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PoliGAF 2012 Community Thread |OT2| This thread title is now under military control

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A

Aaron Strife

Banned
To be fair, I expect a lot of Americans see Obama's move on gay marriage as pure flip-flop.

Flip-flops aren't always bad, necessarily. Romney's problem is that he flip-flops on everything if only to contradict Obama. You don't go from "I'm going to be better on gay rights than Ted Kennedy" to signing NOM's marriage pledge.
 
A

Al-ibn Kermit

Junior Member
Aaron Strife said:
To be fair, I expect a lot of Americans see Obama's move on gay marriage as pure flip-flop.

Flip-flops aren't always bad, necessarily. Romney's problem is that he flip-flops on everything if only to contradict Obama. You don't go from "I'm going to be better on gay rights than Ted Kennedy" to signing NOM's marriage pledge.
Click to expand...

It's opportunistic but Obama did not completely reverse his opinion. Romney flip-flops to both extremes.
 
B

Black Republican

Member
Aaron Strife said:
To be fair, I expect a lot of Americans see Obama's move on gay marriage as pure flip-flop.

Flip-flops aren't always bad, necessarily. Romney's problem is that he flip-flops on everything if only to contradict Obama. You don't go from "I'm going to be better on gay rights than Ted Kennedy" to signing NOM's marriage pledge.
Click to expand...
the average american refuses to believe a black man can be for gay rights
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
Black Republican said:
the average american refuses to believe a black man can be for gay rights
Click to expand...
I like how that whole thing played out.

Pundits: (wearing shit-eating grin) Will black voters abandon Obama in droves over his new gay marriage position, causing him to lose the presidency? Stay tuned for more insight from King Romney's campaign

Headline: Poll shows blacks now support gay marriage

(pundit heads explode)
 
L

Loudninja

Member
WaPo After Meeting With Romney Camp About Retraction: ‘We Are Very Confident In Our Reporting’
The Washington Post’s top editors just wrapped up a meeting with Romney officials to discuss the campaign’s request for a retraction of the paper’s story on Bain Capital’s outsourcing.

“We are very confident in our reporting,” Washington Post spokeswoman Kris Coratti told TPM after the meeting, adding that appointments with people concerned about coverage are common.
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http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entries/wapo-after-meeting-with-romney-camp-about-retraction
 
J

Jackson50

Member
Congress has reportedly reached a compromise on the student loan interest rate legislation and transportation bill. The interest rate reduction has been extended for another year. And the transportation bill expires in two years. The Keystone provision was omitted from the bill, and the Republicans also compromised on the ash regulation. It's unfortunate that passing the transportation bill proved this arduous. Our investment in infrastructure remains pathetically meager.


AP sources: Tentative deal on student loans, roads

By ALAN FRAM and JOAN LOWY
Associated Press

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Congressional leaders have reached tentative deals that would prevent a doubling of student loan interest rates and revamp the nation's transportation programs, congressional officials said Wednesday. If completed, the compromises would resolve two vexing issues on which lawmakers face weekend deadlines for action.

House and Senate leaders have tentatively agreed to a one-year extension of today's 3.4 percent interest rates for subsidized Stafford loans, said a congressional Republican who spoke on condition of anonymity to reveal the issue's status. The measure - which would affect 7.4 million students projected to get new loans starting July 1 - is the same package that Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., said Tuesday they had crafted between themselves.

At the same time, congressional leaders have tentatively agreed on a two-year bill to overhaul federal highway programs, Senate aides said. The government's authority to spend money on highways, bridges and transit systems expires Saturday, as does its ability to levy gasoline and diesel taxes. They spoke on condition of anonymity because the deal wasn't final.
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Aaron Strife said:
To be fair, I expect a lot of Americans see Obama's move on gay marriage as pure flip-flop.

Flip-flops aren't always bad, necessarily. Romney's problem is that he flip-flops on everything if only to contradict Obama. You don't go from "I'm going to be better on gay rights than Ted Kennedy" to signing NOM's marriage pledge.
Click to expand...
Romney was constantly devolving.
 
P

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
Remember, there's a difference between flip-flopping and growing with your constituents. The difference is that Romney's flip-flops come back-to-back, and often back-and-forth.

There's one thing when we're talking about changing your mind for political reasons, but it's another thing entirely when you just say whatever you think the people in front of you want to hear.

That's something I see as a marked difference between the two -- Democrats are disappointed in Obama for flipping on issues despite believing he still wants what is right and just; Republicans think Romney just says whatever will get him through the day.
 
S

Souldriver

Member
Amir0x said:
I just wish Obama would have a really amazing Romney flip flop ad series for tv in the fall.

I mean Romney now has so many sound bites where he is directly contradicting himself that it would be an epic fail to not have an insane "which Romney do we have today?" commercial series
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Was thinking the same the other day.

At this point, there must be the possibility to fill a 30 second ad where it's basically Romney giving 6+ different opinions on one specific issue.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Most people aren't familiar enough with Romney's policies (why would they, afterall) to know he's a flip flopper. That won't be an issue in the next couple months
 
P

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
Souldriver said:
Was thinking the same the other day.

At this point, there must be the possibility to fill a 30 second ad where it's basically Romney giving 6+ different opinions on one specific issue.
Click to expand...

Yes, to this and Amir0x's and to the other post saying it's being saved for October.

Question: we can see how badly Romney has it in the upcoming months, and we know the Obama campaign is loaded to the gills with potentially devastating attacks. What does Romney have, other than fortunate-for-him employment numbers, gas prices, and other things out of his control that we haven't already heard about? It's not like the GOP has been sitting on some mega scandal.

Romney will be firing blanks, even with unlimited campaign/PAC funds. We already know everything terrible about Obama because FOX has been telling us he's satan on earth for the past four years. Who can they possibly convince that they haven't already.

This gets tired, I know, but the daily narrative obscures the fact that anything less than a catastrophe makes it near impossible for Romney to win, close electorate notwithstanding.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
PantherLotus said:
Yes, to this and Amir0x's and to the other post saying it's being saved for October.

Question: we can see how badly Romney has it in the upcoming months, and we know the Obama campaign is loaded to the gills with potentially devastating attacks. What does Romney have, other than fortunate-for-him employment numbers, gas prices, and other things out of his control that we haven't already heard about? It's not like the GOP has been sitting on some mega scandal.

Romney will be firing blanks, even with unlimited campaign/PAC funds. We already know everything terrible about Obama because FOX has been telling us he's satan on earth for the past four years. Who can they possibly convince that they haven't already.

This gets tired, I know, but the daily narrative obscures the fact that anything less than a catastrophe makes it near impossible for Romney to win, close electorate notwithstanding.
Click to expand...
Even gas prices aren't in Romney's favor anymore. Whatever the likelihood of 2.50/gal by November is, it's already under 3 dollars in 18 states. Unemployment isn't getting significantly worse, either. We'll see what June's numbers look like I guess.

Btdubs, I hope SCOTUS upholds everything, mandate included. I want to see Scalia lose his shit again.
 
C

cartoon_soldier

Member
Aaron Strife said:
Even gas prices aren't in Romney's favor anymore. Whatever the likelihood of 2.50/gal by November is, it's already under 3 dollars in 18 states. Unemployment isn't getting significantly worse, either. We'll see what June's numbers look like I guess.
Click to expand...

It's all about the unemployment numbers. Those are Romney's saving grace, rest of the symptoms look bad for him true.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
PantherLotus said:
At what point do we acknowledge that the Romney camp is terrible?
Click to expand...

He was running such a great campaign, too. The gaffes of the recent weeks have been baffling. Previously, Romney's camp always had a swift response to Obama decisions. But the immigration thing really threw him off.

If healthcare gets shit canned tomorrow he should find his footing; immigration will no longer be The topic. But if it gets upheld, what can he do besides complain about the ruling and move back to the economy/ignoring immigration?
 
D

Diablos

Member
Well with Bernanke claiming unemployment will stay at or above 8% through 2012, that alone should be giving Romney a lot of confidence.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
PhoenixDark said:
He was running such a great campaign, too. The gaffes of the recent weeks have been baffling. Previously, Romney's camp always had a swift response to Obama decisions. But the immigration thing really threw him off.

If healthcare gets shit canned tomorrow he should find his footing; immigration will no longer be The topic. But if it gets upheld, what can he do besides complain about the ruling and move back to the economy/ignoring immigration?
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Romney will keep it an issue longer by trying to complain about it but not really agreeing or disagreeing with the Supreme Court's decision.

Ben Nelson: "Demise of Obamacare Would Lead to Single Payer"

“Many expect an activist Supreme Court will strike down part or all of health reform,” Nelson said in a prepared statement. “If they strike down the mandate, the Supreme Court will be paving the way to a single-payer system, or back to the old broken health care system — neither of which are good for Nebraskans.”
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Oh god, anything but that!
 
J

Jackson50

Member
Aaron Strife said:
Romney will keep it an issue longer by trying to complain about it but not really agreeing or disagreeing with the Supreme Court's decision.

Ben Nelson: "Demise of Obamacare Would Lead to Single Payer"

“Many expect an activist Supreme Court will strike down part or all of health reform,” Nelson said in a prepared statement. “If they strike down the mandate, the Supreme Court will be paving the way to a single-payer system, or back to the old broken health care system — neither of which are good for Nebraskans.”
Click to expand...
Oh god, anything but that!
Click to expand...
Terrible. One of those would be exceptionally salubrious for Nebraska. Unfortunately, I don't envisage an unfavorable decision producing a single-payer system.
 
T

The Librarian

Banned
Did someone say single-payer?
Governor Peter Shumlin says the state will push ahead with an overhaul of its health care system, no matter what the U.S. Supreme Court does with the federal Affordable Care Act.

Shumlin says he's worried that if the law is struck down in its entirety, the state could lose up to $400 million a year in federal funding it had been hoping to use to subsidize universal access to health care.

But he says Vermonters spend $5 billion a year on health care now, and the state must continue efforts to get costs under control.

Shumlin says he remains bound and determined to implement America's first universal, single-payer health care system.
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Dude is fucking determined. Shumlin for president etc., etc.
 
E

eznark

Banned
^ I hope he is insanely successful, then we can stop talking about the need for a national system.

Of course I am in a week long conference during the most entertaining week in months. They are actually taking the Holder vote to the floor! Too awesome. And Dems are going to pretend like it's racially motivated? Too awesomer!
 
J

Jackson50

Member
eznark said:
^ I hope he is insanely successful, then we can stop talking about the need for a national system.

Of course I am in a week long conference during the most entertaining week in months. They are actually taking the Holder vote to the floor! Too awesome. And Dems are going to pretend like it's racially motivated? Too awesomer!
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Preferably, we'd stop talking about the need for a national system by implementing a genuine national system
 
C

Chichikov

Member
So, I finally got around to read Scalia's dissent on SB 1070.
Holy shit, I know it's a dissenting opinion, and people allow themselves to say things there that they wouldn't say on the majority, but damn, that's one radical view he has about the united states.

eznark said:
Who needs a national system if the states can implement it themselves.
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Most states are certainly big enough to enact a single payer system, but insurance type programs are more efficient the bigger your insurance base.
 
F

Frank the Great

Banned
lol scalia. relies on originalist arguments when it supports his radical views (immigration) but ignores them when they go against his radical views (campaign finance, corporations=free speech, etc.)
 
M

makingmusic476

Member
Jackson50 said:
Preferably, we'd stop talking about the need for a national system by implementing a genuine national system
Click to expand...

I would hope that successful state systems would lead to growing support for single-payer globally, which would lead to a proper nationalized system instead of waiting for each state to get on board.

Southern states can shit all over statistics from Europe, but it'll be a lot harder to claim all your neighboring states are doing it wrong.
 
A

Averon

Member
http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entries/federal-judge-wouldnt-block-florida-voter-purge

Federal Judge Wouldn’t Block Florida Voter Purge

A federal judge blocked the Justice Department’s lawsuit to stop the state of Florida’s purge of its voter rolls, the Associated Press reports:

U.S. District Judge Robert Hinkle said there was nothing in federal voting laws that prevent the state from identifying voters who may not be U.S. citizens even if it is close to the upcoming Aug. 14 election.

Hinkle, a Clinton appointee, said that while questioning someone’s citizenship wasn’t a trivial matter, people “need to know we are running an honest election,” according to the AP. DOJ will review the written opinion when it is issued and decide whether to appeal.
Click to expand...

Has there been any documented case of mass vote fraud, or where a case of vote fraud actually determined an election in recent memory?
 
A

Allard

Member
makingmusic476 said:
I would hope that successful state systems would lead to growing support for single-payer globally, which would lead to a proper nationalized system instead of waiting for each state to get on board.

Southern states can shit all over statistics from Europe, but it'll be a lot harder to claim all your neighboring states are doing it wrong.
Click to expand...

Most of the big changes do happen first at the state level, because the idea of a 'nationalized' idea that hasn't even been tested in a climate like our own makes it hard for people on the fence to get excited for the idea. A Phased national healthcare system starting at the state level is what is needed, small enough to take the risk, big enough to be used as a platform for the national level, hell that's why the current healthcare law even got passed because it 'worked' in Massachusetts lol.
 
empty vessel

empty vessel

Member
eznark said:
Who needs a national system if the states can implement it themselves.
Click to expand...

States are revenue constrained and so they are not ideal health insurers. Coverage will be subject to the whims of the economy and anti-tax cries. The federal government has none of these problems, as it is not revenue constrained. Although people will no doubt continue to pretend it is. Still, a program at the federal level will be far more robust than any state program. Which I can only presume is exactly why you would prefer it happen at the state level.
 
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