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PoliGAF 2012 Community Thread |OT2| This thread title is now under military control

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C

CharlieDigital

Banned
Sirpopopop said:
Xanadu is a boondoggle that wasn't just limited to Chris Christie. It's been around ever since Bruce Ratner made his intentions known back in 04/05 that he was leaving NJ for Brooklyn. It's probably been around since before that time period.
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It's true, but he's throwing good money after bad and once again Republicans prove that corporate welfare is OK, but actual people? Fuck them. Bootstraps, bitches!

It wouldn't piss me off so much without the context of everything else (as you've mentioned -- especially ARC) and the simultaneous cuts to education funding and property tax relief in addition to refusing to raise taxes on the wealthiest residents with the phony "theory" being that it'd force them to relocate. To where, exactly? PA? LMAO!
 
D

Dram

Member
South Carolina lawmaker admits positive response to racist email on voter ID bill

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/08/28/2972807/s-carolina-lawmaker-admits-positive.html

A South Carolina lawmaker and the author of a voter ID law considered discriminatory by the Justice Department testified in federal court Tuesday that, while crafting the bill, he had responded favorably to a friend's racist email in support of the measure.

State Rep. Alan Clemmons acknowledged his reaction in the second day of arguments before a three-judge panel of the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia over whether the law violates the 1965 Voting Rights Act.

The Justice Department blocked the 2011 voter ID law, which would force South Carolina residents to show one of five forms of photo identification in order to vote: a driver's license, a DMV-issued photo ID, a passport, military ID or a voter registration card with photo issued by the local elections office. The Voting Rights Act requires federal review of all election laws passed in states with a history of discriminating against black voters.

The Justice Department has asserted that South Carolina's law would disproportionately burden African-Americans, who it says are less likely than whites to have or be able to get the types of ID the law requires. In response, South Carolina is suing Attorney General Eric Holder. Lawyers for groups including the NAACP and the American Civil Liberties Union have joined the trial to rebut South Carolina's claims that its law is colorblind.

Garrard Beeney, who represented the civil rights groups, presented emails sent to and from Clemmons' personal account between 2009 and 2011, when he was working on the law. One, from a man named Ed Koziol, used racially charged rhetoric to denounce the idea that poor, black voters might lack transportation or other resources necessary to obtain photo ID. If the Legislature offered a reward for identification cards, "it would be like a swarm of bees going after a watermelon," Koziol wrote.

Beeney asked Clemmons how he had replied to this email. Clemmons hesitated a moment before answering, "It was a poorly considered response when I said, 'Amen, Ed, thank you for your support.'"

Beeney also contended that Clemmons, a Republican, wrote the law to suppress Democratic votes. Blacks in South Carolina typically vote Democratic. Beeney asked Clemmons whether he remembered distributing packets of peanuts with cards that read "Stop Obama's nutty agenda and support voter ID."

Clemmons said he did not, though Beeney said he had testified in June that he did.

South Carolina's lawyers sought to prove that the ID law represented a compromise between Democrats and Republicans.
Lt. Gov. Glenn McConnell, who was the top-ranked member of the state Senate until earlier this year, testified that the law emerged after a series of conference committees and negotiations spanning multiple legislative sessions. When he had the opportunity to appoint senators to the conference committees that worked on the bill, he picked both Democrats and Republicans, he said.

But under questioning from Beeney, McConnell said he believed the law would have been more in compliance with the Voting Rights Act if it had included provisions to make voting easier, such as an early voting period. The Senate passed a voter ID bill that included such provisions, but Clemmons and other members of the House opposed it and would not compromise, McConnell said.
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M

Manos: The Hans of Fate

Banned
CharlieDigital said:
Chris Christie is a fuck-nut for cancelling the ARC tunnel project which was shovel-ready, would have brought a lot of jobs to the region, and also improved the transportation options into and out of NYC for decades and would have paid for itself over time.

He is also an ass-hat for giving out a huge tax credit for the Xanadu project (yeah, just what New Jersey needs -- another fucking mall. Oh, and it looks like a giant stack of shipping containers...) while cutting state funding for education and property tax relief for seniors (we have insane property tax rates here) while refusing to raise taxes on the wealthiest earners in the state....

Fuck Christie.

Edit: this abomination:

XANADU-articleLarge.jpg
Click to expand...

That's even ignoring his atrocious record on the second amendment and continuing to allow a system that allows only the rich and connected to get carry permits, requires signed permission from the govmermemt to even look to buy a gun, and harassment of those passing through the state traveling with lawfully owned firearms, including rerouted travelers.
 
K

Kosmo

Banned
CharlieDigital said:
It's true, but he's throwing good money after bad and once again Republicans prove that corporate welfare is OK, but actual people? Fuck them. Bootstraps, bitches!
Click to expand...

Why has this become such a big LibGAF meme?

It wouldn't piss me off so much without the context of everything else (as you've mentioned -- especially ARC) and the simultaneous cuts to education funding and property tax relief in addition to refusing to raise taxes on the wealthiest residents with the phony "theory" being that it'd force them to relocate. To where, exactly? PA? LMAO!
Click to expand...

Funny you should laugh:

From 2000 to 2005, the largest net outflow of New Jersey taxpayers was to Florida (124,584 people), Pennsylvania (42,459 people) and North Carolina (29,803 people), their report found.

It found the state had a positive net inflow of taxpayers from New York (148,538 people).
Click to expand...
 
C

CharlieDigital

Banned
Kosmo said:
Funny you should laugh:
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You've missed my point -- and I classified it very clearly. The wealthy will not move to PA because there is a reason why they are in NJ and not NYC. There's a reason why there's a show called The Real Housewives of New Jersey and no counterpart for Pennsylvania.

If you don't understand this, then you don't understand why Christie's phony threat was exactly that: completely and utterly without merit.

Not only that, you don't understand your own data. There's a reason why there is an outflow of New Jersey residents: because the property taxes are high and it doesn't make sense for seniors to stay here. Part of what Christie refused to do was to keep paying for property tax relief for seniors by increasing the tax rate on the wealthiest residents under the threat of "they'll leave the state".

No. The wealthiest residents have a very clear reason to be in New Jersey and that's proximity to NYC while still having land, excellent infrastructure, mass transit options into and out of the city, excellent schools, and so on. These folks are not going to PA if you raise their taxes 2%.
 
R

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
Kosmo said:
Why has this become such a big LibGAF meme?
Click to expand...

It's quite a common phrase to be uttered by conservatives the past few years. I have heard it enough times to make it noteworthy, including on my trip to Texas a couple of years ago.

You will also hear it at the RNC during several speeches.
 
S

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
CharlieDigital said:
You've missed my point -- and I classified it very clearly. The wealthy will not move to PA because there is a reason why they are in NJ and not NYC. There's a reason why there's a show called The Real Housewives of New Jersey and no counterpart for Pennsylvania.

If you don't understand this, then you don't understand why Christie's phony threat was exactly that: completely and utterly without merit.

Not only that, you don't understand your own data. There's a reason why there is an outflow of New Jersey residents: because the property taxes are high and it doesn't make sense for seniors to stay here. Part of what Christie refused to do was to keep paying for property tax relief for seniors by increasing the tax rate on the wealthiest residents under the threat of "they'll leave the state".
No. The wealthiest residents have a very clear reason to be in New Jersey and that's proximity to NYC while still having land, excellent infrastructure, mass transit options into and out of the city, excellent schools, and so on. These folks are not going to PA if you raise their taxes 2%.
Click to expand...

My retired in-laws moved away basically as soon as all their kids and relatives kids were out of schools. Property taxes pay for "good" schools and are HORRIFIC. Old people leave as soon as or if they can afford to do so. Shit weather, shit roads, shit everything except schools.
 
C

CharlieDigital

Banned
el retorno de los sapos said:
.09% of their population a year? Thats more than made up for by the inflow of New Yorkers. Are you sure they're all even moving for tax reasons?
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They are largely moving for tax reasons, guaranteed, but if you look at those numbers, I would bet that a large majority are also seniors who have no use for staying in NJ.

You stay in NJ even though the taxes are high because this is where the jobs are, because we have some of the highest rates of academic achievement in the country, and because of the proximity to two major metropolitan areas.

But if you look at my point, Christie refused to raise taxes on the wealthiest residents to keep a program that offered increased property tax relief for seniors, very much driving people out of the state by making it ever more expensive for the middle and working class to live here.

One of the reasons why the ARC cancellation pisses me off so much is because it was completely ideological and shortsighted. In the long term, improving access and transit to NYC is a huge boon to the state by enticing NY residents to move to NJ instead by offering reasonable transit options. And we want those residents and their tax dollars. This is not to mention the ancillary benefits of easing congestion in the major thoroughfares in the state. Not only that, it also entices companies to set up shop in NJ as well for the very same reasons. It would have been a huge win for the state.

Stinkles said:
My retired in-laws moved away basically as soon as all their kids and relatives kids were out of schools. Property taxes pay for "good" schools and are HORRIFIC. Old people leave as soon as or if they can afford to do so. Shit weather, shit roads, shit everything except schools.
Click to expand...

While this may be true in municipalities, the state-owned, state-maintained infrastructure is fantastic. I can literally tell the difference when I drive across a state line with PA or NY state just by road noise and feel from my tires alone. The Parkway and especially the Turnpike are fantastic.
 
E

el retorno

Member
CharlieDigital said:
They are largely moving for tax reasons, guaranteed, but if you look at those numbers, I would bet that a large majority are also seniors who have no use for staying in NJ.

You stay in NJ even though the taxes are high because this is where the jobs are, because we have some of the highest rates of academic achievement in the country, and because of the proximity to two major metropolitan areas.

But if you look at my point, Christie refused to raise taxes on the wealthiest residents to keep a program that offered increased property tax relief for seniors, very much driving people out of the state by making it ever more expensive for the middle and working class to live here.
Click to expand...

Ok that makes a bit of sense. I forget seniors a lot of the time.
 
M

Manos: The Hans of Fate

Banned
CharlieDigital said:
You've missed my point -- and I classified it very clearly. The wealthy will not move to PA because there is a reason why they are in NJ and not NYC. There's a reason why there's a show called The Real Housewives of New Jersey and no counterpart
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Bullshit. PA has tons of quality places. You ever hear of the Main Line?

NJ highways are also underlite and crappier.
 
C

CharlieDigital

Banned
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
Bullshit. PA has tons of quality places. You ever hear of the Main Line?
Click to expand...

You've missed my point: the rich do not want to live in PA. Raising taxes on the rich by 1-2% will not magically cause them to relocate to PA because they would not move to PA even though the property taxes are lower, the income tax is lower, housing is cheaper, and everything is cheaper. They can move right now and save tons of money every year on property taxes! But they won't because it's a huge lifestyle tradeoff. Christie conjured up a fake reason to not raise taxes on the rich to pay for programs that would have offered tax relief to the middle and working class.

millionaires-nj.jpg

http://www.cnbc.com/id/45047643/US_States_With_the_Most_Millionaires_2011?slide=9

median-income.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_income

Don't care how many "quality places" PA has, if you're rich, there is no reason to live there.

Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
NJ highways are also underlite and crappier.
Click to expand...

Get real, bro. PA has some of the shittiest state-managed infrastructure in the tri-state area.
 
M

Manos: The Hans of Fate

Banned
el retorno de los sapos said:
You guys have to buy your booze from the government though no?
Click to expand...

Traditionally but it has been changing. I know Wegmans have been able to start selling beer.

CharlieDigital said:
You've missed my point: the rich do not want to live

Don't care how many "quality places" PA has, if you're rich, there is no reason to live there.
Click to expand...
No one said they were intelligent.



Get real, bro. PA has some of the shittiest state-managed infrastructure in the tri-state area.
Click to expand...
Then why does Jersey have more blown out tires on it's roads on the Turnpike than PAs? I drive back and forth each day and the area with more accidents and traffic delays are NJ.

Also try driving on McCarter Highway in Newark and say NJ has quality roads with a straight face.
 
E

el retorno

Member
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
Traditionally but it has been changing. I know Wegmans have been able to start selling beer.
Click to expand...

I went up there recently and went into a Wawa to buy beer and was told I had to go to a different store. Thats what small government republicans need to be fighting against.

I love Philly but that's a borderline deal breaker. Also I hate all of your sports teams.
 
C

CharlieDigital

Banned
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
No one said they were intelligent.

Then why does Jersey have more blown out tires on it's roads on the Turnpike than PAs? I drive back and forth each day and the area with more accidents and traffic delays are NJ.

Also try driving on McCarter Highway in Newark and say NJ has quality roads with a straight face.
Click to expand...

I'm not gonna get into opinion here so I'll just let the facts do the talking. More millionaires, higher median income, closer to NYC, ocean-front property and beaches, better education, etc.

In no way, shape, or form could I consider PA an equal to NJ in any aspect of quality of life unless you're poverty level. Then yeah, lower cost of living in PA is a win.

nj-education.jpg
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
I'm lttp on the Huntsman talk, but I gotta call bullshit. Economically he's closer to a supply sider in principles; he agreed with the Ryan budget. Liberals fall in love with him because he's another limp wrist politician championing civility and science. Stop being so superficial and look at the man's political views.

Would I rather have 40 Huntsmans than 40 Bachmans? Sure. But let's not act like he's not a small government hawk
 
C

CharlieDigital

Banned
PhoenixDark said:
I'm lttp on the Huntsman talk, but I gotta call bullshit. Economically he's closer to a supply sider in principles; he agreed with the Ryan budget. Liberals fall in love with him because he's another limp wrist politician championing civility and science. Stop being so superficial and look at the man's political views.

Would I rather have 40 Huntsmans than 40 Bachmans? Sure. But let's not act like he's not a small government hawk
Click to expand...

Huntsman also strongly embraced Simpson-Bowles, which I was for and still like -- I'm open to experimenting on the economics side. But like I've said, it goes beyond that. His views on science, the environment, politics of inclusion, etc. Anyone that wants to label him in the same vein as guys like Romney, Paul, et al. is not looking beyond a few talking points from both the left and the right. He's a smart guy, pragmatic, experienced in diplomacy in Asia, holds moderate-liberal views on social issues, and crossed party lines to work for the Obama administration and serve his country when he knew it could hurt his creds with his own party.
 
D

Dram

Member
Ben Quayle, son of former Vice President Dan Quayle, loses election

http://www.examiner.com/article/ben-quayle-son-of-former-vice-president-dan-quayle-loses-election

Despite strong endorsements from Senator John McCain, former U.S. Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice, and Jon Kyl, Quayle is out. The election gave only 47% of the votes to Ben Quayle and 53% to competitor David Schweikert.

Quayle made headlines two years ago when he was behind a campaign ad that accused President Barack Obama of being the worst president in history. In 2012, Quayle was back in the headlines after denied that he was in any way involved with a congressional trip to Israel in which a congressman, Rep. Kevin Yoder, skinny-dipped in the Sea of Galilee.
Click to expand...
 
L

Loudninja

Member
Ouch!
Federal Judge Blocks, Skewers Florida’s Third-Party Voter Registration Restrictions
A federal judge on Thursday blocked a controversial Florida law signed by Gov. Rick Scott that sharply curtailed third-party groups’ ability to register voters and forced many of them to discontinue their voter-registration drives.

In a 27-page ruling, U.S. District Judge Robert L. Hinkle said there was little justification for a “harsh and impractical” 48-hour deadline for organizations to deliver applications to a voter-registration offices. Granting a preliminary injunction, Hinkle said such restrictions “effectively prohibit an organization from mailing applications in” and “impose burdensome record-keeping and reporting requirements that serve little if any purpose.”

“The short deadline, coupled with substantial penalties for noncompliance, make voter-registration drives a risky business,” Hinkle wrote. “If the goal is to discourage voter-registration drives and thus also to make it harder for new voters to register, the 48-hour deadline may succeed. But if the goal is to further the state’s legitimate interests without unduly burdening the rights of voters and voter registration organizations, 48 hours is a bad choice.”

Hinkle said the statute and rules regarding third-party voter registration were “not well crafted” and “virtually unintelligible, close to the point, if not past the point, at which a statute — especially one that regulates First Amendment rights and is accompanied by substantial penalties — becomes void for vagueness.”
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http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsme...ird_party_voter_registration_restrictions.php
 
E

el retorno

Member
gcubed said:
you gotta take the good with the bad when posting a link that includes just about any person who drove through New Jersey as a famous person from Jersey
Click to expand...

I'm just really partial to Bruce.

Loudninja said:
Ouch!
Federal Judge Blocks, Skewers Florida’s Third-Party Voter Registration Restrictions

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsme...ird_party_voter_registration_restrictions.php
Click to expand...

Thats a really bad use of "third party". It makes it sounds like its the Libertarian party and green party and not just non-party affiliated groups
 
B

Byakuya769

Member
What follows doesn't pertain to CharlieDigital, as he legitimately likes Huntsman's platform. The Left's love affair with Huntsman is a fitting portrayal of why the Democratic party is so weak. Huntsman's policy prescriptions are not centrist by any metric outside of "oh, he's okay with Civil Unions!" The guy is selling the same bullshit that other contemporary Republicans are, he just wraps it up in a package saying "science is awesome!" The focus on pet issues and superficial evaluations is what allows national Democrats to be Eisenhower Republicans. You see the exact same thing happening in Liberal punditry often: Paul Ryan's seriousness and Jeb Bush's "rational centrism." All these clowns harp about "the middle" and "bi-partisanship" but then take centrist policies and call them hyper-partisan because their party, who PUBLICLY stated that their strategy was to try and force Obama's policy initiatives to fail, voted against it in lock-step.

Well keep falling for that bullshit. But don't be surprised at the results being something you abhor.
 
M

Manmademan

Member
CharlieDigital said:
In no way, shape, or form could I consider PA an equal to NJ in any aspect of quality ofof life unless you're poverty level. Then yeah, lower cost of living in PA is a win.
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It depends on where you are, really. PA is more diverse.

I've lived and worked in both states. I prefer PA (was born here, soft spot for Philly) but the two states are pretty different. Central and northern PA are extremely rural, being farm and former coal mining regions, Appalachia, etc. These areas are ridiculously, depressingly poor since that industry died.

On the other hand, the Philly burbs along the main line (and some areas further south, like Swarthmore) have neighborhoods with higher median incomes than Beverly hills- and not because of proximity to new York.

It's often said PA is more like a collection of smaller states that have very little in common.
 
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