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PoliGAF 2012 Community Thread |OT2| This thread title is now under military control

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I

insane0hflex

Member
I like it how Romney and his wife are so well coached by their lawyers to never ever say income tax. They deliberately avoid it on all fronts, basically by saying "all taxes" or just "taxes", but never "income tax".

Just as a question, did Obama and McCain show their income taxes in 08?
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
insane0hflex said:
I like it how Romney and his wife are so well coached by their lawyers to never ever say income tax. They deliberately avoid it on all fronts, basically by saying "all taxes" or just "taxes", but never "income tax".

Just as a question, did Obama and McCain show their income taxes in 08?
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We have Obama's record from 2000 to today. McCain I think we got 5 years.
 
CHEEZMO™

CHEEZMO™

Obsidian fan
Duffyside said:
Hahaha, I admit, I laughed out loud.
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...mney-isnt-releasing-his-tax-returns-part-563/

“Let’s say Mitt Romney released 100 years of tax returns tonight,” said Alex Castellanos, a Republican media consultant who advised Romney in 2008. ”What do you think the odds are that the Obama campaign would say, ‘Oh great Mitt. Thank you! Now we can put that behind us and move on to more substantive issues like entitlement reform!’ Zero.”

Added Castellanos: “I’d advise Mitt to release 10 years of tax returns when Obama releases 10 years of birth certificates.”
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T

thezerofire

Banned
I can't believe this is actually an ad here haha:

tOopy.png


oh god top post
 
C

Chumly

Member
It boggles my mind that with Ann Romney's MS that Mitt can be so against healthcare reform. Given that she has a terrible disease I dont understand that they can't show any empathy for other people going through the same thing. It must have been nice knowing that even with the disease she would have the best care, the best meds available and not even have to bat an eye at the cost. Meanwhile in the rest of America people are going bankrupt if they can get treatment at all.
 
P

Particle Physicist

between a quark and a baryon
gcubed said:
its what you think is reality. If i'm not mistaken Gallup daily tracking, rassmussen and purple strategies are using 2010 turnout numbers to base their 2012 results on.

For me it seems a little ... misguided to use mid term numbers to base your presidential election results on
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Have they always done that, or is this a new thing?
 
S

speculawyer

Member
Chumly said:
It boggles my mind that with Ann Romney's MS that Mitt can be so against healthcare reform. Given that she has a terrible disease I dont understand that they can't show any empathy for other people going through the same thing. It must have been nice knowing that even with the disease she would have the best care, the best meds available and not even have to bat an eye at the cost. Meanwhile in the rest of America people are going bankrupt if they can get treatment at all.
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But this is the dichotomy . . . Romneycare helped those people. But he has to disavow that to run in the crazy GOP "let the poor guy in a coma die" party.
 
M

Measley

Junior Member
S

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Chumly said:
It boggles my mind that with Ann Romney's MS that Mitt can be so against healthcare reform. Given that she has a terrible disease I dont understand that they can't show any empathy for other people going through the same thing. It must have been nice knowing that even with the disease she would have the best care, the best meds available and not even have to bat an eye at the cost. Meanwhile in the rest of America people are going bankrupt if they can get treatment at all.
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My mom has MS, if not for medicaid and medicare, she would likely be in a wheelchair.
 
empty vessel

empty vessel

Member
RDreamer said:
O'Brien takes Pawlenty to task about the $716 billion Medicare "cut". I feel like I should start to watch her show now. What they're trying to say in this "debate" is completely ridiculous and I'm glad someone's at least calling them on it.
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Republicans see this as a "cut" because it is, indeed, a "cut" to business interests. What it is not is a cut to the benefits that American citizens receive under the program. Republicans view the government as basically a spigot to siphon money to business interests. They think of Medicare as a program that subsidizes corporate health care businesses and the executives who run them. It's disgusting but true that Republicans are probably being genuine in seeing this as a cut to their constituents (corporate executives), but are obviously being extremy manipulative in their public discussion of it. Pawlenty should go to hell, in my opinion, for willfully deceiving Americans like this. And then he has the audacity to say that Romney would restore this money spigot to corporate business interests (his constituency), neglecting to mention that what he would cut is the benefits to American citizens!

I unfortunately think Soledad wasn't very effective in explaining that. Of course, you don't get a job as a pundit by being effective at explaining things.
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
O'brien's only mistake is she needs to put them on the spot with the benefits issue.

"According to the CBO, is there a cut to medicare benefits, yes or no?"

If they say "yes," you show that person how they're lying and state how it's a cut to costs of operating, not benefits.

Also, regarding Romney, someone in the Obama camp has to attack him for being a giant wimp on the issue.

"Romney is complaining that if he releases the returns the Democrats will attack him on it. If he can't hold up to scrutiny in tax returns and is afraid of criticism, how is he going to handle being criticized by a foreign leader? Is this the image we want to portray to the rest of the world? 'please don't criticise me, it hurts our feelings.' This is not a leader. Leaders don't hide from criticism."

Etc.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Soledad wasn't clear at all, and I'd imagine many people watched that and thought she was relying on legislative jargon to avoid admitting to a Medicare cut. That 716b comes out of Medicare, that's true. It does not come out of benefits though - in fact it's 716b from Medicare Advantage, a wasteful program that siphons money to private insurers whether a patient uses it or not.

And those exact savings are in Ryan's fucking budget. I have no idea how she fucked up this simple point
 
E

el retorno

Member
PhoenixDark said:
Soledad wasn't clear at all, and I'd imagine many people watched that and thought she was relying on legislative jargon to avoid admitting to a Medicare cut. That 716b comes out of Medicare, that's true. It does not come out of benefits though - in fact it's 716b from Medicare Advantage, a wasteful program that siphons money to private insurers whether a patient uses it or not.

And those exact savings are in Ryan's fucking budget. I have no idea how she fucked up this simple point
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Did you watch the whole thing? She says that at the very end.
 
R

RDreamer

Member
PhoenixDark said:
And those exact savings are in Ryan's fucking budget. I have no idea how she fucked up this simple point
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She did state that those were the exact same savings in Ryan's budget and that the house voted on those exact same savings many times.

She could be a lot more clear with this, but at least she's putting up a decent resistance and not letting them run all over her. Usually these "journalists" will push back with maybe a line or two and then completely drop it if the person they're interviewing just insists.
 
C

Chumly

Member
speculawyer said:
But this is the dichotomy . . . Romneycare helped those people. But he has to disavow that to run in the crazy GOP "let the poor guy in a coma die" party.
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Which is the sad part that he ran away from that. Now hes a republican whipping boy that will do whatever they want.

Suikoguy said:
My mom has MS, if not for medicaid and medicare, she would likely be in a wheelchair.
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I think most people with it and tons of other debilitating diseases need Medicaid and Medicare. Which is why its so depressing that republicans want to gut them. My dad has Parkinson's and the medical bills he has are absolutely through the roof. Thankfully we grew up with enough money to cover something like this but it makes me sick thinking about everyone that doesn't have that kind of money.



empty vessel said:
Republicans see this as a "cut" because it is, indeed, a "cut" to business interests. What it is not is a cut to the benefits that American citizens receive under the program. Republicans view the government as basically a spigot to siphon money to business interests. They think of Medicare as a program that subsidizes corporate health care businesses and the executives who run them. It's disgusting but true that Republicans are probably being genuine in seeing this as a cut to their constituents (corporate executives), but are obviously being extremy manipulative in their public discussion of it. Pawlenty should go to hell, in my opinion, for willfully deceiving Americans like this. And then he has the audacity to say that Romney would restore this money spigot to corporate business interests (his constituency), neglecting to mention that what he would cut is the benefits to American citizens!

I unfortunately think Soledad wasn't very effective in explaining that. Of course, you don't get a job as a pundit by being effective at explaining things.
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Pretty much. I don't think she came across very well either. I mean she made some points but it wasn't like he got schooled by any means.
 
R

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
Does anyone have a link or two to a good breakdown of how the $716bil of savings is achieved? I'm assuming part of that comes from closing the Medicare Part D Doughnut Hole?
 
empty vessel

empty vessel

Member
Chumly said:
Pretty much. I don't think she came across very well either. I mean she made some points but it wasn't like he got schooled by any means.
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Interviews are supremely unhelpful. Why not just have a segment where the proposed policies are explained? The views of politicians need not be elicited directly in an interview, but their views as expressed in non-"news" settings can be displayed and then analyzed independently. Tell me what they said on the floor of Congress or on some stump speech and then tell me, directly, what's factually wrong with it. I don't need to hear a person pretending to be a journalist on television interview a politician directly.
 
R

RustyNails

Member
WSJ/Boston Globe: Paul Ryan requested stimulus money in 2010.
In the letters, Ryan wrote, "I support the Energy Center of Wisconsin and its partners' grant application for the Recovery Act - Training Program Development for Commercial Building Equipment Technicians Building Operators, and Energy Commissioning Agents/Auditors. I would appreciate it if you and the appropriate DOE would ensure that it is given your prompt and full consideration, consistent with all laws and regulations."

The grant referred to was funded by the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 - the stimulus program which Ryan and other Republicans opposed.

In a paper statement on Thursday, Ryan said, "After having these letters called to my attention I checked into them, and they were treated as constituent service requests in the same way matters involving Social Security or Veterans Affairs are handled.

"This is why I didn't recall the letters earlier, he continued. "But they should have been handled differently, and I take responsibility for that. Regardless, it's clear that the Obama stimulus did nothing to stimulate the economy, and now the President is asking to do it all over again."

In an interview with CNN affiliate WCPO on Thursday, Ryan said, "I never asked for stimulus," but declined to comment on reports that he did, saying he had not read one such report raised by the interviewer.

He said on a Boston-area radio station in October 2010 that he is "not one of the people who votes for something then writes to the government to ask them to send us money."

"I did not request any stimulus money," he said. The station, WBZ, posted audio of Ryan's 2010 comments to its website on Thursday.

In several letters obtained by CNN from a Democratic source, Ryan wrote to Energy Secretary Steven Chu and Labor Secretary Hilda Solis "writing to express my support for" grant applications submitted by organizations including the Energy Center of Wisconsin.

Energy Center communications director Leslie Post told CNN that Ryan wrote letters on behalf of two projects in which the center was involved. The center received a total of $240,000 in grants primarily for a hybrid geothermal heating project. Post said Ryan did not write letters on behalf of a third project in which the center was involved but not the primary grant recipient.
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Paul Ryan is a two-faced hypocritical sack of lying shit. But did anyone else thought otherwise? Thought not. And WOW at that "not one of the people who votes for something then writes to the govt to ask for money". Just wow.
 
C

Chumly

Member
empty vessel said:
Interviews are supremely unhelpful. Why not just have a segment where the proposed policies are explained? The views of politicians need not be elicited directly in an interview, but their views as expressed in non-"news" settings can be displayed and then analyzed independently. Tell me what they said on the floor of Congress or on some stump speech and then tell me, directly, what's factually wrong with it. I don't need to hear a person pretending to be a journalist on television interview a politician directly.
Click to expand...

I think this would be great. I don't need to listen to see who can talk louder between the interviewer and the politician. Just tell us what the hell the bills do!
 
C

codhand

Member
empty vessel said:
Interviews are supremely unhelpful. Why not just have a segment where the proposed policies are explained? The views of politicians need not be elicited directly in an interview, but their views as expressed in non-"news" settings can be displayed and then analyzed independently. Tell me what they said on the floor of Congress or on some stump speech and then tell me, directly, what's factually wrong with it. I don't need to hear a person pretending to be a journalist on television interview a politician directly.
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This is what Halperin got in trouble for, basically saying, if an argument is bullshit, don't assign an equal value to it. But I swear you guys are describing a channel with lower ratings than Current. Jon Stewart made a lot of these points when he perma-sonned Tucker Carlson on Crossfire.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
reilo said:
Does anyone have a link or two to a good breakdown of how the $716bil of savings is achieved? I'm assuming part of that comes from closing the Medicare Part D Doughnut Hole?
Click to expand...

It's mainly taken from Medicare part C, ie Medicare Advantage. They effect medicare providers and insurance companies. Elderly people who have "regular" Medicare coverage (part A) already wind up paying some money to Part C, even if their plan does not have it. In short, the government pays insurance companies for coverage they are not providing to millions of people, since a small amount of seniors actually use Advantage.

The rest mainly comes from hospital reimbursement rates being lowered, which hospitals agreed on because the individual mandate will increase their patient levels
 
R

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
RDreamer said:
here you go
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Dax01 said:
.

Edit: Goddammit, Dreamer, I had that!
Click to expand...

PhoenixDark said:
It's mainly taken from Medicare part C, ie Medicare Advantage. They effect medicare providers and insurance companies. Elderly people who have "regular" Medicare coverage (part A) already wind up paying some money to Part C, even if their plan does not have it. In short, the government pays insurance companies for coverage they are not providing to millions of people, since a small amount of seniors actually use Advantage.

The rest mainly comes from hospital reimbursement rates being lowered, which hospitals agreed on because the individual mandate will increase their patient levels
Click to expand...
Thanks!
 
M

Marvie_3

Banned
RDreamer said:
O'Brien takes Pawlenty to task about the $716 billion Medicare "cut". I feel like I should start to watch her show now. What they're trying to say in this "debate" is completely ridiculous and I'm glad someone's at least calling them on it.
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Pawlenty is such a schmuck. So glad he's not governing this state anymore.
RustyNails said:
WSJ/Boston Globe: Paul Ryan requested stimulus money in 2010.

Paul Ryan is a two-faced hypocritical sack of lying shit. But did anyone else thought otherwise? Thought not. And WOW at that "not one of the people who votes for something then writes to the govt to ask for money". Just wow.
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:lol Awesome.
 
C

cartoon_soldier

Member
Measley said:
Game over.

I never thought that a Republican presidential candidate could get a worse pick than Sarah Palin, but holy shit. Ryan is like a never-ending disaster.

I'd be amazed if Obama doesn't run some ads on this.
Click to expand...

He has already denied that he ever requested funds. Let us see if this story actually gets any legs.

Also, anyone want to explain the reasoning behind no attack ads on Medicare/Ryan budget by the Obama campaign this week? Just surprised.
 
M

Measley

Junior Member
cartoon_soldier said:
He has already denied that he ever requested funds. Let us see if this story actually gets any legs.
Click to expand...

Its already on the AP, Rachel Maddow was talking about it tonight on her show, and I think CNN just picked up the story.

This is going to go nuclear.

What's hilarious is that Obama hasn't ran a new ad all week. He sat back and let the Romney/Ryan campaign self destruct all by itself.
 
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