ranting his conservative argument and completely goes off the rails. When he's finished mouthing off, the entire topic is changed. It's ridiculous.

And yeah Matthews did destroy him. So did that Hispanic dude, and gave a good reason why Romney has lost the Hispanic vote.
 
E

eznark

Banned
What's the opposite of "dog whistle rhetoric"

Just want to know how to properly refer to Biden claiming Republicans want a return to slavery.
 
P

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
I think it's insulting to think that Palin isn't of above-average intelligence and hasn't been extremely effective at selling her message. She's gotta be in the top three political wordsmiths in our lifetimes (Gingrich, Palin, Rove).
 
P

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
Well, in the sense of using new words to describe old things in an specific effort/call-to-action.

See:
Welfare Queens (Reagan Era) - black people
Real America - white people
 
B

Byakuya769

Member
eznark said:
What's the opposite of "dog whistle rhetoric"

Just want to know how to properly refer to Biden claiming Republicans want a return to slavery.
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Stupid, stupid comment, but dog whistles are designed to effectively effectuate a racial response, blacks don't fear a return to slavery.
 
B

Blergmeister

Member
eznark said:
What's the opposite of "dog whistle rhetoric"

Just want to know how to properly refer to Biden claiming Republicans want a return to slavery.
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Reverse dog whistle rhetoric? Much like Reverse Racism it's just the same thing. Though in this instance I don't know what the dog whistle is meant to be? Welfare Queens is code for African Americans taking your money as Republicans want a return to slavery is code for ???
 
E

eznark

Banned
Blergmeister said:
Reverse dog whistle rhetoric? Much like Reverse Racism it's just the same thing. Though in this instance I don't know what the dog whistle is meant to be? Welfare Queens is code for African Americans taking your money as Republicans want a return to slavery is code for ???
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The reverse of coded rhetoric would I guess be bluntly aggressive rhetoric? I thought it should have a fun name.
 
T

The Librarian

Banned
On this day in 1935, the Social Security Act was signed into law.

The first page.

A0RIF4ZCQAADC-b.jpg:large
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Ryan is a more accomplished and better politician than any of the failed VPs listed; he's also younger than most of them. If Romney loses but doesn't take the entire party down with him, Ryan will naturally be considered a front runner for 2016. And even a big loss won't stop him from being the ideological leader of the house GOP; who is going to replace him?

There were plenty of people who argued that if Palin just read some books and went on a Nixon-like mission to campaign for tons of 2010 congressmen, she could easily be a front runner in 2012. Well she didn't read anything, and didn't campaign much either. Meanwhile on the dem side, if it wasn't for being a fucking dumbass John Edwards could have been a member of the Obama administration - and thus remain an important member of the party.

Ryan is more beloved than either of them.
 
C

Chumly

Member
LosDaddie said:
Good on Romney for showing some semblance of a backbone by picking Ryan as VP. Definitely not the safe choice he could've gone with.

And I believe Dems are underestimating Ryan, especiallly with the Palin comparisons. Unlike her, Ryan has a functioning brain, and can sell his message far better than Palin ever could wish.

That said, I am happy Ryan was picked :)
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Yes Ryan has a functioning brain but that doesn't mean he will nessarily be able to relate to voters in better than palin. He's smart but is he social smart or have common sense?
 
P

pigeon

Banned
Averon said:
Is there any realistic path to 270 for Romney without Ohio?
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If he keeps Florida and picks up Wisconsin, he can get to 270 by...winning all the other states that are even partially in play. (NC, NH, VA, CO -- neither campaign seems to think Pennsylvania is in play any more).

The "realistic" path to victory for Romney really is a national uptick of about three points. Which is definitely not impossible, but with only 4% undecided, it definitely isn't easy.
 
C

Chichikov

Member
Averon said:
Is there any realistic path to 270 for Romney without Ohio?
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It's not likely by any stretch of the imagination, but this is his best path without Ohio.

Or to put it in words, he'll have to win Colorado, Nevada, Iowa and Virginia, all while playing defense in Florida (though honestly, he isn't winning any of those states if he loses Florida).

I think Romney's realistic pass to victory (which is still a long shot in my mind) is winning Ohio, Virginia, Florida, and either Wisconsin or Iowa.

p.s.
New Hampshire might flip red from my map, but it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.
 
R

RDreamer

Member
Ryan questioned on medicare for all

Dude doesn't make any sense.

Ryan: There are three facts about medicare that you simply can’t dispute: 10,000 seniors are retiring everyday with fewer workers going into the workforce to pay for them; healthcare costs are skyrocketing at about four times the rate of inflation, which threatens medicare’s ability to give affordable care; and number three, the non-partisan experts agree that Medicare is going bankrupt. So Medicare’s status quo is bankruptcy and that threatens healthcare not only for current seniors but obviously for future seniors, so I believe a patient-centered healthcare system — reforms that put the patient at the center of the healthcare system, not the government — are the best for people who need healthcare and they’re best for the economy, and they’re the best way to avert a debt crisis.
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I'm not entirely sure what private system would actually put the patient at the center of the healthcare system. Private systems put profit at the center of their systems. That's kind of the entire idea of capitalism.

Ryan: — Government-run healthcare doesn’t work. Wherever we’ve seen government-run healthcare, it’s failed.
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Do people who spout this nonsense really believe it? Or are they just trying to distort things so other people don't believe it.
 
C

CharlieDigital

Banned
RDreamer said:
Ryan: — Government-run healthcare doesn’t work. Wherever we’ve seen government-run healthcare, it’s failed.
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Do people who spout this nonsense really believe it? Or are they just trying to distort things so other people don't believe it.
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See this quote is so easy to refute: Canada. Or any number of first-world nations with universal, single-payer health care.
 
T

Tim-E

Member
At this point I'd say the only real "swing" states are Colorado, Iowa, Ohio, Virginia, North Carolina, and Florida. If Obama wins just Ohio, Virginia, Florida, or North Carolina and loses all the other swing states he wins. If he wins Colorado and Iowa and loses the rest of them, he wins. The only swing states Romney can afford to lose and still win are either Colorado OR Iowa.

If Romney loses either Ohio, Virginia, North Carolina, or Florida, he loses. He HAS to win every one of those.
 
D

DeathbyVolcano

Banned
PhoenixDark said:
Ryan is a more accomplished and better politician than any of the failed VPs listed; he's also younger than most of them. If Romney loses but doesn't take the entire party down with him, Ryan will naturally be considered a front runner for 2016. And even a big loss won't stop him from being the ideological leader of the house GOP; who is going to replace him?

There were plenty of people who argued that if Palin just read some books and went on a Nixon-like mission to campaign for tons of 2010 congressmen, she could easily be a front runner in 2012. Well she didn't read anything, and didn't campaign much either. Meanwhile on the dem side, if it wasn't for being a fucking dumbass John Edwards could have been a member of the Obama administration - and thus remain an important member of the party.

Ryan is more beloved than either of them.
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Yeah, Ryan is more beloved than a one-term moronic governor and a fucking man-whore..

So, like, he's totally beloved.
 
R

RDreamer

Member
CharlieDigital said:
See this quote is so easy to refute: Canada. Or any number of first-world nations with universal, single-payer health care.
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Try and bring that up to one of these people, though. They really seem to fundamentally believe that all of those systems have failed. It's just really strange. I can see a voter on the lower end believing that because that's what people have told them, but someone on the higher end should at least have more knowledge about other countries and how they work. That's why I think it's kind of insidious that he's pushing this narrative that he has to know simply isn't true.
 
T

Tim-E

Member
A guy at work (a conservative who knows I'm a liberal) said I should be "scared" now that Ryan is the VP pick. I told him that Romney's pick was a gift to democrats and he couldn't understand what I meant. eznark is right in saying that this is a truly bipartisan pick.
 
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