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PoliGAF 2012 Community Thread |OT2| This thread title is now under military control

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I saw Karl Rove respond to being asked about Ryan giving a VP polling boost and Rove said something to the effect of "Well, it's a moderate boost but Romney made this pick for the long view. he's turned this election to one about choices between Obama's plans and the GOP plan and attacking deficits, lowering taxes."

Rove had to spin the terrible poll bounce by calling it "moderate" and talking about how it's a long game now. It can't be good when Rove is struggling to make the case...
 

Chichikov

Member
That describes my teenage me.
They used to be my favorite band.
Oh I'm not hating, I saw them when I was 16 and it was fucking perfect, for the time, the place and the state of mind.

It's just that listening to them at 42 reinforce negative stereotypes about libertarians, if you know what I mean (and I think you do, because I just spelled it in the previous post).
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
I saw Karl Rove respond to being asked about Ryan giving a VP polling boost and Rove said something to the effect of "Well, it's a moderate boost but Romney made this pick for the long view. he's turned this election to one about choices between Obama's plans and the GOP plan and attacking deficits, lowering taxes."

Rove had to spin the terrible poll bounce by calling it "moderate" and talking about how it's a long game now. It can't be good when Rove is struggling to make the case...

They should have attacked Rove on his strengths: 'Is it not true that you are the king of the douchenozzles?'
 
He can't be surprised though.
They're not exactly subtle about their politics (or anything for that matter).
I mean, even if he never listened to a word they sang, wrote or said, that still should be pretty fucking clear -

bhIqC.jpg

I hate the copout of I don't like their lyrics just the music.
I understand disagreeing some of them (I'm not a radical leftist like Rage and especially don't disagree with as much foreign policy as they do) but I do empathize with some of their statements (or more of their rage at some of the establishment) even if I don't agree with them.

But someone like ryan? How the hell can he listen to a single song, the lyrics and subject matter are so overwhelming? Its like a cop listening to "fuck the police", they're talking about him.
 
I saw Karl Rove respond to being asked about Ryan giving a VP polling boost and Rove said something to the effect of "Well, it's a moderate boost but Romney made this pick for the long view. he's turned this election to one about choices between Obama's plans and the GOP plan and attacking deficits, lowering taxes."

Rove had to spin the terrible poll bounce by calling it "moderate" and talking about how it's a long game now. It can't be good when Rove is struggling to make the case...

I love how the GOP is now making this a choice election (which is something Obama will win) and not the referendum argument (which the GOP should win, unemployment is still 8%, its never been this high in my entire life)
 

Chichikov

Member
I hate the copout of I don't like their lyrics just the music.
I understand disagreeing some of them (I'm not a radical leftist like Rage and especially don't disagree with as much foreign policy as they do) but I do empathize with some of their statements (or more of their rage at some of the establishment) even if I don't agree with them.

But someone like ryan? How the hell can he listen to a single song, the lyrics and subject matter are so overwhelming? Its like a cop listening to "fuck the police", they're talking about him.
I don't have a problem listening to music that I disagree with politically.
I generally don't pay too much attention to what musicians have to say, it's not usually profound.

I certainly don't fault Ryan for listening to Rage, I just find it a bit funny.
 

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
I don't have a problem listening to music that I disagree with politically.
I generally don't pay too much attention to what musicians have to say, it's not usually profound.

I certainly don't fault Ryan for listening to Rage, I just find it a bit funny.

Oh you definitely can. In fact that makes it a bit more fascinating sometimes.

I listen to music that I disagree with sometimes but I always cringe at some lines (Kanye's line about the government giving blacks aids for example is one that always stands out) I couldn't listen to music thats entire message was the opposite of my entire belief system (its anti captialist to its core). They're not throw away lines.

Best line in there and something that I think hits the nail on the head with Ayn Rand's followers love of the Parasite metaphore and "going galt"

You see, the super rich must rationalize having more than they could ever spend while millions of children in the U.S. go to bed hungry every night. So, when they look themselves in the mirror, they convince themselves that "Those people are undeserving. They're . . . lesser." Some of these guys on the extreme right are more cynical than Paul Ryan, but he seems to really believe in this stuff. This unbridled rage against those who have the least is a cornerstone of the Romney-Ryan ticket.
 

markatisu

Member
I watched the news tonight and it seems all they were talking about was Romney's taxes based on what him and his wife have said this week

I swear sometimes I think he is just trying to fail, nobody can make this many mistakes. You pick Ryan and try to push Obama on Medicare and then sink your own momentum by bringing your taxes back to the front LOL

Also I knew Ryan was loathed but this week I have just seen pure hate in people when they talk about him, Iowans are not really angry people but several I have seen this week seem enraged that he is on the ticket.
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/...urgh-Stealers-The-Voter-ID-Paul-Ryan-Strategy

Obligatory lol Daily Kos, I'm no conspiracy believer etc...but the more I look at this election, the more this seems like the case. Florida, PA, and Ohio all have vote suppression issues. If you shit can enough votes in Philly, you can swing a close election.

I've been saying this shit for weeks! But all of poligaf was "Come on, Oblivion! Like that could ever happen. And put some pants on, for god's sake!"
 

Jooney

Member
Tom Morello's comments aside, but it seems rare that a politician would actually come out and state that the music of RATM is one of their favourites, given how 'radical' their message is. This, after all, is the band that had all their music blacklisted by Clear Channel after 9/11.

But good on Paul Ryan for having good taste!
 
Last week Romney wanted a truce, Team Obama offers a deal for Romney, doubt he will take it though, heh:


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...obama-camp-on-romneys-taxes-lets-make-a-deal/

Obama campaign manager Jim Messina has an offer for Mitt Romney campaign manager Matt Rhoades: Release five years of tax returns and the Obama campaign will stop criticizing or questioning the former Massachusetts governor for not releasing more. (There is no offer to refrain from criticizing the contents of those returns).


Matt Rhoades
585 Commercial Street
Boston, Massachusetts 02109

Dear Matt:

I am writing to ask again that the Governor release multiple years of tax returns, but also to make an offer that should address his concerns about the additional disclosures. Governor Romney apparently fears that the more he offers, the more our campaign will demand that he provide. So I am prepared to provide assurances on just that point: if the Governor will release five years of returns, I commit in turn that we will not criticize him for not releasing more–neither in ads nor in other public communications or commentary for the rest of the campaign.

This request for the release of five years, covering the complete returns for 2007-2012, is surely not unreasonable. Other Presidential candidates have released more, including the Governor’s father who provided 12 years of returns. In the Governor’s case, a five year release would appropriately span all the years that he has been a candidate for President. It would also help answer outstanding questions raised by the one return he has released to date, such as the range in the effective rates paid, the foreign accounts maintained, the foreign investments made, and the types of tax shelters used.

To provide these five years, the Governor would have to release only three more sets of returns in addition to the 2010 return he has released and the 2011 return he has pledged to provide. And, I repeat, the Governor and his campaign can expect in return that we will refrain from questioning whether he has released enough or pressing for more.

I look forward to your reply.

Jim Messina
Obama for America Campaign Manager
 

FyreWulff

Member
Seriously, all he had to do was release them in the first place. By holding them back he's raising the importance of them.

Viewing it from a neutral point of view, if I were running the Romney campaign, right now everyone would still be talking about Obama's "You didn't make that" comment. But all they're doing is every time they get a hook on the Obama campaign, they just bring the attention back to themselves again and put Romney on the defensive, when they should be putting the incumbent on the defensive.

If he's just hoping to put off releasing them until he's President, I don't think that's going to work out for him. It's like he's playing to not lose, not playing to win, to borrow football commentary.

If he gets elected President and puts off the returns, then he can ignore them.. until he runs again, when the subject will come up again. And I would not doubt that Obama would run against him again.

If he loses the election and doesn't release the returns, then he escapes the candidacy without exposing how much he's actually paying in taxes, or his financial details. Right now I have a feeling that he values this over a potential presidency.
 
Really? I got a free one a looooong time ago. Haven't put it on my car yet. I wanted to before going to my parents' place last week, but my wife told me not to.




He's finally come around to the acceptance stage of the grieving process. Unfortunately it looks like Ed Klein is going to open up old wounds on him. Expect a turn.

I finally saw my first Romney bumper sticker today down in Colonial Williamsburg.
 

Loudninja

Member
Romney Camp Touts Bump Since Ryan Pick
In the memo, Rhoades highlights the campaign's online fundraising haul since Ryan was announced as Mitt Romney's running mate last week. The campaign has generated more than $10 million in online donations, with as much as $7.4 million raised in the three days following the Ryan selection. Moreover, Rhoades points to a spike in online traffic on the campaign's website, Twitter feed and Facebook page as evidence that Ryan has energized voters.

Rhoades also argues that the Republican ticket has seen a bump in the polls over the last week, underscoring gains made in Gallup's daily tracking polls and a survey from Purple Strategies that showed Romney and Ryan outperforming President Barack Obama and Vice President Joe Biden in swing states.
http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/romney-camp-touts-bump-since-ryan-pick

Look at that momentum!
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Good god, Ryan made the argument that it was okay that he had the same cuts in his budget that Obama did because he voted to repeal Obamacare, because that would get rid of those same cuts he's complaining about, and once supported.

...
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Y'all were talking about Soledad O'Brien earlier and how journalists should properly take on these attacks, so here's 5 Easy Arguments To Combat Romney/Ryan's Medicare Muddling:


1. If they bring up the Obama cuts to medicare and whine that it was such a horrible idea, ask them if they agree that it was also horrible for Ryan to keep those same cuts as well.

Now, some of you may be saying "Wait, they HAVE been bringing that up this week.", you are correct, but not really. It's true they bring up Paul Ryan's cuts as well, but the guests usually escape by saying that they're going with Romney's budget (whatever that is) instead of Ryan's. Keep the focus on Ryan, ask your guests whether Ryan was right to keep those cuts, and what does that say about Mitt Romney's decision making ability to choose someone like Ryan despite supporting such policies.

2. Ask them why the hell would an evil socialist ideologue, who dreams of having every facet of your life run by the government, would support cuts to a program that's 100% covered by the government (medicare) to a divert money to a program that's much farther to the right, which relies heavily on the PRIVATE insurance market (Obamcare)?

This honestly seems like a no-brainer to me, and yet I haven't even seen the commies on MSNBC bring this up. Romney, Ryan and the rest of the Republican party have this major problem where they can't directly attack medicare as this evil government program because it's enormously popular. This lead them to resort to using an amazing bit of political jiujitsu where they're trying to make the argument that Obamacare, because it's less popular, is somehow MORE big government than even medicare. It's almost breathtaking how cynical such a move is, but that's what they're going with.

3. If Ryan's "premium support system"/vouchers/coupons are so awesome, why not offer that to seniors RIGHT NOW?

The Republicans have been making this argument that Ryan's voucher system works just like federal health insurance plans that all congressmen have. They say "if it's good enough for our members of congress, it should be good enough for the American people!". Of course, although it sounds awesome, it's clearly not awesome, or perhaps TOO awesome for current seniors. This would put the Reps in a real pickle, and they'd have trouble weaseling their way out. If it really is so great, then they should convince current medicare beneficiaries to make the switch and see how well that goes. If it's not so great, then Republicans will be caught admitting that in addition to wanting to fuck over younger people, they will be admitting that a government run program is BETTER than a private alternative! The lols that would come about seeing the logical contortions alone would be worth bringing this up.

4. If Romney so desperately wants to keep those cuts from going into effect, how does Romney plan on paying for it and how does increasing medicare spending increase the solvency of the program?

It probably doesn't need to be said, but if you're going to increase spending on something, that additional money needs to be coming from somewhere else. What further programs is he gonna cut and whose taxes are he gonna raise? Or he going to just borrow money from China to fund socialized medicine?

5. Is Obama actually cutting medicare or not?

One of the many complaints the Right has about Obama is that he's not a proper leader because he's afraid to make important decisions on entitlements, and thus refuses to cut a single cent from medicare. This argument is being made simultaneously alongside another argument where Obama's somehow actually hates medicare and wants to gut it spectacularly.

Either Obama's a timid little wienie who's afraid to "make the touch choices" or he's a heartless, evil medicare raider. He can't be both.
 
Last week Romney wanted a truce, Team Obama offers a deal for Romney, doubt he will take it though, heh:


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...obama-camp-on-romneys-taxes-lets-make-a-deal/

Obama campaign manager Jim Messina has an offer for Mitt Romney campaign manager Matt Rhoades: Release five years of tax returns and the Obama campaign will stop criticizing or questioning the former Massachusetts governor for not releasing more. (There is no offer to refrain from criticizing the contents of those returns).

Perfect. It's keeps the tax return issue in the spotlight.
 
My guess is that Romney doesn't want to release tax returns for the periods around '08 - '09. That period may contain the IRS Swiss account amnesty and huge write-offs around the wall-street collapse.

That said, the Romney campaign clarified late yesterday that the 13% is indeed his federal income tax rate. So I'm guessing there must be some huge dirt involving foreign bank accounts because he's already admitted to the low 13% rate for the past ten years.That's somewhat off the table yet he's still scared to release anymore tax returns...HMMM....
 

Measley

Junior Member
I wonder how those working class conservatives will react to Romney raising taxes on them, yet getting more tax breaks for himself.
 

Averon

Member
Why did Romney even comment on how much he paid in taxes percentage-wise? It just brings his tax returns right back into the spotlight.
 

Measley

Junior Member
Republican congressman Jason Chaffetz was on CNN this morning facing off against Soledad O'Brian. He brought up the medicare thing again, and O'Brian pounced on him, bringing up AARP's support of Obamacare's cuts, and how the Republican congress voted for similar "cuts" in the Ryan budget.

I guess the GOP is going to keep pushing the lie that Obamacare guts Medicare even with so much evidence to the contrary.

Real Time should be great tonight.
 
Republican congressman Jason Chaffetz was on CNN this morning facing off against Soledad O'Brian. He brought up the medicare thing again, and O'Brian pounced on him, bringing up AARP's support of Obamacare's cuts, and how the Republican congress voted for similar "cuts" in the Ryan budget.

I guess the GOP is going to keep pushing the lie that Obamacare guts Medicare even with so much evidence to the contrary.

Real Time should be great tonight.
real time is back?
 

AlteredBeast

Fork 'em, Sparky!
Apparently you guys don't listen to conservative talk radio (I can't blame you, guilty pleasure) but there are at least 2 far right conservative elderly groups out there that call the AARP far left. I am sure that in reality, these groups are funded by the Koch brothers or something, but they are incredibly pathetic and weak calls to action. Chuck Woolery shills for one that I can recall.
 
Apparently you guys don't listen to conservative talk radio (I can't blame you, guilty pleasure) but there are at least 2 far right conservative elderly groups out there that call the AARP far left. I am sure that in reality, these groups are funded by the Koch brothers or something, but they are incredibly pathetic and weak calls to action. Chuck Woolery shills for one that I can recall.

http://saveuschuckwoolery.com/

He's already converted me.
 
Apparently you guys don't listen to conservative talk radio (I can't blame you, guilty pleasure) but there are at least 2 far right conservative elderly groups out there that call the AARP far left. I am sure that in reality, these groups are funded by the Koch brothers or something, but they are incredibly pathetic and weak calls to action. Chuck Woolery shills for one that I can recall.

Yea, I do from time to time, and I knew of one large conservative seniors lobbying group. I just couldn't recall the name.
 
David Simon on Mitt Romney:

Can we stand back and pause a short minute to take in the spectacle of a man who wants to be President of The United States, who wants us to seriously regard him as a paragon of the American civic ideal, declaiming proudly and in public that he has paid his taxes at a third of the rate normally associated with gentlemen of his economic benefit.

Stunning.

Am I supposed to congratulate this man? Thank him for his good citizenship? Compliment him for being clever enough to arm himself with enough tax lawyers so that he could legally minimize his obligations?

Thirteen percent. The last time I paid taxes at that rate, I believe I might still have been in college. If not, it was my first couple years as a newspaper reporter. Since then, the paychecks have been just fine, thanks, and I don’t see any reason not to pay at the rate appropriate to my earnings, given that I’m writing the check to the same government that provided the economic environment that allowed for such incomes.

I can’t get over the absurdity of this moment, honestly: Hey, I never paid less than thirteen percent. I swear. And no, you can’t examine my tax returns in any more detail. But I promise you all, my fellow American citizens, I never once slipped to single digits. I’m just not that kind of guy.

God.

This republic is just about over, isn’t it?

He has some posts in the comments section too.
 
Can we stand back and pause a short minute to take in the spectacle of a man who wants to be President of The United States, who wants us to seriously regard him as a paragon of the American civic ideal...

I particularly agree with this in the most general sense. I just don't buy into the fact that he has the American people as his primary concern in his candidacy. Whether you agree with Obama's world view or not, whether you agree with Democratic policies or not, whether you personally believe that Obama has handled the mess he inherited the best hat he could or not, it's hard to dispute that Obama seems to genuinely give a fuck about the American people and the well-being of our fellow citizens. It is very hard for me to imagine that Romney gives a fuck about people.

And on the topic of Romney's tax rate, I don't believe I've ever paid less than 18% effective since I've graduated college...
 

Tim-E

Member
LOL Going after AARP as a left-wing socialist organization is beautiful. It's one of the most powerful lobbying groups in the country and has over 40,000,000 members. Why on earth would you want to piss them off??
 
Why did Romney even comment on how much he paid in taxes percentage-wise? It just brings his tax returns right back into the spotlight.

I found his answer quite vague. He just said 'taxes' not 'Federal income taxes'. Is he including state income taxes paid? Property taxes? Sales taxes? Gift taxes? Excise taxes? Foreign taxes?

He may have only paid 3% Federal income taxes and still technically be telling the truth.
 
I'm also really baffled by Romney.

He was arguably a more centrist politician -- even a bit Left leaning -- when he was governor of Massachusetts and there was always the thought that once out of the primaries, that him and his campaign would pivot back to more centrist, more inclusive, big-tent politics that would woo independents (this is going back to Etch-a-Sketch Romney (and by the way, I'm hoping the Dem's seize on this like those fucking purple band-aids the Right used to mock Kerry (like if I had a chance to meet Romney, I'd ask for his signature on an Etch-a-Sketch))).

He would have nothing to lose by going more centrist as he wouldn't lose those on the Left, those on the Right have no other choice, and those undecided Independents in the middle can now choose comfortably between 1 and 1.a.

Instead, he seems to be going the other direction.

It's kind of mind boggling.
 

Tim-E

Member
I'm also really baffled by Romney.

He was arguably a more centrist politician -- even a bit Left leaning -- when he was governor of Massachusetts and there was always the thought that once out of the primaries, that him and his campaign would pivot back to more centrist, more inclusive, big-tent politics that would woo independents.

He would have nothing to lose by going more centrist as he wouldn't lose those on the Left, those on the Right have no other choice, and those undecided Independents in the middle can now choose comfortably between 1 and 1.a.

Instead, he seems to be going the other direction.

It's kind of mind boggling.

He never did shake his etch-a-sketch. Instead he just grabbed the two nobs and turned them maniacally.
 
If I were running the Romney campaign, I would have shifted his ass back to the center as soon as it was clear that he was going to win the noms.

Then I would have touted his business experience in a positive light and started a campaign "The American Shareholder" or something along those lines that highlighted his experience being responsible for shareholders and investors as a CEO and then showing pictures of Americans saying [OLD WHITE LADY]:"I'm a shareholder" [WHITE FAMILY]:"I'm a shareholder" [TOKEN MINORITY]"I'm a shareholder". "We're shareholders of the American Dream" or something like that.

Play off of his strengths and actual differences between him and Obama. Face up to being a ruthless CEO-type and own it is a strength in the context of America as a whole.

I mean it would all be bullshit, but it would be genius because the Republicans need more inclusion not less if they want to win not just this year, but for decades to come as perceptions change (gay rights, immigration, etc), the population dynamics change, and so on.
 
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