Support NeoGAF

[Aaron Strife]

The fact everyone buys into PD's act is hilarious. He is as pro-Obama as anybody.

I get it, he makes predictions that go against the grain because in the case that he's actually right he'll get to brag about it for all eternity. I bet he's already written the Romney victory post and revises it periodically with quotes from everyone saying he's wrong.

I understand, do you know how badly I wanted Feingold to win just to post "i told you so" over and over?

 

[GhaleonEB]

Obama winning re-election at 74.8% at 538. Dude will be at 80% a week from now.

Only if Obama gets a larger than normal convention bounce. Just as Obama's odds are going up with a weak Romney bounce, his will go down if there's not a strong one for him. Two weeks from now the convention noise will have washed through the polling data and the model.

...and we'll be back to ~70%+ for Obama. Oh lord.

 

[eznark]

I understand, do you know how badly I wanted Feingold to win just to post "i told you so" over and over?

It's a lot of fun, so please keep predicting Wisconsin elections.

 

[daedalius]

Can't believe they are still running with this 'you didn't build that' meme.

Way to take shit out of context. Meat for the base indeed. Anyone who actually listens to the quote in its entirety can easily tell what Obama was trying to say.

 

[Kosmo]

The only thing worth watching at the DNC will be Clinton's speech. He will probably toe the party line, but I would find it hilarious if he just went scorched Earth and ruined Obama.

I was watching some old DNC highlights and never knew that when Clinton gave his speech in 1988 he was booed for going on so long and finally got a round of applause when he said "In closing...." It was pretty funny.

Can't believe they are still running with this 'you didn't build that' meme.

Way to take shit out of context. Meat for the base indeed. Anyone who actually listens to the quote in its entirety can easily tell what Obama was trying to say.

Yep, that people that build roads and punch in 9-5 every day also work hard and deserve just as much as someone who puts in 18 hour days getting a business up and running. In other words "We all work hard, so quit acting like running a business is more work than laying concrete."

 

[Suikoguy]

I get it, he makes predictions that go against the grain because in the case that he's actually right he'll get to brag about it for all eternity. I bet he's already written the Romney victory post and revises it periodically with quotes from everyone saying he's wrong.

I understand, do you know how badly I wanted Feingold to win just to post "i told you so" over and over?

I wonder how much of his love for Hillary is still an act.
The giving up 5 years of his life for Hillary was really high on the creepy scale.

 

[gcubed]

i see Ryan is taking the double down approach on his stupidity. Bravo

"What they are trying to suggest is that I said Barack Obama was responsible for the plant that shut down in Janesville. That's not what I was saying. Read the speech," Ryan said on NBC.

Ryan continued Tuesday, "What I was saying is the president ought to be held to account for broken promises. After the plant was shut down he said he would lead efforts to restart the plant. It's still idle."

 

[Cheebo]

I get it, he makes predictions that go against the grain because in the case that he's actually right he'll get to brag about it for all eternity. I bet he's already written the Romney victory post and revises it periodically with quotes from everyone saying he's wrong.

I understand, do you know how badly I wanted Feingold to win just to post "i told you so" over and over?

I think you read into it more than PD puts effort into it.

 

[daedalius]

Yep, that people that build roads and punch in 9-5 every day also work hard and deserve just as much as someone who puts in 18 hour days getting a business up and running. In other words "We all work hard, so quit acting like running a business is more work than laying concrete."

Laborers already get paid (substantially) less than our illustrious 'job creators', so now we need to shit on the 'difficulty' of said job as well? Everyone needs to be a job creator and start a business, obviously.

 

[Aaron Strife]

It's a lot of fun, so please keep predicting Wisconsin elections.

Thompson by 5

Spoiler

trying a sort of reverse psychology thing here

I think you read into it more than PD puts effort into it.

It's all in good fun

 

[sc0la]

You can still feel good about voting for an Eisenhower Republican, even if he's black and he has a D next to his name on the ballot.

I like to troll Nobama republicans by asking them why they hate the best moderate conservative president we have had since *insert_president of choice*

 

[Dude Abides]

Last week Holder announced that the United States of America is a country where government officials can torture with impunity.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/daphne-eviatar/no-cia-prosecutions-the-c_b_1846357.html

Despicable.

 

[RustyNails]

Last week Holder announced that the United States of America is a country where government officials can torture with impunity.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/daphne-eviatar/no-cia-prosecutions-the-c_b_1846357.html

Despicable.

Eric Holder is one of my least favorite Obama appointees, after Larry Summers and that Jeff Immelt. Holder especially sucks because he's in a public office.

 

[Dude Abides]

Eric Holder is one of my least favorite Obama appointees, after Larry Summers and that Jeff Immelt. Holder especially sucks because he's in a public office.

I'm sure Obama made the ultimate call on this.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Last week Holder announced that the United States of America is a country where government officials can torture with impunity.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/daphne-eviatar/no-cia-prosecutions-the-c_b_1846357.html

Despicable.

Eric "Fast and the Furious" Holder, are you really surprised? This is a guy who called for brainwashing people once.

I'm sure Obama made the ultimate call on this.

Just like he did with Fast and The Furious.

 

[Aaron Strife]

Last week Holder announced that the United States of America is a country where government officials can torture with impunity.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/daphne-eviatar/no-cia-prosecutions-the-c_b_1846357.html

Despicable.

Something he's not really responsible for and has been dealing with (Fast & Furious) = impeach his ass!

Something genuinely horrible = I can agree with that.

GOP logic

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Something he's not really responsible for and has been dealing with (Fast & Furious) = impeach his ass!

Uh he was.

 

[Tim-E]

Only if Obama gets a larger than normal convention bounce. Just as Obama's odds are going up with a weak Romney bounce, his will go down if there's not a strong one for him. Two weeks from now the convention noise will have washed through the polling data and the model.

...and we'll be back to ~70%+ for Obama. Oh lord.

It's over, guys. Get diablos in here.

 

[Dude Abides]

Eric "Fast and the Furious" Holder, are you really surprised? This is a guy who called for brainwashing people once.


Just like he did with Fast and The Furious.

I'm surprised you think it was torture.

 

[CharlieDigital]

Am I the only one that sees nothing wrong with F&F or "gunwalking" in general?

(Leaving all other facts and disputes about the details of the program and if it actually happened with Holder's knowledge or not)

The assumption is that the individuals who get their hands on these guns wouldn't have otherwise found another way to get firearms of similar levels of lethality.

 

[Tim-E]

Am I the only one that sees nothing wrong with F&F or "gunwalking" in general?

The assumption is that the individuals who get their hands on these guns wouldn't have otherwise found another way to get firearms of similar levels of lethality.

Don't you see, man?! It was all a scheme for Nobummer to give guns to bad people and bring gun control into the conversation. A democrat can't be in office without some conspiracy theories about gubment takin' mah guns coming up.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Don't you see, man?! It was all a scheme for Nobummer to give guns to bad people and bring gun control into the conversation. A democrat can't be in office without some conspiracy theories about gubment takin' mah guns coming up.

Its sad you excuse such behavior just because it's Obama.

 

[Kosmo]

Am I the only one that sees nothing wrong with F&F or "gunwalking" in general?

(Leaving all other facts and disputes about the details of the program and if it actually happened with Holder's knowledge or not)

The assumption is that the individuals who get their hands on these guns wouldn't have otherwise found another way to get firearms of similar levels of lethality.

So our government should be enabling all sorts of crime since those who would perpetrate the crimes will find a way to carry them out anyway?

Tha fuck? This dude needs to be run out of town already.

Talk to his boss.

 

[RDreamer]

lol, Republicans are really critiquing a sale on Obama stuff now?

I thought these people knew how to run a business?

 

[CharlieDigital]

Its sad you excuse such behavior just because it's Obama.

Can you step back from the he-said, she-said, who's side are you on type of argument here?

I honestly cannot understand the outrage over this program not to mention its predecessor was implemented under the Bush administration.

I haven't followed this topic much because it doesn't strike me as an issue at all, but from the description of the operation:

The tactic of letting guns walk, rather than interdicting them and arresting the buyers, led to controversy within the ATF

I am surprised that Conservatives are all up in arms over this given that the implication is that the government should seize guns (lawfully so) from private owner/dealers. How can you be for more lax gun ownership laws, for less government intrusion into private affairs, and then be upset over government agencies letting guns walk? By all accounts, they should be cheering Holder for upholding the second amendment.

So our government should be enabling all sorts of crime since those who would perpetrate the crimes will find a way to carry them out anyway?

You clearly lack any sense of reading comprehension or independent thought and critical thinking.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

So our government should be enabling all sorts of crime since those who would perpetrate the crimes will find a way to carry them out anyway?

What are your thoughts on gun control?

 

[Dude Abides]

Talk to his boss.

Do you agree with Manos that the United States ran a torture program?

 

[Kosmo]

Well, since had so much fun discussing Republican lies the last week, let's talk about this from the DNC website:

http://spectator.org/archives/2012/09/04/the-dncs-bold-lies

Lie Number One: Check the "Our History" section, found here of the DNC's website. See it? The history section -- now written to reflect the history of the Obama administration -- begins with this breathtakingly bold lie:

​

For more than 200 years, our party has led the fight for civil rights…..

Lie Number Two: Then check here to see the DNC's "Issues" section on civil rights. That section begins with a second bold lie. This one:

​

Democrats have a long and proud history of defending Civil Rights and expanding opportunity for all Americans.

Specifically, neither the new history and issues sections of the Obama-controlled, Wasserman-Schultz-run DNC website, ever whispers a hint that the Democrats:

· Supported slavery in 6 platforms from 1840-1860.

· Opposed the 13th, 14th and 15th amendments to the Constitution that successively wiped out slavery and gave both legal rights and voting rights to black Americans.

· Supported segregation actively or by silence in 20 platforms from 1868-1948.

· Opposed anti-lynching laws, specifically supported by the GOP in four platforms between 1912 and 1928.

· Opposed the GOP-sponsored Civil Rights Acts of 1866, which focused on legal equality for blacks.

· Opposed the GOP on giving voting rights to blacks in the District of Columbia in 1867. The legislation was passed over the Democrats' objection.

· Nominated an 1868 presidential ticket of New York Governor Horatio Seymour and ex-Missouri Congressman Francis Blair. The Democrats pledged they would declare the Civil Rights laws passed by the GOP "null and void" and would refuse to enforce them. They lost to Ulysses Grant.

· Opposed the Enforcement Acts, three laws passed by the GOP between 1870 and 1871 targeting the rise of the Ku Klux Klan and making it a federal crime to block the right of blacks to vote, hold office, serve on juries and have equal protection of the laws with whites.

· Opposed the GOP Civil Rights Act of 1875, which prohibited discrimination of blacks in public accommodations.

· Used the Ku Klux Klan as what Columbia University historian Eric Foner calls "a military force serving the interests of the Democratic Party." Nor is there reference to University of North Carolina historian Allen Trelease's description of the Klan as the "terrorist arm of the Democratic Party." Nor is there mention of the infamous 1924 Democratic Convention -- the "Klanbake" as it is known to history because hundreds of the delegates were Klan members. The Klan-written platform mixed the traditional Democratic message of progressivism and racism in the Klan-written platform.

· Repealed the Civil Rights laws enacted by GOP Congresses and presidents, already damaged by the Supreme Court. When Democrats gained control of both Congress and the White House in 1892, the Democrats' President Grover Cleveland signed the repeal on February 8, 1894.

And Obama's speech probably being moved so it doesn't look like a Jacksonville Jaguars game:

Democratic convention sources have indicated that the ‘contingency plan’ is at an advanced stage and that a move to the stadium appears certain.
‘It looks like a done deal to me,’ said one convention worker. ‘The decision’s apparently been taken and it’s just a matter of spinning it as being forced on us by the weather.’

 

[CHEEZMO™]

Lincoln was a Republican so the GOP can't be racist

 

[Dude Abides]

Well, since had so much fun discussing Republican lies the last week, let's talk about this from the DNC website:

http://spectator.org/archives/2012/09/04/the-dncs-bold-lies

Agreed. The DNC should talk more about how the party repudiated its racist southern roots and let the Republicans have those voters.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Can you step back from the he-said, she-said, who's side are you on type of argument here?

I honestly cannot understand the outrage over this program not to mention its predecessor was implemented under the Bush administration.

I haven't followed this topic much because it doesn't strike me as an issue at all, but from the description of the operation:

Expect only a few guns went missing during the Bush Administration and it's why it was stopped. Lots went missing during Obama tenure, including those turning up at dozens of murders include the killing of a US Border Guard. That's the massive big difference.

I am surprised that Conservatives are all up in arms over this given that the implication is that the government should seize guns (lawfully so) from private owner/dealers. How can you be for more lax gun ownership laws, for less government intrusion into private affairs, and then be upset over government agencies letting guns walk? By all accounts, they should be cheering Holder for upholding the second amendment.

You mean when the government told dealers to complete sales they felt were wrong and straw purchases? They allowed the arming of drug cartels by encouraging and forcing sales that would have never occured in the first place and lost all track of what the hell was going on.

 

[Marvie_3]

The Democrats supported slavery in 1840? Looks like I've voting for Romney now!

 

[Kosmo]

*facepalm*

Edit:
Just to save people from reading this drivel, it's the standard "ZOMG Dems started the KKK" horseshit.

...and claiming they have a sterling history (over 200 years) of supporting civil rights.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

...and claiming they have a sterling history (over 200 years) of supporting civil rights.

Shit, you're right. Guess I should vote for those guys pushing to repeal the CRA and want voting rights restricted on Black people instead.

Damn you LIEberals!! Now I see who the true racists are!

 

[Black Republican]

Virgil Goode just made the ballot in VA. He's…in the Constitution Party. There goes Mittens chance for VA.

and just from PPP:

On our last VA poll we found Virgil Goode at 4%- his presence took Obama from a 50-45 lead to a 50-42 one:

gop still can knock him off the ballot though

 

[Stinkles]

Expect only a few guns went missing during the Bush Administration and it's why it was stopped. Lots went missing during Obama tenure, including those turning up at dozens of murders include the killing of a US Border Guard. That's the massive big difference.




You mean when the government told dealers to complete sales they felt were wrong and straw purchases? They allowed the arming of drug cartels by encouraging and forcing sales that would have never occured in the first place and lost all track of what the hell was going on.

So obviously the whole program was horseshit, but I have never met a gun advocate who could, ina sterile conversation, state that he would LIKE the government to prevent him from selling legal weapons, legally, in any quantity, to whomever legally showed up to buy them. Set aside for a moment the absurd notion that the guy walking in was an M13 gangster with a tattoooed neck, and imagine it's an internet buyer who wants 5000 rounds and 20 M16s. His name is Mister SMith and it all checks out online. What's the criteria for suspicious or illegal say, from the NRA's philosophical perspective.

I am not trying to argue - just curious about where this fits in the NRA perspective.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Latino Group Projects 26 Percent Turnout Boost In 2012

CHARLOTTE -- Leaders of the National Association of Latino Elected and Appointed Officials said Tuesday they expect a big bump in Latino turnout in 2012 versus 2008.

Arturo Vargas, NALEO executive director, told a group gathered here he expects 12.2 million Latino voters will cast ballots in November, a 26 percent jump from 2008. Latino adovcates and political observers have said the Latino vote will be one of the keys to victory in the presidential race, and current polling shows President Obama with a huge lead among Latinos.

Despite the projected jump in turnout, Vargas said many eligible Latino voters will stay home. He projected 23 million Latinos will be eligible to vote in November though just about half of them will.

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/latino-group-projects-26-turnout-boost-in-2012

 

[CharlieDigital]

Expect only a few guns went missing during the Bush Administration and it's why it was stopped. Lots went missing during Obama tenure, including those turning up at dozens of murders include the killing of a US Border Guard. That's the massive big difference.

Again, let me ask you this: would the individuals who ended up in possession of these weapons have ended up with weapons of similar lethality one way or another?

I wager the answer is "yes". If you come to this conclusion, then it really doesn't matter where the guns came from because the individuals in possession of the guns would have had a firearm of some sort one way or another.

Then the next conclusion I draw from this is that at the least, information was able to be extracted by tracing the gun from the point-of-sale to the point-of-use, which I can understand as a reasonable objective for any government agency tasked with understanding and thwarting the arms trading that occurs along the border.

You mean when the government told dealers to complete sales they felt were wrong and straw purchases? They allowed the arming of drug cartels by encouraging and forcing sales that would have never occured in the first place and lost all track of what the hell was going on.

It's one thing to make this argument from a reality where there is no or very little arms trade between the border with buyers from Central and South America being supplied heavily by private US arms dealers. Then you could say the government is in the wrong for supplying cartels and criminals.

But here in actual reality (where I live), weapons trade from the US to Mexico and South America is already a largely established enterprise. If you understand this, then you understand that it is our loose, fragmented, and lax gun ownership laws that are responsible for nearly 100% of the illicit North-South gun trade and would certainly agree that we need more strict gun control and gun ownership laws dictated and enforced at the federal level, amirite?

EDIT: This NPR story was one of the best I've heard on the topic: http://www.npr.org/2011/01/05/132652351/tracking-gun-dealers-linked-to-mexican-violence

"We're the closest country, it's easy to get guns, it's not difficult to cross the borders with the guns when you get them, and there's very little stopping gun runners from doing that," he tells Fresh Air's Terry Gross. "The efforts by the United States and Mexican authorities have not really been a very strong deterrent in stopping the flow of guns south of the border."

Part of the problem, Grimaldi says, is straw-purchasing: when legal buyers purchase guns on behalf of illegal buyers, who remain largely untraceable.

"What is happening is dozens if not hundreds of people are going into gun stores along the border, buying guns for this trafficking and then taking them across the border," Grimaldi explains. "Those straw purchases really put the gun stores in the front lines of defending or preventing this flow of guns to Mexico."

But which U.S. dealers sell guns taken from Mexican crime scenes remains largely unknown. Though the information used to be freely available to anyone who filed a Freedom of Information Act request, the 2003 Tiahrt Amendment passed by Congress prohibits the ATF from releasing gun tracing data.

"The gun lobby — the National Rifle Assocation and gun manufacturers — went to Congress and asked them to [make gun tracing] off-limits," Grimaldi says. "It basically shut down any news stories that had been published in the past exposing where the guns were coming from — showing which stores tended to be the ones that criminals went to buy their guns. It [also] took the focus off of those stores that were engaged either knowingly or unwittingly in gun trafficking to criminals."​

And here is the killer:

But Grimaldi and other Washington Post reporters managed to break the secrecy surrounding U.S. gun dealers. In an article published in December, they revealed which 12 stores sold the most guns that eventually ended up on the streets of Mexico.

"We decided to find out which stores were selling the guns that ended up in Mexico," he says. "In many cases, the gun dealers themselves said they didn't realize they were on the top 12 list, and that's because the ATF was prohibited from telling them that. We've now told them that, and it might mean that they'll be more careful in terms of who they'll make sales to — if someone walks in and asks for 14 AK-47s, they might ask a few more questions than they ordinarily would."​

Imagine if the ATF, under Obama, raids these 12 stores, seizes their weapons, and arrests the owners for participating in illicit trade of arms. Because clearly, that is the right thing to do, right? It's already known that these 12 dealers are the source of most of the weapons that end up in Mexico -- we should just shut 'em down right now and seize their guns and implement more strict laws and regulations with regards to the purchase, ownership, and transfer of firearms, right?

Because I fully agree with this; you are basically agreeing that we need more gun control.

 

[Suikoguy]

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/latino-group-projects-26-turnout-boost-in-2012

If true, well... is anything going right for Romney?

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

So obviously the whole program was horseshit, but I have never met a gun advocate who could, ina sterile conversation, state that he would LIKE the government to prevent him from selling legal weapons, legally, in any quantity, to whomever legally showed up to buy them. Set aside for a moment the absurd notion that the guy walking in was an M13 gangster with a tattoooed neck, and imagine it's an internet buyer who wants 5000 rounds and 20 M16s. His name is Mister SMith and it all checks out online. What's the criteria for suspicious or illegal say, from the NRA's philosophical perspective.

I am not trying to argue - just curious about where this fits in the NRA perspective.

He needs an FFL to receive and transfer the guns. Besides that The problem was since pretty much all of the sales were straw purchases and illegal to begin with.

 

[Lambtron]

The Fast & Furious crap is bad, for sure, but it's child's play compared to the number of people who have been murdered and tortured under Obama's watch. Unfortunately, that's something the GOP is totally okay with and would likely continue. I love that probably the most disgusting thing of Obama's presidency would almost 100% be continued or escalated by his opponent. What an awesome choice we get.

Spoiler

Obviously Romney has pledged support for a lot of things I find completely dispicable with regards to national policies, so I think he's clearly a worse choice than Obama. However, I can't really vote for Obama in good conscience given all the shit he's done. I love our terrible two party system! The illusion of choice isn't really even there anymore.

 

[Angry Fork]

...and claiming they have a sterling history (over 200 years) of supporting civil rights.

Do you live up to your tag on purpose or are you a real person? Like do you think this way in real life? You know dems/republicans were pretty much in opposite places in olden days compared to now.

 

[eznark]

it's child's play compared to the number of people who have been murdered and tortured under Obama's watch. Unfortunately, that's something the GOP is totally okay with and would likely continue. I love that probably the most disgusting thing of Obama's presidency would almost 100% be continued or escalated by his opponent. What an awesome choice we get.

I always liked you.

 

[Stinkles]

He needs an FFL to receive and transfer the guns. Besides that The problem was since pretty much all of the sales were straw purchases and illegal to begin with.

We KNOW they were illegal - I am asking, because the NRA in particular is zealous about removing regulation, not enforcing existing ones. They want those gone. So it's a purely philosophical question, not a technical one. Does the NRA want the government authorizing or curating bulk weapon purchases?

 

[AlteredBeast]

If true, well... is anything going right for Romney?

Well, when you buy a large segment of the population's votes, of course they are going to turn out.

 

[Black Republican]

2 months from now i'll come back to this post and see if i was right:


http://www.270towin.com/2012_election_predictions.php?mapid=vKJ

Obama :333
Romney : 205

im gonna keep it like this

 

[Marvie_3]

2 months from now i'll come back to this post and see if i was right:


http://www.270towin.com/2012_election_predictions.php?mapid=vKJ

Obama :333
Romney : 205

im gonna keep it like this

Exactly what I've been thinking the final map will look like.

 

[DeathbyVolcano]

I like how Kosmo conveniently forgets about the entire Civil Rights Act.

edit: Also despite Florida being lean Obama at the moment I'm not entirely convinced Obama will snag it. I have to little faith in that state, and panhandle Florida is pretty shitty.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

We KNOW they were illegal - I am asking, because the NRA in particular is zealous about removing regulation, not enforcing existing ones. They want those gone. So it's a purely philosophical question, not a technical one. Does the NRA want the government authorizing or curating bulk weapon purchases?

Except the NRA has never commented about wanting to remove laws relating to straw purchases. They have often said that the existing laws should be enforced and not make new ones. They supported the Don't Lie for The Other Guy Campaign

 

[DeathbyVolcano]

Hey guys, guns.

GUNS

Hey let's talk about the DNC

NOPE FUCK YOU, GUNS

I'm a little sick of this Manos I'm sorry D: