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PoliGAF 2012 Community Thread |OT2| This thread title is now under military control
- Thread starter AlteredBeast
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^True, that's the one big differentiatior but I don't ever recall Charlie really bringing that up.
I understand that, but nothing Huntsman proposes is outside of the mainstream (except for embracing forced purchases, which the GOP used to like) Republican party. He's also a social conservative except that he would go for civil unions (which is not outside the mainstream, it's not party doctrine but it's also not fringe within the party).
He's a generic died in the wool Republican dude. And you like him. You like him a lot.
Self-reflection time, Charlie.
I understand that, but nothing Huntsman proposes is outside of the mainstream (except for embracing forced purchases, which the GOP used to like) Republican party. He's also a social conservative except that he would go for civil unions (which is not outside the mainstream, it's not party doctrine but it's also not fringe within the party).
He's a generic died in the wool Republican dude. And you like him. You like him a lot.
Self-reflection time, Charlie.
Salvor.Hardin
Banned
Oh for sure. His bs about America's harsh fiscal reality is a really worrying message to spread. Were such an administration to be elected, it would allow them to implement unnecessarily painful cuts, while making the electorate feel like it's the sour medicine they need.
CharlieDigital
Banned
Far from it, man
I can tell you this: I can respect and even like guys like him, Crist, and Frum.
He's also the lone Republican presidential candidate to acknowledge evolution.
So what you're saying is, if he gave away all his money to charity, you'd have a problem because he paid 0% in taxes? Not all Mormons tithe, just as not all 'regular Christians' tithe, even though the Bible requires it. I have a hard time knocking someone for it, even though I'm not into Church at all.
This is factually incorrect. The expectation of paying a full 10% tithe is highly important for active Mormons.
His two big "I'm here to save the GOP issues:"
Gay rights: Opposed to gay marriage but for civil unions, not exactly taboo in the Party, but definitely taboo at CPAC
Environment: He supports expanded offshore drilling, drilling in Alaska and the pipeline.
There is nothing different about him except he thought that branding himself a GOP "reformer" would get him press credit which would get him public attention. He was right on the first but that didn't translate to the second.
I didn't say there wasn't an expectation, I said that not all Mormon's tithe. That is factually correct.
You made a comparison to other Christians, saying the situation was equal. It's really not.
CharlieDigital
Banned
He also acknowledges global warming and evolution and the general idea that science and data should have a more prominent role in decision making and not ideology (whether he can execute this in practice is another story, but we can say that about any candidate).
On gay rights, I give the man daps (huge daps) for his stance given that he was the governor or Utah, home to one of the most conservative -- if not the most conservative -- voting bases in the US. And let's not forget: Obama himself favored civil unions heading into his presidency.
On drilling and domestic oil production, if you haven't noticed, domestic oil production has risen during the Obama administration.
As well, I've never placed myself in the camp that opposes domestic oil production; if you should know anything about me it's that I'm a pragmatist and not an idealist. I build software for a living and idealism only leads to late projects; pragmatism above all else.
I see in him the same qualities of pragmatism, solutions-oriented, evidence-backed approach to policy and governance, and an understanding that government and domestic policy needs to be more inclusive, not less.
Regardless, it's irrelevant to the argument that was being made against not allowing him to include his charitable contributions (be they tithes or not) in his tax burden.
Fair enough (and thanks for explaining it). Maybe your dream ticket of Huntsman - Bayh will rise in 2016.
(I have no idea if you like Bayh but he seems like the kind of guy you'd dig)
CharlieDigital
Banned
I feel that Huntsman is a severely misunderstood candidate and didn't get a fair shake by his party; he would have been a much more electable, much more moderate and centrist candidate than Romney.
There is no room for a candidate like him in the current party and that's a shame; guys like him are stuck between a rock and a hard place, but I applaud the fact that he was able to mostly stay centered throughout the entirety of the primaries when he knew that he had to move right to win his party's noms.
There is no room for a candidate like him in the current party and that's a shame; guys like him are stuck between a rock and a hard place, but I applaud the fact that he was able to mostly stay centered throughout the entirety of the primaries when he knew that he had to move right to win his party's noms.
A bitter old woman versus a slovenly, bombastic bully.
The 2016 campaign may be just what HD Radio needs to take off.
Re: Huntsman, the Obama campaign when balls out when he announced his candidacy. Check out all the Op-eds that showed up in Politico, Salon, etc. with asides about how Huntsman personally lied to them as Governor, gave up support, quit on a campaign promise, etc.
It was a rather hilarious week.
Re: Christie. Ask New Jersey-ites what they think.
It was a rather hilarious week.
Re: Christie. Ask New Jersey-ites what they think.
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
I am not sure that is exactly what he was doing. I was a branch president for a little while and a lot of people simply don't tithe even though they are active in most other sense of the word. The expectation is definitely there, though.
59% approval rating. So I guess they like him?
As of when?
Have you not read about the police situation in Trenton, for one thing?
Or the damn tunnel?
Apparently it's 54% as of the latest July QP poll. 59% was early Spring.
Apparently I care about those things as much as the people in New Jersey.
Taking a step back, it's hilarious that we think of 4-9% above 50 to be a great number.
Fuck me. Fuck us.
CharlieDigital
Banned
Chris Christie is a fuck-nut for cancelling the ARC tunnel project which was shovel-ready, would have brought a lot of jobs to the region, and also improved the transportation options into and out of NYC for decades and would have paid for itself over time.
He is also an ass-hat for giving out a huge tax credit for the Xanadu project (yeah, just what New Jersey needs -- another fucking mall. Oh, and it looks like a giant stack of shipping containers...) while cutting state funding for education and property tax relief for seniors (we have insane property tax rates here) while refusing to raise taxes on the wealthiest earners in the state....
Fuck Christie.
Edit: this abomination:
He is also an ass-hat for giving out a huge tax credit for the Xanadu project (yeah, just what New Jersey needs -- another fucking mall. Oh, and it looks like a giant stack of shipping containers...) while cutting state funding for education and property tax relief for seniors (we have insane property tax rates here) while refusing to raise taxes on the wealthiest earners in the state....
Fuck Christie.
Edit: this abomination:
I really don't think this is true -- or I'll assume you mean he would have appeared more moderate and centrist. If Romney had played to his record, he would have been significantly more moderate than the former governor of Utah, but obviously he and Huntsman made opposite decisions about presenting themselves in the primary, and it makes Huntsman look like the reasonable one of the two. In reality I suspect the two men are very similar in personal beliefs (unsurprisingly, since they've probably been to temple together more than once, being cousins and all). Maybe they flipped for it.
All the issues you mentioned are issues Romney has been on the right side of at some point in his career as well, no? Course, you could probably say that about any issue.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
The juxtaposition of the mall in the background with the environment in the foreground is everything I hate about modern American developmentChris Christie is a fuck-nut for cancelling the ARC tunnel project which was shovel-ready, would have brought a lot of jobs to the region, and also improved the transportation options into and out of NYC for decades and would have paid for itself over time.
He is also an ass-hat for giving out a huge tax credit for the Xanadu project (yeah, just what New Jersey needs -- another fucking mall. Oh, and it looks like a giant stack of shipping containers...) while cutting state funding for education and property tax relief for seniors (we have insane property tax rates here) while refusing to raise taxes on the wealthiest earners in the state....
Fuck Christie.
Edit: this abomination:
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
I think you're far too forgiving of Huntsman, Charlie. He only looks tolerable standing next to the clowns that occupied the rest of the stage.
Edit: that's true about Romney as well, I guess.
And those are the only two the Obama team was really worried about.
Edit: that's true about Romney as well, I guess.
And those are the only two the Obama team was really worried about.
CharlieDigital
Banned
They are very different in their beliefs, from what I've read, if you're talking about religion. Huntsman has stated that he's much more "spiritual" than "religious" and has adopted children who are Catholic and attend Catholic school. I think he has a fundamentally more pragmatic and more inclusive world view and it's reflected in his personal life and political stances.
Honestly have to disagree; Huntsman tracks very closely with Obama, IMO.
Y'know, thinking back to Matthews ripping Reince Priebus a new one: I almost feel bad for the guy. At the end, you could see defeat in his face. He looked like he wanted to cry. I don't doubt he's super conservative, but you can tell even he must go to bed every night extremely mad and frustrated with the growing number of loonies in his party and not knowing how to deal with them.
Funny how you post this here and Bulbo starts a thread in OT touting exactly the same link within minutes of each other. Almost like you were both reading the same... nevermind.
BTW: I agree with this guy on the "GOP outrage of the day,"
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
Taking a step back, it's hilarious that we think of 4-9% above 50 to be a great number.
Fuck me. Fuck us.
Unless they're putting on a brave face on in the wake of a disaster, the approval ratings for most politicians don't rise much higher than the 60s. 59% is markedly positive, 54% is still pretty solid. Clinton's average approval was 55%.
I listened to the convention much of last night. What a fucking embarassment of lies.
I'm sorry Conservative Gaf but listening to fuck after fuck roll on stage and tout the same horseshit about "didn't build it" and "700 billion medicare disaster" is something you ought to be ashamed of.
And Ann Romney - Bob Shiefer literally said it was one of the greatest political speeches he's ever heard. Tome for the retirement home. Even if you LOVE ann and Mitt, in what way was that even a political speech?
I heard one fuck tell people that Obama was "forcing middle class people to get health insurance even if they couldn't afford it" - which apart from being inaccurate COMPLETELY glosses over the fact that our country needs to be fucking ashamed of the fact that middle class people can't afford healthcare.
WHAT IN THE FUCK.
You know what they offered you last night? Thinly veiled racism and a dream of bootstraps. And fuck all else.
I'm sorry Conservative Gaf but listening to fuck after fuck roll on stage and tout the same horseshit about "didn't build it" and "700 billion medicare disaster" is something you ought to be ashamed of.
And Ann Romney - Bob Shiefer literally said it was one of the greatest political speeches he's ever heard. Tome for the retirement home. Even if you LOVE ann and Mitt, in what way was that even a political speech?
I heard one fuck tell people that Obama was "forcing middle class people to get health insurance even if they couldn't afford it" - which apart from being inaccurate COMPLETELY glosses over the fact that our country needs to be fucking ashamed of the fact that middle class people can't afford healthcare.
WHAT IN THE FUCK.
You know what they offered you last night? Thinly veiled racism and a dream of bootstraps. And fuck all else.
Frank the Great
Banned
i'm in NJ too and most people simply don't give a shit about these things. republicans are still enamored by him and independents see him as effective, without really knowing what's going on. most people i speak to hate him (because i know a lot of public employees and teachers) but people who are not directly affected by his bullshit totally buy the media's portrayal of him as a man who gets things done.
i still think he would lose to a strong democratic challenger though, regardless of his approval rating. there are so many democrats in this state, if a candidate can get them riled up he can't lose. booker would do this.
Not a chance. Reince Priebus is a true believer.
CharlieDigital
Banned
That's the problem. Jon Corzine was a terrible candidate.
That's an impressive collection of profanity you've got there. ;-)
Frank the Great
Banned
yeah there would definitely be no christie if there were no corzine. fucking corzine.
The Democratic one will be just as fluffy and possibly as useless, but at least it won't be entirely composed of fabrication.
PhoenixDark
Banned
I'm sure it will be In terms of spinning economic and job narratives
You're singing my song. The built environment in this country is depressing and putrid. Most exceptions are from areas that were built before the automobile.. when buildings and communities were built for, umm, humans instead of cars.
I could rant on this all damn day.
There's a difference between putting a positive spin on tepid news and deliberately lying even after every independent fact checker has called you out on it.
?
Shake Appeal
Member
I do think the Republicans have already proved their resilience this cycle by cottoning on quicker than the Democrats that nowadays you can just lie and lie and lie and never get called on it, and if you do it doesn't matter because of media fragmentation and the 24-hour news cycle. You can't get a message or any kind of consensus discourse to the quote-unquote American people anymore because each one of the American people is happily resident in a self-selected algorithmic bubble of bias.
Enjoying LieFest 2012 quite a bit so far, although Christie's speech was awful, and he should be ashamed that this was the best he could do to drumroll himself ahead of '16.
Enjoying LieFest 2012 quite a bit so far, although Christie's speech was awful, and he should be ashamed that this was the best he could do to drumroll himself ahead of '16.
CharlieDigital
Banned
I'm kind of OK with that.
Sirpopopop
Member
Chris Christie is a fuck-nut for cancelling the ARC tunnel project which was shovel-ready, would have brought a lot of jobs to the region, and also improved the transportation options into and out of NYC for decades and would have paid for itself over time.
He is also an ass-hat for giving out a huge tax credit for the Xanadu project (yeah, just what New Jersey needs -- another fucking mall. Oh, and it looks like a giant stack of shipping containers...) while cutting state funding for education and property tax relief for seniors (we have insane property tax rates here) while refusing to raise taxes on the wealthiest earners in the state....
Fuck Christie.
Edit: this abomination:
Xanadu is a boondoggle that wasn't just limited to Chris Christie. It's been around ever since Bruce Ratner made his intentions known back in 04/05 that he was leaving NJ for Brooklyn. It's probably been around since before that time period. It's the brain child of Penn State booster (I mean that in the worst way possible) & NJ Dem (who doesn't live in NJ) George Zoffinger.
If you want to attack Christie, you should attack him for the following:
- Scuttling the ARC without a viable backup plan.
- Halfway Prison House scandal.
- The boondoggle in Atlantic City known as the Revel.
- 9.8% unemployment, while touting a Jersey come back.
Also, I know PoliGAF likes to pump up democrats, but don't pump up NJ Democrats. They are a horrible incredibly corrupt political class outside of a few outliers (See: Ronald Rice & Reed Gusciora). Heck, in Southern NJ one could argue that there are few fundamental differences between the local Republicans & Democrats - they all take their marching orders from George Norcross (See: The failed attempt to merge Rutgers Camden & Rowan University), who is just a modern day version of Nucky Johnson.
The national success of Chicago politics has had the unintended consequence of empowering New Jersey.
We are all doomed.
They don't want to be "biased."
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