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PoliGAF 2012 Community Thread |OT2| This thread title is now under military control

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T

thezerofire

Banned
RDreamer said:
Do people who spout this nonsense really believe it? Or are they just trying to distort things so other people don't believe it.
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Yeah, they've all failed, that's why GB celebrated their NHS in the damn Olympics

RDreamer said:
Try and bring that up to one of these people, though. They really seem to fundamentally believe that all of those systems have failed. It's just really strange. I can see a voter on the lower end believing that because that's what people have told them, but someone on the higher end should at least have more knowledge about other countries and how they work. That's why I think it's kind of insidious that he's pushing this narrative that he has to know simply isn't true.
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Exactly. I know people who claim that universal healthcare in other countries (Canada in particular) have failed because rich Canadians come to the US for treatment.

They fundamentally don't understand that healthcare systems shouldn't be set up for the rich
 
C

codhand

Member
RDreamer said:
Ryan questioned on medicare for all

Dude doesn't make any sense.

Do people who spout this nonsense really believe it? Or are they just trying to distort things so other people don't believe it.
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The only quote by Ryan you need know is the following:

"The reason I got involved in public service, by and large, if I had to credit one thinker, one person, it would be Ayn Rand', 'I grew up reading Ayn Rand and it taught me quite a bit about who I am and what my value systems are, and what my beliefs are. It’s inspired me so much that it’s required reading in my office for all my interns and my staff."
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
Tim-E said:
A guy at work (a conservative who knows I'm a liberal) said I should be "scared" now that Ryan is the VP pick. I told him that Romney's pick was a gift to democrats and he couldn't understand what I meant. eznark is right in saying that this is a truly bipartisan pick.
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You liberals should be afraid of Palin!
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Black Republican said:
what are u trying to say sir?
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We don't know what second and third generation Hispanics will do. Many other minorities in US history have simply assimilated into the general white race/culture such as the Irish, Italians, and their voting habits changed as well. If Hispanics simply move from their culture and immigration becomes less of an issue to them (as second and third generation Hispanics with little connection to those issues), what happens? Maybe they move towards the party they already support on religious grounds.
 
P

pigeon

Banned
PhoenixDark said:
We don't know what second and third generation Hispanics will do. Many other minorities in US history have simply assimilated into the general white race/culture such as the Irish, Italians, and their voting habits changed as well. If Hispanics simply move from their culture and immigration becomes less of an issue to them (as second and third generation Hispanics with little connection to those issues), what happens? Maybe they move towards the party they already support on religious grounds.
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Hispanics are historically Catholic. Catholics are historically somewhat Democratic -- the Holy See is generally socially conservative about sex and socially liberal about everything else.

http://ncronline.org/news/catholics-america/religion-and-political-affiliation
 
D

DeathbyVolcano

Banned
After the initial guffaw I got regarding the Palin pick, I was pretty scared: she brought up new narratives, she was a stark contrast to McCain (you know, young, loud, and female), and she had the female base up in arms. It wasn't until she started hitting the campaign trail hardcore and taking part in the VP debate that I realized how hysterically awful she was.

Ryan is just a bad pick, period (or a good one, depending on how you look at it heh). There's no clear distinction or positive contrast between him and Romney, his financial ideas and bill is a joke and hated by a good portion of Americans, and he's already being polled as being high in disapproval. Romney isn't even getting the substantial VP pick bump. Sure, a small bump for sure, but this was the opportunity to wipe out his embarrassing foreign tour. Now the conversation is still that with an added bonus of "lol his VP pick is a financial nut job."
 
M

Measley

Junior Member
PhoenixDark said:
We don't know what second and third generation Hispanics will do. Many other minorities in US history have simply assimilated into the general white race/culture such as the Irish, Italians, and their voting habits changed as well. If Hispanics simply move from their culture and immigration becomes less of an issue to them (as second and third generation Hispanics with little connection to those issues), what happens? Maybe they move towards the party they already support on religious grounds.
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I don't see that happening for 2 reasons;

1. The population influx is huge, and isn't getting bottle-necked by racist laws.
2. The cultural source is very close to the U.S.

Old European ethnics were separated from their motherland by oceans. Mexico and Latin America borders the U.S., and Cuba is the same distance from the U.S. as Columbus is from Cincinnati.
 
C

codhand

Member
DeathbyVolcano said:
Romney isn't even getting the substantial VP pick bump. Sure, a small bump for sure, but this was the opportunity to wipe out his embarrassing foreign tour. Now the conversation is still that with an added bonus of "lol his VP pick is a financial nut job."
Click to expand...

This pick just sucks, Nate Silver said median VP bump is +4, what's this one so far?
 
R

RustyNails

Member
eznark said:
I want 269-269 more than anything I have ever wanted ever.
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So is this a dog whistle for wanting Mitt Romney to be the president? You do know that the president will be decided by Congress if this happens, right? I mean, Obama and Romney aren't gonna have penalty shoot outs. Why don't you just say you're fine with Romney and his ayn rand cultist VP?
 
P

pigeon

Banned
RustyNails said:
So is this a dog whistle for wanting Mitt Romney to be the president? You do know that the president will be decided by Congress if this happens, right? I mean, Obama and Romney aren't gonna have penalty shoot outs. Why don't you just say you're fine with Romney and his ayn rand cultist VP?
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I assumed he wanted mass civil disorder? If we actually had a 269-269 tie I honestly think that would probably be the result, at least for a short time.
 
T

Tim-E

Member
RustyNails said:
So is this a dog whistle for wanting Mitt Romney to be the president? You do know that the president will be decided by Congress if this happens, right? I mean, Obama and Romney aren't gonna have penalty shoot outs. Why don't you just say you're fine with Romney and his ayn rand cultist VP?
Click to expand...

This is one tie-breaker Obama could win.
 
R

RustyNails

Member
pigeon said:
I assumed he wanted mass civil disorder? If we actually had a 269-269 tie I honestly think that would probably be the result, at least for a short time.
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There wont be any civil disorder. No point in hiding behind want of anarchy and lulz, when you are going to end up with Mitt Fucking Romney as the president. I guess people are too embarassed to outright say they support this shapeshifting robot, and instead resort to things like omg omg i want a 269-269 lolz that will be sooo funny!

Yeah, your country is in the hands of a man who has been on every side of every issue imaginable. Let the lulz begin.
 
T

The Librarian

Banned
I can't find the post nor can't remember the poster who linked the original article, but Slate's article on David Plotz's "The New New Deal" has been a great read. I recommend it.

I'm up to this part:
In general, I’d have to say my reporting backs up the Norm Ornstein-Thomas Mann thesis that the Republicans have gone off the policy deep end—denying global warming, denying Keynesian economics (except when it comes to business tax cuts and defense spending!), trashing Obama’s government takeover of health care and also his Medicare cuts, drumming stimulus supporters like Crist and Specter out of the party.
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Here's an actual passage from the book about Republican obstructionism, page 207:
Biden says that during the transition, he was warned not to expect any cooperation on many votes. “I spoke to seven different Republican Senators, who said, `Joe, I’m not going to be able to help you on anything,’ he recalls. His informants said McConnell had demanded unified resistance. “The way it was characterized to me was: `For the next two years, we can’t let you succeed in anything. That’s our ticket to coming back,’” Biden says.

The vice president says he hasn’t even told Obama who his sources were, but Bob Bennett of Utah and Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania both confirmed they had conversations with Biden along these lines.
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Page 148:
“People were pretty demoralized, and there were two totally opposite thoughts on how to approach the situation,” a McConnell aide recalls. “One was, `we don't like the president, we ought to pop him early.’ The other was, `he’s really popular, we should work with him, because that’s what people want us to do.’ The boss’s take was: Neither." McConnell realized that it would be much easier to fight Obama if Republicans first made a public show of wanting to work with him.
Click to expand...
 
N

NullPointer

Member
Was late for work this morning and my cab ride was fun. Rush Limbaugh on the radio with the driver warning me that re-electing that socialist Obama would turn us into a Banana Republic.

I asked him what he thought of the Ryan budget and he said he loved it, because it was going to save Medicare. That and reducing government spending would grow the economy.

I also asked what he thought would have been different in Romney took the helm in 2008, and he said that Romney would have lowered taxes even further and the business community would have breathed a sigh of relief.

My morning was... interesting.
 
D

DeathbyVolcano

Banned
NullPointer said:
Was late for work this morning and my cab ride was fun. Rush Limbaugh on the radio with the driver warning me that re-electing that socialist Obama would turn us into a Banana Republic.

I asked him what he thought of the Ryan budget and he said he loved it, because it was going to save Medicare. That and reducing government spending would grow the economy.

I also asked what he thought would have been different in Romney took the helm in 2008, and he said that Romney would have lowered taxes even further and the business community would have breathed a sigh of relief.

My morning was... interesting.
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A CAB DRIVER said this?

wtf
 
T

TacticalFox88

Banned
NullPointer said:
Was late for work this morning and my cab ride was fun. Rush Limbaugh on the radio with the driver warning me that re-electing that socialist Obama would turn us into a Banana Republic.

I asked him what he thought of the Ryan budget and he said he loved it, because it was going to save Medicare. That and reducing government spending would grow the economy.

I also asked what he thought would have been different in Romney took the helm in 2008, and he said that Romney would have lowered taxes even further and the business community would have breathed a sigh of relief.

My morning was... interesting.
Click to expand...

My mind still cannot fathom how this type of ignorance still exists.
 
R

RustyNails

Member
NullPointer said:
Was late for work this morning and my cab ride was fun. Rush Limbaugh on the radio with the driver warning me that re-electing that socialist Obama would turn us into a Banana Republic.

I asked him what he thought of the Ryan budget and he said he loved it, because it was going to save Medicare. That and reducing government spending would grow the economy.

I also asked what he thought would have been different in Romney took the helm in 2008, and he said that Romney would have lowered taxes even further and the business community would have breathed a sigh of relief.

My morning was... interesting.
Click to expand...
Usually in cases like these, I play dumb. I would've been like "But I heard Ryan Budget will turn Medicare into a voucher program. Is it true?" They will react with a full on defense armor, but you've done your job of planting the seed of doubt.

It's like Inception but with retards.
 
B

Black Republican

Member
RustyNails said:
Usually in cases like these, I play dumb. I would've been like "But I heard Ryan Budget will turn Medicare into a voucher program. Is it true?" They will react with a full on defense armor, but you've done your job of planting the seed of doubt.

It's like Inception but with retards.
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mind fuck your enemies Asuka style
 
C

cartoon_soldier

Member
Romney's ad hitting Obama on Medicare

“You paid in to Medicare for years…Every paycheck...Now, when you need it…Obama has cut $716 billion dollars from Medicare. Why? To pay for Obamacare. So now the money you paid for your guaranteed healthcare...Is going to a massive new government program that’s not for you. The Romney-Ryan plan protects Medicare benefits for today’s seniors and strengthens the plan for the next generation.”
Click to expand...

I do think it is important for Obama campaign to not let Romney get ahead of them on this debate. Even if the ads are blatant lies.
 
C

codhand

Member
cartoon_soldier said:
Romney's ad hitting Obama on Medicare

“You paid in to Medicare for years…Every paycheck...Now, when you need it…Obama has cut $716 billion dollars from Medicare. Why? To pay for Obamacare. So now the money you paid for your guaranteed healthcare...Is going to a massive new government program that’s not for you. The Romney-Ryan plan protects Medicare benefits for today’s seniors and strengthens the plan for the next generation.”
Click to expand...

ah, back to more "I know thou art but what art I?" defense.
 
N

NullPointer

Member
RustyNails said:
Usually in cases like these, I play dumb. I would've been like "But I heard Ryan Budget will turn Medicare into a voucher program. Is it true?" They will react with a full on defense armor, but you've done your job of planting the seed of doubt.

It's like Inception but with retards.
Click to expand...
I did bring up the vouchers. He replied that part of the genius of the Ryan plan was that you could choose to either keep using Medicare as is, or move to a voucher system. So the choice was in the hands of Americans and not Obama.

He was also worried that Obama was ready to nationalize a bunch more industries. Said that he heard a quote from Obama to that effect. Have no idea what he was referring to though.

Yeah - was a crazy ride and it would have gone on for a lot longer but like I said, I was late for work. We did spend about five minutes in the cab after reaching my stop just to hash out a few more points (Obamacare being a conservative idea and Romney suggesting it as a template for nation - but he didn't believe a word of it.) but I really had to go. We parted amicably enough but its like we lived in wholly separate universes ;P
 
E

eznark

Banned
RustyNails said:
So is this a dog whistle for wanting Mitt Romney to be the president? You do know that the president will be decided by Congress if this happens, right? I mean, Obama and Romney aren't gonna have penalty shoot outs. Why don't you just say you're fine with Romney and his ayn rand cultist VP?
Click to expand...

From my perspective there is little difference either way. 2000 was fantastic and I am incredibly pleased to have lived through that period. I'd love something similar (in a totally different way) to happen again.

As for the "Ayn Rand cultist" if Ryan actually voted on those supposed beliefs there is strong chance I'd be voting for that ticket. Romney is a squishy wimp, if a strong VP pushing individualism and anarcho-capitalism I'd maybe be persuaded. Instead he is a punk-bitch politician who sold out. Super nice guy though!
 
D

dabig2

Member
cartoon_soldier said:
Romney's ad hitting Obama on Medicare



I do think it is important for Obama campaign to not let Romney get ahead of them on this debate. Even if the ads are blatant lies.
Click to expand...

True, but I really hope the media is on this as well. Romney is trying his hardest to muddy the waters because he knows he's fucked on medicare, but even a cursory glance at his statement indicates that it's completely bullshit.
 
T

Tim-E

Member
The Obama campaign better be quietly building up a way to attack on this, because they've gone two days and haven't done much to combat that line. Then again, when nightly news programs are calling Ryan's program out as being a voucher program, who knows how effective Romney's argument is. I think Obama can win this argument, they just need to be as aggressive as they have been.

The Obama campaign is likely waiting until the media honeymoon with Ryan is over before they begin their attack.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
cartoon_soldier said:
Romney's ad hitting Obama on Medicare



I do think it is important for Obama campaign to not let Romney get ahead of them on this debate. Even if the ads are blatant lies.
Click to expand...

Not a bad ad. I'm not nearly as convinced as you guys that republicans will outright lose this debate. Seniors already don't trust Obama, even if they realize Obamacare hasn't killed them.
 
G

gcubed

Member
PhoenixDark said:
Not a bad ad. I'm not nearly as convinced as you guys that republicans will outright lose this debate. Seniors already don't trust Obama, even if they realize Obamacare hasn't killed them.
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Obamacare gave seniors cold hard cash, i doubt their mistrust is so high
 
M

Measley

Junior Member
“You paid in to Medicare for years…Every paycheck...Now, when you need it…Obama has cut $716 billion dollars from Medicare. Why? To pay for Obamacare. So now the money you paid for your guaranteed healthcare...Is going to a massive new government program that’s not for you. The Romney-Ryan plan protects Medicare benefits for today’s seniors and strengthens the plan for the next generation.”
Click to expand...

What exactly is the "Romney-Ryan Plan"?
 
H

Hobbestetrician

Member
Tim-E said:
This is one tie-breaker Obama could win.
Click to expand...

I kinda want to see Romney throw out the first pitch at some baseball game because something tells me it would be hilarious. But who knows, he is a big fan of sport. Obama doesn't exactly have a rocket arm (though he has a nice jumper) but no way Romney can throw at all. This would be the only instance I would choose Bush to do something, the guy could hit the strike zone.
 
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