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PoliGAF 2012 |OT3| If it's not a legitimate OT the mods have ways to shut it down

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H

Hobbestetrician

Member
I really wish I could ignore all this stuff or get it out of my head for a few weeks. It has seriously been ruining many days for me the past month or so. I know it's my fault but I just can't get it out of my head for prolonged periods.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Aaron Strife said:
Well, none of the county supervisors were willing to go through with Rick Scott's nonsense anyway, but yeah, Democrats will benefit greatly from that.

Obama's winning with independents in Florida by 51-39. If that holds up I can't see how he loses. His approval rating is 47-50.
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Is that from the new PPP poll? If so how is he only up 1 overall
 
J

Jackson50

Member
PantherLotus said:
One last note on the Eastwood thing before it gets swept under the rug: it's exactly the second that I can think of in which Romney has kinda thrown a hail mary and/or taken an unnecessary risk which indicates he thinks he needs to do so to win.

The first was Paul Ryan, the second was Clint Eastwood taking up 25% of the ONE SINGLE HOUR Romney got to officially introduce himself to the nation. There have been a bunch of other risks, of course (like not releasing his taxes) that otherwise look like mitigated bets. But these two in particular looks like he's worried.

Hey, at least we're not talking about his taxes!
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Eastwood's appearance wasn't necessarily a Hail Mary. Rather, it seemed a safe bet to capitalize on the appeal of a legitimate cultural icon. Republicans are routinely ignored by celebrities, but Clint Eastwood presented an opportunity to generate positive publicity. Really, I doubt anyone rejects an endorsement from Clint Eastwood. But it failed spectacularly. I agree with your premise, though. Unless the economy craters unexpectedly, Romney's already maximized its effect. Only, Obama retains a modest advantage. Thus, he needs a boost to propel him over the hump. I think he's aware of this problem.
 
P

pigeon

Banned
Averon said:
Yeah. The numbers at 538 just looks nasty (to put it mildly) for Mitt. And this is after the RNC, too.
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Well, remember that those numbers are calculated on the theory that a four-point convention bounce would be par for both sides -- so Mitt is suffering currently from his low bounce, on the assumption that it's bad news for him, but if Obama doesn't produce a four-point bounce they'll drift right back. Of cours, they'll only be drifting back to the comfort of 70%.
 
C

Clevinger

Member
So, guys, if things don't move far enough in Romney's direction in the next month, how much of his own wealth do you think he'll be donating to his campaign? My money's on at least $25 mil.

Or, alternatively, he might donate a large sum to various SuperPACs and we wouldn't find out until after the election, if ever.
 
S

speculawyer

Member
Measley said:
Who would you say is the bigger asshole? D'Souza or Ron Christie?
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D'Souza. He is just a huge asshole with all sorts of stupid conspiracy theories.


Ron Christie is just a dumb follower. And I sometimes feel sorry for him since he seems to have a lazy eye. And he sounds like Dave Chappelle doing his square white guy voice.


dead souls said:
That was laughable. Christie's definitely an idiot, but D'Souza just radiates hate.
Click to expand...

Yeah, he has got quite the angry-man complex.
 
N

NathanMcMahon

Banned
Jooney said:
I love how in that Bill Maher interview, Dinesh asserts that because the PPACA didn't receive a single republican vote, it's evident that Obama didn't court republican ideas. What?

It takes a bizarre mind to reach that conclusion, rather than say, that the repubs wanted to stonewall any achievement by the President.
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It was an interesting interview but Maher undermined the entire thing by pulling his personal vendetta against Dinesh out and whacking him over the head with it.
 
M

makingmusic476

Member
B

Black Mamba

Member
I just read Greed and Debt: The True Story of Mitt Romney and Bain Capital From Rolling Stone.

Pretty vicious article on Romney, I must say. Some excerpts

By making debt the centerpiece of his campaign, Romney was making a calculated bluff of historic dimensions – placing a massive all-in bet on the rank incompetence of the American press corps. The result has been a brilliant comedy: A man makes a $250 million fortune loading up companies with debt and then extracting million-dollar fees from those same companies, in exchange for the generous service of telling them who needs to be fired in order to finance the debt payments he saddled them with in the first place. That same man then runs for president riding an image of children roasting on flames of debt, choosing as his running mate perhaps the only politician in America more pompous and self-righteous on the subject of the evils of borrowed money than the candidate himself. If Romney pulls off this whopper, you'll have to tip your hat to him: No one in history has ever successfully run for president riding this big of a lie. It's almost enough to make you think he really is qualified for the White House.
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To recap: Romney, who has compared the devilish federal debt to a "nightmare" home mortgage that is "adjustable, no-money down and assigned to our children," took over Ampad with essentially no money down, saddled the firm with a nightmare debt and assigned the crushing interest payments not to Bain but to the children of Ampad's workers, who would be left holding the note long after Romney fled the scene. The mortgage analogy is so obvious, in fact, that even Romney himself has made it. He once described Bain's debt-fueled strategy as "using the equivalent of a mortgage to leverage up our investment."
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But here's the interesting twist: Romney made the Bealls-Palais deal just as the federal government was launching charges of massive manipulation and insider trading against Milken and his firm, Drexel Burnham Lambert. After what must have been a lengthy and agonizing period of moral soul-searching, however, Romney decided not to kill the deal, despite its shady financing. "We did not say, 'Oh, my goodness, Drexel has been accused of something, not been found guilty,' " Romney told reporters years after the deal. "Should we basically stop the transaction and blow the whole thing up?"

In an even more incredible disregard for basic morality, Romney forged ahead with the deal even though Milken's case was being heard by a federal district judge named Milton Pollack, whose wife, Moselle, happened to be the chairwoman of none other than Palais Royal. In short, one of Romney's first takeover deals was financed by dirty money – and one of the corporate chiefs about to receive a big payout from Bain was married to the judge hearing the case. Although the SEC took no formal action, it issued a sharp criticism, complaining that Romney was allowing Milken's money to have a possible influence over "the administration of justice."
Click to expand...

Romney, on the other hand, is a perfect representative of one side of the ominous cultural divide that will define the next generation, not just here in America but all over the world. Forget about the Southern strategy, blue versus red, swing states and swing voters – all of those political clichés are quaint relics of a less threatening era that is now part of our past, or soon will be. The next conflict defining us all is much more unnerving.

That conflict will be between people who live somewhere, and people who live nowhere. It will be between people who consider themselves citizens of actual countries, to which they have patriotic allegiance, and people to whom nations are meaningless, who live in a stateless global archipelago of privilege – a collection of private schools, tax havens and gated residential communities with little or no connection to the outside world.
Click to expand...
 
C

cartoon_soldier

Member
B

Black Mamba

Member
cartoon_soldier said:
And also completely ignored by MSM
Click to expand...

I just wish people better understood how Mitt made most of his money. Most think of him like an entrepreneur and it's a load of crap.

I think the complete lack of proper house races polling renders most models unusable to determine exactly what the chances are.
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I'm only guessing here, but I imagine it would be based on the presidential polling + economic data or something.

I can't imagine house polling being even close to accurate unless it's a landslide situation.
 
N

NullPointer

Member
Romney, on the other hand, is a perfect representative of one side of the ominous cultural divide that will define the next generation, not just here in America but all over the world. Forget about the Southern strategy, blue versus red, swing states and swing voters – all of those political clichés are quaint relics of a less threatening era that is now part of our past, or soon will be. The next conflict defining us all is much more unnerving.

That conflict will be between people who live somewhere, and people who live nowhere. It will be between people who consider themselves citizens of actual countries, to which they have patriotic allegiance, and people to whom nations are meaningless, who live in a stateless global archipelago of privilege – a collection of private schools, tax havens and gated residential communities with little or no connection to the outside world.
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Well... shit.
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
NullPointer said:
Well... shit.
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Yeah, this is something I didn't notice outside my subconcious but it rings so true in retrospect.

Listen to Mitt Romney speak, and see if you can notice what's missing. This is a man who grew up in Michigan, went to college in California, walked door to door through the streets of southern France as a missionary and was a governor of Massachusetts, the home of perhaps the most instantly recognizable, heavily accented English this side of Edinburgh. Yet not a trace of any of these places is detectable in Romney's diction. None of the people in any of those places bled in and left a mark on the man.

Romney is a man from nowhere.
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You bastard! I was going to post this, lol.
Click to expand...

Maybe it's worth a new thread? She's all yours!
 
W

War Peaceman

You're a big guy.
That accent point is pretty weak - some people just don't speak the accent of the region they are from. I know born and raised Yorkshiremen who speak in mostly neutral English and born and raised Londoners without London accents.

I don't disagree with the main point though. That part just struck me as having reached a (valid) conclusion and then trying to tailor more evidence to suit that.
 
T

TacticalFox88

Banned
PhoenixDark said:
Princeton Election Consortium is predicting dems have a 69% chance at taking the house
http://election.princeton.edu/2012/08/30/house-outlook-2012-take-1/
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LOL

You dumbocraps actually think you gonna get it?

Ain’t no dimocrat gon be left after we get a good Christian man like Romney back in the *WHITE* house to fume agate

Gon add amendment to the constitution to out law foreigner marks cysts from ever been in control agin

You socalledscientists aint not gon teach my kids there monkeys and there ain’t no god no more, that for damn sure

limbah an beck would set you straight
Click to expand...

I weep for humanity
 
F

Farmboy

Member
Jackson50 said:
Eastwood's appearance wasn't necessarily a Hail Mary. Rather, it seemed a safe bet to capitalize on the appeal of a legitimate cultural icon. Republicans are routinely ignored by celebrities, but Clint Eastwood presented an opportunity to generate positive publicity. Really, I doubt anyone rejects an endorsement from Clint Eastwood. But it failed spectacularly. I agree with your premise, though. Unless the economy craters unexpectedly, Romney's already maximized its effect. Only, Obama retains a modest advantage. Thus, he needs a boost to propel him over the hump. I think he's aware of this problem.
Click to expand...

I agree, it must have looked like a pretty safe bet on paper, not at all like a Hail Mary. And Romney desperately needed some mainstream appeal as well, as most of the names on display, even would-be 'GOP superstars' like Rubio, have little meaning to people outside of their home state who don't already follow politics (Condi probably being the big exception). Eastwood, however, has plenty of crossover appeal: even Dems like(d) him. He also has plenty of experience in the limelight, so it seemed unlikely he'd screw things up.

Of course, it backfired terribly... to the point that there must now be plenty of wingnuts who honestly believe Eastwood to be secretly in the tank for Obama. He did do that 'pro-Obama' Super Bowl ad, after all...
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Haha, this is actually a good point:

The Daily Mail said:
Would be fun to see Paul Ryan try to sell billionaires on the idea their tax cuts will be given in vouchers that lose value every year
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Also, re: Taibbi. Here's another portion of the article that blows my mind:

Here's how Romney would go about "liberating" a company: A private equity firm like Bain typically seeks out floundering businesses with good cash flows. It then puts down a relatively small amount of its own money and runs to a big bank like Goldman Sachs or Citigroup for the rest of the financing. (Most leveraged buyouts are financed with 60 to 90 percent borrowed cash.) The takeover firm then uses that borrowed money to buy a controlling stake in the target company, either with or without its consent. When an LBO is done without the consent of the target, it's called a hostile takeover; such thrilling acts of corporate piracy were made legend in the Eighties, most notably the 1988 attack by notorious corporate raiders Kohlberg Kravis Roberts against RJR Nabisco, a deal memorialized in the book Barbarians at the Gate.

Romney and Bain avoided the hostile approach, preferring to secure the cooperation of their takeover targets by buying off a company's management with lucrative bonuses. Once management is on board, the rest is just math. So if the target company is worth $500 million, Bain might put down $20 million of its own cash, then borrow $350 million from an investment bank to take over a controlling stake.

But here's the catch. When Bain borrows all of that money from the bank, it's the target company that ends up on the hook for all of the debt.

Now your troubled firm – let's say you make tricycles in Alabama – has been taken over by a bunch of slick Wall Street dudes who kicked in as little as five percent as a down payment. So in addition to whatever problems you had before, Tricycle Inc. now owes Goldman or Citigroup $350 million. With all that new debt service to pay, the company's bottom line is suddenly untenable: You almost have to start firing people immediately just to get your costs down to a manageable level.

"That interest," says Lynn Turner, former chief accountant of the Securities and Exchange Commission, "just sucks the profit out of the company."

Fortunately, the geniuses at Bain who now run the place are there to help tell you whom to fire. And for the service it performs cutting your company's costs to help you pay off the massive debt that it, Bain, saddled your company with in the first place, Bain naturally charges a management fee, typically millions of dollars a year. So Tricycle Inc. now has two gigantic new burdens it never had before Bain Capital stepped into the picture: tens of millions in annual debt service, and millions more in "management fees." Since the initial acquisition of Tricycle Inc. was probably greased by promising the company's upper management lucrative bonuses, all that pain inevitably comes out of just one place: the benefits and payroll of the hourly workforce.

Once all that debt is added, one of two things can happen. The company can fire workers and slash benefits to pay off all its new obligations to Goldman Sachs and Bain, leaving it ripe to be resold by Bain at a huge profit. Or it can go bankrupt – this happens after about seven percent of all private equity buyouts – leaving behind one or more shuttered factory towns. Either way, Bain wins. By power-sucking cash value from even the most rapidly dying firms, private equity raiders like Bain almost always get their cash out before a target goes belly up.
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Jesus Christ, how is this shit even allowed?
 
J

Jooney

Member
God bless Joe Biden

GREEN BAY, Wis. — Wading into Paul Ryan territory, Vice President Joe Biden delivered a blistering critique of the GOP vice presidential nominee’s Medicare proposal and warned that the Republican ticket would turn the health care system for seniors into “Vouchercare.”

As he campaigned in Ryan’s home state of Wisconsin on Sunday, Biden hammered Ryan and Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney for endorsing a Medicare proposal that would give seniors subsidies to purchase private health care plans. Biden, echoing a common Democratic attack, accused Republicans of wanting to “end the guarantee of Medicare.”

“Ladies and gentleman, it’s just that simple: We are for Medicare; they are for Vouchercare,” Biden told the shoulder-to-shoulder crowd of about 1,000 at the National Railroad Museum in Green Bay.

In his criticisms, Biden evoked his mother, Catherine, who campaigned with him in 2008 and died two years later at the age of 92. (At Sunday’s rally, Biden misspoke, saying his mother died at 93.)

“My mom was a smart woman,” he said. “But, my mom, I can’t picture handing her a voucher at age 80 and saying — you go out in the insurance market and you figure out what’s best for you.”
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Dems need to hammer home the bold part. The idea that (a) the elderly would prefer "choice" in their healthcare rather than defined benefits, and (b) that private insurance companies would want to insure 80 year olds, is ridiculous.
 
J

Jooney

Member
Matthew Gallant said:
I mean, that alone would erase all the telling guys in wheelchairs to stand up and whatnot. But America's Awesome Grandpa Joe Biden has MORE. One of Obama's best calls. I am such a fan.
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I don't know if he coined "vouchercare", but if so, fantastic. All the dem surrogates need to get on the same page and hammer that term into the medicare lexicon.
 
R

RustyNails

Member
Why is media saying Democrats are struggling to answer the question "Are you better off?" All the Democrats so far have said a resounding YES, but with lots of improvements still needed. Still CNN is acting like this is a bodyslam of Democrats by Ryanomney.
 
P

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
Matthew Gallant said:
I mean, that alone would erase all the telling guys in wheelchairs to stand up and whatnot. But America's Awesome Grandpa Joe Biden has MORE. One of Obama's best calls. I am such a fan.
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Agreed. He's obviously had some unfortunate gaffes, but none that revealed something we didn't know about him, like he's really some corporate zombie nazi, or an out-of-touch zombie former-POW veteran with questionable temperament, or a country bumpkin bomb thrower that embarrasses even the most brazen propagandists, or a religious zealot accidentally revealing that he doesn't believe rape really ever happens.

Nope. He just says embarrassing shit once in a while that he doesn't really mean -- unlike a lot of other idiots.
 
W

worldrunover

Member
That was a remarkably scary article by Taibbi. The one thing I would disagree with is how the private equity model implemented by Romney would be able to be applied to a nation. I don't quite see the connection there, but I think the morals and values of what Romney achieved at Bain should be reason enough to disqualify him in the American peoples' eyes.

RustyNails said:
Why is media saying Democrats are struggling to answer the question "Are you better off?" All the Democrats so far have said a resounding YES, but with lots of improvements still needed. Still CNN is acting like this is a bodyslam of Democrats by Ryanomney.
Click to expand...

Obama has been very scarce in highlighting his achievements. He's been even LESS forthcoming about what he would do in the next 4 years. I have literally heard nothing about what he wants to do next, other than raise taxes by 3% on rich people. I pay pretty close attention, too.

Maybe this first part of the campaign was all about defining Romney, and that's fine. But the man should really start A) touting his achievements and B) discussing his next course of action if he gets reelected.
 
J

Jooney

Member
RustyNails said:
Why is media saying Democrats are struggling to answer the question "Are you better off?" All the Democrats so far have said a resounding YES, but with lots of improvements still needed. Still CNN is acting like this is a bodyslam of Democrats by Ryanomney.
Click to expand...

Plouffe was on ABC This Week and he didn't give the most convincing answer when George pressed him on this question. Same with Rahm on MTP.

Their don't start their answer off with the resounding yes you alluded to; their instead start their spiel about inheriting the worse ecomonic situation since the great depression, etc. In other words, they don't have the crunchy soundbite that captures how people are better off and the country is heading in the right direction.
 
W

worldrunover

Member
Jooney said:
Plouffe was on ABC This Week and he didn't give the most convincing answer when George pressed him on this question. Same with Rahm on MTP.

Their don't start their answer off with the resounding yes you alluded to; their instead start their spiel about inheriting the worse ecomonic situation since the great depression, etc. In other words, they don't have the crunchy soundbite that captures how people are better off and the country is heading in the right direction.
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They are probably a little gun shy after Obama got hammered a few months ago for saying the private sector is doing fine. I think they should tout the millions of jobs that have been created in the past 3 1/2 years and note how all of those people are doing better than four years ago.
 
J

jamesinclair

Banned
Jooney said:
God bless Joe Biden



Dems need to hammer home the bold part. The idea that (a) the elderly would prefer "choice" in their healthcare rather than defined benefits, and (b) that private insurance companies would want to insure 80 year olds, is ridiculous.
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Isn't the problem that it's the insurance company, not the senior with the choice?

Most would choose not to cover them
 
J

Jooney

Member
worldrunover said:
They are probably a little gun shy after Obama got hammered a few months ago for saying the private sector is doing fine. I think they should tout the millions of jobs that have been created in the past 3 1/2 years and note how all of those people are doing better than four years ago.
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I agree - and this is the dem challenge. Packaging up their wins in a neat way that can be delivered without equivocation to the electorate. Otherwise the GOP talking point of "Obama cannot run on this record" will stick and people will believe it.
 
T

Tim-E

Member
Chuck Todd just said that Romney's camp may be quietly giving up on Ohio. He then showed the map that Romney would have to get to win without Ohio, and He basically has to win every other swing state to win, which I don't see happening.
 
B

Black Republican

Member
Tim-E said:
Chuck Todd just said that Romney's camp may be quietly giving up on Ohio. He then showed the map that Romney would have to get to win without Ohio, and He basically has to win every other swing state to win, which I don't see happening.
Click to expand...

no way.

i hope they realize they wont win that way......nope not buying it. But if they are:

*insertyouarealreadydeadgif
 
W

worldrunover

Member
Tim-E said:
Chuck Todd just said that Romney's camp may be quietly giving up on Ohio. He then showed the map that Romney would have to get to win without Ohio, and He basically has to win every other swing state to win, which I don't see happening.
Click to expand...

I don't understand - if there is so much more money in politics this cycle, why would he have to give up on any state? And why would it makes sense to give up in OHIO, where if he loses it his path becomes that much harder?

He would have to pick off Wisconsin if he was to give up on Ohio. Somehow I feel like Ohio would be an easier get than Wisconsin. If you figure Obama has Michigan, Colorado and Pennsylvania (and Wisconsin), then Ohio would put him over 270 without the need of Virginia, Florida, Nevada, N. Carolina, or Iowa. Makes no sense.
 
Q

Qazaq

Banned
Tim-E said:
Chuck Todd just said that Romney's camp may be quietly giving up on Ohio. He then showed the map that Romney would have to get to win without Ohio, and He basically has to win every other swing state to win, which I don't see happening.
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Can you give more detail? When/where did he say this? And what did he exactly say?
 
C

Cheebo

Banned
Tim-E said:
Chuck Todd just said that Romney's camp may be quietly giving up on Ohio. He then showed the map that Romney would have to get to win without Ohio, and He basically has to win every other swing state to win, which I don't see happening.
Click to expand...

Just as in today? Because I remember when he said that, it was over a week ago I believe. I didn't know he was still proclaiming it post-Convention.
 
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